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Stop giving everything heavy stander

BanazaiSabreBanazaiSabre
Mabinogi Rep: 1,955
Posts: 109
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
its just dumb. everything late game around albain training onwards, has heavy stander. its not good design. its not clever design.
Shadow archers litarely have nothing but a bow. they can use no skill, but ranged ability. yknow what happens when you punch a shadow archer with heavy stander? it tries to load its arrow shooting thing. i dont know the word. Arhcery? maybe. giants care not for this concept, but i know hitting it for it to try to load archery, is very annoying. it serves no purpose. just think for 5 seconds "should this have heavy stander".

i mean, its not the same as ranged or magic stander. if you hit a balrug with heavy stander, your gonna feel dat' machete. archers and mages have a chance or even another option to knockback. i guess my only option is smashing?
BronzebreakBlissfulkillYangKoete

Comments

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
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    Ping
    Bronzebreak
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    Ping

    Pong
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
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    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Does hvy stander go pong? Don't remember.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Does hvy stander go pong? Don't remember.

    It was a really bad joke :(
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Does hvy stander go pong? Don't remember.

    It was a really bad joke :(

    I got the joke, but it made me wonder.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,763
    Member
    its just dumb. everything late game around albain training onwards, has heavy stander. its not good design. its not clever design.
    Shadow archers litarely have nothing but a bow. they can use no skill, but ranged ability. yknow what happens when you punch a shadow archer with heavy stander? it tries to load its arrow shooting thing. i dont know the word. Arhcery? maybe. giants care not for this concept, but i know hitting it for it to try to load archery, is very annoying. it serves no purpose. just think for 5 seconds "should this have heavy stander".

    i mean, its not the same as ranged or magic stander. if you hit a balrug with heavy stander, your gonna feel dat' machete. archers and mages have a chance or even another option to knockback. i guess my only option is smashing?

    I hear ya. I wouldn't call it "bad" design but it is lazy design. On the other hand to be fair new components are being added to the game even now and top level characters now are WAY more powerful than top level characters of years ago. This has created a wider range of character strength than ever before. The designers have to try to balance between keeping the game entertaining for the high end characters, so it isn't a boring cake walk, and being possible for lower level characters. It would seem that opening up the G's to allow doing them in any order was a mistake. Maybe we should go back to how it was before where you had to do the G's in numerical order. The free form order of doing the G's occurred because G9 was, at the time, pretty difficult to do, and until complete you had no access to any post G9 capabilities. But the skills introduced since then and the revamp of the combat system that occurred around the time fighter was introduced has made G9 easier for weaker players now. If we went back to forcing an order to do G's then this will give the designers some leeway to work with in that they would NOT have to satisfy a wide range of potential challengers.
    JazmynBronzebreak
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    its just dumb. everything late game around albain training onwards, has heavy stander. its not good design. its not clever design.
    Shadow archers litarely have nothing but a bow. they can use no skill, but ranged ability. yknow what happens when you punch a shadow archer with heavy stander? it tries to load its arrow shooting thing. i dont know the word. Arhcery? maybe. giants care not for this concept, but i know hitting it for it to try to load archery, is very annoying. it serves no purpose. just think for 5 seconds "should this have heavy stander".

    i mean, its not the same as ranged or magic stander. if you hit a balrug with heavy stander, your gonna feel dat' machete. archers and mages have a chance or even another option to knockback. i guess my only option is smashing?

    I hear ya. I wouldn't call it "bad" design but it is lazy design. On the other hand to be fair new components are being added to the game even now and top level characters now are WAY more powerful than top level characters of years ago. This has created a wider range of character strength than ever before. The designers have to try to balance between keeping the game entertaining for the high end characters, so it isn't a boring cake walk, and being possible for lower level characters. It would seem that opening up the G's to allow doing them in any order was a mistake. Maybe we should go back to how it was before where you had to do the G's in numerical order. The free form order of doing the G's occurred because G9 was, at the time, pretty difficult to do, and until complete you had no access to any post G9 capabilities. But the skills introduced since then and the revamp of the combat system that occurred around the time fighter was introduced has made G9 easier for weaker players now. If we went back to forcing an order to do G's then this will give the designers some leeway to work with in that they would NOT have to satisfy a wide range of potential challengers.

    The problem with free-to-plays that have theoretically endless ceilings is that once a certain amount of the population has hit the top, they've got to increase/extend the ramp further. As you said, when content can be done in a non-chronological order, that makes it difficult to actually scale it appropriately for players. Then, of course, there's the whole side of having that new very-high-end content not being accessible for most.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    It is not dumb or lazy design. Doing end game content, you should not expect things to be a walk in the park. If you are doing end game content then you should be playing long enough to have some way around Advanced heavy stander, Meaning there is no need for nexon to stop making it as such.
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,665
    Posts: 661
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It is not dumb or lazy design. Doing end game content, you should not expect things to be a walk in the park. If you are doing end game content then you should be playing long enough to have some way around Advanced heavy stander, Meaning there is no need for nexon to stop making it as such.

    It's not that it makes things unfair, it just makes things annoying to deal with. Just taking the same content and just multiplying stats and slapping standers on it is a pretty lame way to instill difficulty.

    While creativity can't be expected from every update it gets kinda old when the end game content usually ends up being a stat check that just burns time and durability. At some point it's just going to reach ridiculous heights and it's just going to be a matter of are you willing to sit there for hours smacking around a glorified punching bag.
    JazmynBlissfulkillBronzebreak
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
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    The imbalance has its root in the absurd power creep of both stats and the newer skills given to players, which is then met by the kneejerk reaction to "balance" the content's "difficulty" to the new meta set by the previous designers.

    I always use Bash as an example, which is generally met by people stating that Bash isn't comparatively as good a dps skill to archery, chains, etc. True, but think of it this way; how easy is it to use Bash at any level for most any content, and the amount of mental effort it takes to do so? It is essentially spamming M. Bison's sliding kick in the earlier Street Fighters, and it craps all over any sort of strategy.

    The true meta isn't how much damage you can dish out in however many seconds one wishes; it is how little effort it takes to do things.

    This is why something like Mabinogi 2 would be a great idea, since we wouldn't need to worry about ripping mechanics that have been around long enough that players are accustomed to it, and the whole spheal concerning a lack of knowledge on the game's ancient coding.

    TL;DR Please developer, don't balance future content around the mistakes you yourself put in, that require updating everything else to compete.
    JazmynVeylaineBronzebreak
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Does hvy stander go pong? Don't remember.

    Well, if the thing with heavy stander happens to have a shield then it makes a different sound when it pings. (i.e. Hollow Knights)
    I dunno if I'd call that "pong" but it sure doesn't sound like a "ping" either.
    Jazmyn
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,763
    Member
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Does hvy stander go pong? Don't remember.

    Well, if the thing with heavy stander happens to have a shield then it makes a different sound when it pings. (i.e. Hollow Knights)
    I dunno if I'd call that "pong" but it sure doesn't sound like a "ping" either.

    You're taking it WAY too seriously. Pong is internetspeak for: mypostcount=mypostcount+1;
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    I wish players had more access to AHS type skills and status effects. Though this is just me wanting a human version of Windguard. (Curse you giants and your rocking bods.)
    Blissfulkill
  • ThePravinThePravin
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,380
    Posts: 101
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    its just dumb. everything late game around albain training onwards, has heavy stander. its not good design. its not clever design.
    Shadow archers litarely have nothing but a bow. they can use no skill, but ranged ability. yknow what happens when you punch a shadow archer with heavy stander? it tries to load its arrow shooting thing. i dont know the word. Arhcery? maybe. giants care not for this concept, but i know hitting it for it to try to load archery, is very annoying. it serves no purpose. just think for 5 seconds "should this have heavy stander".

    i mean, its not the same as ranged or magic stander. if you hit a balrug with heavy stander, your gonna feel dat' machete. archers and mages have a chance or even another option to knockback. i guess my only option is smashing?

    I hear ya. I wouldn't call it "bad" design but it is lazy design.

    I would considering all throught the beginning of the game even through the first couple Gs you are taught and reminded of timing and combos that are all made obsolete when everything has advanced heavy stander later on. The combat stops being about being smart and just boils down to stats and brute force.
    All they need to do is make it have a weakness or counter if melee can't stun or knock back a mob then range or magic should. They have already done this with many mods hell some even change what they are weak to mid fight. This is a much more enjoyable and rewarding mechanic


    Maybe have a mob that can't be stunned by magic but magic lowers it's defence and protection meaning you need to use magic to weaken it and melee or range to ultimately kill it and keep it at bay until it's defenses are low enough.
    happyx2055Bronzebreak
  • BanazaiSabreBanazaiSabre
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,955
    Posts: 109
    Member
    the damage, i dont mind reduced, but removing the stun and stuff is just a game over.
    Example: a goblin archer. we ran a 500% albain training. Pretty nasty stuff.
    Player used charge. Hit the heavy stander. Goblin changes weapons ni instantly, and smites the player for 4500 damage. Charge, a skill made for closing distance, preventing archery, completely, utterly useless because they gave it heavy stander.

    the only real option is to use knockdowns, meaning your limited to windmill and smash.(at least in the default melee kit). bash feels gambely, sometimes it stuns through heavy stander, some times it dosnt. when your in a 500% damage albain training ground, everything hits harder then raid bosses. risking something hitting the heavy stander feels...high risk low pay off.
  • YuoichiYuoichi
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    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Ding
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    Yuoichi wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Ding

    Time to have a freestyle jam with heavy stander?
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,763
    Member
    Yuoichi wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Ping

    Pong

    Ding

    Oh, you can be more brazen than that! Here, how's this . . .

    Shling!
    Kensamaofmari