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[WARNING KR SPOILERS]Giant Update (if we get it?)

Comments

  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,960
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    edited November 5, 2018
    Honestly, there is so much damage obsession here that I do not at all understand. It seems we are jerking ourselves off.
    ^ Agreed.
    That's the pure definition of elitists.
    ZeoVeylaineChaosShadowXiokunNeyna
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited November 5, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Honestly, there is so much damage obsession here that I do not at all understand. It seems we are jerking ourselves off, or complaining about disparities that are not not at all significant in any content, and only functions as an excuse to post numbers.

    A lot of people like to play that way, no harm in that.
    What intimacy is saying is actually accurate, wholly and entirely. However, there's a very small amount of people that still play in NA where something like this even matters.

    I am questioning whether or not it does matter in the top 1% of content. It seems that we are already reaching overkill potentials that will only matter with future updates where raid bosses have maplestory tier amounts of health points.

    My main point of contention is the stalwarts of individual races becoming butthurt whenever the other two get buffed, which has long been synonymous with my elves. (And for good reason.)
    KagaZeo
  • IntimacyIntimacy
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    edited November 5, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Honestly, there is so much damage obsession here that I do not at all understand. It seems we are jerking ourselves off, or complaining about disparities that are not not at all significant in any content, and only functions as an excuse to post numbers.

    A lot of people like to play that way, no harm in that.
    What intimacy is saying is actually accurate, wholly and entirely. However, there's a very small amount of people that still play in NA where something like this even matters.

    I am questioning whether or not it does matter in the top 1% of content. It seems that we are already reaching overkill potentials that will only matter with future updates where raid bosses have maplestory tier amounts of health points.

    My main point of contention is the stalwarts of individual races becoming butthurt whenever the other two get buffed, which has long been synonymous with my elves. (And for good reason.)

    It does matter, there's a difference between being physically able to do endgame content, and having a party strong enough to farm said content, most of those parties will need to be elves or giants to keep the dps high enough. Humans have a reason to be butthurt over this, their FH got nerfed, giants were given an upgraded final hit. 750% damage, it ignores heavy stander plus a sword that directly boosts its damage. Just wait till giants have a speed set or speed reforges become available for it. The entire issue is this is directly competing although probably not overthrowing humans in their 1 niche that they had. The new skill has double bash levels of damage when setup from what I've seen.

    Humans will still have FH on bosses with brio, but fhing for damage on anything but bosses got directly kneecapped, while giants got an upgraded version.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Humans have legitimate grief with the update since their skill is being nerfed while giants are getting what can be arguably a superior version of that same skill with weapons that directly enhance said skill. Plus as a human player I get to watch as a giant's FS clears out the mobs during an avalon raid before I can even land a proper hit and have to wait until they use up their WG, or finish getting their points. Honestly, they should give us WG in exchange for giants getting FH.
    Zarric
  • IntimacyIntimacy
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Humans have legitimate grief with the update since their skill is being nerfed while giants are getting what can be arguably a superior version of that same skill with weapons that directly enhance said skill.

    Yep, this is the entire point, on top of giants already being stronger than humans at basically everything, they got an upgraded final hit while humans got theirs nerfed, if people don't understand that's the reason people are pissed and not simply "Giants got a buff" then they're beyond help.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Honestly, there is so much damage obsession here that I do not at all understand. It seems we are jerking ourselves off, or complaining about disparities that are not not at all significant in any content, and only functions as an excuse to post numbers.

    A lot of people like to play that way, no harm in that.
    What intimacy is saying is actually accurate, wholly and entirely. However, there's a very small amount of people that still play in NA where something like this even matters.

    I am questioning whether or not it does matter in the top 1% of content. It seems that we are already reaching overkill potentials that will only matter with future updates where raid bosses have maplestory tier amounts of health points.

    My main point of contention is the stalwarts of individual races becoming butthurt whenever the other two get buffed, which has long been synonymous with my elves. (And for good reason.)


    Depends on your reason for playing if it matters or not. If you're someone that cares if it takes 2 minutes or 30 seconds to finish content, then it matters. As it stands right now, it's better to have as little humans as possible in endgame content because elves and giants do more damage than them. Humans are only needed to brio, and if they weren't needed for that then it'd be more efficient not to have one at all. It can be frustrating putting so much time and effort into a character just to learn that they'll never be able to reach the goal they want to achieve. While I don't think it means much for the NA playerbase currently, as we don't have as many people at that point as Korea does, over time that gap will show itself more prominently unless humans can have something redeeming that isn't FH.

    I'd like to not be locked into a bohemian set, the new g22 armors are cool and they way they interact with the tarot cards is cool too. I'll just be over here in my bohemian set that's existed since ancient monsters were a thing. Giants have a lot of different things they can do, and it's not locked to a set bonus.


  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited November 6, 2018
    I can understand, coming from Vindictus, where class discrimination was a thing at several points (Sword Lanns have inferior DPS, Cestus Karoks did no DPS, etc), which was the primary thing keeping one from parties, which is absolutely infuriating if those classes are locked in. I cannot say I have actually seen Mabinogi reach this point of discrimination at all in terms of DPS, but I am beginning to understand it is that humans are a bit hurt at being shafted by limited potential.

    Edit: Now I am curious where humans should stand, particularly because it seems giants were always intended to be superior in melee DPS, and elves in ranged DPS.

    Of course, we could change race to be merely aesthetics, but it seems there are not only dps discrepancies between humans and nonhumans, but entire skillsets. (Ex. 0.5 Second Magnum Cooldowns).

    I am not stating we should be aiming for what the originally aimed DPS quo should be, but I am curious where everythings humans ought to be, relative to the other races.
  • IntimacyIntimacy
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    I can understand, coming from Vindictus, where class discrimination was a thing at several points (Sword Lanns have inferior DPS, Cestus Karoks did no DPS, etc), which was the primary thing keeping one from parties, which is absolutely infuriating if those classes are locked in. I cannot say I have actually seen Mabinogi reach this point of discrimination at all in terms of DPS, but I am beginning to understand it is that humans are a bit hurt at being shafted by limited potential.

    Edit: Now I am curious where humans should stand, particularly because it seems giants were always intended to be superior in melee DPS, and elves in ranged DPS.

    Of course, we could change race to be merely aesthetics, but it seems there are not only dps discrepancies between humans and nonhumans, but entire skillsets. (Ex. 0.5 Second Magnum Cooldowns).

    I am not stating we should be aiming for what the originally aimed DPS quo should be, but I am curious where everythings humans ought to be, relative to the other races.

    The sad part is humans seem to be doomed to forever be the prototype. Unless a new human only skill set comes out, elves or giants will do it better. The issue here is 'second best' at something is leaps and bounds behind first best. Human mag to elf mag is a joke, same with human smash to giant smash. Every other skill set is skewed towards elves or giants because of movement speed, or racial ladeca, or something being naturally stronger because of the higher strength/dex caps.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    Humans should not have access to magic.
  • XiokunXiokun
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    edited November 7, 2018
    Azurexrin wrote: »
    Intimacy wrote: »
    At endgame they legitimately have final hit, everything else the other two races do better.

    No. At endgame we have 350k~1m Lance Charge crits non ele every 5 seconds and 400k crit chain impales every x second without a combo card with SS(this is what's possible in NA). FH is, in my opinion, pure garbage as a "High DPS" skill. FH at its best is AoE DPS when paired with 2h.

    With the buffs coming in G22, I don't understand why this is bad. Mobs only have x-amount of HP and player's damage are only ever going to increase as we see with the incoming passive for 2x dmg that can crit on its own as well as a skill cd reset and skill cd negate oh and at cap +1 piercing and a chara dmg buff. As it stands, Humans are decent and looking at KR's Hall of Fame, humans are the best in Single Target when all possible stacks are available for Lance Charge (which is generally the case in content that matters). FH shouldn't be relied on as the go-to boss killer when humans have other, better options.

    I'm late at this but, how in hell's name are you getting 350k~1m lance charge crits every 5 seconds and 400k chain impales in general..?
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Humans have legitimate grief with the update since their skill is being nerfed while giants are getting what can be arguably a superior version of that same skill with weapons that directly enhance said skill. Plus as a human player I get to watch as a giant's FS clears out the mobs during an avalon raid before I can even land a proper hit and have to wait until they use up their WG, or finish getting their points. Honestly, they should give us WG in exchange for giants getting FH.

    I remember for years when I was a younger player, and every time I wanted to take my time using normal combat with a vales shield and a BDK I got from a BDK, a human would always final hit the entire boss in an SM or dungeon room before I got a chance. It seems the tides have changed. Though, as a giant, I can say I don't use full swing as much as others might assume about giants. I use wind guard a lot, but mainly for windmilling, smashing, and charge. Sometimes bash. Really, I just windmill and smash a lot with rage impact and stomp. Oof. I don't have a good axe to full swing, nor the gear to make it live up to the hype people give it. It looks cool but for me, I can get more done just by bashing, smashing, and windmilling. < u>

    Lance charge is amazing, too!
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Xiokun wrote: »
    I remember for years when I was a younger player, and every time I wanted to take my time using normal combat with a vales shield and a BDK I got from a BDK, a human would always final hit the entire boss in an SM or dungeon room before I got a chance. It seems the tides have changed. Though, as a giant, I can say I don't use full swing as much as others might assume about giants. I use wind guard a lot, but mainly for windmilling, smashing, and charge. Sometimes bash. Really, I just windmill and smash a lot with rage impact and stomp. Oof. I don't have a good axe to full swing, nor the gear to make it live up to the hype people give it. It looks cool but for me, I can get more done just by bashing, smashing, and windmilling. < u>

    Lance charge is amazing, too!

    Comparing the 2 WG+FS is far better than FH in many regards. Its a ranged AoE knockback that cannot be defended or countered and high multiplier values with weapons that directly enhance its effect on top of reforges. Additionally with Erg enhancements their cost vs effectiveness only increases as they can get erg effects while 1h swords can only get damage bonuses, which the 2h weapons will get as well. Plus by virtue of having WG activated means that your defenses are massively increased, you have access to a long running adv heavy stander, and your combat abilities are improved. I actually didn't mind the FS update for giants besides they are annoying during raids since it didn't take away any from human skills and that the skills were still uniquely giant. The problem here is that giants are getting a skill that's basically the same as the human version, but better, with weapons that increase its effectiveness while at the same time humans are getting their skill nerfed.
    Zarric
  • ArjuneArjune
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    edited November 8, 2018
    remember guys they did say that they know people will be upset and they'll work on more balancing. I was really surprised about this update, but I guess it's what KR players have been begging for
    JazmynVeylaine
  • CaptmuffinzCaptmuffinz
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    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.
  • KagaKaga
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    edited November 9, 2018
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.
  • CaptmuffinzCaptmuffinz
    Mabinogi Rep: 625
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    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,960
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    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.

    I don't see how buying gear parts with gold that you WORKED for is considered p2w.
    p2w is when you buy something without putting any effort in game, that's the way I see it.

    Are you telling me people don't put effort when they grind for gold?
    Neyna
  • CaptmuffinzCaptmuffinz
    Mabinogi Rep: 625
    Posts: 13
    Member
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.

    I don't see how buying gear parts with gold that you WORKED for is considered p2w.
    p2w is when you buy something without putting any effort in game, that's the way I see it.

    Are you telling me people don't put effort when they grind for gold?
    It still the same thing. Put some effort to get real money in real world. What do you do in game? Put some effort into get money. Its the same thing.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,960
    Posts: 606
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    edited November 9, 2018
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.

    I don't see how buying gear parts with gold that you WORKED for is considered p2w.
    p2w is when you buy something without putting any effort in game, that's the way I see it.

    Are you telling me people don't put effort when they grind for gold?
    It still the same thing. Put some effort to get real money in real world. What do you do in game? Put some effort into get money. Its the same thing.

    You put effort in real life (work) and you get money out of it. What you want to do with the money is entirely up to you.
    Same goes with in game. You grind for gold to do/buy whatever you want in game.

    Which means you aren't really p2w, since you already put the effort in game to get the gear by grinding for the gold.
    I for one am not a fan of people who p2w. But if they bought a gear set with their own gold that they worked/grinded for, then I don't see how it's p2w.

    At this point you can just believe whatever you want.
    Neyna
  • CaptmuffinzCaptmuffinz
    Mabinogi Rep: 625
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited November 9, 2018
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.

    I don't see how buying gear parts with gold that you WORKED for is considered p2w.
    p2w is when you buy something without putting any effort in game, that's the way I see it.

    Are you telling me people don't put effort when they grind for gold?
    It still the same thing. Put some effort to get real money in real world. What do you do in game? Put some effort into get money. Its the same thing.

    You put effort in real life (work) and you get money out of it. What you want to do with the money is entirely up to you.
    Same goes with in game. You grind for gold to do/buy whatever you want in game.

    Which means you aren't really p2w, since you already put the effort in game to get the gear by grinding for the gold.
    I for one am not a fan of people who p2w. But if they bought a gear set with their own gold that they worked/grinded for, then I don't see how it's p2w.

    At this point you can just believe whatever you want.
    It still count as pay to win any way. Mostly you buy it from other user. Saying it not just you don't want to think it is true. We still paying gold any way to upgrade stuff any way or getting other stuff. Still we have to pay intent bill to even use online.
  • NeynaNeyna
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,730
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    edited November 10, 2018
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    I have to say. What up with person spamming about end game race stuff? Sound like that person relying to much on final hit. Do I really need to remind them about end game static are lock behind pay wall and always long boring grinding for stuff to make them. I don't care you can just buy it from player with in game money. It still count as pay to win any way if you do it like that.

    It only counts as p2w if they buy the gold off someone/bots (which some of these new tryhard "end game elves" do)
    But if they grinded for the gold, I don't see how it's p2w. They grinded for the gold to be able to purchase the gear instead of making it.
    And what does making gears and earning gold in Mabinogi have in common? = grind.

    Its same thing any way in game wise. Don't use botter as excuses. It still buy your way to win any way.

    I don't see how buying gear parts with gold that you WORKED for is considered p2w.
    p2w is when you buy something without putting any effort in game, that's the way I see it.

    Are you telling me people don't put effort when they grind for gold?
    It still the same thing. Put some effort to get real money in real world. What do you do in game? Put some effort into get money. Its the same thing.

    You put effort in real life (work) and you get money out of it. What you want to do with the money is entirely up to you.
    Same goes with in game. You grind for gold to do/buy whatever you want in game.

    Which means you aren't really p2w, since you already put the effort in game to get the gear by grinding for the gold.
    I for one am not a fan of people who p2w. But if they bought a gear set with their own gold that they worked/grinded for, then I don't see how it's p2w.

    At this point you can just believe whatever you want.

    It still count as pay to win any way. Mostly you buy it from other user. Saying it not just you don't want to think it is true. We still paying gold any way to upgrade stuff any way or getting other stuff. Still we have to pay intent bill to even use online.

    So if I were to say you "spammed the Treasure Box Event or any other events that you can obtain reforges from", would you also consider it as "p2w"? Because I can tell you one thing that 70% of my gears were from spamming that event and the rest were doing trades. I only used ONE CREDNE reforge on my knuckles.

    From how I see p2w is that you are throwing Real-Life money onto a game to "cheese it through" or get something you want quicker than people who save up gold for it. Pay to win to me means that they have the higher advantages over free to play players. It's just how you play the game, you don't need to have top tier gears (for this case, it seems like it's only FH and/or max damage for human) to be labelled as pay to win when you put time and efforts into saving up gold to buy them either through SM's, quest or trades.

    If you're saying grinding for gold and then buying gears with gold is considered pay 2 win, are you saying you can "pay to win" life too?

    But if you're saying that "p2w = paying internet bills", then I have nothing else to say. Because that is a ridiculous reason/excuse.