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Easier Dan tests

BethuarBethuar
Mabinogi Rep: 890
Posts: 15
Member
edited October 17, 2017 in Feedback and Suggestions
I'm pretty sure every mabi player can agree that the dan 3 dan testing is almost impossible to do if you're lagging, let alone when the weapons can't keep up with the enemy.

I think an easy fix for this would be to change the points to a lower score so that everyone has a chance to get the dan 3 and not just the best players with the best connection speed. I would lag a spec and then be down 10 seconds because of it or there would be a delay and the enemies would start numlocking me. At least if the score was lower so a SS for the dan it would be less stressful for everyone and people would still keep trying but be happier of it being slightly easier than how it is now.

Comments

  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,795
    Posts: 315
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    For mag all they'd need to do is remove the fish wave and it would be perfectly doable even with 12k, I'm sure. There's just too much bs in a row, though. You basically spend 80% of the test skipping whatever you can with the most rng on rng on rng on lag action possible.
    Nerdylicious
  • LunarZeroLunarZero
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,135
    Posts: 66
    Member
    I did my Dan 1 test for Flame Burst, and without the bonus at the end, I wouldn't have even made A rank. I'd have to kill every other mob with a different skill to keep from dying. I like the redesign of it and making it not PvP and a struggle to even get the first one done. I'd like for it to be a challenge, but it does need balanced a bit and to not have the same generic amount of points for each skill.
  • EternityNekoEternityNeko
    Mabinogi Rep: 580
    Posts: 81
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    Considering the lag it's nearly impossible to pass the harder advancement tests. My suggestion make them easier!
    YangKoeteBehelitImaizumi
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,795
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    Yeeep, still want the points significantly increased on the mag test.Some of these dans are entirely too frustrating with their rng elements. I have my doubts they're ever gonna listen though.
    YangKoeteiMattxC
  • LeiliciaLeilicia
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,980
    Posts: 306
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    This topic again.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 29,130
    Posts: 3,986
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    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,170
    Posts: 1,942
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    Greta wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.

    That's a dumb reason, not a good reason.

    The "one successful test per day" and "needing 5 tests to get from rank 1 to dan 3" already makes the "within a week" impossible.
    NerdyliciousSherriYangKoeteHellkaizerKingEphyLadame
  • LeiliciaLeilicia
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,980
    Posts: 306
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    I get the lag being an issue, but people have figured out how to do the "tough skills to dan" already. There's skill needed, good latency (because the mabi gods hate us and curses us with bad lag. I blame Macha, mostly.) and persistence. I do recall a post somewhere explaining how they got to dan 3 on a particular skill. It was posted in town i think..not sure.
    YangKoete
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 29,130
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    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.

    That's a dumb reason, not a good reason.

    The "one successful test per day" and "needing 5 tests to get from rank 1 to dan 3" already makes the "within a week" impossible.

    Okay, didn't have enough time to calculate that. But definitely elitists/no-lifers could finish this content within month and then come to forums QQ'ing with claims like "There's nothing to do...", "Mabinogi is dead, Nexon doesn't add any new content". Makes me cringe every time when i see these claims.
    To be honest, i dropped Dan Test content after 2 weeks. Too tiring, makes you broke and also makes we want to quit Mabinogi, but i love this game too much so getting upset over one content like this is not worth it for me.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,170
    Posts: 1,942
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    Greta wrote: »
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.

    That's a dumb reason, not a good reason.

    The "one successful test per day" and "needing 5 tests to get from rank 1 to dan 3" already makes the "within a week" impossible.

    Okay, didn't have enough time to calculate that. But definitely elitists/no-lifers could finish this content within month and then come to forums QQ'ing with claims like "There's nothing to do...", "Mabinogi is dead, Nexon doesn't add any new content". Makes me cringe every time when i see these claims.
    To be honest, i dropped Dan Test content after 2 weeks. Too tiring, makes you broke and also makes we want to quit Mabinogi, but i love this game too much so getting upset over one content like this is not worth it for me.

    36 Advanceable skills.

    At 5 days from rank 1 to Dan 3, that's 180 days worth of content.
    Without failing tests.

    24 if that person had already gotten Dan 3 of all the previously Advanceable skills before this update. That's still 120 days worth of testing to do.
    Without fails.

    "Within a month" isn't even close. The LEAST would be 4 months.

    The fails don't add anything to this.
    And especially for some skills, the retraining is enough added time-sinkage.
    It's just needless aggravation.

    And besides, if testing made you want to quit so you dropped it, that's a problem!
    Could start by saying why it "is not worth it to me".
    That's what the Feedback and Suggestions section is for!
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 29,130
    Posts: 3,986
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    I guess that's just me, if i dislike something i just try to avoid encountering that again. This works in real life for me too. Got to agree that some skills has ridiculous requirements to Dan them and latency/lag doesn't help at all.
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,585
    Posts: 363
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    Aren't Dan tests supposed to be an achievement of skill meant to not only make you stronger, but show proof of your skill as a player and overall mastery of the game itself?

    Wouldn't making it easier defeat the purpose of that?

    If you want a dan test change that would actually mean something, I would say making certain magic test rules more clear, and lowering RNG issues in certain tests, mostly life skill tests.

    And no, you can't use "lag" as an excuse to say its too hard.
    Lag is not part of the test.
    Get off market channel and do tests on a much less laggy empty channel.

    Oh, and remember to actually have high stats prior to taking the test.
    Your actual stats change your stats in the test, and can be the clear difference of success or failure.

    This suggestion would hold more weight if nobody managed to get the dan 3 idles, but I have seen every dan 3 idle at least once.
    For some like magic and combat, multiple times.
    They are far from impossible, just get better.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,170
    Posts: 1,942
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    Nilrem wrote: »
    Aren't Dan tests supposed to be an achievement of skill meant to not only make you stronger, but show proof of your skill as a player and overall mastery of the game itself?

    Wouldn't making it easier defeat the purpose of that?

    If you want a dan test change that would actually mean something, I would say making certain magic test rules more clear, and lowering RNG issues in certain tests, mostly life skill tests.

    And no, you can't use "lag" as an excuse to say its too hard.
    Lag is not part of the test.
    Get off market channel and do tests on a much less laggy empty channel.

    Oh, and remember to actually have high stats prior to taking the test.
    Your actual stats change your stats in the test, and can be the clear difference of success or failure.

    This suggestion would hold more weight if nobody managed to get the dan 3 idles, but I have seen every dan 3 idle at least once.
    For some like magic and combat, multiple times.
    They are far from impossible, just get better.

    RNG for Life Skill Tests?
    I guess, it's hard to make the goal time when you have to sit through a crafting animation 30 times, because you randomly got asked to make more things than another possible option would have given you.
    And then the chance of failures.

    But that's also a problem with many other tests.
    It doesn't take skill to get crits for more points.
    Or for your archery shots to miss.
    Or for enemies to start spawned in awkward positions.
    Or for them to go into deadly, or ping, robbing you of what should have been a kill.

    And you can have lag be an excuse.
    This is an online game, dependent on connection speed and varied computer specs.
    You have to adjust for the bottom end of the spectrums.

    Getting Dan ranks, especially up to Dan 3, is less of a celebration of skill in most cases, and a celebration of luck.

    The tests would benefit from an increased time limit, or an increase in awarded points for actions, or both.
    Or even just an increase in the maximum number of training counts for getting A ranks (Dan 1 -> Dan 2) or A and S ranks (Dan 2 -> Dan 3), so you can still eventually rank up, albeit slower than someone else who was getting full marks the whole way.

    Or, if you wanted to "show your skill" they could add a high-score table for each individual Dan test for each rank if you really wanted to show off your skill at taking tests.
    NerdyliciousShouKImaizumi
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    There are definitely ways to reduce lag, mate, but there are limits. Trust me, if I could ditch this american server for a european one, I would. It's not by choice. @Iyasenu is right about the RNG elements as well. Guess why I complain about the mag dan test in every thread like this? Because it does suck. I've seen people achieve it, yes. There is definitely also skill involved. But in a few of these dan tests, it doesn't matter if you're skilled enough to know what to do if your luck is just outright awful.

    Test of skill, right? Let's not have luck be that much of a factor.
    IyasenuSherriNerdyliciousImaizumi
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,115
    Posts: 1,764
    Member
    Not to mention how annoying it is to rank up alchemy. Blinkers are totally unfair! They instant aggro and you can't do anything while they drain your HP!
    If I wanted to rage at a game, I would of bought CS:GO!!
    Nerdylicious
  • ZingermanZingerman
    Mabinogi Rep: 410
    Posts: 6
    Member
    I just completed Healing Dan 3 today. Even had to open a support ticket because my progress got reset after today's maintenance and I did not want to do that test a third time.

    If there was ever a test that was heavily based on luck it is Healing. The only skill involved here is knowing the secret of how to get the bonus points (healing under 20% HP) and skipping one buff to your ally (the opportunity buffs is also random), which still doesn't help much at all if the AIs do not behave the way you need them to. The ally either kills the enemy too quickly and deny you the required amount of points 90% of the time or does not do anywhere near enough damage for the remaining 10%.
    Nerdylicious
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,585
    Posts: 363
    Member
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    RNG for Life Skill Tests?
    I guess, it's hard to make the goal time when you have to sit through a crafting animation 30 times, because you randomly got asked to make more things than another possible option would have given you.
    And then the chance of failures.

    But that's also a problem with many other tests.
    It doesn't take skill to get crits for more points.
    Or for your archery shots to miss.
    Or for enemies to start spawned in awkward positions.
    Or for them to go into deadly, or ping, robbing you of what should have been a kill.

    That was sort of what I was talking about in my post but okay I guess.
    Crits can be influenced by stats from outside the test, although I can see why some would despise this.
    The day archery stops missing is the day Nexon stops releasing Gacha.
    Enemy spawning is one of the biggest actual points, honestly.
    I think everyone can agree fixed enemy spawns would lead to better runs.
    Deadly and Ping are annoying outside of Dans, don't know why you don't expect them in Dans.

    And to elaborate on my mention of magic test rules:
    You have to hit a crystal to summon enemies, but unless you carefully look at the bolt the crystal charged, you cannot tell which sprites will spawn.
    What I would want is for the crystals to be differently colored or labeled, or at least dimmed so it can be more clear of which to activate for the specific spell.
    Still hate healing dan though. I get they want to be cute and everything but a better test would have just been healing NPCs to full very fast.
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    And you can have lag be an excuse.
    This is an online game, dependent on connection speed and varied computer specs.
    You have to adjust for the bottom end of the spectrums.

    Just one issue with that.
    We don't get our own precious custom changes over here.
    We get what KR gets. And sometimes JP I guess but mostly KR.
    KR players don't deal with things like lag.
    So KR devs program and balance things around having little to no lag.
    Like I said, "Lag is not part of the test."
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Getting Dan ranks, especially up to Dan 3, is less of a celebration of skill in most cases, and a celebration of luck.

    So...just like most of everything else in the game?
    Life skills, crafting, enchants, drops, how bad server lag gets, etc?
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    The tests would benefit from an increased time limit, or an increase in awarded points for actions, or both.
    Or even just an increase in the maximum number of training counts for getting A ranks (Dan 1 -> Dan 2) or A and S ranks (Dan 2 -> Dan 3), so you can still eventually rank up, albeit slower than someone else who was getting full marks the whole way.

    Or, if you wanted to "show your skill" they could add a high-score table for each individual Dan test for each rank if you really wanted to show off your skill at taking tests.

    If anything more time in Dan 1 tests so you can properly learn and understand how certain tests work.
    If anything for the magic dan tests. Especially for the magic ones.
    I remember how frustrated I was until I learned the crystals summon a bolt to show what they summon.
    Something the game never tells you.

    Extra requirements would be nice, but not for Dan 3.
    Dan 3 still needs to be difficult to attain.
  • LhakrymaLhakryma
    Mabinogi Rep: 660
    Posts: 34
    Member
    The way it is right now it's NOT a test of skill, it's a test of luck. I did the firebolt dan 2 test like 5678567856 times and I never went over 8,5k, even then it was all LUCK because I had good rolls on crits, and the big sprites didn't spawn on top of me to insta lock me.

    Here are some suggestions:
    - Higher DMG-point conversion. If you double this, you will already have improved it enough, but I doubt this will ever happen.
    - Larger arena.
    - Lower aggro range/no multiaggro, with lower mob HP
    - More time, like 30% more time.
    - Allow AP train for it after you've finished the "pass the test" parts, make it ~3-5 AP per point, so you'd be looking at a 150-250 ap to level up the skill if you only passed the test.
    - Allow for it to be 100%-ed WITHOUT the "s" or "ss" part, albeit slower, for example, for dan 2, you either stick with 2 x s, or if you can't achieve that, 6 x pass the exam., 10 x pass the exam for dan 3. This would be the best choice since you at least know that your efforts, stress and nerves didn't literally go to s**t with nothing in return but just wasted money and opportunity.
    - Allow for 3-8 trials a day, instead of just 1, or allow for 3 trials per skill.

    Any of these I think would make it better and more accessible, though the last 3 options seem like the best way to go IMO. The way it is now, it's like a roulette, with really really REALLY bad prizes, and an astronomical cost (not talking about the gold).
    I haven't read one single good thing about the dan tests, all I read were complaints on how badly designed and unfair they are, so I think this is warranted :)
    Even though it probably won't reach the devs.

    Also PLEASE if your only argument against this is "I had to go through it when I did it, so other people should have to as well", PLEASE I beg of you, don't comment or vote in the poll.

    Thank you :)
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,170
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    I like the option of having the option to settle for lower score ranks for a slower advancement.

    It still rewards doing well, with a faster advancement, but doesn't lock it behind a skill/luck wall. (some of these tests, I swear!)
    That and it would make any Dan 1 A ranks or Dan 2 A/S ranks not so much dust in the wind.

    But, this thread should probably be in the Feedback section.
    TrythisVeylainelceCreamKokoroLadameImaizumi
  • TheOthicTheOthic
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    Yeah this belongs in feedback and suggestions .

    Also wasn't there a thread that was dedicated to tips and tricks about dan skills?