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Server Merge

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  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,740
    Posts: 2,552
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    edited August 6, 2017
    @Oligarchy
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    I don't think you're really taking into consideration what anyone else says. I have no idea why you think that the game is populated enough, but it isn't.

    Also, I said if you follow the wiki and check at PEAK TIMES the server population. I'm tired of arguing with someone that isn't important enough to do anything about it anyways. I highly doubt anyone from Nexon even reads or cares about these forums, just like they obviously don't care about us and what the majority of people want.

    Like I said before, I don't understand why you are so against a server merge. You are literally fighting to NOT have one. Are you worried your name will be taken? Or that you will lose everything? Even if they decided to do a server merge, I doubt anything would be lost (aside from the naming conflict -- which could just be : give the oldest character who is active within like 30-60 days or so priority for the name).

    Regardless, it seems that you're playing a different Mabinogi than everyone else.
    The part I marked in bold is proof you know nothing about me. Literally nothing. If you were able to go back a few hundred pages and actually knew who you were talking to, you'd know I was the person who explained why names are not an issue (unless of course -like this discussion- they're made into an issue). Users with the same name can co-exist on the same server, in much the same way as items with the same names do.

    In terms of data, our names are an "insignificant decoration" used for in-game identity. ~ Character | Pet data is cataloged by ID # (not names).

    (A fail attempt to patronize me).
    @Unwanted2
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Again, I'm not here to attack you. In fact, no one is attacking you. They're disagreeing with you, just like you disagree with them. If disagreeing with someone is somehow attacking, then you were attacking others, too.
    It's hard to measure server population considering offline players because 1)they could be inactive for god knows when, you'd have to exclude people who has been offline for 5+ months. 2) They could be alts with purpose of event exploit. (Who only logs in for event rewards like hot time event).
    It's very apparent neither of you two have actually read anything I said (in the context under which it was said). This thread is a combination of dozens of combined and merged threads (atop a 9-year continuation carried over across two dead forums and into a third). Don't sit there and tell me my acknowledging offline players as part of the userbase is something you disagree with, because it was not up for a debate. We do not have the right to determine who gets to play Mabinogi and who does not; no matter what interpretation of the population anyone has.

    Regarding your private message: .. I took it personal because folks like you made it personal.

    The meter shown when you first make a character is a representation of the online population at the moment. I don't care if you agree with me or not, that is a fact. (It is not a representation of the total population of the server). You cannot determine the total population using that meter, nor can you disavow offline users just because "they weren't online" when you (the great you) looked at the meter. The same applies to sleeping on opposite sides of the globe. ~ I wonder how many people complaining about a low population (on USA servers) are in Europe and Oceania.

    655wQHC.png
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Oligarchy
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    I don't think you're really taking into consideration what anyone else says. I have no idea why you think that the game is populated enough, but it isn't.

    Also, I said if you follow the wiki and check at PEAK TIMES the server population. I'm tired of arguing with someone that isn't important enough to do anything about it anyways. I highly doubt anyone from Nexon even reads or cares about these forums, just like they obviously don't care about us and what the majority of people want.

    Like I said before, I don't understand why you are so against a server merge. You are literally fighting to NOT have one. Are you worried your name will be taken? Or that you will lose everything? Even if they decided to do a server merge, I doubt anything would be lost (aside from the naming conflict -- which could just be : give the oldest character who is active within like 30-60 days or so priority for the name).

    Regardless, it seems that you're playing a different Mabinogi than everyone else.
    The part I marked in bold is proof you know nothing about me. Literally nothing. If you were able to go back a few hundred pages and actually knew who you were talking to, you'd know I was the person who explained why names are not an issue (unless of course -like this discussion- they're made into an issue). Users with the same name can co-exist on the same server, in much the same way as items with the same names do.

    In terms of data, our names are an "insignificant decoration" used for in-game identity. ~ Character | Pet data is cataloged by ID # (not names).

    (A fail attempt to patronize me).
    @Unwanted2
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Again, I'm not here to attack you. In fact, no one is attacking you. They're disagreeing with you, just like you disagree with them. If disagreeing with someone is somehow attacking, then you were attacking others, too.
    It's hard to measure server population considering offline players because 1)they could be inactive for god knows when, you'd have to exclude people who has been offline for 5+ months. 2) They could be alts with purpose of event exploit. (Who only logs in for event rewards like hot time event).
    It's very apparent neither of you two have actually read anything I said (in the context under which it was said). This thread is a combination of dozens of combined and merged threads (atop a 9-year continuation carried over across two dead forums and into a third). Don't sit there and tell me my acknowledging offline players as part of the userbase is something you disagree with, because it was not up for a debate. We do not have the right to determine who gets to play Mabinogi and who does not; no matter what interpretation of the population anyone has.

    Regarding your private message: .. I took it personal because folks like you made it personal.

    The meter shown when you first make a character is a representation of the online population at the moment. I don't care if you agree with me or not, that is a fact. (It is not a representation of the total population of the server). You cannot determine the total population using that meter, nor can you disavow offline users just because "they weren't online" when you (the great you) looked at the meter. The same applies to sleeping on opposite sides of the globe. ~ I wonder how many people complaining about a low population (on USA servers) are in Europe and Oceania.

    655wQHC.png

    And you must not be reading everything either. I never once said the server stats WHEN YOU MAKE A CHARACTER. I only ever referenced to the wiki measurements which change as the population and server status changes. I stated if you follow the server measurements at peak times.

    And no, I didn't go back and read through all the other messages, especially yours. Because at this point I don't give a .
  • ObsimObsim
    Mabinogi Rep: 910
    Posts: 42
    Member
    Sebastian wrote: »
    I'm not sure if its been mentioned, but what of player shop space? I can barely find a spot in Belvast in Ch. 1 Alexina, merging it will just be a nightmare.

    I guess people could sell in other towns, which would be nice, but then it's just a race to get the best spots in the best marketing towns. I dunno. Wouldn't mind seeing people from other servers.

    Wouldn't it be nice to see shops everywhere? Sometimes having to CC to 1 is a terrible thing to do and even sometimes you cannot as it is full. Having those shops spill out to Ch 2 and 3 etc... would make it that much more intriguing to go shopping cause you never know what you will find.... on any channel.
    Danievictria
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,740
    Posts: 2,552
    Member
    edited August 7, 2017
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    And you must not be reading everything either. I never once said the server stats WHEN YOU MAKE A CHARACTER. I only ever referenced to the wiki measurements which change as the population and server status changes. I stated if you follow the server measurements at peak times.

    And no, I didn't go back and read through all the other messages, especially yours. Because at this point I don't give a .
    The meter on the wiki is the same meter (they both draw their information from the same source). If you continue to harass me, I will have no choice but to formally report you to the GM. Admitting you didn't read the thread or the comments before making a reply to what was said is a case closed scenario. You have no business remarking if you didn't read what you're remarking to (to clarify; you can post like anyone else; but, if you're not going to bother reading whatever it is you're attacking, it makes you a troll). ~ Like yourself to me; I don't have to put up with you.

    You and your friend (your ...."shadow") have not offered anything to this thread; literally nothing at all. Your only posts in this thread are posts made to attack me and my opinion, by stating how much more valuable you feel your opinion is over my opinion. -and like I said before; this a merged thread dump; Constant arguing over whether or not this should or could happen is stupid; because it's already been officially denied.
    This debate is literally asking Nexon to close the door on thousands of offline accounts (literally hundreds of thousands), solely on the basis of not being in attendance when some fool who doesn't know what they're looking at determines their existence to be null. This debate needs to die.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,300
    Posts: 2,088
    Member
    QqVXIa.gif

    Excuse me whilst I read through all this. . .
    Hardmuscle
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,675
    Posts: 774
    Member
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of games and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am 100% against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.

    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)

    Anyone that knows me from my behavior on the previous forum knows that me and Hardmuscle don't agree. (Heck, we were even "shipped" together once, for being so against each other).

    However, I agree with Hard. A server merge is a sign of desperation.

    What a lot of you pro-merger people seem to have forgotten is that this is Mabinogi and Nexon. Mabinogi, the game that runs on an engine literally no one outside of the game has even HEARD of (in comparison to, say, Valve's Source Engine, which many people who have never touched a Valve game knows about (Vindictus runs on Source Engine 1)). Remember what happened when Pioneers of Iria (Generations 4, 5, and 6) were added? The game was down for three days straight. Generation 9? Took the game down for over a day. I SHUDDER to think of what disastrous occurences would happen with a server merge; I'd be surprised if ANY data survived that, looking back on Nexon's track record. As for devCAT, all of the people who originally made the Pleione engine no longer work at devCAT.

    Crossx2, it doesn't matter how you felt your server was, you abandoned it; I see enough people talk to see that Ruairi still has life, and I can see that WITHOUT logging onto the Ruairi server. Tarlach has a few very active guilds (one coincidentally named Active).

    As for the reason why people leave, there are MANY reasons; toxic communities (like Alexina), long dry spells of no significant updates (which have happened from time to time), or simply losing interest (its possible). I know a few Alexinians who would ditch Alexina like a poisonous rash for servers like Tarlach. More people =/= a better experience 100% of the time.
    YokkaichiSherriHardmusclegre
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,420
    Posts: 793
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Obsim wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be nice to see shops everywhere? Sometimes having to CC to 1 is a terrible thing to do and even sometimes you cannot as it is full. Having those shops spill out to Ch 2 and 3 etc... would make it that much more intriguing to go shopping cause you never know what you will find.... on any channel.

    I see where you're going with that, but I personally don't like having to channel hop to check out the shops in the plazas. Makes it that more tedious haha.
    What a lot of you pro-merger people seem to have forgotten is that this is Mabinogi and Nexon. Mabinogi, the game that runs on an engine literally no one outside of the game has even HEARD of (in comparison to, say, Valve's Source Engine, which many people who have never touched a Valve game knows about (Vindictus runs on Source Engine 1)). Remember what happened when Pioneers of Iria (Generations 4, 5, and 6) were added? The game was down for three days straight. Generation 9? Took the game down for over a day. I SHUDDER to think of what disastrous occurences would happen with a server merge; I'd be surprised if ANY data survived that, looking back on Nexon's track record. As for devCAT, all of the people who originally made the Pleione engine no longer work at devCAT.

    I don't think the engine would affect how a server merge would go. The maintenance time of a merge would definitely be fairly long compared to the norm, but if people want it and Nexon decides we need it I won't mind that. If they manage to mess up server data, they'd just roll back to a server-data-state made prior to the maintenance (a rollback point which would need to be made before they perform a merge maintenance).
    Hardmuscle
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,300
    Posts: 2,088
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    After reading through all this, I'm against a server merge and mega server, for many reasons;

    1. It seems people are forcing the ideology of this thread down our throats. They think only about themselves or their server on this topic. Even then, people on their servers are also bound to disagree, sooo..
    2. I rather not be forced to merge servers and deal with much more people. I actually like having a smaller amount of population. If I wanted/needed others, I would simply change to channel 2 (Mari's busier channel)
    3. Although not confirmed this would happen, I don't want to lose a single thing I've earned throughout the years I have been playing Mabi.
    4. I'm worried about my computer and internet. I'm lucky enough that I can handle a busy Belvast on Ch 2 Mari. I'd rather not bother with anything more than that, thanks.
    5. Our economy is already all over the place. -_-

    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    As somebody from Mari, I'm also against this. Don't speak for the whole population of Mari OR the other servers!
    Hardmuscle
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 174
    Member
    edited August 7, 2017
    If they're not going to do it at least put some effort on bringing players (new or returned)
    or make game more solo-player friendly
    or start providing server transfer services so people that don't like their servers can move
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    And you must not be reading everything either. I never once said the server stats WHEN YOU MAKE A CHARACTER. I only ever referenced to the wiki measurements which change as the population and server status changes. I stated if you follow the server measurements at peak times.

    And no, I didn't go back and read through all the other messages, especially yours. Because at this point I don't give a .
    The meter on the wiki is the same meter (they both draw their information from the same source). If you continue to harass me, I will have no choice but to formally report you to the GM. Admitting you didn't read the thread or the comments before making a reply to what was said is a case closed scenario. You have no business remarking if you didn't read what you're remarking to (to clarify; you can post like anyone else; but, if you're not going to bother reading whatever it is you're attacking, it makes you a troll). ~ Like yourself to me; I don't have to put up with you.

    You and your friend (your ...."shadow") have not offered anything to this thread; literally nothing at all. Your only posts in this thread are posts made to attack me and my opinion, by stating how much more valuable you feel your opinion is over my opinion. -and like I said before; this a merged thread dump; Constant arguing over whether or not this should or could happen is stupid; because it's already been officially denied.
    This debate is literally asking Nexon to close the door on thousands of offline accounts (literally hundreds of thousands), solely on the basis of not being in attendance when some fool who doesn't know what they're looking at determines their existence to be null. This debate needs to die.

    You can report me, I honestly don't care.

    But anyways, I understand where you're coming from with all of your points. However, you should try to understand where we are coming from as well with our servers. Having half the active population of Alexina, it's very sad. It is desperation at this point, tbh.

    Mabinogi is not in the best state right now, and it hasn't been for a while. I personally think a merge would bring some life back into the game itself. That's what I care more about: the atmosphere like it used to be.
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 8, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    And you must not be reading everything either. I never once said the server stats WHEN YOU MAKE A CHARACTER. I only ever referenced to the wiki measurements which change as the population and server status changes. I stated if you follow the server measurements at peak times.

    And no, I didn't go back and read through all the other messages, especially yours. Because at this point I don't give a .
    The meter on the wiki is the same meter (they both draw their information from the same source). If you continue to harass me, I will have no choice but to formally report you to the GM. Admitting you didn't read the thread or the comments before making a reply to what was said is a case closed scenario. You have no business remarking if you didn't read what you're remarking to (to clarify; you can post like anyone else; but, if you're not going to bother reading whatever it is you're attacking, it makes you a troll). ~ Like yourself to me; I don't have to put up with you.

    You and your friend (your ...."shadow") have not offered anything to this thread; literally nothing at all. Your only posts in this thread are posts made to attack me and my opinion, by stating how much more valuable you feel your opinion is over my opinion. -and like I said before; this a merged thread dump; Constant arguing over whether or not this should or could happen is stupid; because it's already been officially denied.
    This debate is literally asking Nexon to close the door on thousands of offline accounts (literally hundreds of thousands), solely on the basis of not being in attendance when some fool who doesn't know what they're looking at determines their existence to be null. This debate needs to die.
    I don't care if you are going to report me, and I don't know why are you so sure that 'disagreeing with you' is going to ban people....I stated above why I disagree with you, I guess you didn't read that.....so that means you are.....


    You make it seem like they're going to delete all inactive accounts.
    If those 'offline' accounts still plays then eventually they'll be on active players meter. Calculating average active player % for a month would be fair.
    As you say 'earth isn't flat' so there's very rare chance that 'all the players are going to login all at once and overpopulate the server' and that's why I want to follow the active players meter.
    No one said your opinion doesn't matter; and I did read all of your other points(not counting inactive players, merging channels, etc)and commented them, but you're the one who keep saying 'This thread is pointless because it's been officially denied,it's been going on since 2009 and it needs to stop' which is....you're denying other people's opinion yourself. I said don't view this thread if you hate it for no logical reason.
    Sherri wrote: »
    After reading through all this, I'm against a server merge and mega server, for many reasons;

    1. It seems people are forcing the ideology of this thread down our throats. They think only about themselves or their server on this topic. Even then, people on their servers are also bound to disagree, sooo..
    2. I rather not be forced to merge servers and deal with much more people. I actually like having a smaller amount of population. If I wanted/needed others, I would simply change to channel 2 (Mari's busier channel)
    3. Although not confirmed this would happen, I don't want to lose a single thing I've earned throughout the years I have been playing Mabi.
    4. I'm worried about my computer and internet. I'm lucky enough that I can handle a busy Belvast on Ch 2 Mari. I'd rather not bother with anything more than that, thanks.
    5. Our economy is already all over the place. -_-

    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    As somebody from Mari, I'm also against this. Don't speak for the whole population of Mari OR the other servers!
    I used Mari+Ruairi+Tarlarch server just for an example. Doesn't mean servers should be merged that way.

    What kind of internet/computer do you have if you can barely handle that....?
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of games and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am 100% against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.

    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)

    Anyone that knows me from my behavior on the previous forum knows that me and Hardmuscle don't agree. (Heck, we were even "shipped" together once, for being so against each other).

    However, I agree with Hard. A server merge is a sign of desperation.

    What a lot of you pro-merger people seem to have forgotten is that this is Mabinogi and Nexon. Mabinogi, the game that runs on an engine literally no one outside of the game has even HEARD of (in comparison to, say, Valve's Source Engine, which many people who have never touched a Valve game knows about (Vindictus runs on Source Engine 1)). Remember what happened when Pioneers of Iria (Generations 4, 5, and 6) were added? The game was down for three days straight. Generation 9? Took the game down for over a day. I SHUDDER to think of what disastrous occurences would happen with a server merge; I'd be surprised if ANY data survived that, looking back on Nexon's track record. As for devCAT, all of the people who originally made the Pleione engine no longer work at devCAT.

    Crossx2, it doesn't matter how you felt your server was, you abandoned it; I see enough people talk to see that Ruairi still has life, and I can see that WITHOUT logging onto the Ruairi server. Tarlach has a few very active guilds (one coincidentally named Active).

    As for the reason why people leave, there are MANY reasons; toxic communities (like Alexina), long dry spells of no significant updates (which have happened from time to time), or simply losing interest (its possible). I know a few Alexinians who would ditch Alexina like a poisonous rash for servers like Tarlach. More people =/= a better experience 100% of the time.

    Desperation is why this thread exists. Also more people leave then people join(for various reason you stated), so community is bound to decline...
    Merging has nothing to do with engine, but adding contents is. Those incidents seem like they happened long time ago- and I rather not judge them with something happened that long ago.
    A lot of people don't know this but...DevCAT no longer even takes care of mabi since god knows when. However they successfully did server merge without DevCAT, even at korea where population is much bigger than ours.
    kapapa
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,675
    Posts: 774
    Member
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    And you must not be reading everything either. I never once said the server stats WHEN YOU MAKE A CHARACTER. I only ever referenced to the wiki measurements which change as the population and server status changes. I stated if you follow the server measurements at peak times.

    And no, I didn't go back and read through all the other messages, especially yours. Because at this point I don't give a .
    The meter on the wiki is the same meter (they both draw their information from the same source). If you continue to harass me, I will have no choice but to formally report you to the GM. Admitting you didn't read the thread or the comments before making a reply to what was said is a case closed scenario. You have no business remarking if you didn't read what you're remarking to (to clarify; you can post like anyone else; but, if you're not going to bother reading whatever it is you're attacking, it makes you a troll). ~ Like yourself to me; I don't have to put up with you.

    You and your friend (your ...."shadow") have not offered anything to this thread; literally nothing at all. Your only posts in this thread are posts made to attack me and my opinion, by stating how much more valuable you feel your opinion is over my opinion. -and like I said before; this a merged thread dump; Constant arguing over whether or not this should or could happen is stupid; because it's already been officially denied.
    This debate is literally asking Nexon to close the door on thousands of offline accounts (literally hundreds of thousands), solely on the basis of not being in attendance when some fool who doesn't know what they're looking at determines their existence to be null. This debate needs to die.

    You can report me, I honestly don't care.

    But anyways, I understand where you're coming from with all of your points. However, you should try to understand where we are coming from as well with our servers. Having half the active population of Alexina, it's very sad. It is desperation at this point, tbh.

    Mabinogi is not in the best state right now, and it hasn't been for a while. I personally think a merge would bring some life back into the game itself. That's what I care more about: the atmosphere like it used to be.

    Yes, your personal belief is that it will bring some life back. It may not, though.
    HardmuscleSherri
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,675
    Posts: 774
    Member
    edited August 8, 2017
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    The meter on the wiki is the same meter (they both draw their information from the same source). If you continue to harass me, I will have no choice but to formally report you to the GM. Admitting you didn't read the thread or the comments before making a reply to what was said is a case closed scenario. You have no business remarking if you didn't read what you're remarking to (to clarify; you can post like anyone else; but, if you're not going to bother reading whatever it is you're attacking, it makes you a troll). ~ Like yourself to me; I don't have to put up with you.

    You and your friend (your ...."shadow") have not offered anything to this thread; literally nothing at all. Your only posts in this thread are posts made to attack me and my opinion, by stating how much more valuable you feel your opinion is over my opinion. -and like I said before; this a merged thread dump; Constant arguing over whether or not this should or could happen is stupid; because it's already been officially denied.
    This debate is literally asking Nexon to close the door on thousands of offline accounts (literally hundreds of thousands), solely on the basis of not being in attendance when some fool who doesn't know what they're looking at determines their existence to be null. This debate needs to die.
    I don't care if you are going to report me, and I don't know why are you so sure that 'disagreeing with you' is going to ban people....I stated above why I disagree with you, I guess you didn't read that.....so that means you are.....


    You make it seem like they're going to delete all inactive accounts.
    If those 'offline' accounts still plays then eventually they'll be on active players meter. Calculating average active player % for a month would be fair.
    As you say 'earth isn't flat' so there's very rare chance that 'all the players are going to login all at once and overpopulate the server' and that's why I want to follow the active players meter.
    No one said your opinion doesn't matter; and I did read all of your other points(not counting inactive players, merging channels, etc)and commented them, but you're the one who keep saying 'This thread is pointless because it's been officially denied,it's been going on since 2009 and it needs to stop' which is....you're denying other people's opinion yourself. I said don't view this thread if you hate it for no logical reason.
    Sherri wrote: »
    After reading through all this, I'm against a server merge and mega server, for many reasons;

    1. It seems people are forcing the ideology of this thread down our throats. They think only about themselves or their server on this topic. Even then, people on their servers are also bound to disagree, sooo..
    2. I rather not be forced to merge servers and deal with much more people. I actually like having a smaller amount of population. If I wanted/needed others, I would simply change to channel 2 (Mari's busier channel)
    3. Although not confirmed this would happen, I don't want to lose a single thing I've earned throughout the years I have been playing Mabi.
    4. I'm worried about my computer and internet. I'm lucky enough that I can handle a busy Belvast on Ch 2 Mari. I'd rather not bother with anything more than that, thanks.
    5. Our economy is already all over the place. -_-

    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    As somebody from Mari, I'm also against this. Don't speak for the whole population of Mari OR the other servers!
    I used Mari+Ruairi+Tarlarch server just for an example. Doesn't mean servers should be merged that way.

    What kind of internet/computer do you have if you can barely handle that....?
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of games and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am 100% against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.

    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)

    Anyone that knows me from my behavior on the previous forum knows that me and Hardmuscle don't agree. (Heck, we were even "shipped" together once, for being so against each other).

    However, I agree with Hard. A server merge is a sign of desperation.

    What a lot of you pro-merger people seem to have forgotten is that this is Mabinogi and Nexon. Mabinogi, the game that runs on an engine literally no one outside of the game has even HEARD of (in comparison to, say, Valve's Source Engine, which many people who have never touched a Valve game knows about (Vindictus runs on Source Engine 1)). Remember what happened when Pioneers of Iria (Generations 4, 5, and 6) were added? The game was down for three days straight. Generation 9? Took the game down for over a day. I SHUDDER to think of what disastrous occurences would happen with a server merge; I'd be surprised if ANY data survived that, looking back on Nexon's track record. As for devCAT, all of the people who originally made the Pleione engine no longer work at devCAT.

    Crossx2, it doesn't matter how you felt your server was, you abandoned it; I see enough people talk to see that Ruairi still has life, and I can see that WITHOUT logging onto the Ruairi server. Tarlach has a few very active guilds (one coincidentally named Active).

    As for the reason why people leave, there are MANY reasons; toxic communities (like Alexina), long dry spells of no significant updates (which have happened from time to time), or simply losing interest (its possible). I know a few Alexinians who would ditch Alexina like a poisonous rash for servers like Tarlach. More people =/= a better experience 100% of the time.

    Desperation is why this thread exists. Also more people leave then people join(for various reason you stated), so community is bound to decline...
    Merging has nothing to do with engine, but adding contents is. Those incidents seem like they happened long time ago- and I rather not judge them with something happened that long ago.
    A lot of people don't know this but...DevCAT no longer even takes care of mabi since god knows when. However they successfully did server merge without DevCAT, even at korea where population is much bigger than ours.

    What works for Korea won't neccessarily work for us. Korea probably has better equipment since the game is more popular over there, for one thing. They certainly have a much larger flow of cash than NA does.

    So, unless the Koreans come over here to personally code the server merge themselves, "they successfully did server merge without DevCAT, even at korea where population is much bigger than ours" means absolutely nothing, and does not reflect in any such way the ability to successfully do it over here, since the people who would most likely do the coding are the people here, who I do not trust at ALL.

    Hardmuscle's "hatred" of this topic is justified; no matter how many times these requests have led to nothing (Nexon even once publically said that a server merge will not happen) people still beg for one. Its like beating a dead horse with another dead horse.
    SherriYokkaichiHardmuscle
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 26,220
    Posts: 5,769
    Member
    I honestly do not see the desperation on servers that others say.
    Then again, it is hard to gauge other servers that I'm not on.
    On Mari, it may not be as populous as it once was, but no where have I seen desperation of people leaving en masse or talk of server merging to save everyone.
    HardmuscleSherri
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,740
    Posts: 2,552
    Member
    edited August 9, 2017
    @Unwanted2 and @Oligarchy

    Why do the two of you (or you) spend so much time playing a game you despise? Perhaps the two of you (or you) should go play a different game, permanently. As for the reports, I said formally (as opposed to in this forum) and the both of you (or you) can consider it done. Your actions from this point forward (both in the forum and in the game) will determine the outcome. ~ I don't recall asking if you cared or not.

    vipersig.jpg

    Putting words in my mouth doesn't change a thing here. Closing the door is not about deleting accounts. It's about making the game unavailable because everyone has been squeezed together like sardines on one server, which at some point will become too full to accommodate the existing (as opposed to non-existing) userbase. Requiring Nexon to replace what you spent the last 9 years begging them to remove. ~ Define redundant.
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 11, 2017

    What works for Korea won't neccessarily work for us. Korea probably has better equipment since the game is more popular over there, for one thing. They certainly have a much larger flow of cash than NA does.

    So, unless the Koreans come over here to personally code the server merge themselves, "they successfully did server merge without DevCAT, even at korea where population is much bigger than ours" means absolutely nothing, and does not reflect in any such way the ability to successfully do it over here, since the people who would most likely do the coding are the people here, who I do not trust at ALL.

    Hardmuscle's "hatred" of this topic is justified; no matter how many times these requests have led to nothing (Nexon even once publically said that a server merge will not happen) people still beg for one. Its like beating a dead horse with another dead horse.

    While nobody knows who will take care that kind of stuff(coding,merging server etc)
    Complaining that 'this thread is old' is unfair for people who joined later - not everyone has been around here forever. Also, things change, like *cough* population of game.....I bet 2017 is definitely very different from 2009.
    I already know suggesting anything to Nexon is beating a dead horse. I don't expect anything but I do support this.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Unwanted2 and @Oligarchy

    Why do the two of you (or you) spend so much time playing a game you despise? Perhaps the two of you (or you) should go play a different game, permanently. As for the reports, I said formally (as opposed to in this forum) and the both of you (or you) can consider it done. Your actions from this point forward (both in the forum and in the game) will determine the outcome. ~ I don't recall asking if you cared or not.

    vipersig.jpg

    Putting words in my mouth doesn't change a thing here. Closing the door is not about deleting accounts. It's about making the game unavailable because everyone has been squeezed together like sardines on one server, which at some point will become too full to accommodate the existing (as opposed to non-existing) userbase. Requiring Nexon to replace what you spent the last 9 years begging them to remove. ~ Define redundant.

    No I don't hate this game I just don't like having not enough people all the time ^^ You don't have right to tell someone to play different game. Your point is only legit....if there were enough people to make server completely full. I'd understand if you were only against mega server.
    kapapa
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,740
    Posts: 2,552
    Member
    edited August 10, 2017
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    No I don't hate this game I just don't like having not enough people all the time ^^ You don't have right to tell someone to play different game. Your opinion is only legit....if there were enough people to make server completely full. I'd understand if you were only against mega server.

    I did not contextually tell you to "play a different game". I implied, if you despise the game so much then perhaps you should go play a different game, permanently; (if the shoe fits; wear it). My opinion is legit all of the time; as is every other opinion on this forum (let that sink in).

    There seems to be a communication problem here. ~ This thread is not about Hardmuscle's opinion, or your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or Hardmuscle's opinion of your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or anybody else's opinion of anyone's opinion. This is not an opinion party. :|

    This thread is a Nine-Year-Old (dead-on-arrival) debate. It remains open (as opposed to locked) only as a place to merge its own restoration in to (each time it's restored by someone who can't comprehend no). If there was only 1 channel on Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi (or you weren't playing when you know the USA is asleep for the most part), there'd be more than enough people to serve you; and yes yes, I am aware that the game is open to more than just the USA, but this does not change the fact that the servers are in the USA. I say "serve you" because, the level of thought (or lack of it) being applied here is assuming, 'others must be here to cater for everyone else'.. and that is not the case. You are basing your entire "judgement" on only the visible population (each and every time you make the judgement) and not once acknowledging those who aren't being included (accounted for; even rightfully), due to being offline for any length of time (be it 5 years, 5 months, 5 weeks, 5 days, or 5 minutes).

    You and this cult (the server-merge-groupies) can't exactly say, "a user's non-presence around you (when you deem they must be present to serve you, on the spot) is indicative of inactivity warranting a merge of servers"; let alone a loss of all hope by anyone other than yourselves. :)
    aqImjw2.png
    Sherri
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    No I don't hate this game I just don't like having not enough people all the time ^^ You don't have right to tell someone to play different game. Your opinion is only legit....if there were enough people to make server completely full. I'd understand if you were only against mega server.

    I did not contextually tell you to "play a different game". I implied, if you despise the game so much then perhaps you should go play a different game, permanently; (if the shoe fits; wear it). My opinion is legit all of the time; as is every other opinion on this forum (let that sink in).

    There seems to be a communication problem here. ~ This thread is not about Hardmuscle's opinion, or your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or Hardmuscle's opinion of your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or anybody else's opinion of anyone's opinion. This is not an opinion party. :|

    This thread is a Nine-Year-Old (dead-on-arrival) debate. It remains open (as opposed to locked) only as a place to merge its own restoration in to (each time it's restored by someone who can't comprehend no). If there was only 1 channel on Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi (or you weren't playing when you know the USA is asleep for the most part), there'd be more than enough people to serve you; and yes yes, I am aware that the game is open to more than just the USA, but this does not change the fact that the servers are in the USA. I say "serve you" because, the level of thought (or lack of it) being applied here is assuming, 'others must be here to cater for everyone else'.. and that is not the case. You are basing your entire "judgement" on only the visible population (each and every time you make the judgement) and not once acknowledging those who aren't being included (accounted for; even rightfully), due to being offline for any length of time (be it 5 years, 5 months, 5 weeks, 5 days, or 5 minutes).

    You and this cult (the server-merge-groupies) can't exactly say, "a user's non-presence around you (when you deem they must be present to serve you, on the spot) is indicative of inactivity warranting a merge of servers"; let alone a loss of all hope by anyone other than yourselves. :)
    aqImjw2.png

    Woah, don't put words in my mouth. I've played this game since 2008. I don't despise it, quite the opposite in fact. It's probably my all-time favorite game. I have so many amazing memories on this game, I love it.

    I just don't think it's in a good state right now, and I want it to be the best it can be. I have never once said I dislike it.
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 11, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    No I don't hate this game I just don't like having not enough people all the time ^^ You don't have right to tell someone to play different game. Your opinion is only legit....if there were enough people to make server completely full. I'd understand if you were only against mega server.

    I did not contextually tell you to "play a different game". I implied, if you despise the game so much then perhaps you should go play a different game, permanently; (if the shoe fits; wear it). My opinion is legit all of the time; as is every other opinion on this forum (let that sink in).

    There seems to be a communication problem here. ~ This thread is not about Hardmuscle's opinion, or your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or Hardmuscle's opinion of your opinion of Hardmuscle's opinion, or anybody else's opinion of anyone's opinion. This is not an opinion party. :|

    This thread is a Nine-Year-Old (dead-on-arrival) debate. It remains open (as opposed to locked) only as a place to merge its own restoration in to (each time it's restored by someone who can't comprehend no). If there was only 1 channel on Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi (or you weren't playing when you know the USA is asleep for the most part), there'd be more than enough people to serve you; and yes yes, I am aware that the game is open to more than just the USA, but this does not change the fact that the servers are in the USA. I say "serve you" because, the level of thought (or lack of it) being applied here is assuming, 'others must be here to cater for everyone else'.. and that is not the case. You are basing your entire "judgement" on only the visible population (each and every time you make the judgement) and not once acknowledging those who aren't being included (accounted for; even rightfully), due to being offline for any length of time (be it 5 years, 5 months, 5 weeks, 5 days, or 5 minutes).

    You and this cult (the server-merge-groupies) can't exactly say, "a user's non-presence around you (when you deem they must be present to serve you, on the spot) is indicative of inactivity warranting a merge of servers"; let alone a loss of all hope by anyone other than yourselves. :)
    9 year old topic, not same situation and population. You seem like only one stuck in 2008~2009.


    forum
    noun
    plural noun: forums
    1.
    a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.


    You assumed that I hate the game, even after I said I don't.

    Other people aren't here to serve or cater for others. However, this is MMO that certainly needs party play at some point- and gives penalty for playing solo. They made this game that people 'require' other people to enjoy contents. Therefore large playerbase is desirable because it helps to find people with same interest.
    That certain time period when server feels active does exist- but it's not that long. For having players from various time zone, various life style (not everyone lives same), this feels very limited. I know game server is in North America, but it does not mean that they shouldn't care for others. That's why people are so angry with Watermelon event.
    If those 'offline players' you are mentioning plays enough to count in 'visible userbase- (regardless of whether 'I' see them or not)' yes they are contributing in 'active players meter'. If they don't, I don't know why you are caring so much for those who 'quit' and probably not come back for god knows when- whether it be now,tomorrow, a week from now, a month, a year, or forever. The one who plays matters.

    And no, channel merge will massively harm playerbase and bring no good at all;
    1. There aren't barely any players to gather from other channels.
    2. Lack of farming/training place
    3. Sale of daily limited item from npcs (Ducat shop, Cooking dungeon pass, etc)
    4. Dragons and field bosses - they only spawn one in one channel. You're asking those servers to have one dragon each per day.
    5. Some people like playing in other channels because they like playing solo/ less lag/ training skills etc. If they wanted people to play with they'd switch to busiest channel. Merging channels will just force bring those who don't want other people. Not to even mention anger and frustration generated from lack of space....
    6. When channel crash happens, people have option to change channel and play the game. If there's only one channel per server, they don't have option to cc.
    7. Changing channel solves most of the glitches. (Fighter glitch, Location glitch, Npc glitch, Dressing room glitch)
    People would have to log off if they didn't have option to cc.

    Obviously merging all channels to 1 would bring all these problems + possibly more.

    kapapa
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,300
    Posts: 2,088
    Member
    edited August 11, 2017
    Well, let's not get rid of channels! Besides, I need to CC when I want a specific SM Daily and I get the opposite of what I wanted.
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    What kind of internet/computer do you have if you can barely handle that....?

    Aw, I'm so sorry I don't have a good computer/internet like you, princess. :/
    Hardmuscle