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Assistance in a long term decision

NilremNilrem
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in General Chat
I'm not sure where to place a topic like this in the forum, so here we go.

Many months ago, back before KR announced the giant revamp, I was playing as an elf.
While I was very powerful as this elf, having pretty much capped magic, I was not having much fun as one.
I did not have the drive or gold to get reforges for things like archery, so that talent was just for stats in my eyes.
In a sense, I began to wish I had chosen one of the other races, and somewhat considered a move to a giant.
Then the giant revamp got announced, and the sheer changes I saw made me commit to an elite hero card for the giant.

Being a giant, so far, has been overall a lot more enjoyable.
Unlike when I was an elf, I was not restricted to being good at just magic or guns outside of reforges.
It was just good fun, even though I have to train the character back up. (Still doing that, too)
For many months, I was happy as a giant. Giant melee is a joy, and I could use almost every talent to great success.

But then, Chain Slash got announced. (Alongside G21)
A talent that uses whips, a weapon I love using above all others when able. Especially with magic like that.
There is just one issue. It was a talent reliant on the DEX stat. Something giants heavily struggle with.
This is where thoughts of regret began to grow over time, as I wanted to main that fun little talent.
After a lot of thinking, I began to weigh the options of using chain slash as an elf or a giant.
These thoughts are based on a long term choice, as moving the massive amount of bags and items I have through the bank is expensive.

So I decided that I would need help making such a large, long term choice.
And what better place to ask such than the forums?
Sherri
  1. What should I do? Think carefully about this.30 votes
    1. Remain a giant, and use chain slash despite the stat disadvantage.
       73% (22 votes)
    2. Return to the elf, and despite the restrictions of the race, use chain slash to its full potential.
       27% (8 votes)

Comments

  • SherriSherri
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    I've heard that the difference of amount of damage between an elf and giant with chain lash is rather low, but I'm not sure.
    I main an elf so once it comes around, I can see for sure. But other than that,.. I don't know.
    All I can really say is if you enjoy being a giant a lot, stick with it. ^^
  • NilremNilrem
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    Sherri wrote: »
    I've heard that the difference of amount of damage between an elf and giant with chain lash is rather low, but I'm not sure.
    I main an elf so once it comes around, I can see for sure. But other than that,.. I don't know.
    All I can really say is if you enjoy being a giant a lot, stick with it. ^^

    If I recall correctly, that damage difference is potentially during the giant's racial passive, which boosts their damage.
    Either way, Elf still has the higher damage.

    I should probably also state that if I knew about chain slash before the creation of this giant, I would have remained an elf.
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
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    From what I understand, I think you'd enjoy your self better as an Elf. I think it really just comes down to do you enjoy being a giant more, or do you think you'd enjoy your chains more? Also why not transfer items through pets?
  • FavrielFavriel
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    Magic can be quite boring spamming firebolt constantly I find it quite boring but I suggest trying out archery as an elf it is very fun and quite easy to do good damage with it now with the combo card update you can be doing amazing damage.
  • ArjuneArjune
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    edited August 26, 2017
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Being a giant, so far, has been overall a lot more enjoyable.

    if this is truly how you feel then I say stick with the one you enjoy the most, and not which one is better at certain combats. When Final Hit got buffed I got kinda depressed but I stuck with my giant and now we have something that at least can compare to FH a bit. I'd still love a skill that does tons of damage and doesn't eat up dura, but I am pretty much satisfied with what we got. From what I can tell, there won't be a super big difference in damage with the chain skills, especially when the giant uses might of ladeca
  • LiyetaLiyeta
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    edited August 26, 2017
    To make it simple,
    Chain slash is going to be like gunner or ninja, not great for single dps but awesome for moderate damage aoe. (Atleast not as great as bash or fh)

    Since its moderate then a few small deviation in stat doesn't really matter since at mid or end game you can still clear dungeon and sm just fine.

    To make it more simple.
    If a group of mob have 500 hp.
    Using chain:
    With elf you can do 900 damage
    With giant you can do 800 damage
    Doesnt really matter right ? Since with either race its still one hit kill.

    What about boss room ?
    Change to malee weapon and bash or just let the human fh everything.

    So to sum it up play the race you like best.
  • BlortadBlortad
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    You should wait until the talent comes out and see if you like it as much as you thought. I remember when puppets came out and I thought I wanted to make that my main talent, then I tried it and hated it for the longest time because its hard to get used to, managing 2 characters at once essentially. I also remember thinking I was going to hate gunner, now its my second main talent next to melee. As far as the damage difference between elf and giant on the new talent, the main difference (from what I understand, im a human, so im not as well versed in the other races) is that elves get a higher dex cap by a significant number of points. I think it comes down to a difference of something like 200 points of dex, but im not sure how much damage that will translate into. Its might not end up being a big enough hindrance to make a practical difference in any normal situation since its a 2 stat skill set. Another thing to consider is that the new skills seem to have lots of aoe's that happen around the player similar to windmill, so giants larger hitbox might do what it does with windmill and make for a larger aoe radius, that, unlike a minor damage boost, would be much more likely to make or break an actual combat situation using the skills. If you have the time for it, play both characters in the meantime until the skills come out and see if they make a difference in your experience when comparing the two.
  • NilremNilrem
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    Imaizumi wrote: »
    From what I understand, I think you'd enjoy your self better as an Elf. I think it really just comes down to do you enjoy being a giant more, or do you think you'd enjoy your chains more? Also why not transfer items through pets?

    To be honest, the thoughts are about 50/50. As a giant, I have more overall freedom.
    Thing is, whips, and by extension chain whips, are literally my favorite weapon.
    So remaining giant means more options, but going back to my elf means max potential for a favorite.

    As for item transfers...
    One, I already move most things in pets.
    and Two, you can't move bags via pets, from what I know.
    And I have a huge amount of bags and various items pets cannot carry, but the bank can.
    Blortad wrote: »
    You should wait until the talent comes out and see if you like it as much as you thought. As far as the damage difference between elf and giant on the new talent, the main difference (from what I understand, im a human, so im not as well versed in the other races) is that elves get a higher dex cap by a significant number of points. I think it comes down to a difference of something like 200 points of dex, but im not sure how much damage that will translate into. Its might not end up being a big enough hindrance to make a practical difference in any normal situation since its a 2 stat skill set.

    The main point of trying to decide early is so I can prepare as much as possible.
    I'm also pretty sure the dex difference is very large, more than 200.
    After checking wiki, the difference is about 400, especially if you count echo stones and multi grandmasters.
    Based on what I know of Chain Slash, that is about 200 or so max damage, if not more. A large difference when you consider skill damages.
    Arjune wrote: »
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Being a giant, so far, has been overall a lot more enjoyable.
    if this is truly how you feel then I say stick with the one you enjoy the most, and not which one is better at certain combats.

    Keep in mind the main reason the giant was more fun was due to having better and more desirable options.
    The arrival of chain slash fixes that problem on the elf side, but since the giant has more freedom outside of it, I'm having a hard time deciding.

    I'm going to keep thinking about this for a while, so more discussion will be helpful.
    I don't want to rush this, as I generally stay with one character when playing.
    Although I am very thankful for the discussion. Information and opinions mean a lot.
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited August 27, 2017
    In short, it sounds like you want to hear us say: go back to being an elf. If that's the case: go back to being an elf.

    To be honest the race of your character matters relatively little in the grand scheme of things with relation to skill-balance. Are you going to be an elite end-gamer who spends thousands of real dollars on this game? If not, then you shouldn't bother with the end-game potential damage difference of a few dozen int or something. That being said, there are two distinct differences between elves and giants. I haven't seen an elf (on ruairi) that Really competes with humans/giants for melee damage. Also lances. I also haven't seen a giant which really competes with an elf for ranged damage (throwing attack) lol If THOSE skillsets are important to you, then maybe you should pick based on race. If melee/archery isn't going to be a main avenue of attack for you, then pick whatever the heck you want.

    (Yes I know I didn't cover every single possible thing about the individual races. I just posted my personal highlights)

    I'm human. I picked human because it was the only race at the time. Would I change? Unlikely because I like having full access to every skillset. I guess I might not be the best archery DPS or the best combat DPS in the game (which happen to be the two skillsets I focus on) compared to elves/giants. However, I can do them together. That's just my preference.
  • ArjuneArjune
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    edited August 27, 2017
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Imaizumi wrote: »

    Keep in mind the main reason the giant was more fun was due to having better and more desirable options.
    The arrival of chain slash fixes that problem on the elf side, but since the giant has more freedom outside of it, I'm having a hard time deciding.
    .

    Don't forget that giants can also get the multiple GMs and also get yellow echostones. Almost everything additional dex than an elf can get a giant can also get.... except, of course, the archery skillset and GM....which is why they're behind in dex. Their shine of eweca actually gives more dex than the other races to make up for it somewhat. shine of eweca also gives elves more str than it does the other races to make up for their lack of str. I think Maia has a good point as well
  • RaishiiRaishii
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    Nilrem wrote: »
    Keep in mind the main reason the giant was more fun was due to having better and more desirable options.
    The arrival of chain slash fixes that problem on the elf side, but since the giant has more freedom outside of it, I'm having a hard time deciding.

    I'm going to keep thinking about this for a while, so more discussion will be helpful.
    I don't want to rush this, as I generally stay with one character when playing.
    Although I am very thankful for the discussion. Information and opinions mean a lot.

    Well, unless you plan on using Chain Slasher everywhere you go, I don't see it being worth it to switch races just for one talent.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    edited August 27, 2017
    How can you know if something you never fought with before (in this game) is your favorite weapon/skill or not? What if when it comes out you learn you hate it, then what? Does it still remain your favorite? My favorite most hated weapon/skill in Mabinogi has to be .... (I need to think about that one some more lol). ~ Do what makes you happy. :)

  • PannyaPannya
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    if you have to choose one of them, giant is way better without p2w stuff, but humans are still better than both, again without p2w stuff.
  • watercat0watercat0
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    just make another account and see the difference, you aren't force into anything.
    Hardmuscle
  • EllisyaEllisya
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    it's not just Dex you use... it's also about Luck stats too.
    Why are you giving up a chr just for one single talent?
    Maia
  • NilremNilrem
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    watercat0 wrote: »
    just make another account and see the difference, you aren't force into anything.

    You appear to have missed the mentioned existence of the elf character.
    Both the giant and elf are similar in level, with the giant behind by about 800-1000 or so levels.
    The entire point is that both of them are leveled and powerful in their own entirely separate ways.
    Ellisya wrote: »
    it's not just Dex you use... it's also about Luck stats too.
    Why are you giving up a chr just for one single talent?

    You act like I don't know this. You act like I didn't already think about and consider half of the things mentioned so far.
    To make it more obvious for you, I already have the desire to main this talent regardless of the character I choose to remain on.
    As a giant, I would have less damage but be tanky and have access to powerful melee as a backup.
    As an elf, I would have more damage but be squishy, and have access to capped magic as a backup.

    And no, I am not making yet another new character or going human.
    Doing such would mean gaining 7000 levels a 3rd time.

    For now though, I guess I shall remain on my giant.
    I am already waiting on a number of things, and it might be best to decide entirely after they arrive.
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
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    edited August 27, 2017
    Not to shift the topic, but I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that just because they are the worst at something that means they are bad at it, or just because they don't have advantage in it that means they shouldn't do it. With the exception of close combat and lances elves can proficiently use every talent, and the stat caps that people often times use only matter to end game players who more often than not are just deciding how much they want to overkill things. While there are a few mechanical disadvantages elves have in close combat (no dual wield, two handed, lances) and fighter (can't wear armor) every other talent is one you might as well do since it wont really matter all too terribly much until you hit those stat caps way down the road.

    I get wanting to do something on a character that is going to excel at it but play around with but I wouldn't really avoid doing a talent on a race or feeling like you can't play it just because end game humans are going to have a few more points of extra damage on you. If you like close combat then I'd stick with the giant, but if you want to have an end game dominatrix elf then just start branching out and trying new things on your elf and you may find that it is more capable than you thought. Or just try doing both characters with chain whip for a while and stick with whichever one you end up liking more, and split your bags down the middle or something. It'd save you half the cost of transferring and gives you a bit of flexibility to try out new things.
    WolfandWolfYokkaichi
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    edited August 27, 2017
    If you're not going to use reforges, giant is probably the best choice. Elf is only for archery and that sucks without reforges. As a giant you'll be better at most skills.
  • NilremNilrem
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    lceCream wrote: »
    If you're not going to use reforges, giant is probably the best choice. Elf is only for archery and that sucks without reforges. As a giant you'll be better at most skills.
    Nilrem wrote: »
    While I was very powerful as this elf, having pretty much capped magic
    Nilrem wrote: »
    But then, Chain Slash got announced. (Alongside G21)
    A talent that uses whips, a weapon I love using above all others when able.

    I really don't understand why anyone would mention archery when I've made it more than clear I really don't care for it.
    On top of that, it is clear that I desire to use the heavily dex based talent coming out in the future, chain slash.
    lceCream wrote: »
    Elf is only for archery

    Until Chain Slash comes out, and even then Elves make for amazing mages.
  • EraleaEralea
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    Accept the challenge and play as a giant.

    It's like playing as a melee elf or giant mage - who cares if it's difficult or not min-maxing stats? It's fun and different, just own it.
    Avarak