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About G24 Crom Dragon and now.

Comments

  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,420
    Posts: 1,142
    Member
    The world on fire XD
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,000
    Posts: 339
    Member
    There's no guarantee that any significant number of people with the skills and motivation would choose to branch off. Most-likely, when people are unsatisfied, they will usually move onto some other game-title (Mabinogi still gets mentioned on some of those MMO-reviews You-Tube channels and/or web-sites who point out that, despite some people in the MMORPG-community saying that the MMORPG-genre is dying off, MMORPGs are still going on strong and even rebounding in 2020 with numerous highly anticipated releases that were mentioned on some of the more recent videos from the MMOBytes channel who sometimes even gets contacted directly from MMORPG-developers/publishers for feedback/review/etc., the highest-anticipated title that Western-audiences have been waiting for being PSO2, according to the reviwer).

    Whilst $$$ does speak the most loudly, developers (and I mean this in terms of coders and programmers) are actually (usually) not the main ones in charge of the direction of any commercialized game-title, especially if it is part of a «corporate» structure. Anybody who's ever worked for a «corporation» before ought to know that in the tech-associated industries there tends to be a rather hierarchy of what one can and cannot do and what is allowed and not allowed to do, even if you had the skills and wanted to do it, you typically needed to get «approval» from the «higher-ups» before you could even attempt to proceed or risk getting «policy violation-strikes» and potentially giving them grounds to terminate your «relationship» with them (usually defined as a/n «employer-employee» relationship) if they so ever eventually decide.

    The KR Region has both a Full-Server (정식 서버) as well as a Test-Server (테스트 서버). Their Forum-Sections for the «Full» Server gets more forum-posts than the Test-Server section of course, full of their own versions of drama on their forums of course, and quoting one of the responses that one of them posted to a thread...: «소오름.....» (this is either «so-up» or «so-oleum» depending on who/what's doing the translation... meaning... «creepy» ?). Pro-Tip : Korean-language learning (and translation) apps can be installed onto your mobile-device ! =D

    I has my own version of Cromm-Cruach (from browser-game made for, ahem, perverts)...fire is an appropriate element.
    5mRPT30.jpg
    7jjbOWE.jpg
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,420
    Posts: 1,142
    Member
    What a cute Crom...

    Compared to a trash like Crom in Mabi XD
  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,160
    Posts: 226
    Member
    Sometimes I wish Mabinogi was half as difficult as the forums believe it is, sounds pretty enjoyable.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    (and translation) apps
    그만
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,580
    Posts: 2,733
    Member
    edited February 24
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish Mabinogi was half as difficult as the forums believe it is, sounds pretty enjoyable.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    (and translation) apps
    그만

    In all honesty, I don't think anyone here really likes dragons as they are now. Part of the reason is that black and white are just sandbags in the same vein as Lakoria and Kraken from Vindictus, or they spammed flight much too often when otherwise, they'd be minced meat, alongside moving quickly when most of them straight up disabled pets.

    A monster or mob can be easily doable, but gosh darn me if I wasn't going to call some things mechanically bad because well...they are. If a monster can live 50% longer purely out of an invincibility move and nothing else, that's mechanically bad. It's artificial length.

    As a whole, I'd say Mabinogi's current combat system isn't as thoughtful as you or anyone else likes to think it is, or actually, the developers don't try to meaningfully encourage us to utilize what we have.

    If it isn't the monsters, it's the skills and powercreep.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,885
    Posts: 499
    Member
    edited February 24
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones. The black moon followers were a non-issue, aside from confusing the player at the start of the fight and making it seem like it was about the portals instead of the dragon. I've been soloing and avoiding aggro for as long as this game's been around, and these guys won't bother you as long as you leave them to the NPCs or give them wide berth.

    The boss strikes me as one of those MMO bosses that are intended to be ridiculously hard if you don't have a group with you, but thankfully not impossible. He concentrates his aggro on a single person letting others pew pew pew from a distance. If you go solo, he's only got one place to concentrate his aggro...you. And he will run over you constantly over and over again.

    My experience is I was doing decent damage to him despite the aggro as long as I had ladeca up. Once it went down (and I had him about 3/4 dead at that point), I spent a good 20 minutes getting run over before being able to damage him at a decent rate again. (Final shot is good, but doesn't last very long in comparison and was hard to keep up while getting run over.) Then Ladeca and Exploit Weakness came back up and he went down pretty quick. I think some of those extreme endgame players probably could have soloed him before the skills in question went down, using less nao stones, but that's just my guess.

    (Edit: Embarrassing typo is embarrassing.)

    That said...the random petrification made this boss's tactics kinda...cheap? I imagine Nexon just figured that most players have a stash of stones from various events. (Which they'd be right, but it was still pretty annoying...)

    I'm actually kinda grateful that the fight did *not* require a group as long as you were properly geared/supplied. Groups in MMOs in most situations annoy me, because it feels like you're always trying to dodge gear snobs and other elitist jerks when all I want to do is enjoy the story and chat with others while I do it.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,190
    Posts: 849
    Member
    edited February 24
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish Mabinogi was half as difficult as the forums believe it is, sounds pretty enjoyable.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    (and translation) apps
    그만

    Its bad mechanics.

    Not "hard". Just bad mechanics.

    Although, nothing seems to be "bad mechanics" to you.
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones. The black moon followers were a non-issue, aside from confusing the player at the start of the fight and making it seem like it was about the portals instead of the dragon. I've been soloing and avoiding aggro for as long as this game's been around, and these guys won't bother you as long as you leave them to the NPCs or give them wide berth.

    The boss strikes me as one of those MMO bosses that are intended to be ridiculously hard if you don't have a group with you, but thankfully not impossible. He concentrates his aggro on a single person letting others pew pew pew from a distance. If you go solo, he's only got one place to concentrate his aggro...you. And he will run over you constantly over and over again.

    My experience is I was doing decent damage to him despite the aggro as long as I had ladeca up. Once it went down (and I had him about 3/4 dead at that point), I spent a good 20 minutes getting run over before being able to damage him at a decent rate again. (Final shot is good, but doesn't last very long in comparison and was hard to keep up while getting run over.) Then Ladeca and Exploit Weakness came back up and he went down pretty quick. I think some of those extreme endgame players probably could have soloed him before the skills in question went down, using less ladeca stones, but that's just my guess.

    That said...the random petrification made this boss's tactics kinda...cheap? I imagine Nexon just figured that most players have a stash of stones from various events. (Which they'd be right, but it was still pretty annoying...)

    I'm actually kinda grateful that the fight did *not* require a group as long as you were properly geared/supplied. Groups in MMOs in most situations annoy me, because it feels like you're always trying to dodge gear snobs and other elitist jerks when all I want to do is enjoy the story and chat with others while I do it.

    The gear snobs are usually the ones who complain about how its not hard enough *cough cough*
    WolfsingerAlshianGretaKaga
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,000
    Posts: 339
    Member
    Anybody who wants «hard» should try winning against the StockFish Chess-Engine... without take-backs.
    Regarding «game-balance» or «class-balance» ...this is something that certain people are going to be dogmatic about, and not just any small percentage of any given population either, but is literally upheld like some sort of cult-belief that everything involving classes (or the equivalent of Mabinogi-talents) is always balanced no matter what, and their idea of «balance» seems to revolve around «what gear/equipment is available» to make up for any fundamental short-comings (literally to the point where a «crap» class/job/talent that does zero damage and is clearly imbalanced is somehow «balanced» as long as that ONE «end-game weapon» exists that allows said class/job/talent to be able to suddenly one-shot everything IF they somehow manage to be able to get ahold of said weapon... never-mind those things called «Catch 22s» or «Quandaries» or other ways of expressing that you need A in order to complete B but you also need B in order to do A).
    For things to truly be balanced, and they've changed the combat-system before so there's absolutely no reason they cannot do it again (random interjection : Make Summon Golem O-P again !), combat ought to be designed to be more chess-like in its complexity, even in one-on-one combat. Currently, who-ever has the highest DPS-gear wins, unless they're intentionally being careless on purpose (particularly in PvP; you could have excellent timing on when to counter/block your opponent's skills, but if they're end-game-geared, you will simply be unable to compete if you are not similarly geared). I have ideas which could potentially bring re-balance back into the game/combat-system, without necessarily needing to change the entire system itself, but the mobs/spawns/monsters would also need to be updated to reflect the potential solution(s)/challenge(s).

    After all, what «fun» is «beating up» on mobs/monsters/spawns/fomors/etc., whose «combat A.I.» are still mostly/largely limited to the Warrior/Archer/Mage archetypes, until you get into G20+...?; None of them use «Evasion» on your arrows/magic-bolts, none of them jump on top of you with Assault-Slash after you've been knocked down, none of them use «Fusion-Bolt» on you, and it seems that combat/balance has gone the way of «throw unreasonable swarms of spawns at you» rather than making the opponents higher-skilled and «smarter» than they once were... I am also going to give another hint, and that involves what is known as A.I. (Artificial-Intelligence), but not just any A.I., but self-learning A.I. Anybody who is familiar with the Arcade-versions of the Virtua-Fighter series and has ever played «Expert-Mode» on them should know what I am referring to (they eventually end up fighting very similarly to the highest-skilled human-players).
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish Mabinogi was half as difficult as the forums believe it is, sounds pretty enjoyable.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    (and translation) apps
    그만
    It's bad mechanics.
    Not "hard". Just bad mechanics.
    Although, nothing seems to be "bad mechanics" to you.
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones. The black moon followers were a non-issue, aside from confusing the player at the start of the fight and making it seem like it was about the portals instead of the dragon. I've been soloing and avoiding aggro for as long as this game's been around, and these guys won't bother you as long as you leave them to the NPCs or give them wide berth.

    The boss strikes me as one of those MMO bosses that are intended to be ridiculously hard if you don't have a group with you, but thankfully not impossible. He concentrates his aggro on a single person letting others pew pew pew from a distance. If you go solo, he's only got one place to concentrate his aggro...you. And he will run over you constantly over and over again.

    My experience is I was doing decent damage to him despite the aggro as long as I had ladeca up. Once it went down (and I had him about 3/4 dead at that point), I spent a good 20 minutes getting run over before being able to damage him at a decent rate again. (Final shot is good, but doesn't last very long in comparison and was hard to keep up while getting run over.) Then Ladeca and Exploit Weakness came back up and he went down pretty quick. I think some of those extreme endgame players probably could have soloed him before the skills in question went down, using less ladeca stones, but that's just my guess.

    That said...the random petrification made this boss's tactics kinda...cheap? I imagine Nexon just figured that most players have a stash of stones from various events. (Which they'd be right, but it was still pretty annoying...)

    I'm actually kinda grateful that the fight did *not* require a group as long as you were properly geared/supplied. Groups in MMOs in most situations annoy me, because it feels like you're always trying to dodge gear snobs and other elitist jerks when all I want to do is enjoy the story and chat with others while I do it.

    The gear snobs are usually the ones who complain about how its not hard enough *cough cough*
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,420
    Posts: 1,142
    Member
    Yea, Instead of just boosting enemies by making them have higher HP, Attack, Defense but instead given skills with more better AI or at least having enemies able to combo skills together like what a Player would:

    1~2 Normal attacks > Smash > Assault slash or 1~2 Normal attacks > Windmill > Assault slash > Smash.

    Player loads magic/Ranged attack > Enemy AI uses Evasion between 1~3 seconds on player loading those said skills.

    Instead of just boosting enemy HP/Attack/Defense so much make it so that Adv and above make enemy load skills faster like players.

    As for raid bosses, instead of dumb awful mechanics how about making it simple enough so that players with "Good eyes and reaction" can avoid getting hurt badly by powerful attacks that a very large enemy can do instead of having those attacks being too fast because it does not match Mabinogi's rhythm of combat. If a player use Defense skill on some large normal attacks have it so that Defense skill still have an effect but cause old school Mabinogi knockback (sliding back on your feet like being shoved) because that attack is too large for your character to handle it steadfast.

    This way "gearing" is optional to making gameplay easier and those who want challenge or to make it hard should avoid getting too strong.

    Just like Saitama from One Punch Man had said before "Its best you don't get strong, else you get bored." or something like that lol.

    I want to see more content for Life players, I am sure most players get burnt out from the continued combat content and want a little vacation from it all. Bring more Life updates or remake/revamps on old Life contents, that way Players will stick around longer instead of being "Did it all, Done it all, Peace out!" Make Life content relevant again! This time without adding abysmal RNG to discourage and LOATHE you for this Nexon.

    Make Mabinogi Great again because at this point your digging your own Grave with Mabinogi little at a time here.
    starkiller1286
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,190
    Posts: 849
    Member
    edited February 24
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Anybody who wants «hard» should try winning against the StockFish Chess-Engine... without take-backs.
    Regarding «game-balance» or «class-balance» ...this is something that certain people are going to be dogmatic about, and not just any small percentage of any given population either, but is literally upheld like some sort of cult-belief that everything involving classes (or the equivalent of Mabinogi-talents) is always balanced no matter what, and their idea of «balance» seems to revolve around «what gear/equipment is available» to make up for any fundamental short-comings (literally to the point where a «crap» class/job/talent that does zero damage and is clearly imbalanced is somehow «balanced» as long as that ONE «end-game weapon» exists that allows said class/job/talent to be able to suddenly one-shot everything IF they somehow manage to be able to get ahold of said weapon... never-mind those things called «Catch 22s» or «Quandaries» or other ways of expressing that you need A in order to complete B but you also need B in order to do A).
    For things to truly be balanced, and they've changed the combat-system before so there's absolutely no reason they cannot do it again (random interjection : Make Summon Golem O-P again !), combat ought to be designed to be more chess-like in its complexity, even in one-on-one combat. Currently, who-ever has the highest DPS-gear wins, unless they're intentionally being careless on purpose (particularly in PvP; you could have excellent timing on when to counter/block your opponent's skills, but if they're end-game-geared, you will simply be unable to compete if you are not similarly geared). I have ideas which could potentially bring re-balance back into the game/combat-system, without necessarily needing to change the entire system itself, but the mobs/spawns/monsters would also need to be updated to reflect the potential solution(s)/challenge(s).

    After all, what «fun» is «beating up» on mobs/monsters/spawns/fomors/etc., whose «combat A.I.» are still mostly/largely limited to the Warrior/Archer/Mage archetypes, until you get into G20+...?; None of them use «Evasion» on your arrows/magic-bolts, none of them jump on top of you with Assault-Slash after you've been knocked down, none of them use «Fusion-Bolt» on you, and it seems that combat/balance has gone the way of «throw unreasonable swarms of spawns at you» rather than making the opponents higher-skilled and «smarter» than they once were... I am also going to give another hint, and that involves what is known as A.I. (Artificial-Intelligence), but not just any A.I., but self-learning A.I. Anybody who is familiar with the Arcade-versions of the Virtua-Fighter series and has ever played «Expert-Mode» on them should know what I am referring to (they eventually end up fighting very similarly to the highest-skilled human-players).
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Sometimes I wish Mabinogi was half as difficult as the forums believe it is, sounds pretty enjoyable.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    (and translation) apps
    그만
    It's bad mechanics.
    Not "hard". Just bad mechanics.
    Although, nothing seems to be "bad mechanics" to you.
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones. The black moon followers were a non-issue, aside from confusing the player at the start of the fight and making it seem like it was about the portals instead of the dragon. I've been soloing and avoiding aggro for as long as this game's been around, and these guys won't bother you as long as you leave them to the NPCs or give them wide berth.

    The boss strikes me as one of those MMO bosses that are intended to be ridiculously hard if you don't have a group with you, but thankfully not impossible. He concentrates his aggro on a single person letting others pew pew pew from a distance. If you go solo, he's only got one place to concentrate his aggro...you. And he will run over you constantly over and over again.

    My experience is I was doing decent damage to him despite the aggro as long as I had ladeca up. Once it went down (and I had him about 3/4 dead at that point), I spent a good 20 minutes getting run over before being able to damage him at a decent rate again. (Final shot is good, but doesn't last very long in comparison and was hard to keep up while getting run over.) Then Ladeca and Exploit Weakness came back up and he went down pretty quick. I think some of those extreme endgame players probably could have soloed him before the skills in question went down, using less ladeca stones, but that's just my guess.

    That said...the random petrification made this boss's tactics kinda...cheap? I imagine Nexon just figured that most players have a stash of stones from various events. (Which they'd be right, but it was still pretty annoying...)

    I'm actually kinda grateful that the fight did *not* require a group as long as you were properly geared/supplied. Groups in MMOs in most situations annoy me, because it feels like you're always trying to dodge gear snobs and other elitist jerks when all I want to do is enjoy the story and chat with others while I do it.

    The gear snobs are usually the ones who complain about how its not hard enough *cough cough*

    Most enemies STILL don't realize that they can go around obstacles.

    Also, for that self-learning thing, is it kind of like the amiibo fighters from Smash Bros? The ones that can learn to adapt to your fighting style?
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,580
    Posts: 2,733
    Member
    edited February 24
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones.

    3q735x.jpg

    I regret nothing Policroma.
    AlshianRadiant DawnPlatinaKokiWolfsingerPolicromaroastedpig
  • ShadowamiShadowami
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,720
    Posts: 98
    Member
    I still think they should have put two dragons at that final, doing the same thing, instead of just 1.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,050
    Posts: 764
    Member
    Just let player bring party to deal with obnoxious boss fight.

    Devkitty can't nerf player damage unless they want to get sued for scamming.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,420
    Posts: 1,142
    Member
    edited February 24
    Ok so I checked the wiki rather if its true or not but apparently you can bring 3 other players with you to fight Crom which I guess can explain how "Unfair" the fight is with the random petrified debuffs. Still a trash battle but good to know that folks can seek help from other players.

    Now if only Nexon keeps up with the multiplayer O 3o

    Ya know, to encourage folks to social a little more xD
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,220
    Posts: 7,063
    Member
    edited February 25
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones.

    3q735x.jpg

    I regret nothing Policroma.

    5x solo, 2x duo helping Leinei. :smirk:

    I will admit that I did get pot poisoned though, but I was able to still dish out enough damage to defeat it within 15-20 minutes? Leinei can vouch. It didn't take long. :)

    Anyone who needs assistance with black moon cromm message me while I am online and I will help you out. I'd like to try my hand at it again not die at all. :D

    That constant random petrification is definitely hot garbage. The whole things was really REALLY designed badly. There is no real tactic or structure against the entire HOT GARBAGE of a battle. It's like some 12 year old designing a boss battle and decides the best way to provide a challenge to the players is to just troll and petrify them constantly. It really is an ANNOYING battle. I mean seriously, all you can do is just dps it much as you can when you can. There is no strategy in that HOT GARBAGE of a boss battle.

    It reminded me of the Ender Dragon from Minecraft, in fact I really believe that entire battle was modeled off of that and made 10x more annoying. LameAF.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 43,060
    Posts: 6,257
    Member
    edited February 25
    Crims wrote: »
    Policroma wrote: »
    I'm a level 18k elf and I "only" used 35 stones.

    3q735x.jpg

    I regret nothing Policroma.

    5x solo, 2x duo helping Leinei. :smirk:

    I will admit that I did get pot poisoned though, but I was able to still dish out enough damage to defeat it within 15-20 minutes? Leinei can vouch. It didn't take long. :)

    Anyone who needs assistance with black moon cromm message me while I am online and I will help you out. I'd like to try my hand at it again not die at all. :D

    That constant random petrification is definitely hot garbage. The whole things was really REALLY designed badly. There is no real tactic or structure against the entire HOT GARBAGE of a battle. It's like some 12 year old designing a boss battle and decides the best way to provide a challenge to the players is to just troll and petrify them constantly. It really is an ANNOYING battle. I mean seriously, all you can do is just dps it much as you can when you can. There is no strategy in that HOT GARBAGE of a boss battle.

    It reminded me of the Ender Dragon from Minecraft, in fact I really believe that entire battle was modeled off of that and made 10x more annoying. LameAF.

    Honestly, Ender Dragon attacks can be at least avoided with some good Minecraft skills. By using water bucket and good timing, you can avoid most damage from falling.
    But petrification sounds too impossible to avoid...
    Wolfsinger
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,190
    Posts: 849
    Member
    edited February 25
    Shadowami wrote: »
    I still think they should have put two dragons at that final, doing the same thing, instead of just 1.

    Ok. That'll apply only to you.

    And if you die, you lose everything you own.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,000
    Posts: 339
    Member
    edited February 25
    That actually sounds like an even better self-learning A.I. if it's taking down notes specifically to counter-attack specifically against you.
    Also, for that self-learning thing, is it kind of like the amiibo fighters from Smash Bros? The ones that can learn to adapt to your fighting style?
    Alshian wrote: »
    What a cute Crom...
    They also have their version of Neamhain, but, for some reason, have her set as a Wind-Element character, rather than Light-Element, and as a(n) SR rather than a(s) SSR. Then again some characters have more than one version and thus different Elements. Perhaps there might be a future-version of her as a Light-Element SSR (she definitely deserves to have SSR-status [and SSR-power/strength/abilities/etc] in my opinion).
    eYt1ZD2.jpg9mk3Fwu.jpg
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 43,060
    Posts: 6,257
    Member
    Obligatory panty shot. Nice.
    Habimaru
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,220
    Posts: 7,063
    Member
    Those panties are flesh colored. Lol.