[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

What do people like about spirit weapons?

OrkaneOrkane
Mabinogi Rep: 2,135
Posts: 128
Member
in General Chat
A lot of people have fondness of spirit weapons that I don't really get. People have been asking for a spirit weapon update for years, and I even recall some people complaining about how the Erg system stepped on the proverbial toes of spirit weapons back when Erg weapons first came out in Korea. It seems that many people strongly feel that spirit weapons should be better than special-upgraded weapons, but I feel like I'm missing something here.

Unless I'm missing something the differences between them and regular weapons have always been:
1. More damage than regular weapons
2. Item feeding for growth/maintenance
3. Spirit weapon awakening
4. Different repair system
5. A single character portrait
6. Unable to use some upgrades which are available to other weapons

Was any of this actually fun though? 1 and 6 basically cancel each other out; 2 felt to me like an inconvenience; 3 was basically always irrelevant; 4 was another inconvenience (though this really depends on which weapon you have) and 5 never really felt like anything worth caring about.

This probably seems like a bunch of complaining, but I thought I'd start by explaining my understanding of spirit weapons before asking the main question; why do people like these things and want them to be good?

Comments

  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    I think looking at Eiry can kinda point towards an answer for most people. Like Eiry, spirit weapons weren't the min-maxed weapons we went for at ttlv 5000, they were the personally-crafted weapons of our early Mabinogi days. We picked their type, which weapon, and we gave them a name. Most people who used one went through the ups and the downs in the story with them. Even if it's just "one character portrait", they grew up with the players as they beat the story.

    Taking a different game into consideration, it can compare a bit to Pokemon. If you're on Showdown all day, or into the professional scene, you'll spend a lot of time theorycrafting min-maxed teams. That is really fun in its own right. You IV breed them, egg for the nature you want, craft a perfect skillset. But universally, most people who fall in love with Pokemon didn't do it from the competitive scene. Their best moments were facing Misty with their lv 19 Rattata and a Charmander, or when their Metapod became a Butterfree and learned Confusion. In the big picture Rattata and Butterfree aren't something to get excited about in a world of Mewtwos and Mega-Salamences, but those were the Pokemon that stood by them when they were noobs and helped them in the beginning(and sometimes all the way to the Elite 4). Sometimes the ones we catch or breed out of love and not only min-maxing are the ones we cherish most.

    I have a Glaceon from like 4 gens ago that I still carry over and bring with me on new games once my team reaches her level. In my eyes personally she'll always be best.
    WolfandWolfArjuneImaizumiBronzebreakPolicromaoffwithyourheadsTheNyanCatSheenanajee508skpkion
  • EnaEna
    Mabinogi Rep: 705
    Posts: 68
    Member
    edited December 20, 2018
    people complain everything when they are not get it right or maybe they dont really fully understand how to use it
    i remember ppl had complained about elf race being the weakest of all race until the first elf could solo phantom dungeon. drama end....
    Jayy124Sheena
  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,135
    Posts: 128
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    -snipped to save space

    To paraphrase, it's a mix between sentimentality and wanting something like Eiry (though maybe not as new player focused)? that makes some sense (assuming I'm understanding correctly) but I still have to ask, why get attached to spirit weapons in particular? With the exception of Zaro, I can't think of anyone doing the same with a non-spirit weapon, so what do you think makes them more endearing than a special upgraded weapon for example?
    pawcalypseZephyrmaru
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,695
    Posts: 774
    Member
    "A lot of people have fondness of spirit weapons that I don't really get."

    It's fondness for a friend or companion (even though it's just simulated), because the spirit weapons feel alive.

    ... It feels like I'm explaining the concept of love to an AI here.
    Sherri
  • ZeoZeo
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,000
    Posts: 521
    Member
    I'm not really sure what you meant by people being attached to the spirit weapons because I almost never see anyone doing that.

    I just have been seeing the majority of players asking for some sort of spirit weapon revamp (I'm on the same boat with them) and to be fair... their reasoning for wanting th spirit weapons to be revamped/reworked are completely valid because it's super outdated. As of last several years.. even more than just last several years, actually.. we have been getting lot of weapons that basically are waaaay better than what most spirit weapons would be EVEN if you max'd your spirit weapon out, making it quite useless other than just having a spirit companion with you who give you a benefit (their blessing) every one game day and/or using the Awakening skill.

    I get you on few things listed out of the 6 that would be an inconvenience but who are to say that if we do get the spirit weapon revamp, those things will be removed, making it not as annoying to do so and such?
    ImaizumiTwelie
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,990
    Posts: 342
    Member
    Back in the day's the spirit weapons were the equivalent of S and R grade weapons in comparison.. It had it's own artwork and animation with the attacks and was an ally in combat as you can use their awakening attack a handful of times before charging again. Remember this was when windmill was the most powerful mobbing skill at the time....spirit weapon awakening was the next skill that could help demolish a roomful of formor hoards.

    It is going through a revamp as we speak. KR already stating they are trying to figure out how to rework the spirit weapons.
    Imaizumi
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,205
    Posts: 700
    Member
    Hopyfully Ego bows have a straight arrow laser of mana that pierces def/prot as a spirit awaken. :3
  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,135
    Posts: 128
    Member
    edited December 20, 2018
    "A lot of people have fondness of spirit weapons that I don't really get."

    It's fondness for a friend or companion (even though it's just simulated), because the spirit weapons feel alive.

    ... It feels like I'm explaining the concept of love to an AI here.

    Do you think that spirit weapons offer companionship in a way that's meaningfully different from what any other weapon (or even bare hands) can offer? And if so, how?
    Zeo wrote: »
    I just have been seeing the majority of players asking for some sort of spirit weapon revamp (I'm on the same boat with them) and to be fair... their reasoning for wanting th spirit weapons to be revamped/reworked are completely valid because it's super outdated.

    This is exactly what I mean. Lots of people say the same thing and I agree that spirit weapons would need a revamp to be able to stay relevant, but the exact same can be said of knuckles, cylinders and Iria dungeons but it's far less common to see someone talking about those. Why do you think that is?
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,075
    Posts: 1,684
    Member
    edited December 20, 2018
    I know people who insist on feeding their ingame pets no matter what because they feel bad. Some people just get really attached to anything that can be seen as sentient. Since spirit weapons are supposed to be sentient spirits inside the weapons then people may get attached and want to care for it. The weapons talk to you and eat stuff to gain knowledge. they're 'alive'. As someone who cried my eyes out when the swordians sacrificed themselves and died at the end of the Tales of Destiny video game... I can understand where these people are coming from. They've gone through a journey with these weapons and they are like companions, and they don't like the idea of just tossing them aside like they're a piece of garbage. I am not as sentimental with my own weapon because I created him kinda late in the game, but I'm just saying I can understand why some people are attached

    That being said, I would love a revamp because I really do like the idea and concept of spirit weapons. I'd love to be able to use any spirit in any weapon too, because I switched over from a male blunt to a female wand and I miss my topless smexy dude now XD
  • RoytonRoyton
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,055
    Posts: 38
    Member
    edited December 20, 2018
    True, back in the early days they were endgame potential weapons, now they seem to just be vanity.
    The concept of an ego weapon is still nice, it just needs to be revamped. Maybe even merged with the Erg system.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 19,615
    Posts: 2,197
    Member
    I like my spirit weapon because of the personality.
    They're basically an NPC, after all, except they're also a weapon.
    Having responses to keywords is something that feels too rare in NPCs nowadays, and some keywords have multiple responses, too.
    I like that about them.
    I'd have one of each type of spirit if I could. I just wish they were better weapons than the kinds you can't put spirits in. (i.e. upgraded weapons)
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,795
    Posts: 139
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited December 20, 2018
    It's a way to individualize the player character in game. As any given character can only have 1 spirit it becomes a choice to what you want to work with. If they were all properly balanced (and best in slot) this would add a sense of uniqueness to a persons character as their choice of spirit would dictate the gameplay style they had the most affinity towards. This along with the effort you put into building the spirit with the NPC interaction builds a sense of intimacy between the human psyche and the entity that is their spirit weapon. You baby your weapon, feeding it, repairing it, conversing with it. People want spirits to be good because they want to have a pet that they raised up themselves. A lot of suggestions towards spirits is customization as well, this adds to the sense of raising a unique weapon a player can call their own.

    The hours, days, weeks, years, I spent in building up my level 50 spirit has made it more a part of my character than just another item, before I ego changed to a wand to be meta relevant my cylinder felt like it was just as much a part of my character as all the skills and stats I had invested it. It wasn't just a piece of gear that is fleeting with durability loss and the chance for something to come out and completely invalidate it's existence (although this basically happened with spirits). People want a partner that they can rely on in combat, and to know that the effort put into to raising their virtual pet will always remain BiS.
    THICCthighssavelivespawcalypseImaizumi
  • noobodyzxznoobodyzxz
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,870
    Posts: 255
    Member
    i like it as a weapon that progresses and improves over time
    a weapon u can interact with (and hopefully have more interactions with it in the future)
    beneficial way to dispose of some gems

    but with the arrival of newer equipment,enchants and erg enhancement
    spirit weapons could not compete the way it is right now

    which is why it has to be revamp
    with a few adjustments to how tedious ranking it up and the amount of stat improvements it has
    spirit weapon system has so much potential to it
    a spirit weapon is more than just a weapon
    its an NPC that comes along with u (if only we could talk to blaanid in our blaanid pet)
    a potential new storyline sidequest, new set of skills, transformation, etc.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,030
    Posts: 661
    Member
    When spirit weapons were introduced they were built around the fact that they were the potentially strongest weapons that a player could obtain. Their massive raw stats and unique high damage skills (at the time) marked high level players out as being something special. There was also much emotional attachment to the weapons as they were weapons that could not be rushed to completion, and "grew" as the player grew. People remember looking at spirit weapons as something of a wonder, that which represented the massive potential that could be obtained. Simply put, spirit weapons are one of the oldest things in mabi's history and those that remember what they represented want to see them back to their place again. The problem is that power creep has left the weapons in the dust, prior to special upgrades, it was flat out impossible for any normal weapon to ever reach above 150 Max damage, this made some of the spirit weapon's potential 200 max damage somewhat insane. To put that into perspective, that would be if a weapon could be upgraded to 500 max dmg but still have step 7 R upgrade bonuses. People that remember that proud history of spirit weapons are sadden by the fact that they've fallen into abandonment. The fact that normal upgrades, special upgrades, and erg enhancements have made it so the effort in constructing and growing a spirit weapon offers no real benefit. This is on top of the fact that the developers seem to be going through a "bring old content up to speed" mode but seem to have left spirit weapons completely untouched leaves a bitter taste in many veterans.
    Imaizumi
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,055
    Posts: 2,444
    Member
    People loathe outdated and obsolete content. That is pretty much it. Anything with a high investment and maintenance like Spirit weapons are expected to be at least moderately powerful. It is a fondness for balance, if anything, and for newer content to not replace the older ones.
  • GiegueGiegue
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,490
    Posts: 204
    Member
    Spirit weapons used to be powerful and the best potential damage bringers if you put the work into it, however the content is outdated and abandoned.
    I think a lot of people still create a spirit weapon in the hopes that, with a renewal of the systems, we'll be able give them their strength back.

    There's also a bit of sentimentality with the weapons for a lot of early players as most posts have said. I dont care for the NPCs, but having "that weapon" that you name was pretty cool, and still is pretty cool. Their stat growths were unique to each player because you were meant to feed them junk, broken weapons, and rarely a gem.

    Anything else I say will be obselete to the thread cuz most players have already made the same point, but thats my opinion of it.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,775
    Posts: 1,030
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    I think looking at Eiry can kinda point towards an answer for most people. Like Eiry, spirit weapons weren't the min-maxed weapons we went for at ttlv 5000, they were the personally-crafted weapons of our early Mabinogi days. We picked their type, which weapon, and we gave them a name. Most people who used one went through the ups and the downs in the story with them. Even if it's just "one character portrait", they grew up with the players as they beat the story.

    Taking a different game into consideration, it can compare a bit to Pokemon. If you're on Showdown all day, or into the professional scene, you'll spend a lot of time theorycrafting min-maxed teams. That is really fun in its own right. You IV breed them, egg for the nature you want, craft a perfect skillset. But universally, most people who fall in love with Pokemon didn't do it from the competitive scene. Their best moments were facing Misty with their lv 19 Rattata and a Charmander, or when their Metapod became a Butterfree and learned Confusion. In the big picture Rattata and Butterfree aren't something to get excited about in a world of Mewtwos and Mega-Salamences, but those were the Pokemon that stood by them when they were noobs and helped them in the beginning(and sometimes all the way to the Elite 4). Sometimes the ones we catch or breed out of love and not only min-maxing are the ones we cherish most.

    I have a Glaceon from like 4 gens ago that I still carry over and bring with me on new games once my team reaches her level. In my eyes personally she'll always be best.

    Glalie @ Glalitite
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Return
    - Explosion
    - Earthquake

    it's a good wallbreaker, and there's nothing that will want to try and set up rocks vs mega glalie (at least in ru for what it is lul)
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 40,340
    Posts: 6,239
    Member
    asnscorpio wrote: »
    Back in the day's the spirit weapons were the equivalent of S and R grade weapons in comparison.. It had it's own artwork and animation with the attacks and was an ally in combat as you can use their awakening attack a handful of times before charging again. Remember this was when windmill was the most powerful mobbing skill at the time....spirit weapon awakening was the next skill that could help demolish a roomful of formor hoards.

    It is going through a revamp as we speak. KR already stating they are trying to figure out how to rework the spirit weapons.

    Oh please, they gave generic answers for stuff they are clearly not working on.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,395
    Posts: 1,437
    Member
    Orkane wrote: »
    A lot of people have fondness of spirit weapons that I don't really get. People have been asking for a spirit weapon update for years, and I even recall some people complaining about how the Erg system stepped on the proverbial toes of spirit weapons back when Erg weapons first came out in Korea. It seems that many people strongly feel that spirit weapons should be better than special-upgraded weapons, but I feel like I'm missing something here.

    Unless I'm missing something the differences between them and regular weapons have always been:
    1. More damage than regular weapons
    2. Item feeding for growth/maintenance
    3. Spirit weapon awakening
    4. Different repair system
    5. A single character portrait
    6. Unable to use some upgrades which are available to other weapons

    Was any of this actually fun though? 1 and 6 basically cancel each other out; 2 felt to me like an inconvenience; 3 was basically always irrelevant; 4 was another inconvenience (though this really depends on which weapon you have) and 5 never really felt like anything worth caring about.

    This probably seems like a bunch of complaining, but I thought I'd start by explaining my understanding of spirit weapons before asking the main question; why do people like these things and want them to be good?

    Ur missing one other reason. Unique dye schemes. Some weapons uniqueness can only be obtain via this method and abusing the transfer method. ^_^
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,345
    Posts: 422
    Member
    TL;DR: They appealed to many different player types successfully, and are somewhat nostalgic in ideology.

    Ego weapons give the impression of responding, thus being as 'alive' as any other NPC in the game.
    Some people bond to them because of that; they have a 'pocket NPC'. This is not a whole lot different in my mind from those who fangirl/boy about CP Yui/FSNite puppets 'talking' to you.

    They were also intended to be the 'very high investment, very high reward' weaponry in the game; other weapons had some-moderate investment for some improvement (see 222 Broadsword prevalence for the LONGEST time), and their was a more significant progression to their gain in power, both visually with colouration, and with the obvious increase in stats. Since stat gain was not also 'across the board', people who enjoyed strategy could prioritize different methods to increase certain stats moreso than others, since this was back when 'max damage only' wasn't the most important stat.

    Additionally, they had quite appealing unique attacks/animation, that was to the same level of prestige as demi/trans (they all have their own cinematics, at least).

    Not to mention the 'forced' bonding to the mechanic when newbs where given Eiry; players now had experience FROM THE START with egos been informative and appealing.

    There was also the spark of relevance when they added the Cylinders; I personally thought that they would continue to keep that (if nothing else) component of the game up-to-date.

    Just like most of the old content, they have been significantly neutered in terms of difficulty (5/10cm gem events, gem powder, spirit digestive powder), but I believe many others hold the same hope I do that some day they will return to their full glory. I mean hell, we still only have half the max level?