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Morgant is Vayne

RelinquishedRelinquished
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in Story Discussion
Morgant is Vayne. No discussion, full obvious. Everything makes sense now. We all thought he was Lugh with his daughter, but that was just Vayne Mentally saying that to himself. He thinks that it was his daughter, but rather it was something he had to get done for Lugh because he owes him a favor I guess. And Lugh finds out and goes psychotic. Or maybe that was just a Wannabe Lugh and the real Lugh is the Lugh inside all of us.

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  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    So Morgant = Vayne = Balor?
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Nah, Vayne
    is Balor. If you've done G22, then you've been through the vision where he lived his defeat, at the hands of a Knight with wings (Knight of Light) who can only be Lugh Lavada (who was Morgant, who felt betrayed by humanity). That was the big giveaway for me. Honestly, I was expecting Piran to be some sort of two-faced evil guy too, but Cethlenn (silver haired elf guy) seemed too cold to him for that to be possible. But one thing that elf mentioned in the after credits made me excited.

    HE MENTIONS SERA. Does anyone remember who that is? If you don't or have never run the event, his name harkens back to the Samhain content where we met Meryl/Laighlinne. He is her grandfather, the shadow in the darkness who says he will do what needs to be done, and then basically takes out Meryl/Laighlinne. I've been waiting for this guy to actually do something after he popped up years ago. [/spoilers]
    KingEphy
  • RelinquishedRelinquished
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    edited January 17, 2019
    So Morgant = Vayne = Balor?

    Morgant = Vayne but Lugh is also Morgant and Vayne who was defeated by Lugh. Vayne was forced to be cursed by Oppression yet longing for Freedom; but he was given the task to protect Lugh's daughter Triona, yet at the same time Lugh was Morgant and Morgant is Vayne. Vayne angered how he failed to save Lugh's daughter, he trains Ruari to be good. Lugh goes insane and cries to himself. Morgant is Vayne and Lugh is Morgant.

    Basically it's Code Geass.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    At this point, I think Leinei's response has more to back up the identity of Vayne.
    Leinei
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Also, Lugh/Morgant wasn't trying to teach Ruairi to be good; he was trying to teach the numbskull to not blindly follow Morrighan and the Gods because they liked to play games, and that Humans were evil due to betrayal he experienced, further evident by Ruairi's dad being a jerk and offering his son to a dragon in exchange for power. He also goes nuts in G16, taking over the kingdom, believing Bella to being his daughter Triona, and then losing his mind when it turns out she isn't. If anyone's playing mind games on Lugh/Morgant it was Morrighan (who was responsible for Bella) and Cichol.

    If anything, I'm still suspecting Piran to be
    part of Vayne/Balor. Seriously, did you see Balor's mark? It's the Hymerark heart but with the left side flipped upward. Someone's trolling there. Anyway, weird as it is to admit, Balor hasn't really shown us any evil nature beyond leaving us in a room with an empty shell of his body that tried to kill us. Cethlenn deceived the Fomors while his boss buddy Vayne/Balor was running around with us and protecting two mortals from danger while we went after those black stones with the red eyes. Of course, that's just on screen. We don't know what he's been up to off of it.

    Honestly, the fact that Vayne being who he really is was obscenely too obvious. He doesn't lack subtlety with that magma armor of his and that flashback. I'm really hoping it's just a case of 'he just doesn't care that much because what are you going to do about it?" or some sort of misdirection like "hey, i'm wearing the magma armor, but my real self is over there, lol".
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Also, Lugh/Morgant wasn't trying to teach Ruairi to be good; he was trying to teach the numbskull to not blindly follow Morrighan and the Gods because they liked to play games, and that Humans were evil due to betrayal he experienced, further evident by Ruairi's dad being a jerk and offering his son to a dragon in exchange for power. He also goes nuts in G16, taking over the kingdom, believing Bella to being his daughter Triona, and then losing his mind when it turns out she isn't. If anyone's playing mind games on Lugh/Morgant it was Morrighan (who was responsible for Bella) and Cichol.

    If anything, I'm still suspecting Piran to be
    part of Vayne/Balor. Seriously, did you see Balor's mark? It's the Hymerark heart but with the left side flipped upward. Someone's trolling there. Anyway, weird as it is to admit, Balor hasn't really shown us any evil nature beyond leaving us in a room with an empty shell of his body that tried to kill us. Cethlenn deceived the Fomors while his boss buddy Vayne/Balor was running around with us and protecting two mortals from danger while we went after those black stones with the red eyes. Of course, that's just on screen. We don't know what he's been up to off of it.

    Honestly, the fact that Vayne being who he really is was obscenely too obvious. He doesn't lack subtlety with that magma armor of his and that flashback. I'm really hoping it's just a case of 'he just doesn't care that much because what are you going to do about it?" or some sort of misdirection like "hey, i'm wearing the magma armor, but my real self is over there, lol".
    Considering he taught you "enlightenment" it was more or less he knows for a fact that the Millitian wouldbeat that thing with little issue. Even Marlied notes how weak it was when compared to the legends of Balor. In fact he even goes as far as to speculate that the Millitian could actually find the sword that defeated him and other things. All things considered Vayne is genuinely interested in the Millitian. He even expresses sadness if you choose to be mistrustful of him during the Gen. The implications could be that maybe he wants another arch rival, or to knowing the Millitian's unlimited potential, raise them up to a power level to be used in a scheme, or he just wants to screw around and see how we interfere with the prophecy. Also my speculation is that Balor is a legitimate follower of Hymerark. As in he always has been. His twisted version of the mark might have been his way using the symbol to his own end. Considering that he actually knows and understands the teachings of the religion and can recite it and offers his own interpretations, either he picked up on it, or he has always been a worshiper. The flip side of the coin is that Hymerark is an evil god and has been directing Balor and the Fomors for some plan to overthrow Aton Cimeni. Not the first time a God went down that path.

    Morgant was more or less teaching Ruairi that the so called justice of the world isn't what it seems. That the Gods he thought were good, and the humans that upheld justice, where not what he thought they were. (Which he was entirely correct on). Also I still like to believe that the Lugh in G16 isn't Morgant. The man despised that name and obviously had a much greater scheme in mind, hinted at when he notes that he's using Cichol for his own ends as well. I feel like it was a step down for Morgant who went from manipulating the Gods to just screwing around with a kingdom.
    Leinei
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Yeah I felt that Lugh going insane was a bit weird. Morrighan set up Shakespeare with Bella when the first Milletian accidentally killed the king and Lugh "killed" him and took over. Then again, messing with people mentally (and using magic to those ends) hasn't been beneath the gods.
    I don't know. I get the idea of freedom would be in Balor's interests and line up with his mentality, but I don't know if I see him as a follower, but a doer. What makes a follower of Hymerark different than one of Lymilark in terms of being a sacrifice? That part doesn't make sense unless either a Hymerark follower sealed him or something akin to Balor's own power/blessing is required to bring him back, which could mean Hymerark is another one of Balor's names and he started the following.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah I felt that Lugh going insane was a bit weird. Morrighan set up Shakespeare with Bella when the first Milletian accidentally killed the king and Lugh "killed" him and took over. Then again, messing with people mentally (and using magic to those ends) hasn't been beneath the gods.
    I don't know. I get the idea of freedom would be in Balor's interests and line up with his mentality, but I don't know if I see him as a follower, but a doer. What makes a follower of Hymerark different than one of Lymilark in terms of being a sacrifice? That part doesn't make sense unless either a Hymerark follower sealed him or something akin to Balor's own power/blessing is required to bring him back, which could mean Hymerark is another one of Balor's names and he started the following.

    There's a lot of possession in this game, so I would think Lugh was possessed rather than going insane.
    Leinei
  • LeineiLeinei
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    edited January 19, 2019
    Tarlach suggested the Gods were causing something to happen to people who were of power. We were targeted by Morrighan because of it. Tarlach wanted to sacrifice us for it. Nuadha wanted us to become a God, probably for him to control (or attempt to).

    But to your point, as I mentioned about Shakespeare accidentally killing the king. That was prompted by Bella convincing him to kill Morrighan, whom Shakespeare thought he was killing. Bella has the ability to control others mentally hence why Shakespeare needed the Sphere of Truth to not be fooled by her. Lugh hated humans after the betrayal, but essentially tricking him into thinking his daughter was either still alive or reborn was a jerk move on the point of the Gods (Morrighan especially) and it wouldn't surprise me if Bella or the Gods had something to do with Triona's death. I can understand why Tarlach thought that he needed to clean house god-wise.
    -_-
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    Morgant is/was Lugh.

    That has been stated countless times.
    LeineiZeo
  • RelinquishedRelinquished
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    Morgant is/was Lugh.

    That has been stated countless times.

    No. Also the Chon Chon Theory is Correct. The Chon Chon King is Balor. CONFIRMED.

    I told you guys that the Chon Chon King existed. Therefore, Vayne cannot be Balor because Balor is the Chon Chon King.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    edited January 20, 2019
    Ah, so this is a troll thread and not one for serious discussion?

    tenor.gif?itemid=7221141
    BASS1243
  • ZeoZeo
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    edited January 20, 2019
    You know though, OP... it’s okay to be wrong.
    Leinei
  • GretaGreta
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    Oh it's him again. Another good joke.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah I felt that Lugh going insane was a bit weird. Morrighan set up Shakespeare with Bella when the first Milletian accidentally killed the king and Lugh "killed" him and took over. Then again, messing with people mentally (and using magic to those ends) hasn't been beneath the gods.
    I don't know. I get the idea of freedom would be in Balor's interests and line up with his mentality, but I don't know if I see him as a follower, but a doer. What makes a follower of Hymerark different than one of Lymilark in terms of being a sacrifice? That part doesn't make sense unless either a Hymerark follower sealed him or something akin to Balor's own power/blessing is required to bring him back, which could mean Hymerark is another one of Balor's names and he started the following.

    We do know that followers of specific Gods can actually derive power from said God. Holy Water is under the direct power of Lymilark and Kristell used the power of Lymilark to transform into a human. Likewise the human Paladin also derives power from Morrighan (though any deity can fill this role) for their transformation. It's entirely possible that the ritual will only work with Hymerark's power whose disciples would be granted.
    Also if Balor is Hymerark then he's seriously out of our weight class. For all our powers and abilities, at the very best we're only on par with 3rd tier deities like Morrighan or Cichol, that's including if we manage to combine the powers of story Brionac and Outworldly power. Hymerark is a tier 2 deity, these guys are seriously powerful and would totally wreck us without trying.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah I felt that Lugh going insane was a bit weird. Morrighan set up Shakespeare with Bella when the first Milletian accidentally killed the king and Lugh "killed" him and took over. Then again, messing with people mentally (and using magic to those ends) hasn't been beneath the gods.
    I don't know. I get the idea of freedom would be in Balor's interests and line up with his mentality, but I don't know if I see him as a follower, but a doer. What makes a follower of Hymerark different than one of Lymilark in terms of being a sacrifice? That part doesn't make sense unless either a Hymerark follower sealed him or something akin to Balor's own power/blessing is required to bring him back, which could mean Hymerark is another one of Balor's names and he started the following.

    We do know that followers of specific Gods can actually derive power from said God. Holy Water is under the direct power of Lymilark and Kristell used the power of Lymilark to transform into a human. Likewise the human Paladin also derives power from Morrighan (though any deity can fill this role) for their transformation. It's entirely possible that the ritual will only work with Hymerark's power whose disciples would be granted.
    Also if Balor is Hymerark then he's seriously out of our weight class. For all our powers and abilities, at the very best we're only on par with 3rd tier deities like Morrighan or Cichol, that's including if we manage to combine the powers of story Brionac and Outworldly power. Hymerark is a tier 2 deity, these guys are seriously powerful and would totally wreck us without trying.

    And it would be amazing to get wrecked at that level.

    Your post makes me wonder though. If we got our Paladin power from Morrighan, why can't she take it back from us (preferably without trying to kill us)?
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    (Milletians purpose is to overthrow the Tuatha de Dannan)
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Leinei wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah I felt that Lugh going insane was a bit weird. Morrighan set up Shakespeare with Bella when the first Milletian accidentally killed the king and Lugh "killed" him and took over. Then again, messing with people mentally (and using magic to those ends) hasn't been beneath the gods.
    I don't know. I get the idea of freedom would be in Balor's interests and line up with his mentality, but I don't know if I see him as a follower, but a doer. What makes a follower of Hymerark different than one of Lymilark in terms of being a sacrifice? That part doesn't make sense unless either a Hymerark follower sealed him or something akin to Balor's own power/blessing is required to bring him back, which could mean Hymerark is another one of Balor's names and he started the following.

    We do know that followers of specific Gods can actually derive power from said God. Holy Water is under the direct power of Lymilark and Kristell used the power of Lymilark to transform into a human. Likewise the human Paladin also derives power from Morrighan (though any deity can fill this role) for their transformation. It's entirely possible that the ritual will only work with Hymerark's power whose disciples would be granted.
    Also if Balor is Hymerark then he's seriously out of our weight class. For all our powers and abilities, at the very best we're only on par with 3rd tier deities like Morrighan or Cichol, that's including if we manage to combine the powers of story Brionac and Outworldly power. Hymerark is a tier 2 deity, these guys are seriously powerful and would totally wreck us without trying.

    And it would be amazing to get wrecked at that level.

    Your post makes me wonder though. If we got our Paladin power from Morrighan, why can't she take it back from us (preferably without trying to kill us)?

    Probably a bit of story and game-play segregation. Assuming that the origins of falcon and beast haven't changed, only the human paladin derives power from the God's favor. Falcon and beast derive power from their home lands while Dark Knights use Fomor magic to power theirs. Paladin is an interesting case in that a prospective Paladin must have 3 things, indomitable will power, spiritual blessing, and divine favor. Millitians can pretty much keep going through sheer stubbornness and determination and at the time of G2, the specific Millitian was Morrighan's champion. They also proved themselves worthy of the spirits by passing their trials hence why they met the 3 requirements needed to transform. By the time the Millitian has grown too powerful for Morrighan to manage, we are also in possession of Brionac and absorbed an actual demigod into ourselves. Its entirely possible that Morrighan did withdraw her support of us, but by that point we had our OWN divine power to keep Paladin running. In a weird case, it could just be Paladin is just their own deity.

    As for being wrecked at tier 2, if we go back and examine our battles, we've never fought a tier 3 deity and won on our own. Our only proper fight was with Nuadha and we were completely ineffective until Morrighan joined us. From a story stand point, it wasn't so much Morrighan helping us, it was us making up the difference between the power of Morrighan and Nuadha. To top it off, we didn't actually beat him either, we just held him long enough to lure him into a trap to seal him. At this stage Nuadha was ascending and was protected with perfect immortality, meaning nothing in Erinn could kill him anymore, this is a similar status that Aton, and his 3 tier 2 gods, have. And remember, at this point we OWN Brionac, which Neamhain used to kill Cichol, ANOTHER tier 3 deity. Suffice to say, even currently they are out of our weight class.

    On that note, I do think we do actually have a chance of beating them, though its quite small. Since we have access to outworldly power which is like anti-matter to native Erinn divine power we could probably damage even Aton with it. The problem is that the scale and level they would be at means we'll be flattened before anything significant happens.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Yeah, but what could we consider our Divine form then? False god?
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Yeah, but what could we consider our Divine form then? False god?

    The fact that "Milletians" cannot die is already proof of being a "false god."