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Add a way to accelerate "Rescue the Scout" mission

Atheist42Atheist42
Mabinogi Rep: 785
Posts: 24
Member
edited September 11, 2018 in General Chat
The "Rescue the Scout" shadow mission has 17 waves of enemies occurring at 1 minute intervals.

The problem is that if you are in a reasonably powerful party, then it can take about 5 seconds to kill all the enemies in a wave, and then you have to wait 55 seconds for the next wave. A game that forces you to spend most of your time waiting is not fun. If you provide a method to accelerate the spawn rate so that we can deal with the 17 waves more quickly and complete the mission faster, then we can spend more time on the parts of the game that are fun.

Suggested solution: Add a switch in the middle of the playing area. While there are enemies alive, the switch is inactive. When all the enemies in the current wave are dead, the switch lights up, and then hitting the switch makes the next wave spawn immediately. If no one hits the switch, because say they're healing the 3 NPCs or collecting drops, then the next wave spawns 1 minute after the previous spawn, as occurs currently. That is, if your party is playing near the limits of their ability, they can still take over 17 minutes to complete the mission, but if you are in a strong party, you can get it over with in a couple of minutes.

Of course, this might now mean that a couple of strong humans might be able to knock off all 17 waves of enemies in a single spell of Final Hit. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that, but if the game designers want to avoid that, they could modify the above suggestion to also include a minimum period of say 15 seconds between waves. But I think a better solution would be to improve the enemies' AI. Currently the enemies are all pretty stupid when it comes to reacting to what players are doing. If the enemies see their colleagues being wiped out by a player using Final Hit, any sensible enemy would load counterattack. (OK - not all the enemies in this mission have counterattack, but enough do to make a difference.)

I've made this suggestion with respect to "Rescue the Scout" since that's an easy one to explain. But if you do implement this suggestion, you can then also think about adding it to the other shadow mission that can have tedious periods of waiting if you are in a strong party: Taillteann Defensive Battle. It's a little messier to implement there, because you have enemies spawning at 3 different gates, so you need 3 different switches operating independently. That is, if the pair operating at the South Gate decide to hit their switch to bring forward the next spawn, it should NOT also immediately spawn a new wave of mobs for someone struggling at the East gate. There's also the issue that if the players at one gate fail to keep up with their spawns, the spawn location then moves to a new position nearer the centre of town. So then you need to decide whether to move their switch to the new spawn location. My opinion: It would be nice if the switch moved, but if they've failed to keep up with the spawns at the first location, they are probably not going to want to accelerate the spawns at the next location, so providing a switch that doesn't move is not a big problem. It would still be an improvement over the current scenario of no switch at all.

Anyway, I suggest implementing the suggestion for the simpler case of Rescue the Scout first, and making sure that works properly, before worrying about how to fix Taillteann Defensive Battle.
ZairakJayy124
  1. Do you support adding a switch to allow players to accelerate Rescue the Scout?31 votes
    1. Yes
       90% (28 votes)
    2. No
       10% (3 votes)

Comments

  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,285
    Posts: 728
    Member
    How about the next wave comes 10 seconds after the death of the previous wave? That way you can finish 17 waves quite quickly, or slow down the mission if needed by dragging out the fight with the last enemy of a wave.
    YangKoeteKageitoXiokunGoldtiger01
  • ErorservErorserv
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,695
    Posts: 154
    Member
    In regards to the waiting periods, yes please. This mission feels like a chore.

    However if there were no delay between waves, let's assume everyone uses final hit, 2-3 seconds per wave, 34-51 seconds to finish. Super unbalanced. THICC's suggestion, if each person alternated FH, around 4 seconds a wave, 4 minutes to finish. This is far more balanced and seems like the best option while being a considerable improvement on the current 17 minutes.

    Completion time should correlate with the power of the party, like almost everything else in the game.
    Bronzebreak
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,550
    Posts: 634
    Member
    One time I blinked during a spawn and everything looked like they died on arrival.
    Gaby5011Jayy124
  • TamboonTamboon
    Mabinogi Rep: 565
    Posts: 10
    Member
    Yes pls
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,565
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    edited September 9, 2018
    Ugh, the rouge moderator is back at it again... Moving suggestion threads to general discussion.

    To QUOTE THE OP:
    Atheist42 wrote: »
    The "Rescue the Scout" shadow mission has 17 waves of enemies occurring at 1 minute intervals.

    The problem is that if you are in a reasonably powerful party, then it can take about 5 seconds to kill all the enemies in a wave, and then you have to wait 55 seconds for the next wave. A game that forces you to spend most of your time waiting is not fun. If you provide a method to accelerate the spawn rate so that we can deal with the 17 waves more quickly and complete the mission faster, then we can spend more time on the parts of the game that are fun.
    Suggested solution:
    Add a switch in the middle of the playing area. While there are enemies alive, the switch is inactive. When all the enemies in the current wave are dead, the switch lights up, and then hitting the switch makes the next wave spawn immediately. If no one hits the switch, because say they're healing the 3 NPCs or collecting drops, then the next wave spawns 1 minute after the previous spawn, as occurs currently. That is, if your party is playing near the limits of their ability, they can still take over 17 minutes to complete the mission, but if you are in a strong party, you can get it over with in a couple of minutes.

    Of course, this might now mean that a couple of strong humans might be able to knock off all 17 waves of enemies in a single spell of Final Hit. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that, but if the game designers want to avoid that, they could modify the above suggestion to also include a minimum period of say 15 seconds between waves. But I think a better solution would be to improve the enemies' AI. Currently the enemies are all pretty stupid when it comes to reacting to what players are doing. If the enemies see their colleagues being wiped out by a player using Final Hit, any sensible enemy would load counterattack. (OK - not all the enemies in this mission have counterattack, but enough do to make a difference.)
    I've made this suggestion
    with respect to "Rescue the Scout" since that's an easy one to explain. But if you do implement this suggestion, you can then also think about adding it to the other shadow mission that can have tedious periods of waiting if you are in a strong party: Taillteann Defensive Battle. It's a little messier to implement there, because you have enemies spawning at 3 different gates, so you need 3 different switches operating independently. That is, if the pair operating at the South Gate decide to hit their switch to bring forward the next spawn, it should NOT also immediately spawn a new wave of mobs for someone struggling at the East gate. There's also the issue that if the players at one gate fail to keep up with their spawns, the spawn location then moves to a new position nearer the centre of town. So then you need to decide whether to move their switch to the new spawn location. My opinion: It would be nice if the switch moved, but if they've failed to keep up with the spawns at the first location, they are probably not going to want to accelerate the spawns at the next location, so providing a switch that doesn't move is not a big problem. It would still be an improvement over the current scenario of no switch at all.
    Anyway, I suggest implementing the suggestion for the simpler case of Rescue the Scout first, and making sure that works properly, before worrying about how to fix Taillteann Defensive Battle.


    But no, this is just general discussion.
    Greta
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,460
    Posts: 1,021
    Member
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    Ugh, the rouge moderator is back at it again... Moving suggestion threads to general discussion.

    To QUOTE THE OP:
    Atheist42 wrote: »
    The "Rescue the Scout" shadow mission has 17 waves of enemies occurring at 1 minute intervals.

    The problem is that if you are in a reasonably powerful party, then it can take about 5 seconds to kill all the enemies in a wave, and then you have to wait 55 seconds for the next wave. A game that forces you to spend most of your time waiting is not fun. If you provide a method to accelerate the spawn rate so that we can deal with the 17 waves more quickly and complete the mission faster, then we can spend more time on the parts of the game that are fun.
    Suggested solution:
    Add a switch in the middle of the playing area. While there are enemies alive, the switch is inactive. When all the enemies in the current wave are dead, the switch lights up, and then hitting the switch makes the next wave spawn immediately. If no one hits the switch, because say they're healing the 3 NPCs or collecting drops, then the next wave spawns 1 minute after the previous spawn, as occurs currently. That is, if your party is playing near the limits of their ability, they can still take over 17 minutes to complete the mission, but if you are in a strong party, you can get it over with in a couple of minutes.

    Of course, this might now mean that a couple of strong humans might be able to knock off all 17 waves of enemies in a single spell of Final Hit. Personally, I don't have a big problem with that, but if the game designers want to avoid that, they could modify the above suggestion to also include a minimum period of say 15 seconds between waves. But I think a better solution would be to improve the enemies' AI. Currently the enemies are all pretty stupid when it comes to reacting to what players are doing. If the enemies see their colleagues being wiped out by a player using Final Hit, any sensible enemy would load counterattack. (OK - not all the enemies in this mission have counterattack, but enough do to make a difference.)
    I've made this suggestion
    with respect to "Rescue the Scout" since that's an easy one to explain. But if you do implement this suggestion, you can then also think about adding it to the other shadow mission that can have tedious periods of waiting if you are in a strong party: Taillteann Defensive Battle. It's a little messier to implement there, because you have enemies spawning at 3 different gates, so you need 3 different switches operating independently. That is, if the pair operating at the South Gate decide to hit their switch to bring forward the next spawn, it should NOT also immediately spawn a new wave of mobs for someone struggling at the East gate. There's also the issue that if the players at one gate fail to keep up with their spawns, the spawn location then moves to a new position nearer the centre of town. So then you need to decide whether to move their switch to the new spawn location. My opinion: It would be nice if the switch moved, but if they've failed to keep up with the spawns at the first location, they are probably not going to want to accelerate the spawns at the next location, so providing a switch that doesn't move is not a big problem. It would still be an improvement over the current scenario of no switch at all.
    Anyway, I suggest implementing the suggestion for the simpler case of Rescue the Scout first, and making sure that works properly, before worrying about how to fix Taillteann Defensive Battle.


    But no, this is just general discussion.

    Can we just have a redo on forum mods? Why is this constantly an issue.
    Greta
  • ShoogShoog
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,415
    Posts: 873
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    Ugh, the rouge moderator is back at it again... Moving suggestion threads to general discussion.
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Can we just have a redo on forum mods? Why is this constantly an issue.

    Actually, the issue is with the forum section category resetting when an OP edits the first post of their thread. It will default to the General forum section and if the OP isn't paying attention to this, then that is where the thread will end up when they save the edit. For some reason I see this happen mainly with Feedback/Suggestion threads.

    If you see something out of place, you can report it with the Report feature to make moderators aware. I'll move this back to that section in a moment.
    TamboonChaosShadow
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,565
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    Tamboon wrote: »
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    Ugh, the rouge moderator is back at it again... Moving suggestion threads to general discussion.
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Can we just have a redo on forum mods? Why is this constantly an issue.

    Bet you two feel so dumb right now

    It happened to MULTIPLE threads of DIFFERENT authors at the same time. Oh, and I just edited a topic I created in January and it still says it is in Feedback and Suggestions. There was no defaulting. And the OP hasn't logged in since September 5th.... yet it was moved last night?

    Mine is still on Page 20. "Donation Dumpster" is the title.

    http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/categories/feedback-and-suggestions/p20

    I don't get it. =/
  • ShoogShoog
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,415
    Posts: 873
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    I'm not sure, sorry. I just know that it's done this quite a few times in the past. I even had it happen to myself a couple times but I didn't catch it until my edit was saved and I had to re-edit to change my category. I'll try to look into the issue though.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,825
    Posts: 4,866
    Member
    Lol this thread moving back and forth between two categories. :D
    Jazmyn
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,245
    Posts: 546
    Member
    Pretty sure this mission will only be updated to have enemies spawn faster on average at BEST. I'm sure the code is such a mess in old content that none of the current devs want to touch it if they can help it.

    Reason I say this is because I would imagine they can only easily adjust numbers rather than adding props or different systems to adjust based on how well the party is clearing the mission. See: Conflict rewards nerf. Also it is most likely not even a remote priority for them to do it in general anyway since it's a single SM.
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,815
    Posts: 1,661
    Member
    I think it might have something to do with thread mergers.... and the mod that merges the thread defaults it to general. Why do I think this? Because someone else posted an 'increase the pet limit' thread and it got merged with my old one and BAM suddenly it's in General
  • Atheist42Atheist42
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 24
    Member
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    Ugh, the rouge moderator is back at it again...

    Are you saying the moderator is a socialist? :)