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Please stop having two gachas at the same time...

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  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    Let's boycott and refuse to buy these crappy gachas. I really dislike the idea of Special outfits with idle and others without idle. What is this crap? They keep trying to rip us off. Why Beauty Gacha exists as well? Smh. Getting really greedy I see.

    Well, they wouldn't let me charge my credit yesterday anyway so... :)
    Greta wrote: »
    Well for marketing, it's good to diversify your products? Give the consumer some options?

    Most gacha items are crap (like 80%) and drop rates are too low. I don't think we have many options.

    Take it or leave it! - Sears
  • CrimsCrims
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    Take it or leave it! - Sears

    d2873f3b3ed94bb9b456d5dfb343d07f-d2873f3b3ed94bb9b456d5dfb343d07f-0.jpg
    KensamaofmariJazmynhappyx2055Bronzebreak
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Well, They could require VIP service to do g22.

    I wouldn't have a problem if certain generations and advanced storylines were pay only.
  • IAAWIAAW
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    edited November 16, 2018
    I wouldn't have a problem if certain generations and advanced storylines were pay only.

    I'd rather not have Mabinogi go down that road again; still remember back in the day when you needed service to do G1 or even be able to use bags.

    (Not having access to the other half of the bank inventory was especially frustrating.)
    Zeohappyx2055
  • LeineiLeinei
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    IAAW wrote: »
    I wouldn't have a problem if certain generations and advanced storylines were pay only.

    I'd rather not have Mabinogi go down that road again; still remember back in the day when you needed service to do G1 or even be able to use bags.

    (Not having access to the other half of the bank inventory was especially frustrating.)

    Yeah making content pay-to-do would kill this game. They might as well make it subscription-based at that point. -_-
    Zeohappyx2055
  • MysteriousForumToolMysteriousForumTool
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    edited November 17, 2018
    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah making content pay-to-do would kill this game. They might as well make it subscription-based at that point. -_-

    They should get rid of gachapons and make it so vip players can acquire those items by doing ingame content. It would get rid of the gambling aspect and make vip worthwhile, along with refreshing old content. The gachapons's prized items would be easier for the players to focus on if it was spread out between different tasks as well.

    There's no reason to have 3 gachapons at the same time, with one having exclusive stat boosting items that will never be added ingame.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah making content pay-to-do would kill this game. They might as well make it subscription-based at that point. -_-

    They should get rid of gachapons and make it so vip players can acquire those items by doing ingame content. It would get rid of the gambling aspect and make vip worthwhile, along with refreshing old content. The gachapons's prized items would be easier for the players to focus on if it was spread out between different tasks as well.

    There's no reason to have 3 gachapons at the same time, with one having exclusive stat boosting items that will never be added ingame.

    That would require a lot of programming. Gacha is a simple thing for them to implement. All they need to do is put it in the Cash Shop and the system they have currently will put it in the Cash Shop Window of the character currently in the game, or if bought on the website, the character they want the gacha put on can be selected.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    Leinei wrote: »
    IAAW wrote: »
    I wouldn't have a problem if certain generations and advanced storylines were pay only.

    I'd rather not have Mabinogi go down that road again; still remember back in the day when you needed service to do G1 or even be able to use bags.

    (Not having access to the other half of the bank inventory was especially frustrating.)

    Yeah making content pay-to-do would kill this game. They might as well make it subscription-based at that point. -_-

    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:
  • IAAWIAAW
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    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    Mabinogi is not Runescape. More importantly, Runescape started as a F2P game and expanded with P2P content over time; because of this, Runescape is 90% a P2P game in both versions (RS3 and OSRS) with a relatively small (but decently packed, for what its worth) F2P portion which is often overrun with bots and most of the time only serves as a unlimited free trial with the potential to earn membership in-game with bonds (that someone else has to pay for). And in my case, Runescape's business model irritates me, especially in RS3's case where Jagex double dips with both a membership fee (to access the 90% of the game you can't access as a F2P) and blatant microtransactions through Treasure Hunter that makes Mabinogi's multiple gachas seem like the most balanced microtransactions ever in comparison.

    And if we're going to be really honest, Mabinogi was like this in its early incarnation; you had to pay for service to access storylines, be able to use bags, and be able to utilize your entire bank tab. On top of this, if you wanted to progress in Mabinogi at all through rebirthing, you had to pay for character cards on top of that. Players also were only ever given the one free character card (compared to the six new players receive these days, not counting support cards), so if you wanted additional characters (for more inventory/bank space, for example) you had to pay for that too. In this sense, Mabinogi in its early days was very much a "pay to progress" MMO; you had to pay to access storylines, you had to pay to expand your inventory with bags and utilize the entire bank tab, and you had to pay to rebirth, which is required if you want to actually progress.

    These restrictions were heavily alleviated over time, of course. But that was Mabinogi in its early days; it was very unfriendly to new players, you were heavily restricted in content access unless you paid for service, and if you wanted to progress you had to pay for character cards to rebirth on top of maintaining service. These are all aspects of Mabinogi that I really do not want to have be applied again, especially when Mabinogi over time has been redesigned to better support a more F2P atmosphere compared to the pay to progress atmosphere that early Mabinogi fostered. Maybe you would be okay with it, but for me personally (and likely for a lot of people) this is not a road that I want Mabinogi to go down again. Rather, I'd have them update VIP service (finally) and make maintaining service be actually worthwhile instead of being a hard requirement to access storyline content.
    VeylaineLeineiGretapawcalypseCrimsPolicromaAlexisEUZeohappyx2055Bronzebreak
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Leinei wrote: »
    IAAW wrote: »
    I wouldn't have a problem if certain generations and advanced storylines were pay only.

    I'd rather not have Mabinogi go down that road again; still remember back in the day when you needed service to do G1 or even be able to use bags.

    (Not having access to the other half of the bank inventory was especially frustrating.)

    Yeah making content pay-to-do would kill this game. They might as well make it subscription-based at that point. -_-

    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    I do hope this is sarcasm. ()(-_-)
    pawcalypseGretaZeo
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    edited November 17, 2018
    IAAW wrote: »
    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    COMPLAINTS ABOUT OLD PAID MABI


    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?
  • MikataharaMikatahara
    Mabinogi Rep: 860
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    IAAW wrote: »
    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    COMPLAINTS ABOUT OLD PAID MABI


    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?

    It would be extremely unreasonable for Nexon to take away content and place it behind a pay wall at this point in the game. It would be a market nightmare! Storyline content is what sells a game, it brings in new players and entertains old players, a paywall for that would be completely ludicrous! Its like allowing free liberties just to take it away when its not profitable. Crazy...
    I am not sure where your opinions are based but from here it seems like you are someone who has no problem throwing money for casual games. You seem like you would be much more comfortable in a subscription based MMO. But for me and my mabinogi experience from the very first year to now, I have accomplished tons more in terms of game progression in the last 2 years than in my first 8 years.
    For your question though, artifact restoration as a VIP skill is not unreasonable as normal players would have a means to restore artifacts with Vioght. But that would have to be implemented upon the release of that skill and not some off hand decision after the fact. If a talent was restricted behind a pay wall that would ruin the mabinogi/SAO experience. The point of Mabinogi was that it was not talent/job/class restricted. The freedom to do anything and be anything is what Mabinogi was based on. That is something I would never take away, and to think that it should be done is completely missing the point of this beloved game!
    Veylainepawcalypsehappyx2055BronzebreakTwelie
  • LeineiLeinei
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    IAAW wrote: »
    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    COMPLAINTS ABOUT OLD PAID MABI


    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?

    "Just little things", you mean skills people can live without? There is literally no point to what you're suggesting than for it to negatively affect the game by annoying the player base.
    VeylainepawcalypseBronzebreak
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 48,240
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    edited November 18, 2018
    IAAW wrote: »
    It works for Runescape.

    I can imagine it now! Avalon and the related storylines and content are all VIP-only. Erg and Eidos are VIP only, but can be sold to and used by free, non-paying players. Festia is revamped, merged with Doki Doki Island, and made VIP-only. It's glorious :love:

    COMPLAINTS ABOUT OLD PAID MABI


    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?

    I don't like your suggestions at all either. Plus doki doki has always been a place where everyone can come together on a beautiful island. How dare you suggest that should be pay to access. Ooooooof! You sound like a disgusting EA supporter. Did EA finally convince players that this kind of pay wall is acceptable??? Holy BLEEP! >:(

    And ANYWAY this thread wasn't suppose to be about vip or pay to play. This is about them flooding us with multiple gachas we can't afford all the time. I would like to know why they are doing this. They are not going to accomplish much except hamper potential profits for each gacha and put this game at risk. As Leinei suspects "they are trying to catch us up with KR". We are never going to catch up with them. There is too much stuff for them to translate and test. At best if they work really hard they can get us as close as 3 months. But is it worth it?

    No. That's my opinion.

    (Although I would LOVE for them to update the freaking VIP services. But something tells me since our game is such a Frankenstein monster that making that happen is very close to not happening at all).
    Veylainepawcalypsehappyx2055Bronzebreak
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    edited November 18, 2018

    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?
    please no, chains are one of the few talents that absolutely wrecks without reforges. I'd like to not have them behind a paywall to even use the talent.
    GretapawcalypseZeohappyx2055Bronzebreak
  • IAAWIAAW
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    I don't really care about that stuff from old mabi you talked about and implied I would like. I want exactly what I suggested in my post: Storyline from G19 through G21 made VIP-only. Avalon, Erg NPC, Eidos made VIP-only. Festia+Doki made VIP-only. Squires stay free to play, because I like them. I'd also throw in just a few VIP-only skills, like Wine Making, Mushroom Gathering, chain talent, Artifact Restoration, just little things.

    What do you think about the above suggestions?

    1.) Making G19-G21 VIP-only after it's been released as free content would both cause an uproar and cause issues; as an example, how would such a change effect those without VIP but have access to Crusader skills/Nascent Divinity? More importantly, considering how skills like Divine Link can be extremely important for the end game, wouldn't such a change cause a large P2W discrepancy between those who have VIP and those who don't? Isn't that something we don't want?

    2.) Not being able to have access to Avalon or Erg without VIP access would also cause an uproar and issues; again, you're talking about changing content into paid content after the fact when it has been released as free content for months. More importantly, Erg is another system that's important for end game due to the bonus stats and abilities it can provide for weapons, and again without VIP access how would those with Erg'd weapons and such be handled? Also, since you're talking about restricting G19-G21 to be VIP-only, making Eidos VIP-only is irrelevant when it's likely Nascent Divinity would be VIP-only as well.

    With that being said, if you're wondering why people complain about reforges all the time, their nigh end game necessity is why. Which is why it's so irritating to have to pay for them, even more so to have to deal with shady reforge resellers who probably aren't getting their stashes of Fine Reforging Tools legitimately.

    3.) Festia has been used before for events, most recently for Halloween; restricting Festia to VIPs only can make it impossible to complete some events. Plus, Festia is already barely used as it is; restricting Festia to be VIP-only would kill it. Same for Doki Doki Island; that's intended to be an event area in the grand scheme of things so again, restricting it would kill the content and make it impossible to complete certain events.

    4.) Squires should be VIP-only too if you're going to play that card; don't show bias just because you "like the content". If anything, that shows that you're blindly suggesting content to be converted to VIP-only content for the sake of it and nothing else, and shows that you'd likely not pay for it yourself.

    5.) Wine Making is required for ranking Musical Knowledge; making it VIP-only would make it impossible to rank Musical Knowledge above Rank 4 without VIP service without having to use Skill Training Seals. (Unless you want to suggest making Adventurer Seals/the Seal Merchant VIP-only, then those without VIP service are screwed out of Rank 1 Musical Knowledge without paying for service.)

    Making Mushroom Gathering VIP-only would be pointless and serve nothing except making a pointless paywall.

    Restricting an entire talent behind VIP service would both be a giant paywall (especially for new players) and would kill the main point of Mabinogi; being able to utilize multiple skills without being restricted in the process. End game viability is debatable of course but that's a topic for another thread.

    Artifact Investigation being VIP-only would again be pointless and serve nothing except making a pointless paywall. At least this skill has the benefit of not being necessary since Voight can handle artifact restoration.

    Making "little things" VIP-only would be irritating and the vague nature of "little things" has the potential to put paywalls everywhere. Not exactly intuitive.
    VeylaineGretaWolfandWolfCrimsZeohappyx2055Bronzebreak
  • MikataharaMikatahara
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    Back to the topic at hand though, releasing multiple gachas at the same time doesn’t bother me as much. I would prefer if maybe there is 2-3 weeks between new releases. Otherwise I don’t have much of a problem because I appreciate the fact that Nexon is taking into account that we in N.A., see content released in other countries and servers, now we are getting content not years behind the KR, JP, and Taiwan servers. For that I am happy to get the new content in a timely manner.
    Policroma
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    ^ You guys make good points. :) It's very distasteful for a company to release free content then take it away and make it pay-only. I think the answer is to make future generations from this point on VIP-only. The following point is moot now, but to clarify: I originally intended for only VIP players to make erg weapons, but for anyone to be able to buy and use them. Also, I intended for Festi-Doki Island to be available for everyone during events, but VIP members could visit at any time.

    Btw, yes I am just picking and choosing things to make VIP-only based on my own personal preference/bias. I don't have access to the entire playerbase's preferences, so I use my own as a foundation. And yes I am trying to make things VIP-only for the sake of it. The way I see it, mabi has a lot of content they're not charging for, and they could generate good revenue by putting certain things behind VIP. This is an alternative to releasing new content in gacha form, which leads to having multiple gacha sales at the same time.
    VeylaineAlexisEU
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    ^ You guys make good points. :) It's very distasteful for a company to release free content then take it away and make it pay-only. I think the answer is to make future generations from this point on VIP-only. The following point is moot now, but to clarify: I originally intended for only VIP players to make erg weapons, but for anyone to be able to buy and use them. Also, I intended for Festi-Doki Island to be available for everyone during events, but VIP members could visit at any time.

    Btw, yes I am just picking and choosing things to make VIP-only based on my own personal preference/bias. I don't have access to the entire playerbase's preferences, so I use my own as a foundation. And yes I am trying to make things VIP-only for the sake of it. The way I see it, mabi has a lot of content they're not charging for, and they could generate good revenue by putting certain things behind VIP. This is an alternative to releasing new content in gacha form, which leads to having multiple gacha sales at the same time.

    thats a bit more clearer and sounds better than the first take especially on how you expanded on how to handle the VIP doki stuff. Still don't want chains to be pay to use though.

    On topic yeah my friend was telling me about this last night that the Spring Garden Well was 40m then after the new gacha came out it jumped up to 80m lol.
  • IAAWIAAW
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    ^ You guys make good points. :) It's very distasteful for a company to release free content then take it away and make it pay-only. I think the answer is to make future generations from this point on VIP-only. The following point is moot now, but to clarify: I originally intended for only VIP players to make erg weapons, but for anyone to be able to buy and use them. Also, I intended for Festi-Doki Island to be available for everyone during events, but VIP members could visit at any time.

    Btw, yes I am just picking and choosing things to make VIP-only based on my own personal preference/bias. I don't have access to the entire playerbase's preferences, so I use my own as a foundation. And yes I am trying to make things VIP-only for the sake of it. The way I see it, mabi has a lot of content they're not charging for, and they could generate good revenue by putting certain things behind VIP. This is an alternative to releasing new content in gacha form, which leads to having multiple gacha sales at the same time.

    To me, storyline content is what can bring players back to Mabinogi so storyline content simply isn't something I personally want to be VIP-only. I can at least understand the desire however; the counterargument for me would be to treat it as expansions, maybe allow players to buy special tokens that can be sold to others so that everyone has a chance to work towards unlocking storyline content. That would be my compromise. As for Doki Doki Island, as an area that VIPs can access year round, I would be okay with that, especially if everyone would have access to it during events. Same for Festia, I suppose.

    As for VIP in and of itself? As said before, KR has updated VIP multiple times, making it something worth having in terms of the bonuses it provides. I honestly don't know why NA hasn't updated VIP service over here to match KR's VIP service since that alone is definitely a loss of profit in terms of VIP service fees. At the very least the Homestead Housing Update provides at least a reason to maintain VIP service for the free housing leases for those who want to utilize the research bonuses from the research stations you can create inside Homestead houses.

    As for gachas in and of itself, I have no problem with them for what it's worth, but I can understand players getting frustrated with how many there tends to be. In my case I just have a tolerance for them, especially compared to my experiences with certain other business models implemented in certain other games.
    happyx2055