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Dan tests are unbalanced and unfair

BlortadBlortad
Mabinogi Rep: 2,190
Posts: 250
Member
in General Chat
Never before has it looked more like an update wasn't even tested before release then with this one. Some of the tests for lack-luster skills like windmill and magnum shot are nearly impossible to complete while others for extremely useful skills like Crisis are so easy its absurd. If they weren't stupid RP missions, it wouldn't be a problem because if you couldn't pass a test you could just come back when you get stronger, but that's not the case. Windmill and Magnum shot particularly are impossible to complete short of getting extremely lucky with crits and enemy placement. The enemies have WAY too much hp to be able to reasonably hit the required goal with the skills and stats you are given for the test under any conditions short of an extreme case of freak chance. I can't imagine how people without top notch internet connections must feel, since them being near impossible as it is means any lag at all will result in a guaranteed fail, and on top of that because they decided it would be funny to make us get SS rank, its possible to "pass" but still fail, resulting in an entire day being wasted. These tests are so unbelievably unbalanced that I am thoroughly convinced that most or all of them weren't even tested at all past absolute bare bones functionality. Case in point, Smash. Every test has a special bonus you can get by doing a specific thing. Shooting Rush, for example, wants you to stand in a specific spot to refresh the skills cooldown. Windmill and Smash share the same bonus as they are both melee skills, which is refreshing their cooldown when a set number of enemies has been killed. The problem, as anyone who has ever used smash before will tell you, is that smash doesn't even have a cooldown. It does, but the cooldown for it is totally pointless and unnecessary as it is is shorter then the duration of the animation for the skill and you can't load another smash in the middle of the animation for an ongoing smash. This means that even if you happen to get a cooldown reset for smash when you are right next to another target, you can't use smash again on that target until the cooldown that was just pointlessly reset would have finished anyways. The bonus for smash is completely, 100% useless in every conceivable way, so unlike every single other danable skill, smash has no bonus at all because they didn't bother to even so much as think for more then 5 whole seconds about how smash works before arbitrarily throwing together these half-assed dan tests. I would wager the only ones that they even bothered to balance at all are the skills that previously had no dan tests at all, the ones they had to make from scratch like Crisis, which is why all those ones are reasonable and tests for everything that was already danable were left mostly alone and are now nearly impossible because of it.
AngelsamaGrimreaper97VimiBlissfulkill

Comments

  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,315
    Posts: 485
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    Wall of text... ok.

    For me, it seems balanced and fair enough.
  • Clovis15Clovis15
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,780
    Posts: 213
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    edited August 23, 2017
    I already have Dan 1 Assault Slash, Dan 1 Flash Launcher, Dan 1 Counter Attack, and Dan 1 Combat Mastery, so I'm not personally seeing the problem with these tests. A few of them did take me a few tries before I figured out the trick, and after that they were usually much easier. The goal here is to play smarter, so sometimes you need to change up your tactics. Also, the rules given for counter-attack's test neglect to mention how you'll get the most points for wind-milling a counter-attacking enemy (which is super-important for actually passing).

    I've already seen others successfully Dan their way through Smash, but I think I'll do it myself today now as well just to see if I have any problems (I was originally aiming to first go for Fireball and Thunder next).

    By the way, if you already have Smash at Dan 1 - which it sounds like you might - then you need to realize that later ranks take more than one success In order to unlock the graduation ceremony. As such your thoughts that they stole from you an SS might actually be the game functioning correctly, since later Dan ranks need more than one successful testing (unlike Dan 1).
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
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    There's no balance in the effort-gains correlation between combat and life skills at all. A lot of tets are ludicrously hard even on the first dan, some are very easy, but second and third dan can be hell on earth for some. Mag 3 is outright impossible for me with my european ping even if the stars did align for it to work perfectly. What you've done are probably all of the easiest dans, plus the very first rank of it, @Clovis15 . I do agree that this needs some serious rebalancing. The system's pretty broken.
  • BlortadBlortad
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,190
    Posts: 250
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    Clovis, im not using smash as an example of one that's hard, im using it as an example of how little thought they put into making these things, they didn't even give smash a bonus that actually works in any context. The examples of ones that are hard are windmill and, primarily, Magnum Shot for Dan 3, which as siodhan confirmed, is completely impossible unless you have flawless ping, which nearly nobody does. There is so little margin for error for dan 3 mag that missing more then a small handfull of times will result in less then SS rank, which will eat up your attempt for the day while at the same time giving you no progress. On top of that you NEED to get a minimum crit quota to stand a chance. In extremely stark contrast, dan 3 crisis is so easy its dumbfounding. They didnt even bother to make sure these tests were actually of a reasonable difficulty before launching this half-baked piece of crap or things like crisis would be harder and things like mag and windmill wouldn't be almost completely impossible. Crisis is by far the more useful skill, so it should stand to reason that the tests for the far less useful mag and wm should be easier to complete, but instead they are the hardest by an enormous margin. Dan 1 is easy on everything except maybe mag because you only need A rank or better, but dan 3 requires SS, which is 12k points. If they would just quit with he stupid rp mission nonsense for dan tests and let me use MY gear and stats instead of arbitrary gear and stats that are clearly inadequate for the task at hand, this level of difficulty might be somewhat justified aside from the fact that then crisis and other easy ones would be even easier then they already are. Talk about yet another slap in the face to elves too, since the archery skills, the ones most useful for elves, are the hardest to train to the point of literal impossibility for many people, such as anyone in Europe. The easiest fix for this would just be to nerf the hp of the enemies in the combat talent dan tests so you actually stand a chance without freakishly good luck.
    Grimreaper97
  • FalmostaFalmosta
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,140
    Posts: 64
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    I found fire ball to be a bit of a challenge because of the mobs can move out of the way but I was able to get it to Dan 3. I am not looking forward to finishing Dan 3 of ICe bolt because the boss can't be knocked back and will be hard to kill. Not to mention that Fusion bolt doesn't count Ice even though the test gives you Fusion bolt.... which honestly could have been danable.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,494
    Member
    edited August 23, 2017
    There are gimmicks to each test. Dan tests more than just the usage of that skill it also tests ur smarts.

    But yea I do agree that Rng gimmicks like needing crit is stupid on the dev's part.
    TheNyanCatImaizumiBlissfulkill
  • BlortadBlortad
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,190
    Posts: 250
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    What bugs me the most is all the new skills that had no Dan ranks before, like Shooting Rush and Crisis, are all fairly simple, even to get Dan 3. The ones they had to make from scratch are good, but they left all the ones they didn't have to make new tests for as the same old horrible nonsense. Its like they had a difficulty balance in mind, but they didn't bother adjusting the old tests to fit the new balance, and now people who would like to use the new versions of the old Dan skills have to suffer for the dev's oversight.
    TheDumbOne
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    Rhey wrote: »
    There are gimmicks to each test. Dan tests more than just the usage of that skill it also tests ur smarts.

    But yea I do agree that Rng gimmicks like needing crit is stupid on the dev's part.

    That and unexplained point values are what annoy me most. Certain monsters in some tests are worth a lot of points attacking or killing but the game gives no effort to explain this to you in the text explanation. You have to fail (or pass the test with a grade that won't affect your rank, wasting a day) to figure out how to maximize my point gains.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
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    Back in my days we dont have fancy "patches" or "rebalancing". We failed, try again, and beat whatever challenge the game dev are throwing at us.
    -waves cane-





    VitulaTheNyanCatFeliceAellSherriGrimreaper97PanYakeru
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    Liyeta wrote: »
    Back in my days we dont have fancy "patches" or "rebalancing". We failed, try again, and beat whatever challenge the game dev are throwing at us.
    -waves cane-

    At least when you passed a test back in the old Dan system you got guaranteed progress to your Dan rank and when you failed someone else in your group got progress to their's. If you pass in this system without getting S/SS in the Dan 2/3 tests you're basically wasting an exam day entirely and no one gets any good from it.
    AvarakRaishiiSherri
  • BlortadBlortad
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,190
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    edited August 23, 2017
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Back in my days we dont have fancy "patches" or "rebalancing". We failed, try again, and beat whatever challenge the game dev are throwing at us.
    -waves cane-

    At least when you passed a test back in the old Dan system you got guaranteed progress to your Dan rank and when you failed someone else in your group got progress to their's. If you pass in this system without getting S/SS in the Dan 2/3 tests you're basically wasting an exam day entirely and no one gets any good from it.

    Exactly, there are requirements for lower ranks, but since their filled as well when you get the highest rank needed, theres not even a reason for them to be there. Getting a lower requirement doesnt help you at all when you just have to retrigger that requirement an extra time anyways to get the one above it. They need to just either let us use our own god damn weapons or lower the monster hp so archers and melee without flawless ping even stand a ghost of a chance at getting these done.

    Or just remove the bs where you can "pass" without actually making any progress at all, wasting an entire day.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,475
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    Just quit the mission and redo it every time you think you're gonna fail.
    Its only been said like 100 times on the forum since this update came out.
    LiyetaClovis15ImaizumiSherri
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
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    Blortad wrote: »
    I can't imagine how people without top notch internet connections must feel, since them being near impossible as it is means any lag at all will result in a guaranteed fail
    Playing from Asia here. My usual VPN having problem and now I'm playing near 400 ping. Was screaming my head off when counterattack and windmill takes forever to load while I got multiaggroed. So fun getting hit non-stop by the monsters..Not.
    Blortad
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    Opalthira wrote: »
    Just quit the mission and redo it every time you think you're gonna fail.
    Its only been said like 100 times on the forum since this update came out.

    That works for most skills, but if you don't know what your bonus score will be on damage based exams that becomes difficult and almost wasteful.
    Blortad
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,745
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    Get good buddy.
    LiyetaHappers
  • BlortadBlortad
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,190
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    Pan wrote: »
    Get good buddy.

    Have you been missing the entire point here? For many people, its not about "getting good", its about having unavoidably shitty ping making some of them completely impossible, regardless of how good you are or how amazing your luck is with the rng bs. If its nearly impossible without lag as it is and there's no way to make it easier by getting stronger since its a stupid RP mission, people with higher ping, like every single EU Mabi player since they merged EU Mabi into NA, will be effectively denied access to the content.
    Grimreaper97
  • ApologistApologist
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,205
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    Go for something easy. Like shooting rush or crisis.
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,745
    Posts: 418
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    edited August 24, 2017
    Blortad wrote: »
    Pan wrote: »
    Get good buddy.

    Have you been missing the entire point here? For many people, its not about "getting good", its about having unavoidably shitty ping making some of them completely impossible, regardless of how good you are or how amazing your luck is with the rng bs. If its nearly impossible without lag as it is and there's no way to make it easier by getting stronger since its a stupid RP mission, people with higher ping, like every single EU Mabi player since they merged EU Mabi into NA, will be effectively denied access to the content.

    Look, this is your handicap and you have to deal with it. Try a new strategy. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. By all means, give your account to someone else to try it. There is always a way and sometimes it's unavoidable that you're gonna have to do it these ways.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
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    @Pan : Yes, let's just implement a feature that requires a violation of code to possibly complete. As long as it works it can be considered a feature, right? Pretty sure people would love to get their hands on a juicy account with lots of things maxed on the pretext of helping and then even getting sacked for it. Yep, cool stuff. Skill does definitely play a role, but there has to be a limit to stretching your point. Can't even tell if you're serious or just trolling at this point - that's pretty bad.
    PanTwelie
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,475
    Posts: 941
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    Pretty sure this is the person that wishes rp missions never existed and complains about lagging on every forum post.
    I have under 1mb speed for internet and play this game just fine. I feel bad for everyone that isn't in north america but it can't be helped.
    This game is catered to us in North America over everyone else.
    Pan
This discussion has been closed.