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  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,395
    Posts: 741
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Inflation is a problem but it's also an unsolvable issue. If players can choose to avoid gold sinks they will. If they enforce using gold sinks then the cure is likely going to be worse than the cold. The only way to be immune to inflation is to be a seller yourself. The super-rich in this game are so because they put the time, effort, and in many cases expense into being so; it's a game, no one was born wealthy. Unless everyone is willing to do the same there is just going to be a two-tiered virtual society. Doesn't this kind of thing happen in every multiplayer online game?


    Don't talk like the massive amounts of gold in Alexina wasn't brought in by cheaters botting shadow missions, and MA tourney after missions got nerfed. This isn't "time and effort". It's automation and abuse of the terms of service.

    Don't talk like there isn't a real world value for Mabinogi gold.

    Don't talk like there isn't a huge RMT market on Facebook/Discord buying and trading gold and that abusers simply pay for the gold they need to buy gear and fashion.

    Don't talk like Nexon didn't drag their feet when it came to banning the cheaters. Don't talk like Nexon didn't let the cheaters off easy even if they caught them. Don't talk like Nexon didn't unban the cheaters when they pleaded.

    I know most low-to-mid level players aren't in the loop for these issues and maybe you aren't either, but if you are - pretending that Alexina's inflation is some kind of natural economic growth is wilfully ignoring the outright CHEATING done by certain endgame cliques on the server. Stop letting them get away with it.

    The reason many legit endgame players left is because they didn't see the point in playing a game where you could simply bot in all your money to buy gear and rebirth potions. Why waste time playing when no rules were being enforced? There is no fun in playing a game with cheaters.

    Do you know those cheaters view legit casual players with contempt and disrespect because they aren't as strong as those who cheated their way up? Players like you are less than dirt to them because you play legitimately. Let that sink in for a bit. This is the cancerous mentality we're dealing with.

    Do you know how they justify their cheating? "It doesn't affect other people, only me". Yeah right, as if the huge price tags on everything don't scare off new and returning players alike. As if it doesn't create an additional unnecessary hurdle for those of us who don't buy gold.

    Stop pretending that this is normal. The inflation is caused by player abuse that went unchecked for far too long while Nexon dismissed reports and complaints.

    And for those of you who realise that the abusers have moved to Nao and that you're already seeing the effects - it might not be too late to put a little more pressure onto Nexon to get this disease stopped. I mean, if you're not part of the problem. I know certain forum members are.
    GretaWolfsingerDraechSebastianWallSeriesDanievictriaSherri
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,550
    Posts: 6,740
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.
    KensamaofmariWolfsingerDraech
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    Well...the stronger the players the quicker the gold.

    Alex had quite a lot of powerful players who want full roll gears making gold come by very easy, also it USED to have the most players compared to all servers bringing more gold to the market. Welp now that both servers Alex and Nao had a bit similar player traffic (ironic Nexon was right about both being similar), it all comes down to player ability and the will to spam.

    Although that is not the only reason, you have GOLD SELLERS and NEXON GIVING AWAY GOLD LIKE CANDY IN EVENTS to thank for. Including buying low to sell high but that is perfectly normal for profit "Deal with it".

    Whats done is done, no return unless Nexon pull a full gold wipe and re-balancing gold rewards but that will peeve a lot of players making them leave the game. Player controlled economy will always bound to turn out like this one day anyways which can be avoided if you just "STOP buying at a ridiculous price".

    So was gold inflation Nexon's fault? Well they had a play in it but was it entirely the fault of Nexon? No, players had every chance to avoid this only to press on.

    to conclude...STOP BUYING AT A HIGH PRICE, stop it, get some help, seek a doctor to help with your spending habits. Your going giving them more power over you.
    pawcalypseWallSeries
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,395
    Posts: 741
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    Greta wrote: »
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.


    Correct, I know folks who have been kicked from parties because they were trying to draw attention to the cheating. It's toxic and runs deeper than people think.

    The botters were so brazen, at one point, the leader of a certain endgame guild was found botting skill training in Tir Chonaill ch1. We know he was botting because we managed to lure the foxes and trap his character onto a fence, where he did this little sequence of twitching around and throwing out an occasional focused fist.

    Eventually the actual human being came back to log into his other character for daily public girg raids. (NGL I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when he found himself stuck on a fence.)

    Can you imagine publicly cheating at Tir ch1? They were just that confident that Nexon wasn't gonna ban them. He still plays to this day.

    Don't name them if you know who, it's unfortunately against the forums rules. Speaking of which, I'm probably more likely to get banned for bringing up the existence for RMTs, than they are for actually doing RMTs. Just a few months ago there was someone on these forums screeching about gold inflation when I've personally seen them offering paypal for stuff before. Gee, wonder what's the real reason they're so upset about the real world gold value getting worse?
    AlshianKensamaofmariWolfsingerGretapawcalypseDraechSebastianKingEphyDanievictriaSherri
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 48,765
    Posts: 7,467
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    Greta wrote: »
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.

    It is what it is or you will get viciously blackballed by the real leaders of this community. I was getting constantly trolled and excluded everywhere. But I proved myself to the "mafia" as a neutral. I no longer report anyone for modding, rmt, ext. Quite frankly back in the day I thought I was helping this community. But now (especially with the way Nexon is) you can do whatever you want. I don't care.

    Are people doing these things? Oh yeah totally, lol. Am I going to report them? Nope!
    Kensamaofmaripawcalypse
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    Here in Mafia town the one with the biggest ego, takes on the biggest RYU, only to get shoryuken to the jaw. o 3o

    ...I'm bored :(
    pawcalypse
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,494
    Member
    Who's paying those 100m price tags on the newest skirt in town? They're just as much to blame.

    As a legit seller who's afraid to undercut my stock when I can meet the demand and gain a similar profit. Hard to complain when my old 10-20m stocks of goods are suddenly worth 30-40m. I just recently sold an old item I've been hoarding to liquidate worth 50m back then for 160m recently. A 300%+ profit.

    As a buyer, I'm never spending that amount of gold unless it's for exceptional Uber rare event exclusives like my FSN complete set which totaled 600m becasue I have no choice.
    pawcalypse
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,820
    Posts: 7,523
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.

    It is what it is or you will get viciously blackballed by the real leaders of this community. I was getting constantly trolled and excluded everywhere. But I proved myself to the "mafia" as a neutral. I no longer report anyone for modding, rmt, ext. Quite frankly back in the day I thought I was helping this community. But now (especially with the way Nexon is) you can do whatever you want. I don't care.

    Are people doing these things? Oh yeah totally, lol. Am I going to report them? Nope!

    When the cancer is at its late stages, treatment is no longer effective.
    WolfsingerGretapawcalypseCrimsọnRadiant DawnSherri
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,550
    Posts: 6,740
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.

    It is what it is or you will get viciously blackballed by the real leaders of this community. I was getting constantly trolled and excluded everywhere. But I proved myself to the "mafia" as a neutral. I no longer report anyone for modding, rmt, ext. Quite frankly back in the day I thought I was helping this community. But now (especially with the way Nexon is) you can do whatever you want. I don't care.

    Are people doing these things? Oh yeah totally, lol. Am I going to report them? Nope!

    When the cancer is at its late stages, treatment is no longer effective.

    Big oof.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,990
    Posts: 3,281
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    Eralea wrote: »
    Don't talk like the massive amounts of gold in Alexina wasn't brought in by cheaters botting shadow missions, and MA tourney after missions got nerfed. This isn't "time and effort". It's automation and abuse of the terms of service.

    The high prices are set by the people selling the goods. Those people have the goods to sell either because they spent real money getting NX to buy them, or they patiently built themselves up over time via buy low and sell high. Gold sellers allow inflation to occur quicker, but even without them there would still be inflation.
  • pawcalypsepawcalypse
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,305
    Posts: 486
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    Rhey wrote: »
    Who's paying those 100m price tags on the newest skirt in town? They're just as much to blame.

    As a legit seller who's afraid to undercut my stock when I can meet the demand and gain a similar profit. Hard to complain when my old 10-20m stocks of goods are suddenly worth 30-40m. I just recently sold an old item I've been hoarding to liquidate worth 50m back then for 160m recently. A 300%+ profit.

    As a buyer, I'm never spending that amount of gold unless it's for exceptional Uber rare event exclusives like my FSN complete set which totaled 600m becasue I have no choice.

    Thank you Rhey! In the early days, people were pissed off at sellers that wanted to sell for 3x or even 10x as much. Now it's a competition to sell anything for a high amount, like it should be this way. Every now and then I feel like the market is making everybody sell high for no reason. You either sell high or get ripped off, whatever...
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,990
    Posts: 3,281
    Member
    Rhey wrote: »
    Who's paying those 100m price tags on the newest skirt in town?

    The highest-end markets are the uber-rich buying from the uber-rich. Even among the top 1%-ers there is social stratification.
    Sherri
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,820
    Posts: 7,523
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »
    Who's paying those 100m price tags on the newest skirt in town?

    The highest-end markets are the uber-rich buying from the uber-rich. Even among the top 1%-ers there is social stratification.

    100 mil price tag, 10 cent quality.
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,395
    Posts: 741
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Don't talk like the massive amounts of gold in Alexina wasn't brought in by cheaters botting shadow missions, and MA tourney after missions got nerfed. This isn't "time and effort". It's automation and abuse of the terms of service.

    The high prices are set by the people selling the goods. Those people have the goods to sell either because they spent real money getting NX to buy them, or they patiently built themselves up over time via buy low and sell high. Gold sellers allow inflation to occur quicker, but even without them there would still be inflation.

    Setting high prices would be pointless if no one had the gold to pay them. The only reason sellers can set high prices in the first place is because cheaters and the people who buy gold from cheaters are able to afford it.

    Legit players and merchants were not the ones who generated 30 million of gold from SMs every single day for most of a year. This isn't an exaggeration - that's the actual number the botters bragged about. Stop conflating normal inflation with the banana republic levels of hyperinflation that Alexina experienced.

    People reported the cheaters and Nexon failed to stop them. It could have been stopped in the early stages, around two years ago, but instead it was allowed to continue festering for months, while the botters and multi-clienters got more and more brazen and openly bragged about getting away with their cheating.

    It's exasperating enough to see these smug jackasses talk about why it's pointless to play legitimately, you don't need to help them out by downplaying the role they had in this economic cancer.
    KensamaofmaripawcalypseSherri
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 32,820
    Posts: 7,523
    Member
    Eralea wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Don't talk like the massive amounts of gold in Alexina wasn't brought in by cheaters botting shadow missions, and MA tourney after missions got nerfed. This isn't "time and effort". It's automation and abuse of the terms of service.

    The high prices are set by the people selling the goods. Those people have the goods to sell either because they spent real money getting NX to buy them, or they patiently built themselves up over time via buy low and sell high. Gold sellers allow inflation to occur quicker, but even without them there would still be inflation.

    Setting high prices would be pointless if no one had the gold to pay them. The only reason sellers can set high prices in the first place is because cheaters and the people who buy gold from cheaters are able to afford it.

    Legit players and merchants were not the ones who generated 30 million of gold from SMs every single day for most of a year. This isn't an exaggeration - that's the actual number the botters bragged about. Stop conflating normal inflation with the banana republic levels of hyperinflation that Alexina experienced.

    People reported the cheaters and Nexon failed to stop them. It could have been stopped in the early stages, around two years ago, but instead it was allowed to continue festering for months, while the botters and multi-clienters got more and more brazen and openly bragged about getting away with their cheating.

    It's exasperating enough to see these smug jackasses talk about why it's pointless to play legitimately, you don't need to help them out by downplaying the role they had in this economic cancer.

    This problem came about when Nexon decided to open personal shops free for everyone to use without rules and regulations.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,990
    Posts: 3,281
    Member
    You take away the botters you will still have inflation. The botters make it worse, to be sure, but to say no botters means no inflation would be incorrect.
    Danievictria
  • pawcalypsepawcalypse
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,305
    Posts: 486
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    This problem came about when Nexon decided to open personal shops free for everyone to use without rules and regulations.

    In some games I used to play, before Mabinogi was even around, there were set prices or even a cap to how much anything should be. They worked much like the licence for Personal Shops. These measures somehow managed the gold in-game.
    The difference of a new-player from a veteran was like only 50k to 500k in most of the games I played. The average difference was ~100k. Everyone can buy anything without feeling poor after a purchase.
    Even if there were bots around, no one was any poorer or richer than the next player. The bots can be killed by anyone in most the games, and sometimes they disappear with in 10 to 30 minutes of spamming (you know "buy gold" ads).
    KensamaofmariSherri
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,990
    Posts: 3,281
    Member
    The easiest way to deal with inflation is to increase the market supply of goods. Some have suggested making desired items available in game after some time, either by craft, drop, or NPC sale. This still preserves a market for those who have to have the latest thing RIGHT NOW, but makes it available to those whom are willing to be patient. Remember when Nexon accidentally introduced knuckles for non-giants early into the game. People paid huge amounts of money for them, even though they knew they would be generally availabel soon. If someone wants the trendy thing RIGHT NOW let em have it for a price, while those whom can manage their need for instant gratification have it later for much less; that seems fair enough.
    Sherri
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 48,765
    Posts: 7,467
    Member
    edited September 9, 2019
    You can't regulate or control prices, that's called communism. Communism bad mkay? smh. If you don't want to buy it for that price, no one is twisting your arm to do so. You go buy it from somewhere or someone else, that's free market baby.

    Crims wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Let's also point out that people outright eat you alive if you try to say that you are planning to report gold sellers/buyers and modders.

    So proud of this community.

    It is what it is or you will get viciously blackballed by the real leaders of this community. I was getting constantly trolled and excluded everywhere. But I proved myself to the "mafia" as a neutral. I no longer report anyone for modding, rmt, ext. Quite frankly back in the day I thought I was helping this community. But now (especially with the way Nexon is) you can do whatever you want. I don't care.

    Are people doing these things? Oh yeah totally, lol. Am I going to report them? Nope!

    When the cancer is at its late stages, treatment is no longer effective.

    Perfectly put! Them cancer cells will mess you up. =P
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,990
    Posts: 3,281
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Communism bad mkay?

    But then we wouldn't have this:

    CrimsọnKensamaofmaripawcalypseSherri