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Race Changes

BurritoCat_xDBurritoCat_xD
Mabinogi Rep: 320
Posts: 6
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in Feedback and Suggestions
I personally would like to see the ability to change your characters race through rebirthing into a different race character card, or even a special one. I for one don't want to throw away all I've done on a character just to be a different race. Even if it's once per characters life time I would at least like the choice. ;-;
Dragoolfire

Comments

  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
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    *Giant population intensifies*
    Kensamaofmari
  • GretaGreta
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    *Giant population intensifies*

    ^^^^ Lol true.
    Kensamaofmari
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,545
    Posts: 423
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    *Giant population intensifies*

    ^^^^ Lol true.

    I mean, it's been on my mind a long time since I saw a guildie run lance + Guard Cylinder; I can use that + Merlin knux to have 4 skillsets in one gearset which is really all I'm interested in. +Tankiness is also great too, of course.
    Kensamaofmari
  • BurritoCat_xDBurritoCat_xD
    Mabinogi Rep: 320
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    Not even just giants, (Even though that's what I want low key xD), a friend of mine wants to become an elf sense they decided they want to end game chain blade. And adding the ability to change race would really put a damper on people selling strong accounts which I hear is an issue.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,500
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    We dont need this.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,190
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    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    BronzebreakGTCvActium
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,305
    Posts: 467
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    WE DO NEED THIS!!! SMH
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,110
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    To be fair lore wise its possible cause Shakespeare says he has rebirthed into elves and giants (and stolen their unique skills). Plus a race change would help shift populations and not alienate any players of one race when an update comes along that shoots out both their knee caps.
    Bronzebreak
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,475
    Posts: 941
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    *Giant population intensifies*

    Only thing thats gonna happen.
    Ez mode race take zero damage while skipping 4 years/500mil of grinding?
    Everyone signs up
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,465
    Posts: 7,392
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    Greta wrote: »
    *Giant population intensifies*

    ^^^^ Lol true.

    I mean, it's been on my mind a long time since I saw a guildie run lance + Guard Cylinder; I can use that + Merlin knux to have 4 skillsets in one gearset which is really all I'm interested in. +Tankiness is also great too, of course.

    Reliable and all around.
    Bronzebreak
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,500
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    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,545
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    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.

    I... really doubt that adding increased functionality will cause people to complain about the loss of functionality that would be obvious when such a transaction is done...

    That's like saying we shouldn't add name changes, because people might have their original name taken by someone else.
    GretaDragoolfireAlexLightBurritoCat_xD
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,305
    Posts: 467
    Member
    I have been waiting for this since Elves and Giants were added. Thinking of race change was the ONLY reason I went and changed to Dark Knight. Please I want this so bad.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,680
    Posts: 3,176
    Member
    edited April 18, 2019
    Imbalance of the game-races is an unsolvable problem, unless you make their differences cosmetic only. Allowing free unlimited rebirth to different game-races will reduce complaining but not solve the problem. Making the game-races different by more than cosmetic reasons is inherently more interesting though but then does not solve the imbalance problem. So what can be done? I think the problem lies in how the "ideal" situation is envisioned.

    The ideal situation is envisioned as having a game-race that's best at melee, one that's best at range, and one that's best at technomancy. There are two problems with this approach.

    First, such a solution, assumes a World of Warcraft raid-like approach to the game where you have your tanks, damage dealers, and party auxiliaries whom are usually healers and buffers. Such an approach requires many players cooperating. What about folks that prefer solo play? In Mabinogi there are A LOT of them.

    Second, this approach does not break the game down to what is fundamentally happening in it. It all comes down to this: you are either fighting PC's or NPC's. When you do the former, it's called PvP. When you do the later it's called PvE.

    PvP is inherently a soloists activity. In one-on-one combat melee versus range versus technomancy can never be balanced; one will always be best. If game-races are divided down these lines then one will always be best at PvP. Change how these combat styles work and you may change which game-race is best at PvP, but in the end one and only one will always prevail.

    You can make similar arguments for PvE, but PvE need not be a soloists activity. The thing is there are many solo players who prefer PvE to PvP, so they will be sensitive to game-racial imbalance.

    If you allow unlimited rebirth to differing game-races (which I think they should) you could, say, rebirth to the best PvE game-race, and build up your supply of AP. Then, you could rebirth as the best PvP game-race, spend those AP, and go to town.

    So, now we get to the core of the problem: we have two approaches to the game but three game-races. The issue with game-racial imbalance is not with the weakest game-race but with the middling game-race. Depending on if you are PvP or PvE focused the weakest game-race to you will be the one that is strongest to the folks focused on the other approach. That leaves a game-race in the middle that is not bad at PvP but not best and is not bad at PvE but not best. This is hardly something to be excited about. With unlimited game-race changing rebirth why would you bother with such a game-race at all other than to complete your skill collection.

    Can we come up with a third approach; a PvX? Well, not really. But there may still be something we can do. In combat games, some units are good at one-on-one but lousy at many-on-many and vice versa. Take the very first Warcraft game: a single Demon will always beat a single Water Elemental. Two-on-two is a toss up, while above that the Water Elementals always win. Perhaps the middling game-race can be made to have an emergent advantage when there are many of them together; an advantage that is beyond what numbers alone give the other two game-races. Then, for activities where groups matter, that would be the game-race of choice.

    There are some achievements in the game that require you to be part of a group, so that middling game-race would best see you through that hurdle.
    Bronzebreak
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,500
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    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.

    I... really doubt that adding increased functionality will cause people to complain about the loss of functionality that would be obvious when such a transaction is done...

    That's like saying we shouldn't add name changes, because people might have their original name taken by someone else.

    With how people are on this game people will complain. They complain about everything and anything. I can see someone for example switching from a giant and losing the entire range tab and all the dex that comes with it and then complaining about it.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,545
    Posts: 423
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.

    I... really doubt that adding increased functionality will cause people to complain about the loss of functionality that would be obvious when such a transaction is done...

    That's like saying we shouldn't add name changes, because people might have their original name taken by someone else.

    With how people are on this game people will complain. They complain about everything and anything. I can see someone for example switching from a giant and losing the entire range tab and all the dex that comes with it and then complaining about it.

    People always complain, but that doesn't mean that it means they're 'right'. Losing skills and stats because your character changes races should be obvious, but I agree that they should make the consequences apparent for people who don't fully think it through. Forums are 99% complaints against the game or one another, anyway.

    Also, sometimes people DON'T complain... like when the dodge event gets postponed, kek.
    BurritoCat_xD
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,680
    Posts: 3,176
    Member
    edited April 19, 2019
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.

    I... really doubt that adding increased functionality will cause people to complain about the loss of functionality that would be obvious when such a transaction is done...

    That's like saying we shouldn't add name changes, because people might have their original name taken by someone else.

    With how people are on this game people will complain. They complain about everything and anything. I can see someone for example switching from a giant and losing the entire range tab and all the dex that comes with it and then complaining about it.

    People always complain, but that doesn't mean that it means they're 'right'. Losing skills and stats because your character changes races should be obvious, but I agree that they should make the consequences apparent for people who don't fully think it through. Forums are 99% complaints against the game or one another, anyway.

    Also, sometimes people DON'T complain... like when the dodge event gets postponed, kek.

    If they can freely rebirth between races indefinitely then none of that will matter. If they don't like it then they can rebirth back. If they still complain then they can join the canasta group at the retirement home, because their children won't be visiting them any time soon since they complain too much.
    GretaBurritoCat_xD
  • DARKCloudDARKCloud
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,040
    Posts: 39
    Member
    I think it should be a one time choice or when BIG changes are made it should be considered. With Vision of Ladeca coming out of the blue, i can honestly say elf archery isnt comparable to human archery. I understand they should excel at their niche, but it feel almost too high with an added 400% aim rate + 100% aim on moving targets. This passive is so OP in comparison to any other buff in the game including the other ladeca buffs (giants get a decent dmg boost, and humans get what giants and elves already have : speed). For the most part i dont mind starting over, but what kills me is the life skill grind and mats needed starting a new character. I'd buy a race change card for 200 maybe a lil more just to make it more exclusive :/ Nexon take my money. ALSO SIDE TOPIC SINCE WE'RE ON TOPIC OF CHARACTERS: 2nd titles should have universal use to all characters on an account. JS.
    BurritoCat_xD
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,110
    Posts: 661
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We I dont need this.

    No. we don't need this. People would be mad when the stats they get from skills is removed because each race has their skills that are specific to each race. People would be mad when they lose the stats, the reforges, the bound gear they will never be able to use anymore. I would rather not see people complain on the forums.

    I... really doubt that adding increased functionality will cause people to complain about the loss of functionality that would be obvious when such a transaction is done...

    That's like saying we shouldn't add name changes, because people might have their original name taken by someone else.

    With how people are on this game people will complain. They complain about everything and anything. I can see someone for example switching from a giant and losing the entire range tab and all the dex that comes with it and then complaining about it.

    Except we have a reasonable precedence for this, rebirths between genders. Since equipment is locked behind gender wall sometimes, changing your gender may lock you out of combat specific gear that you've already built or have available to you. If by your logic that people will complain that we get locked out of gear for changing genders, then we should not have gender rebirths.

    The fact is that people are advocating for additional options in the game and you are arguing against having said option on the basis of "people will complain". The question is, how does the addition of this option be "something we don't need"? There are specific race exclusive skills that were added before the time of some character creation, to say that an addition is gated off because someone made a character long before the addition is just dissatisfying. As people grow, their tastes and interest change over time, someone that's played a giant might be interested in doing archery, but with mabi's system, the level of investment in a character is immense, and the loss of event specific items like titles, items, and other things means that there's an investment wall that not everyone is able to overcome if they want to cater to their ever changing tastes. A race change option would allow people to experiment or cater to new tastes, or even just try out a new look.

    Don't insinuate that *we* as a community don't need or even don't want it. This is a game, options that allow a player to customize their level of enjoyment is always a bonus. If such a change is added, you are not required to change anything, you can ignore the feature and go about your OWN play style. Do not think for the moment that just because YOU don't want or need this feature means that someone ELSE doesn't want or need it.
    BurritoCat_xDBronzebreakHusbear
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,680
    Posts: 3,176
    Member
    edited April 22, 2019
    Let's take the nay-sayers at face value, that maybe the end result might not be universally well received. Given free unlimited rebirth between races as there is now for gender, thus giving a player a means to undo an action they regret, then race change seems unlikely to be a problem. If race change is only allowed once though, then there might be some "buyer's remorse". There is a precedent, in game, for this however: Paladin to Dark Knight; that's a one-way street. I suspect there may be some Dark Knights out there that wish they hadn't changed, but this has hardly destroyed the game. To be fair though, I think they should allow changing back and forth between Paladin and Dark Knight as often as one wants; I suspect that would be well received. If it breaks game-lore then who gives a seal (en Français). Like the old aphorism goes: "If it feels good, do it!" Anyway, I digress. If they brought in race change it'd be likely unlimited as gender change is.

    Speaking of skills going bye-bye with race change, there is also a precedent for that, in game, as well: changing Goddess Alignment. No one has complained about that and it is likely so because one can do so as often as they want.

    Okay then, are there any other changes that may happen that haven't been foreseen by most? Yep. What happens if you are a human married to an elf and either you or your elf become giants? That's a big can of worms. So E/G alignment has to go bye-bye. Mind you I suspect most would be okay with that. Giants will be able to carry any human. I suspect most would be okay with that. Being able to carry elves as well would actually be a separate and non-necessary requirement for unlimited race change. Elf/Giant marriage has to be allowed. I suspect most would be okay with that. Marriage venue has to be unrestricted. I suspect most would be okay with that. EvG/PvD has to go bye-bye. But that can be replaced with a "willing to fight" flag that would allow Paladin to Paladin or Falcon to Dark Knight, say, and so on. I suspect most would be okay with that.

    Seems like mostly a win/win. Sure some won't like it, for whatever reason, but they'll get over it.
    BurritoCat_xDBronzebreak