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Multi-clienters ruining/abusing events

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  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    blatantly obvious hyperbole aside, how many clients is "a hundred" ?

    Six?

    Eight?
    The number of vanilla clients to realistically make an average computer slow down to freezing would probably be 3~5. To break it into submission? Who knows.
    But launching multiple clients can't be done in the same instance of OS without modifying the client significantly, so those guesses mean nothing.
    Finity wrote: »
    Then its gonna limit how many alts that they can use. Since afk events takes fair enough amount of time.
    Maybe all these suggestions are ruining events more than bots do, if devs take it serious- since all these people are suggesting are basically nerfing event until they are not worth it or asking for something that's not going to happen.
    Mayhaps the events shouldn't be structured like this to begin with, where if you want to get a good prize you either need to shell out a bunch of gold or use multiple accounts because the odds of you getting what you want are abysmal due to how low gacha rates are. But since that won't happen, the next best approach is either "nerfing" the event rewards or putting untradable tags on everything to make multiple account use entirely pointless.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    edited April 8, 2018
    Finity wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    I said hundreds of accounts on single IP. Not a few.
    But then they say "hey, if I don't want to get banned I should just use <10 clients!" Then we get into an endless cycle of how low can they go before literally everyone who's playing has to be banned as Nexon lowers their standards for "multi client abuse."

    Then its gonna limit how many alts that they can use. Since afk events takes fair enough amount of time.
    Also they could check which accounts had logged on a single IP, not how many were logged in at certain point of time
    Even if they do less than 10 at a time, it does not change fact that they are logging on bunch of accounts on a single ip as a total

    I don't like other ideas because they're asking to basically nerf event until they are not worth it or asking for something that's not going to happen.
    You're right about no matter what people are going to complain. I'd like botters to be banned. But if Nexon can't do that, I'm fine with how it is now-except for server wide limited prize. When they start to change things around and hurt normal players, there'll be more complaints than there are now.

    Regardless of what they do people are gonna exploit, Unless they become untradeable.
    To say otherwise just proves that you have no idea how determined people are in these kinds of games popular or otherwise.
    These items can make a single player from broke to end game... to say that they shouldnt be untradeable would be like logging on any other mmo to get full raid from pressing a "claim raid gear set". Its not challenging whats so ever. All you have to is log and afk for 3 hours at a time. Thats 100 rolls every three hours for 10 accounts.
    Putting this into account you can get 533 coins per day if you did this for 16 hours. Thats more than single person can get in an entire month let alone one day, and this event was around 30 days long. There were three weeks before the wings show up so if you did this every day you could a wooping 11,200 coins by the time those wings showed. Throw into the account that the servers started early and that the wings were gone before the server "start up time" and you got yourself no prizes for actual players. Not saying anyone did this but putting it in that perspective shows how generally unfair this event was. Literally all you had to do is afk for a weekend and have more coins than someone who farmed fairly for an entire month.
    Also who is to say that they don't have multiple pcs? I got three i can use that are more than capable of running a game old as mabi. Hell i ran Tera online with 500mb of ram and it requires 4 gbs of ram.

    At this point it just looks you are all making excuses for trying to sell events items when all we want is game breaking items to be untradeable and a fair chance at the items. Nowhere did we say we wanted to nerf the rewards in anyway (and if they did i missed it) cause making things untradeable that are worth 50+mil should have been a thing from the start and removes all the people from farming these events like this.

    Ps. Still waiting on that Unexploitable compromise that isnt making things untradeable. :)
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
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    edited April 7, 2018
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Regardless of what they do people are gonna exploit, Unless they become untradeable.
    To say otherwise just proves that you have no idea how determined people are in these kinds of games popular or otherwise.

    -snip math
    -snip rationale

    At this point it just looks you are all making excuses for trying to sell events items when all we want is game breaking items to be untradeable and a fair chance at the items. Nowhere did we say we wanted to nerf the rewards in anyway (and if they did i missed it) cause making things untradeable that are worth 50+mil should have been a thing from the start and removes all the people from farming these events like this.

    Ps. Still waiting on that Unexploitable compromise that isnt making things untradeable. :)

    May I ask that we try and keep the 1337 EDG3 out of the conversation, rather than have each group basically amount to circular logic?

    I don't want to spend hours picking apart people's arguments, and I think people would like to read that even less.

    Anyway, some options I had as an alternative;

    Ticking Quiz Bomb equivalent.
    Visual puzzle to obtain reward.
    Make all functional items of an event require a Master talent from three separate tabs (like combat, life, one other).
    Make all functional items expire, and DO NOT include an NX item to end expiration.
    Give tiered rewards (rather than a hodgepodge of different items in supposed increase in value).
    Until we're in the time period where everyone has electronic identifiers that allows them to interact with the world via unique DNA scanning, have some sort of lock on an account that requires the submission and answer of a unique riddle (don't think that there is anyone willing to come up with 'hundreds' of riddles that haven't every been used before), or use some other sort of intelligence-requiring, unique challenge.
    Make the rewards past ultra rare items and flood the streets with them.
    Just flood rewards in general, tbh.
    Require a forum account with 100+ posts (I realise that this is probably the worst suggestion).
    Require referrals from multiple other players to take part/collect better prizes in events. Any accounts that referred an account that got shut down due to being an alt will no longer be able to refer.
    Make Mabi mine NX in the background for players; utilize all resources available.
    Bloat the computer's RAM requirement (percentile based off of computer specs).
    Make the event a combat event.
    Make the event auto-kill any player AFK for more than two minutes, that does not have a referral/complete a puzzle.
    Make an account require a physical key in the form of a USB, requested by and delivered to an account. Have the key electronically reset if it ever leaves the PC.

    In general, make it not worth the time, or make the items very easily accessible, or make them niche.

    IDK man, people are arguing if it's unfair or how bad it is or if it matters or how other people's suggestions have holes, but no-one argues for the multi-clienters.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    "In general, make it not worth the time, or make the items very easily accessible, or make them niche."

    Thanks for agreeing that untradeable items are the way to go.
    Greta
  • TrythisTrythis
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    edited April 8, 2018
    @Opalthira making excuse and condoning is one thing but asking to provide evidence for claim is another. You can ask questions and still disapprove people's actions. Just because they wanted you to prove that 100-200 accs is easy per multiclienter doesn't mean that they think it's gives multiclienter the green light to cheat. You're making yourself seem like an SJW with this unneeded moral grand standing you're taking.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    Never supported multclienters in anyway just stated actual math showing how exploitable an event is.
    Trythis
  • TrythisTrythis
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    edited April 8, 2018
    @Opalthira I didn't mean you were supporting them but you're acusing others of supporting them with statements like "at this point you all are making excuses".

    Just like when at @Buffalos implied @Finity was siding with the multiclienters even though finity never said they did support what they were doing "So does that risk make it okay for cheaters to do this?"

    Brief edit:In any case I do agree with you on making event items untradeable
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    I made baseless claims because of the things they were saying.
    Like items shouldn't be untradeable because they want to store it in dressing room.
    But in reality wouldn't you want these items on you at all times? I mean they give combat buffs that otherwise require full sets of gear.
    The only thing that affects making the items untradeable is trading/selling which is the whole reason that we are in this situation. (and the dressing room but you cant store personalized gear in there anyway so i don't get it. I mean yeah its a space issue but its a combat item you don't complain about not being able to put your combat stuff in the dressing room.)
    People making multiple accounts to trade to their main account. And people making multiple accounts to to sell the items.
    But people here make it seem like losing out on these two things is justifiable even if it makes them unable to get the items in the first place.

    Thats the whole reason I've be arguing for untradeable items. But some people seemed to miss that.
    Trythis
  • TrythisTrythis
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    edited April 8, 2018
    You might not have seen it but I did an edit, I do agree with you on making things untradeable because there's no good compromise without requiring too much info from players account creation, but as you and few others said the people who are determined can find work arounds

    But yeah untradeable event stuff or a miracle compermise perhaps more effort intensive events? Idk how they would do that given the momentum of current events. Granted this won't stop all cheaters though
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Carlize wrote: »
    If they want people to stop abusing the events they'd need to have harsher punishments when they're obviously modding or using third parties like this.

    One thing I'd like to add to this, I wouldn't lump all those people together. While yes, some mods do break the game and allow for unfair advantages I'd say the average person uses them to reduce lag. You even see people streaming on twitch with mods enabled for textures to be removed/smoothed or the text to be fixed. It's a topic for a different thread but with some optimization (which they seem to be doing) much less people will bother with mods.

    Now multibox/botting is different entirely. It's inherently a negative thing that plagues every online game. The speed some of the alts blow through event coins, or the sheer amount of them means it's not a dedicated person farming each of these accounts, it's someone writing a script and pushing play.
  • CarlizeCarlize
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    @Hellkaizer yeah, I do definitely agree with that some people use it for optimization purposes, and while that should be considered a different situation, unfortunately though they're still listed as mods. I wasn't putting my personal opinion into that statement, if you look at what I said in context I was saying that was the only way they'd be stopping the alt armies that people have complained about. I also go on to say:
    Carlize wrote: »
    So even more so than trying to regulate modders and multiclienters, I think they need to look at how lazy their forms of events have gotten.

    So yeah I'm not trying to raise pitchforks against modders, I don't have a strong opinion on them either way. But this is the ultimatum that we'd be facing if people legitimately want the alt problem to entirely go away. It's the only logical fix Nexon would be able to implement, as it's unrealistic to think they'd be able to safely store either SSNs or phone numbers. No one should trust a company that 20 something year olds can easily get around their anti-modding software, especially when you consider huge companies like Equifax can't even keep their customers safe. We shouldn't have to risk our economic identity just to play a game.

    While I'm posting anyway, I was wondering about what you said here @Yagirii

    Yagirii wrote: »
    Friendly reminder that multi clienting is part of the KR base client and does not require mods. And like it was mentioned before in this post, multiple accounts is not against the ToS, and should not be.


    I have never heard this before, but if this is the case then it's actually something that shouldn't be overlooked. If that's the case, people in NA not only have to go against a KR-population size RNG, but one that also accounts for people multiclienting. With that in mind it's no wonder some items literally never make it into the game. That means really people may have been banned here for things that would be completely acceptable in the game's home country. So either that needs to be addressed and there needs to be an official push for ways to multi client, or they need to fix the RNG to more appropriately reflect within NA's population.



  • JazmynJazmyn
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    edited April 8, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Carlize wrote: »
    If they want people to stop abusing the events they'd need to have harsher punishments when they're obviously modding or using third parties like this.

    One thing I'd like to add to this, I wouldn't lump all those people together. While yes, some mods do break the game and allow for unfair advantages I'd say the average person uses them to reduce lag. You even see people streaming on twitch with mods enabled for textures to be removed/smoothed or the text to be fixed. It's a topic for a different thread but with some optimization (which they seem to be doing) much less people will bother with mods.

    Now multibox/botting is different entirely. It's inherently a negative thing that plagues every online game. The speed some of the alts blow through event coins, or the sheer amount of them means it's not a dedicated person farming each of these accounts, it's someone writing a script and pushing play.

    Mods in general are against the TOS so even someone who uses them to "only" reduce lag is a huge unfair advantage for someone who is abiding by the TOS and not modding their game so they're dealing with more lag then someone breaking the TOS.
    GretaMirralChan
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
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    Opalthira wrote: »
    "In general, make it not worth the time, or make the items very easily accessible, or make them niche."

    Thanks for agreeing that untradeable items are the way to go.

    Oh man, how conceited.

    I don't have an issue with making items untradeable, in fact in quite a few other posts I've stated the same thing would be the easiest answer, if not the most effective.

    The issue that I think a lot of the people arguing against you are having is that you're discarding all their arguments and saying untradeable or bust, whilst they're trying to find middle ground. You've said that you're waiting for that perfect compromise to be suggested by someone else, but instead of trying to incorporate multiple facets of ideas together to eliminate the potential exploitative qualities of it, you're saying 'Nope, won't work, untradeable or gtho.'

    I don't think you're trying to be arrogant, but that's what it feels like.
  • KouyioueKouyioue
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    edited April 8, 2018
    Let's throw a wrench into this: Cheaters

    Problem solved, much clearer word than modder, yay ! !

    I guess arguments don't self correct to a more appropriate word anymore in 2018 and instead devolve into tedious philosophy battles about "what weight does modding carry"

    Now people don't have to waste eachother's time clarifying everything four times per page and can just use the word cheaters instead! :D
    MirralChan
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Opalthira wrote: »
    "In general, make it not worth the time, or make the items very easily accessible, or make them niche."

    Thanks for agreeing that untradeable items are the way to go.

    Oh man, how conceited.

    I don't have an issue with making items untradeable, in fact in quite a few other posts I've stated the same thing would be the easiest answer, if not the most effective.

    The issue that I think a lot of the people arguing against you are having is that you're discarding all their arguments and saying untradeable or bust, whilst they're trying to find middle ground. You've said that you're waiting for that perfect compromise to be suggested by someone else, but instead of trying to incorporate multiple facets of ideas together to eliminate the potential exploitative qualities of it, you're saying 'Nope, won't work, untradeable or gtho.'

    I don't think you're trying to be arrogant, but that's what it feels like.

    I got a very preachy vibe off that too. There's no way someone is opening even 20 clients on one computer, mabi is too poorly optimized for that.

    As for a fix? I liked the cat bingo event, you couldn't easily farm that on alts that and making the top prizes untradable would discourage multi. I don't think the lower tier rewards should be locked (things like prof hammers, plat hammers etc) because newer players use those to get gold early on.

    Also according to the prices advertised by the bots in game, those 300m wings are worth $480. A used i5 is under $100, and you can get a gt 710 gpu for ~$45. Making those untradable would heavily reduce the alt spamming as nothing else from it was even that valuable.


    I just wish AFK events in general would die off, things like cat bingo, the star shard thing etc is nice. It rewards players who play more.
    MirralChan
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    edited February 5
  • SherriSherri
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    What should be done is getting rid of these ridiculous RNG events and replacing them with events where only your main needs to do it OR making the items buyable within the shop.
    Remember how we had those events where you get a certain amount of coins and you chose what items you would buy out of the shop? Maybe go from that and expand upon it. (As in let people buy more than the usual one bag/outfit and a few boxes.)
    YangKoete
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    edited April 8, 2018
    Sherri wrote: »
    What should be done is getting rid of these ridiculous RNG events and replacing them with events where only your main needs to do it OR making the items buyable within the shop.
    Remember how we had those events where you get a certain amount of coins and you chose what items you would buy out of the shop? Maybe go from that and expand upon it. (As in let people buy more than the usual one bag/outfit and a few boxes.)

    I hate the trend of the whole festia thing, and I feel like it might become the new regular. I still want more active events, with a cap maybe so people who don't have as much time can still play but tbh, I think cat bingo was one of my all time favourite events. aside from the really rigged rolls comparing bronze to gold orbs.
    MirralChan
  • RheyRhey
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    I also think extra efforts should be rewarded via reward loops/spending points if the events last more than twice the time req to snag everything once. People will be 2 burn_out to go on creating other alts acc if they can keep staying on one acc and cont. investing efforts.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    Sherri wrote: »
    What should be done is getting rid of these ridiculous RNG events and replacing them with events where only your main needs to do it OR making the items buyable within the shop.
    Remember how we had those events where you get a certain amount of coins and you chose what items you would buy out of the shop? Maybe go from that and expand upon it. (As in let people buy more than the usual one bag/outfit and a few boxes.)

    If they made more events like https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Cookie_Island_Event
    Im sure the community would be much more happier than with an rng only event basically.
    YangKoete