[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

Goodbye Forums...?

Comments

  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 37,880
    Posts: 5,423
    Member
    Hardmuscle is now a great example as to what actually people should be warned for. Literally derailing a thread to argue with several people.
    MiunaSherriSebastianDANIartsCrimsHellkaizerForeRuniaBuffalosLidrster
  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,405
    Posts: 238
    Member
    edited September 21, 2018
    I'm not usually one to get involved in this, but I have to say this: I think most of you're taking this the wrong way. And I don't mean to belittle your (mostly valid) complaints, just that this isn't the right approach.

    I've worked as a security agent before. I've seen warnings get handed to customers every so often for various reasons, and bans some of the time. Warnings would be given to people to make sure other agents were aware of the customer's history. However, bans were a different story: only superior officers were allowed to deliver them, and they were only given in cases where the customer's attitude was harmful or toxic. It wasn't a "three-strikes-you're-out" kind of rule, but rather a case-by-case basis.

    I believe the Mabinogi Forums work the same way. Despite getting a warning, that doesn't mean you're that much closer to a ban, simply that you've been warned and Moderators will know that you are aware not to repeat the action. That said, I'm not aware of the content of the original discussion, but I imagine (from Greta's discussion with Katherz) that the GMs felt they had to hand out warnings to avoid it getting out of hand.

    Nonetheless, that doesn't mean they were right. If all of the people involved in the "derailment" consider it wasn't negative or insulting, and that no one reported your comments as such, then you should discuss it constructively with the GMs, who I believe can handle this professionally and with the interests of the customers in mind. More importantly, I believe they'll listen to you, because 1) you're customers, and deserve to be treated as such, and 2) you play a massive role in this community. Your names are known by most, your comments are often what keeps discussions going, and to be honest, the forums would feel empty without all of you. The GMs know as much, and I'm sure they'd listen to you if you discuss this calmly, directly, and with an open mind.

    Edit: I misquoted. My bad.
    GretaSherriDANIartsMizukiHayamaForeRuniaBuffalos
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,960
    Posts: 753
    Member
    Draech wrote: »
    I'm not usually one to get involved in this, but I have to say this: I think most of you're taking this the wrong way. And I don't mean to belittle your (mostly valid) complaints, just that this isn't the right approach.

    I've worked as a security agent before. I've seen warnings get handed to customers every so often for various reasons, and bans some of the time. Warnings would be given to people to make sure other agents were aware of the customer's history. However, bans were a different story: only superior officers were allowed to deliver them, and they were only given in cases where the customer's attitude was harmful or toxic. It wasn't a "three-strikes-you're-out" kind of rule, but rather a case-by-case basis.

    I believe the Mabinogi Forums work the same way. Despite getting a warning, that doesn't mean you're that much closer to a ban, simply that you've been warned and Moderators will know that you are aware not to repeat the action. That said, I'm not aware of the content of the original discussion, but I imagine (from Greta's discussion with Katherz) that the GMs felt they had to hand out warnings to avoid it getting out of hand.

    Nonetheless, that doesn't mean they were right. If all of the people involved in the "derailment" consider it wasn't negative or insulting, and that no one reported your comments as such, then you should discuss it constructively with the GMs, who I believe can handle this professionally and with the interests of the customers in mind. More importantly, I believe they'll listen to you, because 1) you're customers, and deserve to be treated as such, and 2) you play a massive role in this community. Your names are known by most, your comments are often what keeps discussions going, and to be honest, the forums would feel empty without all of you. The GMs know as much, and I'm sure they'd listen to you if you discuss this calmly, directly, and with an open mind.

    Edit: I misquoted. My bad.

    Now THIS is good critique. I honestly couldn't agree more with this xD
    THIS is acceptable♥
    that's all I had to say about that.
    Sherri
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,565
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    I'm NOT perfect, I'm far from it and I'm not saying I've never said things I shouldn't have. But, I report things I see that really shouldn't be said because all they would do is start drama and have added nothing else to the thread (aka, trolling), and a lot of those things just get deleted. I don't see warning threads or warning complaints about those situations, so honestly, maybe some of you have been really lucky it's taken this long to get a 2nd warning. I wish everyone would stop pretending like they're completely innocent (no one is, including myself), and I think everyone needs to stop pretending like @Hardmuscle is the bad guy.

    Again, in THIS particular situation, maybe you were innocent; I didn't see this one. But, I don't suggest an all out rebellion. Taking a temporary break from the forums, is probably in your best interest for your own sanity and health; and I say that out of real concern, not to be mean. I do care about everyone here; but, I don't appreciate anyone ganging up on anyone: GM's, moderators, forum members, Nexon even, etc. We need to all stand up for each other, and not work against each other, it does absolutely nothing but cause stress, anxiety, anger, and depression. Like, don't we have enough of that in our real lives? Shouldn't we be using this game and the forums and even discord to get away from that?
    SebastianMizukiHayamaSherriCrimsDANIartsTHICCthighssavelivesHardmuscle
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,080
    Posts: 175
    Member
    edited September 22, 2018
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    ...and I think everyone needs to stop pretending like @Hardmuscle is the bad guy.
    ...

    don't think this is the case, rather taking constant reminders of "here's the TOS that say the company can just ban you", that add absolutely nothing meaningful to the conversation as trolling

    you can usually spot someone doing this exact thing whenever there is any kind of complaint about a ban or a warning, i don't think there's any reason to chime in to repeat that over and over other than baiting

    edit: I could be wrong assuming these people aren't simply fanboys, who knows, i have seen weirder stuff from people defending Apple...
    GretaJulieSherriDANIarts
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 37,880
    Posts: 5,423
    Member
    edited September 23, 2018
    EDIT: This list was dedicated to Hardmuscle's recent posts (Sept. 22th), which got removed now (Thank you Katherz for informing VFM's!). Leaving this in case if anyone got wrong ideas as well.
    • I didn't demand anything or attack Nexon. Where did you find such claims is beyond my imagination.
    • My intention of this thread was to share my thoughts and also learn what others are thinking. It really helped me to understand fellow forum users and also feel less sad over this sudden incident.
    • I'm not boycotting the forums, I decided to become a lurker instead so I could avoid being banned over small mistakes.
    • You are the one upset here. I'm also looking for explanation as to why you said that this thread doesn't belong in here. Town Square is literally a place to post anything to share with others, because town squares is a place where people communicate and share about various topics.
    • Katherz saw this thread and even DM'ed me. She's a great GM for actually answering my concerns. Thank you Katherz for not ignoring me and for being a friendly and helpful person, it's really easy to communicate with her because of that. Since she saw this thread and nothing happened to it - this means I didn't break any CoC and this thread stays.
    • Please stop posting here if you are only here to cause us trouble. You are ruining this thread and I really don't want to get it locked or removed over someone who doesn't agree with others. Please stop this and thank you.

    Now back on topic...
    I got a warning because I derailed threads several times. That's what Katherz said. Still weird as to why not only me, but few others also got warned for the same thing, which is really weird. Did we accumulate the same amount of "strikes" and got the same warning at the same time? I really don't know or understand fully how that goes, but that's what I was told as to why I got a warning this time.
    Just want to tell you this, GM's/VFM's: Thank you for trying to keep these forums as clean as possible, sorry for being rude or nuisance to you and i'm sorry for being a jerk and a sassy queen lol. This goes to other forum users as well. I was this way because I thought it was funny and sometimes I used to get this wrong ideology that what i'm saying or doing is always the right way. I was wrong and I was a jerk because of that. If you want you can forgive me, it's your choice. Will be really happy if you guys accept my apology. People say and do silly things when they freak out.
    I was really honest here. I feel like I was just purified now, rofl. I really hope I will be able to come back to these forums fully again in the future and laugh at this incident like it was nothing. Really hoping for good results in the forums and also in Discord server. I will be waiting. :) <3
    SebastianSherriDANIarts
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,180
    Posts: 271
    Member
    Guys just ignore him, the amount of projection and false assumptions have broken the ceiling, weather he be a fanboy or a troll or perhaps both, he's trying to set this thread on fire. Focus on just talking about the issues you guys have on the forums and pay him no attention as he does nothing to bring to the conversation and he should be left irrelevant in this thread, otherwise this thread will be locked.
    ForeRuniaSebastianGretaSherriDANIartsKaga
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,695
    Posts: 774
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Please stop posting here if you are only here to cause us trouble. You are ruining this thread and I really don't want to get it locked or removed over someone who doesn't agree with others. Please stop this and thank you
    Julie wrote: »
    Guys just ignore [that person] ... [that person is] trying to set this thread on fire. Focus on just talking about the [topic subject] ... otherwise this thread will be locked. (Quote paraphrased)

    The quotes above are important words of advice that apply to everyone, including those quoted above, not just hardmuscle. Please please remember your own advice in the future before trying to get a thread locked directly or indirectly. I hope everyone remembers this, including myself. For example, if someone uses a word or phrase that is not to your liking, please don't derail a thread to talk about the offending text then point at your own derailing discussion as evidence that the text is causing a commotion. A more honest solution is to report the text that offends you, ignore it, and carry on discussing the topic.
    SebastianGretaSherriDANIartsBuffalosForeRunia
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,495
    Posts: 1,968
    Member
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l
    SebastianNegumiko
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,180
    Posts: 271
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l

    yeah sadly we got told about a lot of things and they dont get done, hopefully they fix this eventually.
    SebastianSherri
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 37,880
    Posts: 5,423
    Member
    edited September 23, 2018
    Sherri wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l

    There seems to be some kind of issue with Custom Avatar resizing and some security issues too. Katherz also said she was testing it and she wasn't sure what happened with it. I guess they either forgot it or/and had more important tasks to do. I hope she will bring that up to their team sooner or later. I'm really glad that she's also planning to change the warning system.
    Anyway, at least they are starting to make threads about various topics such as Server Merge, Name Changes and also some Weekly Localization discussions. I see they are genuinely trying to do some favor for this community. They even fixed so much title names, and there is Monthly Patch Notes too which often fixes a lot of buggy old and new content. We should be really thankful for what they are doing right now. I believe Katherz will make some things to work here in forums too.
    SebastianDANIartsSherri
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,960
    Posts: 753
    Member
    Julie wrote: »
    Sherri wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l

    yeah sadly we got told about a lot of things and they dont get done, hopefully they fix this eventually.

    Honestly, I'm sure it can get implemented, even if it takes days, months, or even years.
    They have a list, right? like....based on that list and depending on how tough some of the coding will be for said list, it could take awhile.

    Though, with that being said, I hope to see improvement in how things are handled.
    I love this game as well as the community(I even jokingly called an admin my senpai - or something along the lines of that because it was funny in the sense of a completely different post). Point is, I hope forum rules get better, and I hope that when warned - we AT LEAST get a PM letting us know SPECIFICALLY why the warn was placed.
    SebastianGretaSherri
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,495
    Posts: 1,968
    Member
    edited September 23, 2018
    Greta wrote: »
    Sherri wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l

    There seems to be some kind of issue with Custom Avatar resizing and some security issues too. Katherz also said she was testing it and she wasn't sure what happened with it. I guess they either forgot it or/and had more important tasks to do. I hope she will bring that up to their team sooner or later. I'm really glad that she's also planning to change the warning system.
    Anyway, at least they are starting to make threads about various topics such as Server Merge, Name Changes and also some Weekly Localization discussions. I see they are genuinely trying to do some favor for this community. They even fixed so much title names, and there is Monthly Patch Notes too which often fixes a lot of buggy old and new content. We should be really thankful for what they are doing right now. I believe Katherz will make some things to work here in forums too.

    Ahh, so that's what's going on then. Well, if that's the case, then I definitely look forward to more info about the Warning system rather than Personal Avatars, it's much more important, at least IMHO c:
    As for Personal Avatars, it could be fixed by having a limit of how many times you can change it (maybe once a week or two) followed by a VFM and/or GM checking that photo for any ToS/security issues... possibly? Just an idea of mine
    DANIarts
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,180
    Posts: 271
    Member
    edited September 23, 2018
    Sherri wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Sherri wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad they're gonna try and make it so Warnings decrease over time but I'd like it if we got more information besides just that :c
    Though I guess that is a bit too much to ask for and who knows if it will even be added
    We've yet to get personal avatars after being told 'soon' about two years ago :l

    There seems to be some kind of issue with Custom Avatar resizing and some security issues too. Katherz also said she was testing it and she wasn't sure what happened with it. I guess they either forgot it or/and had more important tasks to do. I hope she will bring that up to their team sooner or later. I'm really glad that she's also planning to change the warning system.
    Anyway, at least they are starting to make threads about various topics such as Server Merge, Name Changes and also some Weekly Localization discussions. I see they are genuinely trying to do some favor for this community. They even fixed so much title names, and there is Monthly Patch Notes too which often fixes a lot of buggy old and new content. We should be really thankful for what they are doing right now. I believe Katherz will make some things to work here in forums too.

    Ahh, so that's what's going on then. Well, if that's the case, then I definitely look forward to more info about the Warning system rather than Personal Avatars, it's much more important, at least IMHO c:
    As for Personal Avatars, it could be fixed by having a limit of how many times you can change it (maybe once a week or two) followed by a VFM and/or GM checking that photo for any ToS/security issues... possibly? Just an idea of mine

    honestly theres lots of forums that handle the custom avatars situation just fine, as did this one before the forums updated, besides, these forums dont even get much traffic
    Sherri
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,775
    Posts: 1,030
    Member
    edited September 24, 2018
    [text removed]

    In my mind the point of this thread was to show that nexon needs a little better communication with how bans are handled. Obviously trying to talk about it hasn't worked in the past so hopefully this could lead to discussions being more open (As of now we basically know how nothing regarding forums work internally.) What hard is saying is basically "you just don't get it, I obviously get it because I'm right" and it's such low effort bait. When the people here are upset because they care. If I didn't care about the forums I'd take my warning and be gone, but I do care. That's why I'm here.
    SherriDANIarts
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,495
    Posts: 1,968
    Member
    I never got warned before so I don't know what those who did are going through, but I still care, not only because it may happen to me in the future but because it could happen to so many others. That and the Warnings don't expire atm. :c
    Plus I agree we don't know very much at all about what's going on when we deserve to know more.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,775
    Posts: 1,030
    Member
    edited September 24, 2018
    [text removed]

    Back on the topic at hand, I think the forums will die off unless we get some form of clarity. This isn't about anyone in general but...

    We have threads being moved/edited/changed that doesn't really follow any guidelines at all

    We're getting warnings that don't expire for seemingly small things

    And another one that's probably a topic for another day is we need some clarity on what's okay to use alts for. People on the forums seem to be okay with using alts for the Chest event, and for the beach event but flip out over a bone dragon. Yes people abused all of those events with armies of alts but why is it only worth getting upset for bone dragons?
    SherriDANIarts
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
    Member
    edited September 23, 2018
    Greta wrote: »
    Did we accumulate the same amount of "strikes" and got the same warning at the same time? I really don't know or understand fully how that goes, but that's what I was told as to why I got a warning this time.
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    We're getting warnings that don't expire for seemingly small things

    It'd be nice to know derailing threads was bad before you got the warning. Were you ever warned for it before getting the official warning? It looks incredibly inconsistent to dish out punishments for it happening once, but not even let anyone know anywhere(not even in the Code of Conduct) that derailing threads is a punishable action. Up until now, we're led to believe it's only bad if it's done with ill intent. I suppose it makes sense why some things seemed ignored, as it's likely a "strike" leading up to an official warning. But from a user perspective, that appears to be extremely spastic and lazy moderating.

    I don't know the pros and cons to this, but if there was a way to communicate when we get these "strikes," I'm sure most people would stop warn-able behavior. From what I can infer in this thread, no one even knew they were doing anything wrong until they received the warning. It's lack of clarity like this that makes it seem like there is a huge deal being made over seemingly small instances(which in turn creates a lot of FUD, such as putting a moderator's bias into question).
    SherriDANIarts
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,385
    Posts: 788
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Honestly at this point just best to ignore, let him be special and do whatever it is he's trying to do.
    Oh I know it's just best to ignore him now. I just wanted to get out some things I've been wanting to say to him for a while in a relevant manner.
    ForeRunia wrote: »
    It'd be nice to know derailing threads was bad before you got the warning. Were you ever warned for it before getting the official warning?
    Getting 'warned' without getting the account flag would require a moderator to make a post pointing that out, but anymore we seem to have ninja-moderators who don't post about anything they do(or post at all, for that manner), which is something Nexon absolutely must change with these forums. I really don't like that the moderating staff rarely make a post to a thread regarding actions taken in it, but I hate it more when the people doing the moderating get to just hide from everyone and do stuff because they simply have never made a post to the forums.
    Sherri
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
    Member
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Getting 'warned' without getting the account flag would require a moderator to make a post pointing that out, but anymore we seem to have ninja-moderators who don't post about anything they do(or post at all, for that manner), which is something Nexon absolutely must change with these forums. I really don't like that the moderating staff rarely make a post to a thread regarding actions taken in it, but I hate it more when the people doing the moderating get to just hide from everyone and do stuff because they simply have never made a post to the forums.

    It's a little bizarre that things get ninja-edited without a reason being provided, to be honest. I've never seen this behavior on any other forum I've been in. Then again, every other forum I've been in allows us to view all previous versions of a comment(when edited) and who edited the comment. There's no excuse to keep things hidden if there is nothing to hide. There's a lot of things that can be done to make users aware of what is happening, while maintaining privacy when necessary. Making a post in the thread, editing the comment(and signing it), or even PM'ing the user directly. Right now, it looks like everything that's questionable is being hidden. And events that don't follow this trend are few and far in between. It should never be assumed that a comment can be ninja-edited or even deleted before someone has seen it.