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Polearms (Halberd)

VasumatiVasumati
Mabinogi Rep: 995
Posts: 23
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
Why have they never added polearms to the game. The game started off as a hardcore fantasy MMO, but pretty grounded for the most part. Polearms where probably the most common weapon on the medieval battlefield, next to spears. Believe it or not, swords where not that common. Yet all we have is swords, blunts and axes. Lances do not really count as polearms, they are specifically meant for horseback combat, and the way they function in the game is just weird.

There actually is ONE pole weapon in the game, and that is an enemy only weapon. The shadow fighter uses a polearm; the bardice. I'm suprised that after all these years we still haven't seen a single polearm to use. It would be great if there was a Polearm and polearm mastery as well. They would function off of all the normal combat skills, though slightly differently. You would have an extended attack range on all of your moves (like lances), but you would still be able to attack if an enemy was too close to you; the damage however would be cut in half, as you are only striking them with the shaft, rather than the head of the weapon. I'll go through all the skills an create ideas on how they would differ from the current weapons.

Here's an idea for a Halberd:

Halberd Mastery: Increases min and max attack, balance, gives some armour pierce, increases chance for bleed on charge. At r1, hitting an enemy with the shaft of the weapon lets you do 75% damage rather than only 50%. Using 'Master of Halberds' title allows you to get up to 85% with shaft hits.
Combat Mastery (basic attacks): Normal 4 hit weapon. the first two attacks are side swipes from left, then to the right, following that up with an overhead, and finally ending with a stab from the weapon. If you where to N+1, you would perform another stab. The first two sweeping attacks hit multiple enemies, so think carefully before finishing the string!
Assault Slash: rather than jump to the target, you have to be next to them. You grip your weapon in a reverse grip and thrust the head of the weapon straight into the enemy. To compensate for having to be next to the enemy to perform the skill, the damage is increased by quite alot. Pairs well with sweep.
Charge: charge CAN be used with this weapon, but you run at only at elf running speed, and you only go half the distance of regular charge. For giants, they run at normal charge speed and normal charge distance. Rather than colliding with the enemy, you stop before them and thrust your weapon into them. Think of this as basically a spear charge, or the stinger attack from Devil May Cry (but with your character actually running not flying through the air). Stuns the enemy as charge normally does, while also having a chance to apply bleed. (due to the weapon having a sharp pointy spike on it's head.)
Counterattack: The animation is your character hopping backwards to dodge the attack, then they hold the weapon horizontially and PUSH the enemy away. Rather than the enemy being sent flying backwards, they slide back like as if you had just finished a basic attack string. This allows you to follow up with another attack as the polearm has extended range. Deals only half damage, as you are using the shaft to strike the enemy and not the head.
Defense: Functions as normal. Block an enemy attack by using the shaft of the weapon.
Final Hit/Final strike: This weapon is a two handed weapon and functions as any other two handed weapon.
Smash: The animation has your character jab the enemy with the butt end of the weapon to stun them, then they prepare a giant 'Home Run' Swing and send the enemy flying. Sends enemies further away than normal smash. Chance to cause enemies to get def. and prot. debuff, jsut like axe smashes. (due to the weapon having an axe on it's front side.)
Windmill: Character spins the weapon in a circle above their head. Uses a higher range than normal windmill (unless you are at r1 windmill, the range will be the same to keep it balanced).
Bash: Functions as normal.

The rest of the skills are skills that are not affected by weapons and they would just function as normal.
I however would like to create a unique skill to them: sweep. Sweep the enemies legs, causing them to fall down. The enemy must be at max range to perform the skill. It does minimal damage, it's mostly just for crowd control or to let another player follow up with something. Pairs well with assault slash.

To make up for the fact that they have an extended range, but not a minimum range (which makes it sound like "hey why should i even use any othe weapon?!") They will have only 'medium' damage, basically that of a one handed axe; despite being counted as a two handed weapon. Keep in mind that at normal range, they only do half damage; as you would striking the enemy with the shaft of the weapon rather than the head.

This could be a great weapon, and a fun new way to play melee.

Comments

  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 23
    Member
    800px-Halberdier-corps.jpg
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 23
    Member
    as far as i'm aware, no NPC's use charge as an attack, but it would be interesting if; you where to use counter attack against an emy trying to charge you; instead of the didge pushback, you plant the base of the weapon into the ground and hold it foward, basically having the enemy skewer themselves on the tip and causing them to bleed :)
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 23
    Member
    So an example of some combos:
    attack x3 (4 if you know how to N+1) into a sweep followed up by assault slash
    counter attack ino sweep into assault slash
    counter attack into attack into smash
    counter into windmill into smash

    i'm sure there's more but i think you get the idea. It's main staple wil be the sweep + stab (assault slash) combo.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,980
    Posts: 3,257
    Member
    edited January 11
    In the real world polearms were used by formations rather than in melee combat. Once the formation lost cohesiveness the soldiers would break out swords. That being said we have this anyway in Mabinogi via lance combat. What Mabinogi is calling a lance aside and that as is would be even worse for melee combat let alone wielding at all, they could introduce a Halberd as a kind of lance, but make it one that elves can wield.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,760
    Posts: 7,492
    Member
    edited January 13
    Lances and warhammers are technically polearms. The game's design of a warhammer is a shortened halberd.

    Generally, polearms are used for defense rather than offense and used to stop the momentum of an enemy charge, like against mounted opponents.

    Seldom are there charges from the enemy in the game as are the limited varieties of mounted enemies, so that really takes away a key purpose of polearms.

    As for offense, I think there will be some difficulty implementing skills for a general range of polearms. For example, spears are generally used for stabbing while a halberd has a variety of uses, pull and hook, stab, chop.
    Helsa wrote: »
    In the real world polearms were used by formations rather than in melee combat. Once the formation lost cohesiveness the soldiers would break out swords. That being said we have this anyway in Mabinogi via lance combat. What Mabinogi is calling a lance aside and that as is would be even worse for melee combat let alone wielding at all, they could introduce a Halberd as a kind of lance, but make it one that elves can wield.

    There were still those who had specialized training to use polearms in loose close combat also. But generally, polearms were used for formation masses as you stated.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,980
    Posts: 3,257
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    . . . warhammers are technically polearms . . .

    There were long handled warhammers used by footsoldiers to dismount riders. Because they were very long they could be labled as "Polearms" but they weren't really polearms in the same sense. In the battlefield sense, pole arms are long and pointy things used by tightly packed formations of men to discourage shock action, particularly by cavalry.

    But when one thinks of a warhammer, it's a much shorter weapon similar in length to a sword. These weapons were used by footsoldiers so that they could do something useful against men in armour.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,760
    Posts: 7,492
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    . . . warhammers are technically polearms . . .

    There were long handled warhammers used by footsoldiers to dismount riders. Because they were very long they could be labled as "Polearms" but they weren't really polearms in the same sense. In the battlefield sense, pole arms are long and pointy things used by tightly packed formations of men to discourage shock action, particularly by cavalry.

    But when one thinks of a warhammer, it's a much shorter weapon similar in length to a sword. These weapons were used by footsoldiers so that they could do something useful against men in armour.

    Valid point. Actual warhammers would look more like a hammer though and we a shock weapon. But in any case, various small arms can be remodeled into a pole to convert to a pole arm.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,980
    Posts: 3,257
    Member
    edited January 14
    Helsa wrote: »
    . . . warhammers are technically polearms . . .

    There were long handled warhammers used by footsoldiers to dismount riders. Because they were very long they could be labled as "Polearms" but they weren't really polearms in the same sense. In the battlefield sense, pole arms are long and pointy things used by tightly packed formations of men to discourage shock action, particularly by cavalry.

    But when one thinks of a warhammer, it's a much shorter weapon similar in length to a sword. These weapons were used by footsoldiers so that they could do something useful against men in armour.

    Valid point. Actual warhammers would look more like a hammer though and we a shock weapon. But in any case, various small arms can be remodeled into a pole to convert to a pole arm.

    I'm surprised that @Blissfulkill hasn't yet chimed in with a pun about poles and arms, lengths of weapons, and hammerin' and such.
    Kensamaofmari
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,760
    Posts: 7,492
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    edited January 14
    @Vasumati I'm interested to see if you can come up with any skill sets that would work under "spear mastery."
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,980
    Posts: 3,257
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    @Vasumati I'm interested to see if you can come up with any skill sets that would work under "spear mastery."

    Isn't that called throwing attack?
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,760
    Posts: 7,492
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    Helsa wrote: »
    @Vasumati I'm interested to see if you can come up with any skill sets that would work under "spear mastery."

    Isn't that called throwing attack?

    ?