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Notice to Belgian Players

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  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 26,685
    Posts: 5,840
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    Lobbyists.
    To be fair, she did bring her problems to social media, and never once the police. (Plausible slander case right here.)
    I'm not sure what social media justice in Japan is, but I doubt it would lead to a man losing his decade's lifetime of work without a conviction.
    If Japan knew about something like this, I wonder what they'd think? Could it even impact the anime relations with NA?
    (Either way, Mabinogi stands on the balancing thread with collab delays.)

    It's flawed logic that fictional sexual violence towards women in animation would cause problems in the real world. If that were the case, won't it be the same in any other type of media? Films, shows with real people, real actors? And are people banned from writing books that includes such scenes too? It's all bogus, but bogus with a little money tied suddenly become "real issues." And what about violence towards men? That exists too fiction and real world. No one ever talks about that.

    Well, that doesn't have much to do with Mabi does it? Only that there are stupid regulators that try to ruin the little entertainment the masses get to enjoy.

    Back on the topic of lootboxes, if lootboxes sold are considered gambling, why not just make the game premium to play and give people who pay lootboxes? (I better get smacked upside the head for this one)
    Sherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited February 21
    Lobbyists.
    To be fair, she did bring her problems to social media, and never once the police. (Plausible slander case right here.)
    I'm not sure what social media justice in Japan is, but I doubt it would lead to a man losing his decade's lifetime of work without a conviction.
    If Japan knew about something like this, I wonder what they'd think? Could it even impact the anime relations with NA?
    (Either way, Mabinogi stands on the balancing thread with collab delays.)

    It's flawed logic that fictional sexual violence towards women in animation would cause problems in the real world. If that were the case, won't it be the same in any other type of media? Films, shows with real people, real actors? And are people banned from writing books that includes such scenes too? It's all bogus, but bogus with a little money tied suddenly become "real issues." And what about violence towards men? That exists too fiction and real world. No one ever talks about that.

    Well, that doesn't have much to do with Mabi does it? Only that there are stupid regulators that try to ruin the little entertainment the masses get to enjoy.

    Back on the topic of lootboxes, if lootboxes sold are considered gambling, why not just make the game premium to play and give people who pay lootboxes? (I better get smacked upside the head for this one)

    No, no, no... these were real physical social media allegations the voice actress made against the voice actor.
    It has nothing to do with their characters. Just their company and convention employment, or current lack thereof.
    The legal repercussions of all parties are stated to be enough to bankrupt everyone involved in allegedly slandering the voice actor, who had his jobs visibly handed to the voice actress afterwards.
    (Again, she made social media accusations, never once going to the police with reports or convicting the voice actor.)
    I'm pretty sure Japan has standards, and Funimation being one of the involved parties has a hand in some of the anime property Mabinogi uses in collaborations. The legal outfall in this might affect the JP English voice over industry as rights get removed and passed around.
    This means delayed collaborations as studios play shuffle around the chairs, focusing on managing the industry, rather than advertisement.

    Handing out free loot boxes for purchasing the premium service might only work if it's done by the fortnight standards of level unlocked premium passes.
    (Again, I'm not sure how the legalities are currently, but as long as it's a free drop with no money exchange, it could potentially be validated as legal.)
    Gaea wrote: »
    Oh boy bidding is tomorrow. I'm going to be scouring all day and then on for any new articles. If you guys find anything before me please link em. Thank you.
    Initial bidding has begun, obviously they're not going to disclose financial details until after the end of the bidding period.
    Article link.
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
    Member
    edited February 22
    Yeah I know banks won't disclose that information, that's up to whichever company buys it. I'm just worried that if Tencent acquires most of Nexon's stock they will have majority. Even if they leave Nexon as a subsidiary, they could choose to shut down NA since we are just a sliver of their profits. My hope is that everything will be fine, but with all these regulations coming out...you can see why I am worried.

    Remember...that campfire event happened way BEFORE the founder of Nexon decided to do this. And now that video is conveniently gone, "deleted by twitch". Sure.

    :(
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited February 22
    Gaea wrote: »
    Yeah I know banks won't disclose that information, that's up to whichever company buys it. I'm just worried that if Tencent acquires most of Nexon's stock they will have majority. Even if they leave Nexon as a subsidiary, they could choose to shut down NA since we are just a sliver of their profits. My hope is that everything will be fine, but with all these regulations coming out...you can see why I am worried.

    Remember...that campfire event happened way BEFORE the founder of Nexon decided to do this. And now that video is conveniently gone, "deleted by twitch". Sure.

    :(

    On the plus side, if Tencent decides to work with Netmarble on this one, Netmarble could decide to handle NA for them.
    They handle Marvel Future Fight pretty well, listening to player feedback about loot boxes. (What a Twitter and rating storm that was.)
    Plus that app is pretty much global, so you know... benefit of the doubt.
    "Sources said various variables could affect the mega deal. Among them, the move by Tencent is cited as the biggest variable, though the firm is expected not to participate directly in the bid."
    So if not directly, then who might they be backing? I'd like to say Netmarble, but it's rather invalid at this point of the auction."


    "Who will be the winner in the M&A war may depend on whom Tencent will side with," a source said.

    "Another variable is an ongoing investigation by prosecutors against Nexon founder Kim over his alleged evasion of about 1.5 trillion won in taxes. The risk of possible legal trouble could burden global investors, according to sources."
    "Eyes are also on the movement of a Nexon union as the union members have claimed the M&A issue has threatened their job security."

    Uh... so this is a marketing oopsie if Nexon's founder is
    actually convicted for his tax evasion.

    You could probably see the company losing value during the duration of the bid as more bidders do their research.
    Yeah, I'd have to say that there's valid reason to be concerned about Mabinogi's future.
    A- The Cash Shop Model is 10 years old, and is now illegal! For the love of Ferghus, admit that there's marketing changes in progress!
    B- The management is a lazy bystander, as we have constantly been asking or pointing out about.
    C- What Marketing Team? We told you about the Cash Shop issues ages ago! (CMs only get you so far in business life!)

    There are books for this, you know. Pretty sure they cover "How not to put the value of your company at risk."
    (Seriously, are all KR founders this out of touch?)
    51Ga63Fa7LL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
    Either way, we should love and thank our Mabinogi staff in advance.
    I honestly didn't know about there being union issues, even if abroad.

  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
    Member
    So that's more than likely the reason he is jumping ship. Tax evasion, oof. But he did mention he was sick of all the new regulations and laws. Sounded like he was just plain sick of the industry.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited February 23
    Gaea wrote: »
    So that's more than likely the reason he is jumping ship. Tax evasion, oof. But he did mention he was sick of all the new regulations and laws. Sounded like he was just plain sick of the industry.

    Big Brother and Uncle Sam? Musta never heard of them.
    But yeah, legality with business is tough these days.
    Doesn't matter if Nexon is a KR company, there's always something new to learn. You gotta be willing to keep learning and adapting.
    technology-43906306
    You know that if Disney decides to outbid, there's going to be some tough changes.
    Forced Cash Shop Model changes, formal ESRB rating, possibly television advertising, and used for collaboration advertisement with profit to boot.
    I bet $10 that Parker Plays would be using Mabinogi, ect for loads of content on the Disney XD channel.
    I know that after Battlefront, Disney ain't gonna take any more gambling risks. That's just bad for reputation and parental trust.
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
    Member
    Or Disney would be like "Whats...mabinogi? I've never heard of this game. Shut it down. We don't need another Pirates of the Caribbean Online."

    oof. XD
    Darkpixie99THICCthighssavelivesKensamaofmariSherri
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,420
    Posts: 521
    Member
    Next: I hope every country in the world considers loot boxes kind of things as gambling.
    Darkpixie99THICCthighssavelives
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited February 24
    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    Next: I hope every country in the world considers loot boxes kind of things as gambling.

    There are regulations out there.
    Gaea wrote: »
    Or Disney would be like "Whats...mabinogi? I've never heard of this game. Shut it down. We don't need another Pirates of the Caribbean Online."

    oof. XD

    A sad but true consequence of ten years of inaction.
    200.gif
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
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    Rip! XD
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited February 24
    Gaea wrote: »
    Rip! XD

    It could be worse, Nexon could be Funimation. (No chance of redemption after a defamation lawsuit.)
    Honestly, Disney is more of a cost efficient toss of a die. Vindictus is already dead in Japan. (I believe it got shut down.)
    Mabinogi... isn't as popular as it was ten years ago, simply because gachapons. (Items never became drops or crafting recipes.)
    Netmarble has the balls to say, "Hey, we heard the community feedback about Loot Boxes, give us some time to remove them."
    Everything is out of player or employee hands, so hopefully the employees will be capable of communicating with the new Nexon overlords to fix everything.
    As in pretty much the entire Cash Shop... which is devoid of legal item sales. (Pet Cards and limited sets don't count.)
    Either way... Nexon is getting pulled someplace, and Mabinogi is going with the ride.
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
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    Comcast and Amazon are in the bidding now.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Comcast and Amazon are in the bidding now.

    Results will be in April.
    Belgium's repeal to loot box anti gambling law will be never. (I imagine.)
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 26,685
    Posts: 5,840
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Comcast and Amazon are in the bidding now.

    Results will be in April.
    Belgium's repeal to loot box anti gambling law will be never. (I imagine.)

    April would be if things go smoothly. But expect May or June before confirmed and another several months for regulators to approve.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited March 6
    Gaea wrote: »
    Comcast and Amazon are in the bidding now.

    Results will be in April.
    Belgium's repeal to loot box anti gambling law will be never. (I imagine.)

    April would be if things go smoothly. But expect May or June before confirmed and another several months for regulators to approve.

    In that case, it could be July before Mabinogi starts to see actual results of the Nexon company purchase.
    Prepare popcorn, tissues, and riot signs. (Peaceful protests as formal sounding Feedback threads, always remember that.)
    It's either going to be a sappy goodbye of old staff, or sweet relief of a few new staff.
    Then again, practically nothing could change in the studios. And nothing... changes... at all.
    you-thought-i-was-neople-but-it-was-i-nexon.jpg
    *cough* Down with gachapons, up with new Cash Shop Model. *cough*
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 41,865
    Posts: 6,424
    Member
    edited March 6
    tenor.gif?itemid=6116284
    LOL!!!!!!


    It would be rather sad that after 3 years Katherz finally got CM and then they shut it down. But...I wouldn't put it past them. Murphy's law.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,895
    Posts: 1,530
    Member
    edited March 8
    Gaea wrote: »
    tenor.gif?itemid=6116284
    LOL!!!!!!


    It would be rather sad that after 3 years Katherz finally got CM and then they shut it down. But...I wouldn't put it past them. Murphy's law.

    Regretfully, there's a multitude of ways for Nexon to be potentially be shut down.
    One is, (if there are any), a copyright law avoidance. This can happen in a number of ways, including through the built in music system.
    (MS2 has songs that KR may have a copyright over, but NA not currently/no longer carries the right to distribute, even for free.)
    Two is endorsing gambling with continued global gachapon sales. (Example: Belgium cracks down on open windows of opportunity.)
    And three... is that if they're far too in the red, and no one wants to work towards the black. (Because debt, and employees would be miserable.)
    Just Nexon being Nexon.

    Well, here's a PSA reminder for Nexon management to remember to pass along their entire list of credits for whenever the studios get shuffled around:
    "Generally, copyright is enforced as a civil matter, though some jurisdictions do apply criminal sanctions."
    Essentially, give credit where credit is due, and don't pull a Funimation by unlisting credits of unwanted names when the auction is done.
    Every member of Nexon's KR and outer branches are important, whether they are members who are currently working with Nexon or not.
    (Also whether or not Nexon gets to remain a company, the credits must always remain as they are during the development era.)

    Gambling, according to Wikipedia is no different from the Gachapon loot boxes.
    "Many betting systems have been created in an attempt to "beat the house" but no system can make a mathematically unprofitable bet in terms of expected value profitable over time. Widely used systems include: Fixed stakes – a traditional system of staking the same amount on each selection. Optimism/Desirability Bias. Gamblers also exhibit optimism, overestimating the likelihood that desired events will occur."

    Keep following the law.
    The last thing Nexon needs is to be shut down for both gamble endorsement, and potential copyright or defamation lawsuits.
    (Started by employee social media drama or general carelessness.) *cough* Funimation *cough*
    Seriously, the pull ratios aren't helping anyone be swayed into purchasing gachapons. Just hurry up and comply everywhere else.
    List single item sales instead!
  • XxBearslayerxXXxBearslayerxX
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,230
    Posts: 74
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    GM_Supreme wrote: »
    The Belgian Gaming Commission has declared that ‘loot boxes’ in games (items with an element of chance that are acquired with either real money or virtual currency purchased with real money) are subject to Belgian gambling legislation. In light of the current regulatory activity in Belgium, Nexon America has decided to take proactive measures.

    Mabinogi is taking the following steps effective February 14, 2019. These changes will only affect players accessing the game from Belgium.

    Players who access the game from Belgium will no longer be able to access the Cash Shop from the in-game menu. You can still make purchases through the Web Shop on the website. You will no longer be able to purchase the following items:

    • Items categorized as Gachapon which include the limited-time Gachapons, the permanent Eweca Orb Gachapon (1) and (11), and the Fixed Dye Gachapon.
    • These items will no longer be visible to you within the Web Shop. If you purchase(d) any of these items prior to February 14, 2019, they can still be used normally.

    We apologize for any inconvenience this causes our Belgian players.

    -The Mabinogi Team

    Meaning, and DO NOT(not a single person) confirm this; If you live in Belgium, and still want to buy Gachapons, use a VPN and mirror another European country then buy your Gachapons? While I openly support such legislation, I believe that the main offense comes exploitation. *Cough* EA *cough*

    You just confirmed it by blatantly telling people to use a VPN. That's a big big no no.

    https://support-mabinogi.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/360000955026-Can-I-use-VPN-to-play-Nexon-games-

    Plus that was pretty hypocritical for you to say that and then say you support the legislation. Ok. :D

    Though I will say that Nexon can not detect VPN's at this time. I know some players that have to use them to gain access to content some EU countries block, i.e music and videos ext. Often they run their VPN at the same time and watch youtube or netflix while waiting for the next raid, lol. Plus they also use them for security reasons. I honestly see nothing wrong with this and EU is just becoming a crazy place to live in.

    So I guess this block is kinda futile. But it doesn't negate the fact that this action on Nexon's end was stupid in the grand scheme of things. Their business model still needs to change.

    Shhhhhh I didn't say a thing, not a single thing. <_< >_> I forgot to put a question mark there.
  • XxBearslayerxXXxBearslayerxX
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,230
    Posts: 74
    Member
    edited March 10
    Gaea wrote: »
    GM_Supreme wrote: »
    The Belgian Gaming Commission has declared that ‘loot boxes’ in games (items with an element of chance that are acquired with either real money or virtual currency purchased with real money) are subject to Belgian gambling legislation. In light of the current regulatory activity in Belgium, Nexon America has decided to take proactive measures.

    Mabinogi is taking the following steps effective February 14, 2019. These changes will only affect players accessing the game from Belgium.

    Players who access the game from Belgium will no longer be able to access the Cash Shop from the in-game menu. You can still make purchases through the Web Shop on the website. You will no longer be able to purchase the following items:

    • Items categorized as Gachapon which include the limited-time Gachapons, the permanent Eweca Orb Gachapon (1) and (11), and the Fixed Dye Gachapon.
    • These items will no longer be visible to you within the Web Shop. If you purchase(d) any of these items prior to February 14, 2019, they can still be used normally.

    We apologize for any inconvenience this causes our Belgian players.

    -The Mabinogi Team

    Meaning, and DO NOT(not a single person) confirm this; If you live in Belgium, and still want to buy Gachapons, use a VPN and mirror another European country then buy your Gachapons? While I openly support such legislation, I believe that the main offense comes exploitation. *Cough* EA *cough*

    You just confirmed it by blatantly telling people to use a VPN. That's a big big no no.

    https://support-mabinogi.nexon.net/hc/en-us/articles/360000955026-Can-I-use-VPN-to-play-Nexon-games-

    Plus that was pretty hypocritical for you to say that and then say you support the legislation. Ok. :D

    Though I will say that Nexon can not detect VPN's at this time. I know some players that have to use them to gain access to content some EU countries block, i.e music and videos ext. Often they run their VPN at the same time and watch youtube or netflix while waiting for the next raid, lol. Plus they also use them for security reasons. I honestly see nothing wrong with this and EU is just becoming a crazy place to live in.

    So I guess this block is kinda futile. But it doesn't negate the fact that this action on Nexon's end was stupid in the grand scheme of things. Their business model still needs to change.

    Shhhhhh I didn't say a thing, not a single thing. <_< >_> I forgot to put a question mark there.

    oh no...how old is this thread?..... AHHHHHH I MEANT TO HIT EDIT. DARN IT!!!!!!! DOUBLE POST!!!!
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,565
    Posts: 751
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    *People beg for VIP Revamp, Server Merge, some other content that got lost in abyss years ago*

    Nexon: Maybe...? We will think about it...

    *Instead releases new gacha twice or even thrice every month*

    Nexon: Now THIS IS what we are talking about!


    Yeah, we've discussed why this Cash Shop Model is failing. (Five pages later, and we're back on topic XD)
    qy6wabksw6zz.jpg
    9e4743d1-cfcf-4038-90da-8be01f04c2dd.jpg

    Your insight speak sound to all gamers.
    CrimsDarkpixie99Sherri