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Why are necroed threads being locked?

Donk3yDonk3y
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edited June 20, 2019 in General Chat
In every other field, you don't want to have a million threads for the same thing, so you'd avoid it as much as possible, and you'd update the old one, rather than create a new one.

So what's the reasoning behind just closing every thread that's been revived after like more than 3 months?

Comments

  • GretaGreta
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    edited June 20, 2019
    Because it often causes confusion towards users.

    I got better question though...

    Why forum poll, a freaking forum feature, is labeled as petition??????????

    I understand if OP links a petition in a thread because that is against CoC, but why a simple forum poll asking for players opinions is literally considered as a petition?
    SherriWolfsinger
  • noobodyzxznoobodyzxz
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,160
    Posts: 299
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    edited June 20, 2019
    I think there should be a "gray area" with necrobumping
    like if a certain player asks about a topic that has been discussed weeks or months ago and didnt know about it
    or if an issue that has died out without getting resolved and it got fixed weeks or months after
    or thread that got derailed too much and died out leaving the original topic unanswered or unresolved

    maybe there should be a separate category dedicated to discussing old threads
    and when someone asks about an old topic it gets redirected or merged with the old thread
    this would prevent the confusion in general chat probably

    the solution I see right now is simply commenting a link leading to the old thread
    that have the same topic as the new thread
    to serve as a "reference" for the new thread or to inform that the topic was already discussed in the past
    Faithrend
  • AquasolAquasol
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    Donk3y wrote: »
    In every other field, you don't want to have a million threads for the same thing, so you'd avoid it as much as possible, and you'd update the old one, rather than create a new one.

    So what's the reasoning behind just closing every thread that's been revived after like more than 3 months?

    It’s literally written into the forums’ rules, which is the ultimate answer:
    Posting Rules and Regulations
    - Intentionally necro-bumping will result in disciplinary action.

    A more detailed definition can be found here, but basically as to why, there are complications that can arise from it, like confusion over events or already-resolved situations being brought back. It also just simply looks bad when someone brings back a 20-something page thread just to say “I love lamp”.
    LokitinFaithrendDarkpixie99
  • FreakoutcastFreakoutcast
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    Does this apply to the marketplace threads?

    The marketplace forum isn't really that active anyway and it would seem silly to make a whole new post when you're still trying to buy/sell the same stuff. Bumping stuff there wouldn't really cause confusion since nothing is necessarily time based considering it's not related to events or anything, only items. If anything, it would keep the forum cleaner (not that it's cluttered by any stretch of the imagination).

    I'm especially concerned about this because I have a very long lasting post there (trying to buy all transformation medals in the game) that will need edits and price changes over time. I don't plan on bumping it every day because I want to avoid spam, but if like 3 months from now I decide to change my prices I might want to move it up a little to let people know.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Does this apply to the marketplace threads?

    It's alright to bump marketpalce threads. Just don't make it a competition to keep your thread as the most recent at all hours of the day and you'll be alright.
    Faithrend
  • GretaGreta
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    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.
    SherriTreesWolfsinger
  • JJJJ
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    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    We should make a petition to make them answer the ques-- ohwaitnevermind.
    GretaKetsuekiOfRuairiSherri
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I haven't seen any of the recent threads removed for that reason so I don't know if this applies, but if the forum poll's answers are "yes" and "FREAKING YES" (same response with different flavor text) it becomes a petition rather than a poll.
    DraechLokitinWolfsinger
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I would say you got ignored because of the wording in your question.
    From what I've seen on polls that have been locked, many of them use wording that appear to be a request or plea for the topic, in which they interpret as a petition, because the creator of the poll could be suggesting a petition, especially with the options in the polls to work like a petition. I may not have seen all the ones that got locked, but the few that I've seen are very well in line with petitions.
    BuffalosCoolAidSherriDraech
  • GretaGreta
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    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I would say you got ignored because of the wording in your question.
    From what I've seen on polls that have been locked, many of them use wording that appear to be a request or plea for the topic, in which they interpret as a petition, because the creator of the poll could be suggesting a petition, especially with the options in the polls to work like a petition. I may not have seen all the ones that got locked, but the few that I've seen are very well in line with petitions.

    There was no petition and making a suggestion or asking a question and including a poll in it is not even close to be a petition.
    Negumiko
  • CoolAidCoolAid
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    Greta wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I would say you got ignored because of the wording in your question.
    From what I've seen on polls that have been locked, many of them use wording that appear to be a request or plea for the topic, in which they interpret as a petition, because the creator of the poll could be suggesting a petition, especially with the options in the polls to work like a petition. I may not have seen all the ones that got locked, but the few that I've seen are very well in line with petitions.

    There was no petition and making a suggestion or asking a question and including a poll in it is not even close to be a petition.

    If you can stretch it, if it's a suggestion along with a poll could be considered a petition. Ofc that's all in vagueness
  • NegumikoNegumiko
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    Greta wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I would say you got ignored because of the wording in your question.
    From what I've seen on polls that have been locked, many of them use wording that appear to be a request or plea for the topic, in which they interpret as a petition, because the creator of the poll could be suggesting a petition, especially with the options in the polls to work like a petition. I may not have seen all the ones that got locked, but the few that I've seen are very well in line with petitions.

    There was no petition and making a suggestion or asking a question and including a poll in it is not even close to be a petition.

    Agreed, suggestions with polls does not always mean it is a instant petition. another thread was called a petition by a VFM and locked shortly after even though it is just a harmless poll asking if players think Alexina should have been part of the merge:
    http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/20010/alexina-should-be-merged-with-nao-as-well
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I like how not one, but two VFM's ingored my question.

    I haven't seen any of the recent threads removed for that reason so I don't know if this applies, but if the forum poll's answers are "yes" and "FREAKING YES" (same response with different flavor text) it becomes a petition rather than a poll.

    the thread I linked above made on May 9th doesn't appear to have the same responses with different text, it is simply a yes or no poll. do you think that thread qualifies as a petition? if so please explain how so players will now how to word polls better in the future.
    SherriGreta
  • AquasolAquasol
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    A poll is for feedback/to see different opinions, typically out of curiosity. A petition is something to try and force or otherwise coerce Nexon/the staff to do something by way of sheer pressure, and while they used to be somewhat tolerated in the past, were abused by members and had a tendency to break out into fights— so they haven’t been allowed for a few years now.

    To give a little insight on that thread Negumiko linked, the poll itself was innocuous. But it was the wording of the thread itself that led itself to being deemed a petition.
    Veylaine
  • GretaGreta
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    Weird logic. How a poll is even pressuring you... It's a best form of feedback.
    Sherri
  • JJJJ
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    I think by the same logic, any poll in the "Feedback and Suggestions" forum a petition. Or even if there is no poll, just people replying would be a petition. People asking for server merges, name changes, bringing back events, etc are all at risk of being petitions based on how the moderator feels. I'm not necessarily against petitions, but I think clear rules are needed. Right now it feels like it depends on the feelings of the moderators, and most players are not psychic. Who else agrees with me?
    GretaSherriNegumikoFaithrend
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    Weird logic. How a poll is even pressuring you... It's a best form of feedback.

    Again, it's not the poll that's the issue. Polls are great for feedback, it's how the creator of the thread/poll words the topics.

    Saying "Please give us" "How many people think they should do this" in my opinion falls into the line of becoming a petition rather than a legitimate poll. I can say that, having taken a political science course and in my statistics courses during college that talked about polls, it is important to have neutral wording to be a legitimate poll.

    For an example, here is what I think falls into a petition in my opinion
    "Can Nexon please update homestead background geography from the current dumps/wastelands?"
    Yes/No

    versus of the same topic
    "Do you think homestead background geographies should be updated? If yes, why. If no, why."
    Yes, because.../No, because...

    It is of the same topic, #1 is recommending a plea for them to take the action, while #2 would promote further discussion on debate to generate useful feedback.

    That's just how I view it, which may different from others.

    While on necroing threads, there's no reason for any complaints to bring back a thread where discussion has ended for a long while, as the rules have stated that you may start a new thread of the same topic if you think there can be further discussion.
    VeylaineSherriWolfsinger
  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited June 21, 2019
    If someone responds to a thread 30+ days after the last post, this is defined as necroing. When a Moderator discovers this they close the thread. They have been ordered to do so, and are to do so without exception. Don't blame the moderators, they're just doing as ordered. There are no exceptions so as to not create any ambiguities in enforcement of the rule by the moderators.

    The real question is why the rule is in place in the first place. What it comes down to is that it seems to be a common practice on internet. So the rule is made and enforced, in the absence of why it actually existed in the first place, and instead is so because "everywhere else does it too", and that is the limit of their thinking about it. Personally, I think it would be better if this policy was cancelled.

    For now though, you have to make a new thread and call it say: "<the old thread name> continued" and for the first post say something like:
    Since link<the old thread> is over 30 days old, I have started this new thread as per site rules.

    <quote whoever you are quoting from the old thread; you can save their quote in the clip-board>
    bla bla bla

    . . . um? Yeah. <sarcasm>That is soooo much better isn't it?</sarcasm>
  • KouyioueKouyioue
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    edited June 21, 2019
    [Reads title]

    [Reads newest post]

    They know.
  • Donk3yDonk3y
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    Helsa wrote: »
    The real question is why the rule is in place in the first place. What it comes down to is that it seems to be a common practice on internet. So the rule is made and enforced, in the absence of why it actually existed in the first place, and instead is so because "everywhere else does it too", and that is the limit of their thinking about it. Personally, I think it would be better if this policy was cancelled.

    But that doesn't happen everywhere. On most professional forums and communities, what you DON'T want to do is make a new thread (or ticket) for the same thing over and over again. It's better to necro an old one, than to create a new one (ofc, if it's been closed, you should create a new one).

    Anybody that works in IT, dev, ops, etc. and uses something like Jira can vouch for this :)
    Xafnir
  • JJJJ
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    Donk3y wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    The real question is why the rule is in place in the first place. What it comes down to is that it seems to be a common practice on internet. So the rule is made and enforced, in the absence of why it actually existed in the first place, and instead is so because "everywhere else does it too", and that is the limit of their thinking about it. Personally, I think it would be better if this policy was cancelled.

    But that doesn't happen everywhere. On most professional forums and communities, what you DON'T want to do is make a new thread (or ticket) for the same thing over and over again. It's better to necro an old one, than to create a new one (ofc, if it's been closed, you should create a new one).

    Anybody that works in IT, dev, ops, etc. and uses something like Jira can vouch for this :)

    This is an excellent point. If we want to make a suggestion that was made 2 years ago and we can't necro the thread, are we meant to bloat the Suggestions forum with more threads? Making a new thread every 30 days? Would this really "keep things clean and organized"? Or are we meant to let older suggestions be forgotten even if they become more popular but never be allowed to discuss them again?
    I'm genuinely curious on what I should do if I want party PvP like we had in the EU servers. Do I make a new thread or do I use the forums search function to bump this thread?
    Sherri