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Multi-clienters ruining/abusing events

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  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    edited April 6, 2018
    Xiokun wrote: »
    Pan wrote: »
    Account creation should require SSN.

    A social security number for making an account for a game? Please tell me you're being sarcastic... because if someone gets hacked and gets their hands on THAT, oof!!

    He's dead serious. o_o
    https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/6w3g30/faq_about_playingregistering_for_online_korean/

    From what I read, most Korean games and online services require a RRN to register (Korean version of SSN, also colloquially called KSSN) to comply with their Cyber Anti-Defamation laws, which forbid making anonymous comments.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    Finity wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Another person that thinks afking on an event is hard lmao

    I think afking on 100~200 accounts is pretty hard

    Its called multiclienting on one pc.
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Another person that thinks afking on an event is hard lmao

    I think afking on 100~200 accounts is pretty hard

    Its called multiclienting on one pc.

    Even if they are afking with 10 mabi open for approx 2 hour 30 min for 100 accounts that's gonna take whole day and night- although having 10 mabi open in one pc is impossible. Even if they could, having 10 mabi open 23 hours per day will destroy the botter's computer pretty fast.

  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Arjune wrote: »
    that's assuming everyone has cell phones... which I certainly don't
    If a MMO's target audience is rather casual free-to-players, I'd say it's "fairly likely" that the player base will have a functional cell phone number for verification. If I can be blunt, the year -is- 2018: it's rather safe to assume most people with a steady internet connection in America has some sort of text messaging phone.
    From what I read, most Korean games and online services require a RRN to register (Korean version of SSN, also colloquially called KSSN) to comply with their Cyber Anti-Defamation laws, which forbid making anonymous comments.
    From my memory, South Korea moved away from using KSSNs for game verification due to some other concerns with the practice. They moved to Korean cell numbers, I think?
    Finity wrote: »
    Even if they are afking with 10 mabi open for approx 2 hour 30 min for 100 accounts that's gonna take whole day and night- although having 10 mabi open in one pc is impossible. Even if they could, having 10 mabi open 23 hours per day will destroy the botter's computer pretty fast.
    So does that risk make it okay for cheaters to do this? I'm really confused on why you're bringing that up, especially since multiclienting requires heavy mods and nothing is stopping the abuser from just modding all visuals away so that the client uses minimal resources.
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    Arjune wrote: »
    that's assuming everyone has cell phones... which I certainly don't
    If a MMO's target audience is rather casual free-to-players, I'd say it's "fairly likely" that the player base will have a functional cell phone number for verification. If I can be blunt, the year -is- 2018: it's rather safe to assume most people with a steady internet connection in America has some sort of text messaging phone.

    But not everyone who plays Nexon NA is in America. We have our friends in Europe and Oceania. Would they have different rules for these players?
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    Arjune wrote: »
    that's assuming everyone has cell phones... which I certainly don't
    If a MMO's target audience is rather casual free-to-players, I'd say it's "fairly likely" that the player base will have a functional cell phone number for verification. If I can be blunt, the year -is- 2018: it's rather safe to assume most people with a steady internet connection in America has some sort of text messaging phone.

    But not everyone who plays Nexon NA is in America. We have our friends in Europe and Oceania. Would they have different rules for these players?
    International texting is a thing.
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Arjune wrote: »
    that's assuming everyone has cell phones... which I certainly don't
    If a MMO's target audience is rather casual free-to-players, I'd say it's "fairly likely" that the player base will have a functional cell phone number for verification. If I can be blunt, the year -is- 2018: it's rather safe to assume most people with a steady internet connection in America has some sort of text messaging phone.

    But not everyone who plays Nexon NA is in America. We have our friends in Europe and Oceania. Would they have different rules for these players?
    International texting is a thing.

    I wasn't saying that they don't have cell phones, but are there legal ramifications for a company officially collecting foreign cell phone numbers?
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    How do you have 100 instances of Mabinogi open on any one computer and not have the computer be utterly destroyed? Let us be real here.
    WolfandWolfFinitySherri
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    I wasn't saying that they don't have cell phones, but are there legal ramifications for a company officially collecting foreign cell phone numbers?
    I'm not versed in law, so I wouldn't know. I'm pretty sure that other companies have done it in the past, so I don't -think- there's anything preventing it other than safe storage and no misuse of the data?
    WolfandWolf
  • MirralChanMirralChan
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    People like me who don't want a cell phone nor want to get one would just quit then cause if a cellphone is req i would just leave thus dwindling the playerbase more.

    SherriYangKoete
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Buffalos wrote: »
    So does that risk make it okay for cheaters to do this? I'm really confused on why you're bringing that up, especially since multiclienting requires heavy mods and nothing is stopping the abuser from just modding all visuals away so that the client uses minimal resources.

    How do you have 100 instances of Mabinogi open on any one computer and not have the computer be utterly destroyed? Let us be real here.

    This question pretty much explains why am I bringing this up - I am asking how its done/is it even possible, instead of just explaining it by "botting and modding" because even with botting and modding, it just seems impossible.
    Even if you have every prop either disabled or minimized having 5~10 mabi open will destroy computer. Why would anyone risk their good computer(crappy/cheap computers can't multiclient, I have old laptop and it struggles with just having 1 mabi open) to have a chance to win a virtual wing that probably costs 200~300m in game- which is nothing compared to a good computer.

    + For SIN number and phone verification ideas
    The cost and effort to implement this, the risk of having it hacked just makes it not worth it. Additionally, people always find ways around it (use of family/friends phone/SIN number, fake phone number, impersonating others SIN number) so its not guaranteed that it will work.
    Also....
    This is how KSIN numbers are on sale for 60 cents each on Chinese websites
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Finity wrote: »
    Why would anyone risk their good computer(crappy/cheap computers can't multiclient, I have old laptop and it struggles with just having 1 mabi open) to have a chance to win a virtual wing that probably costs 200~300m in game- which is nothing compared to a good computer.
    to have a chance to win a virtual wing that probably costs 200~300m in game
    You answered your own question. There were also a number of platinum hammers, which are fairly useful to a number of people and worth farming when possible. Long story short, people who cheat are stupid in more ways than one.
    I also should add that some people have a -thing- for ruining stuff for others. Mabi has a history of people like that.

  • CrimsCrims
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    Yeah social security numbers are a big no no. Huge security risk and potentially life ruining. Plus you could only require that from players above age 18. Suddenly you have a bunch of alts with birthdays from the 2000's. Yeah no. lol.
  • TrythisTrythis
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    edited April 7, 2018
    @Buffalos I think they're referring want more in-depth explanation of it would work other than just modding/botting.

    2nd I think they're talking about even if it was possible what they were arguing against @Opalthira was that even if it was possible to stack over 100 instances of mabi into one PC that the task of keeping head count and track of the rewards wouldnt be an easy task as in it would be time consuming.

    I think @Finity was NOT condoning anything that they may be doing, your accusation that they thought it's okay for cheaters because of risk. I think they're just challenging possibility of either being able to have 100+ mabis open on one computer and/or the task of keeping an eye on all of them when things are said and done, nowhere they said it's OK for them to this.

    Breif edit: it all started because one person said it was easy to run 100 accs and another person challenged the easiness of that claim
    Finity
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Why would anyone risk their good computer(crappy/cheap computers can't multiclient, I have old laptop and it struggles with just having 1 mabi open) to have a chance to win a virtual wing that probably costs 200~300m in game- which is nothing compared to a good computer.
    to have a chance to win a virtual wing that probably costs 200~300m in game
    You answered your own question. There were also a number of platinum hammers, which are fairly useful to a number of people and worth farming when possible. Long story short, people who cheat are stupid in more ways than one.
    I also should add that some people have a -thing- for ruining stuff for others. Mabi has a history of people like that.
    Those plat hammers aren't even tradeable
    Are they guaranteed that they are going to win the wing? No.
    Are they guaranteed that they are going to blow up their computer? Yes.
    Would 200~300m get them a new computer? No.
    Trythis wrote: »
    @Buffalos I think they're referring want more in-depth explanation of it would work other than just modding/botting.

    2nd I think they're talking about even if it was possible what they were arguing against @Opalthira was that even if it was possible to stack over 100 instances of mabi into one PC that the task of keeping head count and track of the rewards wouldnt be an easy task as in it would be time consuming.

    I think @Finity was NOT condoning anything that they may be doing, your accusation that they thought it's okay for cheaters because of risk. I think they're just challenging possibility of either being able to have 100+ mabis open on one computer and/or the task of keeping an eye on all of them when things are said and done, nowhere they said it's OK for them to this.

    Breif edit: it all started because one person said it was easy to run 100 accs and another person challenged the easiness of that claim

    This is very correct




    Instead of making everything untradeable and punish people who wanna sell/buy event stuff(cuz not everyone get what they want) or missed event-although most event items are expireable and untradeable already
    Instead of requiring SIN verification and put everyone's personal information at risk
    Instead of requiring phone number and punish those who don't have phone
    Maybe Nexon can sort out players who have 100~200 accounts logged in with single IP and most of them are named eventalt001~200
    Idk. Just suggesting.
    ShouKTwelieSherri
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Finity wrote: »
    Maybe Nexon can sort out players who have 100~200 accounts logged in with single IP and most of them are named eventalt001~200....
    Idk. Just suggesting.
    A post on page one kinda hit this well on the head:
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    While I can't say it doesn't bother me to see "Player001", "Player002", "Player003", "Player004", "Player005", and "Player006" all doing something together; I do understand it's not all being done on a single machine. ~ Unless you want Nexon to limit us to one connection per household; this will never change.
    Amassing alts for events isn't new either. It's been happening since the game was first released, and they have taken steps to curb it, but those steps almost always lead to other problems (innocent people being banned for suspicion of things they were not guilty of). Too many holes.

    Everyone here wants a perfect solution that'll affect only the bad people, and that simply won't happen.
    They can go thru and ban every account with a "suspicious name", and in the process ban probably hundreds of accounts who just named their free race card characters face rolled characters because they knew they wouldn't play them.
    They could watch for multiple clients logging in enmass from single IPs, but then they'll hit family homes with casual players and entirely miss the abusers who are smart enough to change their IPs and run on VPNs.
    They can make account creation a lot more strict and require secondary verification, but then you'll have a slew of people rioting on forums for that being unreasonable.

    If you seriously want this to stop, you have to remove every single incentive for people to abuse the events with multiple accounts. This could be done with untradable items, but then people would never stop crying on forums. This could be done by making the events have no good rewards, but then people would never stop crying on forums. Or this could be done by making the events actually fair, but that'd require real effort on devCAT's part and let's face it that's not happening.

    Also:
    Finity wrote: »
    Would 200~300m get them a new computer? No.
    You'd be surprised by just how wrong that statement is. No matter what server you're on.
    Jazmyn
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Maybe Nexon can sort out players who have 100~200 accounts logged in with single IP and most of them are named eventalt001~200....
    Idk. Just suggesting.
    A post on page one kinda hit this well on the head:
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    While I can't say it doesn't bother me to see "Player001", "Player002", "Player003", "Player004", "Player005", and "Player006" all doing something together; I do understand it's not all being done on a single machine. ~ Unless you want Nexon to limit us to one connection per household; this will never change.
    Amassing alts for events isn't new either. It's been happening since the game was first released, and they have taken steps to curb it, but those steps almost always lead to other problems (innocent people being banned for suspicion of things they were not guilty of). Too many holes.
    I said hundreds of accounts on single IP. Not a few.

    Also:
    Finity wrote: »
    Would 200~300m get them a new computer? No.
    You'd be surprised by just how wrong that statement is. No matter what server you're on.
    Lol no. It can't. I did mention about it being decent~good computer that can multiclient.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Finity wrote: »
    I said hundreds of accounts on single IP. Not a few.
    But then they say "hey, if I don't want to get banned I should just use <10 clients!" Then we get into an endless cycle of how low can they go before literally everyone who's playing has to be banned as Nexon lowers their standards for "multi client abuse."
    Finity wrote:
    Lol no. It can't. I did mention about it being decent~good computer that can multiclient.
    You'd be able to replace the CPU or GPU easily, which is what would blow up if someone was stupid enough to launch a hundred clients.
  • KouyioueKouyioue
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    edited April 8, 2018
    blatantly obvious hyperbole aside, how many clients is "a hundred" ?

    Six?

    Eight?

    Eleven?

    Points aside, a registered nurse who dabbles in student-level HTML is not at all going to be running more alts VS. an MSDN troll with process handling experience on the same computer with only 8 gigs of ram and a quad core
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    I said hundreds of accounts on single IP. Not a few.
    But then they say "hey, if I don't want to get banned I should just use <10 clients!" Then we get into an endless cycle of how low can they go before literally everyone who's playing has to be banned as Nexon lowers their standards for "multi client abuse."

    Then its gonna limit how many alts that they can use. Since afk events takes fair enough amount of time.
    Also they could check which accounts had logged on a single IP, not how many were logged in at certain point of time
    Even if they do less than 10 at a time, it does not change fact that they are logging on bunch of accounts on a single ip as a total

    I don't like other ideas because they're asking to basically nerf event until they are not worth it or asking for something that's not going to happen.
    You're right about no matter what people are going to complain. I'd like botters to be banned. But if Nexon can't do that, I'm fine with how it is now-except for server wide limited prize. When they start to change things around and hurt normal players, there'll be more complaints than there are now.
    ShouK