[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!
Comments
And they're still hyperinflated.
I actually really want the items from gacha to have a better drop rate but sadly... it doesn't stop certain users from trying to manipulate the market by doing bulk purchase of the same items and making them raise in price due to fake c/o or by just 'manipulating' the supplies.
I like that idea. Just need to tweak it abit 4 mabi.
Guilt by association?
You’re grasping at straws.
Shills are proxies that bid for the seller. But it does not follow that therefore all proxies who bid for the seller are shills. Bidding up to the reserve price is accepted practice because there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn’t be. There is no deception involved. The seller is simply bidding up to their value like the buyer is bidding up to their value.
You also misrepresent my position. I favored second price sealed bid auctions where speaking the truth actually is the best policy as opposed to paying lip service to speaking the truth while in truth practicing deception.
You emphasize fake as if the means of deception really mattered. The only thing I have to prove to establish a deceptive trade act is that I would not have made the trade if I had known the truth. Deception is deception. Deception by omission rather than deception by faking doesn’t give you the moral high ground. The buyer is not speaking the truth any more than the seller is.
Suppose the seller is willing to accept 10m and the buyer is willing to pay 100m. Any price between 10m and 100m is fair. To make a case for unfair trade practices you’d have to prove that the seller’s fake counteroffer resulted in the buyer paying more than 100m. It is not enough to simply argue that it was a fake counteroffer.
Let’s look at it in a different context.
Suppose I use a fake counteroffer to get a prospective employer to give me a significantly better deal. The gamble pays off. I land the job. Later the employer discovers the counteroffer was faked. What’s he going to say? Clearly I was worth more to him than he let on. He was trying to lowball me. I just beat him at his own game.
Over 85% of buyers will try to lowball on their initial offer. If not fake counteroffers, what do you propose sellers do to counter lowball offers? Nothing. You just want to be able to lowball sellers with impunity.
Your perfect world is one where the powerful are a privileged class. Those with power can leverage it to force hardball negotiators into revealing the truth and thus get paid what they are actually worth. Those without power have no leverage and get paid only a fraction of what they are worth. F*** that.
Well I got 2 cents 4 starters...
>Starting offer
>Auto win
>Highest bid in between S/O & A.W. will get the item after a reasonable time(1 hr/5 hr/1 day/etc) has passed.
Tho it requires people to grow a back bone and be honest tho...
Stupid thought.... Instead of fake auctions, why not just post a desired price and haggle with the potential buyer? Yes, people do lowball on initial offers, but if they are serious they will be willing to negotiate. And if someone comes along willing to pay your autowin? Apologize to the haggler and move on with your life. You may even gain TWO repeat customers.
Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.
Only 20%?
You're talking about two different things.
Absinthe was explaining how contemporary auction systems work and why sellers do what they do in an auction environment.
You're right in a way, though; Mabi's market would be arguably easier to navigate if buyers listed even ballpark prices and sellers knew what they wanted to pay before they offered.
But that's not the case, most of the time.
Mabi has no set market values, and no set marketing system. Often, people have no solid idea of what things are worth. Without any sort of standardized structure, game economies usually lean towards a player-based haggle or auction-based common use system.
All of these problems would be solved even with a bare-bones market system, but for some reason Nexon hates economics.
It is one of the problems of having a completely free market economy with 0.001% regulation.
Which are the fees to set up shop, limits on shop earnings per shop.
Other than that, the player economy is decided by players and there is no AI economy to monitor supply and demand.
Seriously, most people who do that are a whole other level of greed. (Keyword; most)
I also hate when people have to put 'paying well' on what they're buying.
That isn't suspicious at all. >.>
Or they are trying to be a special snowflake.
Just tell me the amount you wanna purchase it for. -_-
If you don't know how much it's worth, there is NMP(rice)
Or better yet so you don't get ripped off,.. idk.. ask people..? research? but they might lie too..
o _o im sorry idk anymore
what is economy
Something something dye ampoules.
This is why honesty is the best policy.
Examples
I've been given Merlin's Shyllien Mana Knuckles,
I've given away a Portia's Dress,
I've sold a REGULAR REFORGE for 600k and sold Firewood for 50k/stack because the purchasers offered those amounts,
I've bought crafting mats and gear for inflated prices off of friends because they needed the gold,
I was targeted when I tried selling a Luxurious Evening Dress(?) because people thought I didn't have one and was jacking up the price (multiple people went so far as to say they 'knew who my main was' (this is my main)),
I've had people ask for an a/w and make ludicrous c/os that I just ignore because there's no way someone's being legit about 20m for a reindeer robe...
I've replied to a person, been invited to homestead, and then told the person beside me in the HS 'just beat my offer, so [I'll] have to raise mine' (when it was just a flat-out asking price),
I've had people 'offer' 1/3rd of my asking price when I mention it (You ain't getting HW for 10k from me, mate),
and of course there's all the aforementioned shenanigans on the server with c/os and a/ws and whatnot.
Am I missing anything else? Has anyone ever had just straight across trades without shenanigans?
Content
Like, the insanity of this game's player market never ends. The first four examples don't much matter I reckon since it's mutually agreed upon (in some cases ridiculously), but the others seem to mostly be a combination of greed and ease.
I'd like to see the auction system work, some sort of NX>Gold system actually put into place, customer and purchaser accountability, and half a million other features incorporated, but unless Nexon does it themselves, how could it happen? Create an enormous guild to try and 'regulate' or 'rationalize' the economy? Has that even been tried? And really the opportunity for corruption would be ludicrous... and the only other alternative I can think of is some sort of reverse witch hunt where everyone ignores those deemed to not be 'legit'. Honesty is in short supply IRL too, it's no surprise that it's sometimes hard to take people seriously in-game.
Man, I'm not saying the system DOESN'T work, but I honestly don't think they could make it worse by trying to fix it...
Edit: YOOOoooooo the hyphen lines now actually make lines that's sweet.
Anyone wanna fill me in on why we can't have user-gen pics anymore?
Backbone has nothing to do with it,. Auctions are strategy games. The winner is the one with the best strategy. There are truthful auctions and there are non-truthful auctions. I favor a truthful auction (second price sealed bid auction). You favor a non-truthful auction (ascending bid auction) and talk about honesty, No amount of talk is going to cause people to abandon a winning strategy or to adopt a losing strategy. In this case we could expect the buyer to lowball and the employee to try to optimize her reserve price to maximize revenue. Again, neither is speaking the truth about their value. It is just one deception trying to counter another.
Second Price Sealed Bid Auctions:
(1) Everyone submits a sealed bid. (Sellers bid their reserve price.)
(2) The bids are opened simultaneously at the allotted time.
(3) The win goes to the highest bidder who pays the second highest bid.
The results are 1 gold less than an ascending bid auction played right and without any of the shady business. That means the win goes to the one who values it the most, and not to the best player, the best deceiver, or the best cheat.
@Sherri
Reciprocity: the practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit.
Ecological efficiency is my primary objective when pricing. I tend to think of it in terms of waste management. One girl’s trash is another’s treasure. Treasure would be anything we find useful or desirable. Everything else is trash. I love dumping my trash on others. And given a choice between two people who value the same trash, it should be dumped on the person who values it the most (maximizing value).
Barter or market exchange is what we do with people we can’t or don’t trust to reciprocate. We expect immediate payback. In market exchange money is the measure of value. I give you goods worth 100m to you and you give me 100m so I can buy goods worth 100m to me. That’s 200m in trash converted into treasure and a 50/50 split. This is called balanced or symmetric reciprocity .
Let’s see what happens if I give you the best deal I can. It is trash to me, so my value is at most zero. If we trade at my value, then I give you goods worth 100m to you and you give me at most nothing back. This is called negative reciprocity . The benefits to you are clear. But how do I benefit from this exchange? What makes you special, snowflake?
Haggler, Thief, Hard Bargainer, etc: a person who attempts to get something for nothing with impunity
Freeloader: a person who takes advantage of another’s generosity without giving anything in return.
Gift exchange is what we do with people we can and do trust to reciprocate. We do not expect immediate payback. As it is I’m not currently in the market for gold. So I have absolutely no problem giving 100m worth of goods to someone I know to be warm, friendly, and generous towards others. I don’t pretend to do this out of the goodness of my heart. I just hate waste and love trash receptacles that pay forward and make my world a better place. This is called generalized reciprocity .
That's not any of the above terms. That's fraud.
[video]