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Permadeath Server

Comments

  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    edited January 21, 2019
    ^ well, when they call the OP names, when someone make a wholly separate thread just to add a poll about this thread against the OP's wishes, and then when someone else mass necros a lot of really old threads to try to bury this thread, then I think that counts as harassment. Let's be real here. We all know what went down here. I don't care. I think we can move on and just brainstorm happily without trying to kill the thread, because honestly this is just another random idea. Let's have fun.

    A poll helps keep the main question on point, even when the rest of the thread turns into a circus.
    As for the name calling and mass necro-ing, I didn't see either of those.

    If one does not want their ideas ripped apart by logic and reason, then they shouldn't post it. Simple as that.
    Unpayed wrote: »
    This is from my edit, if anyone else missed it. Since this topic was bumped, Ill bump it ironically.
    1. Shadow Death, as stated earlier.
    2. Girg Harder raids (Miss the timing)
    3. Field Boss Raids in general.
    4. Balor - Considering my experience with him, (three deaths/Naos) and other players...
    5. Adniel's Horn - This SUCH A GOOD WAY TO GRIEF
    6. Speaking of griefing, Kiting any monster to an afk person.
    7. Anything that contains Lag- Hell, Im using a 1060 6B Display, a 3.60 GHz Processor, 300MB DL Internet... Basically some top end computer with the third fastest option on my internet provider, and yes, I still get lag from time to time. All I know now is it's not me. It's Nexon's side.
    Yes, Its a good way to grief. You want me to add more?

    8. Ice Mines. Again Grief.
    9. Baol Infiltration in improperly equipped/tactics groups/user.
    10. Monster Summoning Urns. Griefing or Not, a player can summon one IN FRONT of Quila and kite them inside. Gods help them if it's a Red Dragon (It's lightning), A Desert Dragon (Discount "Elder Dragon Fled" Mechanic), Sandworm (Almost instantaneous high damage), Giant Lion (Persian used Roar!), or an Ifrit (Hello Aggro Hell)
    11. "The Tank Title" Right. Don't we need that for a technique?
    12. Aggro Hell in general.

    Lemme answer those in Cho's most likely responses:

    1: Then they die
    2: Then don't do them/accept death
    3: Then don't do them
    4: Then don't do it (even though Generations are a focal point in the game)
    5: Then don't run with those people in the future
    6: Then don't afk
    7: Lag is your fault, in the end
    8: Get better.
    9: Get better.
    10: Don't afk there.
    11: Then don't learn it.
    12: Then get a better computer.

    That's how I think Cho would respond to your points, since that's the train of thought he's been using this whole thread.

    I think all your points are valid.

    And to answer the question in point 11, yes, "the Tank" title is needed for Vital Surge.
    ZeoLeineiUnpayedTwelie
  • GretaGreta
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    Guys stop posting in this thread. It became a mess since page 1. Unless you want to get warned.
    Zeo
  • ChoCho
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    Helsa wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »

    Your attempt to squash free speech failed. Maybe YOU are the troll that needs to be banned.

    It's not free speech, it's etiquette. No one was stopping you from posting here, you were just upset because you didn't get your way about the poll.
    - Do not create multiple threads of the same topic or discussions to overwhelm the forums.

    I even asked you to stop and post here instead but you didn't listen. I hope the next post, if any, is actually pertaining to the topic.

  • HelsaHelsa
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    Your argument of etiquette is hollow. You did not want a poll because you knew it would not be favorable. You put your personal feelings above the search for truth. You have already admitted in this thread that you consider your arguments for the permadeath server as personally defending yourself. No one on the other side of the argument has taken it as such. Therefore you can not claim any sort of moral high ground.

    As of this post, there are twenty-one different avatars present in this thread. As of this post, there are twenty-four votes in the poll thread. Therefore there are at least three people who have been heard, despite your attempt to stifle them. Hence, I can claim the moral high ground.

    As someone once said:
    I hope the next post, if any, is actually pertaining to the topic.

  • ZuomoZuomo
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    edited January 25, 2019
    Only reason I say no is a lot of mabis community probably won't play it. Most people just mindlessly afk or do dailies. As for outside players I feel like mabinogis old looks and systems probably are a turn off. As most people i show mabi to say so. It feels like it would be a very niche thing in a already small game.

    Personally though, I feel like mabinogi can't provide a good experience with permadeath. It actually becomes incredibly faceroll easy. Even if the initial flow of players are unable to get used to it, when they do it probably wont be much more fun than the original can provide. Also being a nearly immortal being kind of would make it boring for me. I would prefer a new game all together set in the same world, where your just say tuatha de danann (Which in the context of mabi are more mortal than us.) With a new story where we can experience the historical conflicts in mabinogi and such. Or some way to branch off from the current story of being a near immortal god, the likes of which makes us seem like the mc of a isekai manga.

    I mostly like in perma death games:
    Realism (Perma death without a way to cheat it, open pvp, ways to mess with people, rewards for helping out and being good. More or less ways to make it more life like)
    Challenge (Reasons to actually play with people and even more reason to commend those who solo.)

    Mabinogi in my mind cant provide this as much. Pvp (And some skills)is unbalanced as heck, theres not much hard content and a lot of things are forced to be done solo anyway.

    As I said as well, a lot of people just sit around being fashion stars and such. (Which isnt bad, it can breed more life into said server anyway.)

    But mabinogi itself can actually be molded into this, because of how the combat is very segmented players can combo and have a very wide amount of decisions to make in combat which would be good in a permadeath situation.

    Sorry if some of this was brought up but I kind of lost my will to read much with the derailment/needless arguing.

    One issue some people said though is life skill training and I'd probably say there'd be a few who'd roleplay or make themselves merchants from it. I personally would. (plus how mabinogi works life skillers will be high damaging archers/chainbladers due to that delicious dex. This is basically how i played this character lol.)

  • HelsaHelsa
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    In all fairness, if it is implemented as a separate game in parallel with Mabinogi Classic, so that I can keep playing Mabinogi as I know it, what does it matter? If it doesn't effect my experience then, what the heck, let it be as harsh as possible. If Nexon wants to spend the money on making and maintaining a parallel version of Mabinogi, along with the one we have now, then that their business. But if we are to have this forced on us, well then that won't do.
  • ChoCho
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    Zuomo wrote: »
    Only reason I say no is a lot of mabis community probably won't play it. Most people just mindlessly afk or do dailies. As for outside players I feel like mabinogis old looks and systems probably are a turn off. As most people i show mabi to say so. It feels like it would be a very niche thing in a already small game.

    Personally though, I feel like mabinogi can't provide a good experience with permadeath. It actually becomes incredibly faceroll easy. Even if the initial flow of players are unable to get used to it, when they do it probably wont be much more fun than the original can provide. Also being a nearly immortal being kind of would make it boring for me. I would prefer a new game all together set in the same world, where your just say tuatha de danann (Which in the context of mabi are more mortal than us.) With a new story where we can experience the historical conflicts in mabinogi and such. Or some way to branch off from the current story of being a near immortal god, the likes of which makes us seem like the mc of a isekai manga.

    I mostly like in perma death games:
    Realism (Perma death without a way to cheat it, open pvp, ways to mess with people, rewards for helping out and being good. More or less ways to make it more life like)
    Challenge (Reasons to actually play with people and even more reason to commend those who solo.)

    Mabinogi in my mind cant provide this as much. Pvp (And some skills)is unbalanced as heck, theres not much hard content and a lot of things are forced to be done solo anyway.

    As I said as well, a lot of people just sit around being fashion stars and such. (Which isnt bad, it can breed more life into said server anyway.)

    But mabinogi itself can actually be molded into this, because of how the combat is very segmented players can combo and have a very wide amount of decisions to make in combat which would be good in a permadeath situation.

    Sorry if some of this was brought up but I kind of lost my will to read much with the derailment/needless arguing.

    One issue some people said though is life skill training and I'd probably say there'd be a few who'd roleplay or make themselves merchants from it. I personally would. (plus how mabinogi works life skillers will be high damaging archers/chainbladers due to that delicious dex. This is basically how i played this character lol.)

    Yeah I've been experminting with a couple life skill only characters and PTJs aren't as bad as they seemed with the bonus and production EXP is a nice replacement for combat exp. It's a fun alternative to combat and I'm learning about ways to streamline business in different roles like cooking or weaving. Also the payoff having access to high ranked skills I'd otherwise be procrastinating with combat skill ranking.

    I just see a lot of moments that feel like it doesn't matter if I die because I stocked up on Holy Waters or I have nao stones. If I'm actively trying not to die, missing an archery shot becomes a tense moment. Or the moments like when you see a 2nd Heavy Garg aggro you. But true once you get your character going it does become easier to stay alive.

    About the PVP, yeah I agree, it's more a PvE game. About hard content though, early leveling is pretty rough. Alby white spiders can 3 hit you if you're not careful. Because of the dungeon revamp, it's pretty much a surprise seeing how much HP they gave these bosses. I'm pretty sure the golem in Fiodh normal has like 40k HP. It took a lot of pots, windmills, and counters to beat it on a newer character.

    Because of there being a lot of players with high leveled characters, no one needs to recruit for dungeons much at all. You can just swap to your level 20,000 clear it, and send the loot to your alt through a pet or a bank. With a permadeath server, it's self refreshing in my opinion. Eventually someone will mess up and die and if people play too safe, they won't really make an impact. Anyone in that kind of server who's constantly bringing in valuable loot from dungeons and missions while staying alive, deserves it.

    The point about safe lifeskillers becoming deadly archers, I feel that archery at least deserves that lol. IDK about chainblade but archery is like a support skill set for assisting melee players. Props to the people that can turn that into a powerhouse. Not to bash archery, I've been interested in it for a while since I mainly only use melee and magic.

    About the possible lack of playerbase playing, it might just be me but there's a feeling that if you have a consistent group of people to play with (a party of 2 or 3) , even if the server is mostly empty, it doesn't feel like it besides when you want to buy something from the auction house or housing. But, I think at least a few people would be curious. I remember there being a lot of people wanting Nexon to unlock the character/pet limit on accounts a while back which makes me think people make new characters despite just being able to rebirth and do everything on their main. Either it's curiousity or maybe their combat on their main is just too high, who knows.
    Helsa wrote: »
    In all fairness, if it is implemented as a separate game in parallel with Mabinogi Classic, so that I can keep playing Mabinogi as I know it, what does it matter? If it doesn't effect my experience then, what the heck, let it be as harsh as possible. If Nexon wants to spend the money on making and maintaining a parallel version of Mabinogi, along with the one we have now, then that their business. But if we are to have this forced on us, well then that won't do.

    Yes, this is what I've been saying! I didn't really understand people on the first page going "oh hellz no" or talking about Nexon going out of business or losing the playerbase because of just popping in a "Redire" server or whatever the name right next to the Alexina server on the list. Money, sure, but if people thought it was so horrible, they could just go back to their main server. No issue.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Cho wrote: »
    Yes, this is what I've been saying, they could just go back to their main server.

    Even though the title of the thread clearly says Permadeath SERVER, that is exactly what happened. I live in Canada so the Canadian thing to do would be to admit it. In fact just so everyone else can save face just go ahead and . . .



  • ZuomoZuomo
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    Cho wrote: »

    Yes, this is what I've been saying! I didn't really understand people on the first page going "oh hellz no" or talking about Nexon going out of business or losing the playerbase because of just popping in a "Redire" server or whatever the name right next to the Alexina server on the list. Money, sure, but if people thought it was so horrible, they could just go back to their main server. No issue.

    Yeah, I mean I'd be curious as I regularly make new characters and test stuff and such like that. As for forcing players, even a new server shouldn't make you feel like they are forcing it on you.

    With other games they have specific pvp or RP servers, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to choose them, they exist for those people who want to play that way. So i'm pretty sure the suggestion would be to develop a permadeath system for use in its on individual server. So I'm not sure why there is a issue with you feeling like you wouldn't be able to play mabinogi how it is, Helsa?
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Zuomo wrote: »
    So I'm not sure why there is a issue with you feeling like you wouldn't be able to play mabinogi how it is, Helsa?

    Sigh. I really thought I wrapped this up nicely, where everyone could walk away without bad feelings. And then some one has to spoil it and demand their pound of flesh. Why don't you just go ahead and make up a theory as to why. Make it as insulting as possible. You know like: I'm a moron or evil or something like that.

  • CoolAidCoolAid
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    edited January 26, 2019
    Helsa wrote: »
    Zuomo wrote: »
    So I'm not sure why there is a issue with you feeling like you wouldn't be able to play mabinogi how it is, Helsa?

    Sigh. I really thought I wrapped this up nicely, where everyone could walk away without bad feelings. And then some one has to spoil it and demand their pound of flesh. Why don't you just go ahead and make up a theory as to why. Make it as insulting as possible. You know like: I'm a moron or evil or something like that.

    That's some mighty huge hyperbole if you actually read his post before you cut most of it none of it alluded to you being evil, so why should they make a post as such?

    Now I'm not for a permadeath server, not because I'll lose my progress but because it will be a waste of DevCats time since barely anyone who plays mabi would even try it.

    So let me reiterate, what he's is talking about is an optional server that players are not forced to play in, but since mabi would be extremely punishing with permadeath it would not be successful sever anyway and directly would not affect people like you because you wouldn't of tried it and just ignored the server like most of the player base. So again I'm not support of it because it's innately bad but because it would a waste of DevCats time to do.
  • ZuomoZuomo
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    edited January 26, 2019
    Helsa wrote: »
    Zuomo wrote: »
    So I'm not sure why there is a issue with you feeling like you wouldn't be able to play mabinogi how it is, Helsa?

    Sigh. I really thought I wrapped this up nicely, where everyone could walk away without bad feelings. And then some one has to spoil it and demand their pound of flesh. Why don't you just go ahead and make up a theory as to why. Make it as insulting as possible. You know like: I'm a moron or evil or something like that.

    I'm simply asking why a separate server in which you do not have to click, nor bother playing on, will have any effect on your ability to play mabinogi normally, since you did post that. I was nothing but respectful in asking and you have the ability to just not reply. I even said I did not support the idea, but for the sake of conversation of course I am exploring the idea.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    CoolAid wrote: »
    That's some mighty huge hyperbole if you actually read his post before you cut most of it none of it alluded to you being evil, so why should they make a post as such?

    They tacked the question onto the end. Furthermore, they used "you" instead of "anyone" and specifically used my name. They need not have attached the question at all, or at the very least made it general, in order to convey the thoughts that they did. So, I guess with what you say about evil we're gonna lean toward the moron theory then? Nice choice; it's actually even more insulting that the Evil theory. Okay let's go with that.


  • ZuomoZuomo
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    edited January 26, 2019
    Helsa wrote: »
    CoolAid wrote: »
    That's some mighty huge hyperbole if you actually read his post before you cut most of it none of it alluded to you being evil, so why should they make a post as such?

    They tacked the question onto the end. Furthermore, they used "you" instead of "anyone" and specifically used my name. They need not have attached the question at all, or at the very least made it general, in order to convey the thoughts that they did. So, I guess with what you say about evil we're gonna lean toward the moron theory then? Nice choice; it's actually even more insulting that the Evil theory. Okay let's go with that.


    Yes, I was asking you specifically a question about your opinion on something you said.

    "In all fairness, if it is implemented as a separate game in parallel with Mabinogi Classic, so that I can keep playing Mabinogi as I know it, what does it matter? If it doesn't effect my experience then, what the heck, let it be as harsh as possible. If Nexon wants to spend the money on making and maintaining a parallel version of Mabinogi, along with the one we have now, then that their business. But if we are to have this forced on us, well then that won't do. "

    It would literally make no sense if I didn't specify you. As i was asking you a question directly
  • CoolAidCoolAid
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    edited January 26, 2019
    Helsa wrote: »
    CoolAid wrote: »
    That's some mighty huge hyperbole if you actually read his post before you cut most of it none of it alluded to you being evil, so why should they make a post as such?

    They tacked the question onto the end. Furthermore, they used "you" instead of "anyone" and specifically used my name. They need not have attached the question at all, or at the very least made it general, in order to convey the thoughts that they did. So, I guess with what you say about evil we're gonna lean toward the moron theory then? Nice choice; it's actually even more insulting that the Evil theory. Okay let's go with that.


    No one is calling you an idiot or evil, that's not even the point, he even said he's not support of the idea. He's just pointing out it would be harmless to most players.

    The only thing I can think of is thought policing and that in itself isn't good or doable in a forum, it's better to stop assuming someone thinks you're something bad or dumb and just answer the question otherwise it just looks like you are trying to shift the conversation to be about insulting as opposed to the actual question.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited January 26, 2019
    Zuomo wrote: »
    I'm simply asking why a separate server in which you do not have to click, nor bother playing on, will have any effect on your ability to play mabinogi normally, since you did post that. I was nothing but respectful in asking and you have the ability to just not reply. I even said I did not support the idea, but for the sake of conversation of course I am exploring the idea.

    In my very last exchanges with the OP, it was made clear that the folks arguing against them were so passionate because they thought the suggestion was meant as a replacement for the present version of Mabinogi. It was not meant as such. This has now been understood by all parties. So, any further discussion of how to implement such a thing can go ahead without all the problems the thread had before. Asking, well, why would you even think that is beside the point of the discussion. One could then ask why is that being asked? But if you indeed asked this in good faith then your answer is: because it was mistakenly thought that this was meant as a replacement for Mabinogi.




  • ZuomoZuomo
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    Helsa wrote: »
    In my very last exchanges with the OP,

    Yes, clarification was all that was needed. I only asked since it was said so recently and as I said in my original post I did not read too much of the arguing that went on, but still wanted to say why I didn't think it was a good idea.

    So the reason it was asked was the previously openly stated ignorance on my part so I was simply asking if I was missing some thing, that happened in which OP said that it would replace the game, instead of just being a separate server.

  • ZairakZairak
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    Hmm...

    I am interested in the idea being implemented, but like some others, I don't see it as likely to be implemented in its current form. I could go into why upon request, but I'd rather focus this post on making an alternate suggestion.

    Instead of making an entire server dedicated to it, it may be more practical to take a page out of Runescape's book, and make it an option on the main servers, not a default setting.

    That is to say... players have the option to start a character out on a Permadeath setting unique to itself, not the player's account in general. It could be a prestige thing, with a special emblem next to the character's name. Perhaps put restrictions on trading with other players, or such like. Certainly less work than fielding an entire server for those who would want to play under the risk of losing everything.

    I don't personally see a need to add perks other than showing off your status as a Cool Kid, but even if there were perks, I don't think it would be a problem. Mabinogi is already easy enough, a few more perks won't break anything.

    In this way, many of the problems presented by other users would be nullified, and anybody who actually wants to look cool on the Internet would have that option.