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A way to fix inflation.

SollSoll
Mabinogi Rep: 3,330
Posts: 145
Member
edited March 1, 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions
Gold sinks don't work. More and more items past the 100m mark pop up, and actually get sold. Rare items are haggled and resold for profit.

Its pretty impossible for newer or weaker players to scrunge up the type of money needed for the new things, so heres an alternative;

A new currency, that would put a fixed price on gacha items, which are where our inflation issues stem from.

These 'tokens' would make all gacha items more available on the long term run. Be they training potions, outfits, or other consumables.
These tokens could be obtained from doing content, or simply logging in, for instance. they could also be sold in the nx shop to please the whales. The currency would be locked to an account to prevent abuse too. Buying the gacha itself would award you these tokens, which, unlike shy's shop, would not expire.


It would be overall similar to the adventure seal shop.

Of course to go on par with it, any new armors from then on should be released as patterns, which would also encourage ingame crafting. Even better if those things use materials that already exist in the game. All gachapon-only outfits and fashion would be restricted to this new currency, leaving the rest to the old gold and auction house system.

After a gacha is gone, the items in it could be put in that token shop, to be a sureway to gain the items you want. Example: homestead props that would otherwise become too rare.

The pricing being fixed would allow for a steadier trickle of gacha-exclusive stuff into the playerbase and avoid the long-term inflation issues that we currently have.

Also, add fine reforges into ducat shop.

Comments

  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
    Posts: 244
    Member
    There's so much cheap stuff on the auction house. If you bank a few bags of 50K you can buy cheap 200~400k celtic weapons. Why would a new player need anything that costs over 100 million gold? Maybe this is needed, I don't see it.

    Plus, most people would just wait for it to be released on your "token shop" idea. I.E The glimmering nature gacha lasts about 1 month. What's to stop people from just grinding tokens instead of betting their money on an unappealing 0.12% chance to get enchantable wings or something. You could just grind gold instead. The only difference is that your idea gives free tokens for doing nothing but logging in.
  • roastedpigroastedpig
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,040
    Posts: 122
    Member
    edited March 2, 2020
    What Cho said, plus there's already too many currency ig (Gold, Ducats, Adventure Seals) to add another one.

    What they could do is provide more gold sinks--include everyday wares on NPC shos. Stuff like full HP recovery, RE pots, Speed Pot, Gathering Pot, Tendering Potions, Proficiency Potions, SM Box Passes, heck maybe add in Holy Water and limited Ancient Magic Powder, etc. Of course, market for some items would be totally wrecked, but it's only a matter making the prices/value competitive (e.g. 50k/Holy Water Stack, or include SE pots in potion making).
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,764
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    That sounds like gawdang communism. You can never stop inflation, since the environment keeps generating gold. The economy of Mabinogi is like the economy of The PRC, it's in two tiers: one for the peasantry, who believe it or not use coins made out of aluminum, and one for the non-peasantry (let's be kind and call them workers). The range in the value of their currency demarcations is as great as when the US still used the $100,000 bill but all of it is used for day-to-day transactions by people. So, in Mabinogi the 100M items traded back-and-forth is commerce in the patrician class. The rest of us peons can only look on and dream Whatever inflation halting mechanic that you come up with there will always be a way to game the system. Mabinogi is just gonna have economic stratification. If you want to be part of the highest tier, you have to spend real money, If you want to be part of the second highest tier you have to put the time and effort in. The only way to keep inflation down to a minimum is with gold sinks. If they haven't worked so far it's because they haven't been made attractive enough.
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,590
    Posts: 486
    Member
    Double the size of Uladh... make the new monsters in this area drop ducats... in this new area, put all the good stuff in shops with ducats... note that these new monsters drop verry little ducats... problem solved
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
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    Double the size of Uladh... make the new monsters in this area drop ducats... in this new area, put all the good stuff in shops with ducats... note that these new monsters drop verry little ducats... problem solved

    Can the "Good Stuff" be sold between players?
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,590
    Posts: 486
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    1 time trades?
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,630
    Posts: 761
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    The only fool-proof way to «combat inflation» is to simply create such a massive supply of everything to the point that all items are a dime-a-dozen. The Trinity Staff used to be sold at prices in the six or seven-digit numbers. Now ? You will have a difficult time trying to sell such a staff at even under 50K.

    Obtaining gold these days is also far easier than it once was (the Blaanid-initiated Memoirs being one major factor behind that reason). There is how-ever a massive power-gap that does exist so of course the stronger people would have an easier time spamming shadow-missions at high-speed for a quick accumulation of that bonus-gold granted for mission-completion (especially if combined with high-multiplier shadow-crystals).

    There are still other ways that even a new/weak player can still make a good/decent amount of gold if they're willing to put in the work on a consistent basis and obtain the necessary knowledge as to how to do it in the most-efficient manner. Two of the easiest for «starter/weaker» Milletians being the selling of Holy Water and/or Holy Flame (especially since the «efficiency» becomes maximum after 100+ successful PTJs done for the Church; even more so with full-upgraded high-speed-gathering tools) and the second one being to cycle through multiple characters on the same account in order to obtain lots of Adventurer-Seals fairly quickly then to buy the high-demand items from the Adventurer's League Shop (or whatever it's called) such as Royal Knight Armour then selling then rinsing and repeating.

    Personally, I prefer to «design games» that are more strategic-oriented (focusing on the development of mental-skill) rather than being so/too RNG-dependent (luck), and I don't believe that any Gacha must have «end-game-ready» items/equipment... I would prefer that Gacha be more of a rotating wild-card of specific categories where purchase in multiples of 10x grants one guaranteed «SSR» item/pet/character-card/enchant-scroll/skill-training-seal/etc., and I think it would be preferable for the «in-game "economy"» to let all of the most rarest and strongest items be left as items that either need to be Crafted even if it takes 3000 runs of AAHM to get the necessary materials to be able to craft even one such piece of equipment... rather than dumping them into Gachapons.

    Content needs to be «re-balanced» to the point that «Game-Balance» needs to be some sort of pinned thread... with definitely some sort of «tight leash» kept on the contents that get released in Gacha-promotions so as to not be a «slap in the face» to those who had put in the time, effort, energy, resources, etc., into crafting strong equipment only to have it be out-classed by some Gacha-release(s) flooding the market-place. Inflation is still going to exist in some form or another no matter what simply because «gold-production» is done in somewhat of a «printing press» manner for as long as Milletians are willing to «spam content» and that actually reminds me of a third extremely easy way for weaker/newer players to obtain a lot of gold very easily... join/create Shadow-Mission parties... then just pick up all of the gold that everyone else leaves on the ground... because literally MILLIONS (possibly even BILLIONS) of gold is left on the ground each day (Shadow-Missions, Dungeons, Lord-Caves, etc., plenty of people don't wont pick up the gold, so you may as well «scavenge» it, rather than let all that gold go to waste...).
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
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    Implement price ceilings and price floors on the market.

    Make goods more accessible in the in-game NPC market. Increase services. Create better markets for player production services to increase spending on raw materials.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,065
    Posts: 1,230
    Member
    edited March 2, 2020
    I said economy is dead and beyond repair already xD

    Unless They remove ways to grind for gold while doing a gold wipe (which would piss off loads of players but hey a small "price" to pay for the future no?) Making it limited to gold gain cap per day or weekly would increase Value in gold again.

    But only for it to fail again because folks could just make alts...its sad but its a bit impossible to really fix this if the people can't fix themselves for ruining the economy lol.

    Its too hard to beat players for being smart. So yea...good luck trying to figure things out. O 3o
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
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    Implement price ceilings and price floors on the market.

    Make goods more accessible in the in-game NPC market. Increase services. Create better markets for player production services to increase spending on raw materials.

    I would rather they not implement price floors and ceilings, for now until most other ideas have been tried and abandoned in-game, as it could lead to unintended negative consequences. But your second suggestion, I think, is bang on. They need to have highly valued, very expensive untranferable goods, that are not in the web shop, but otherwise could be of that calibre, which are sold by NPCs. For example, AP potions, rebirth potions, and so on. For those particular examples then they'd have to nerf that girl in Dunbarton that gives all the high exp quests to make such goods more attractive.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
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    edited March 3, 2020
    Helsa wrote: »
    Implement price ceilings and price floors on the market.

    Make goods more accessible in the in-game NPC market. Increase services. Create better markets for player production services to increase spending on raw materials.

    I would rather they not implement price floors and ceilings, for now until most other ideas have been tried and abandoned in-game, as it could lead to unintended negative consequences. But your second suggestion, I think, is bang on. They need to have highly valued, very expensive untranferable goods, that are not in the web shop, but otherwise could be of that calibre, which are sold by NPCs. For example, AP potions, rebirth potions, and so on. For those particular examples then they'd have to nerf that girl in Dunbarton that gives all the high exp quests to make such goods more attractive.

    NPCS should not only have more purchasable items but there needs to be more final goods that players can produce themselves and perhaps production locked onto specific talents to create better self sustaining player markets.

    Of course, there should still be certain items that must be acquired through the web shop.

    Or perhaps sell production manuals in web shop that are not cannot be traded between players which can allow manufacturing players some protection against fervent competition.

    As I've suggested before, there should be a system outside the general marketplace where players can post requests for materials at a price and allow other people to fulfill them. To create fairness and lot let people with huge stockpiles spam the system, it would only count the materials gathered from the specific source or drop.

    Since there exists part time jobs for gathering materials, there should be more jobs that consumes raw materials.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,065
    Posts: 1,230
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    I hoard Materials, seeing what folks would buy would save me the trouble finding one out of many in the server of different channels.

    It would be good if they make food items worth mentioning too, like fun weird buffs out of all kinds of food you make that either just gimmicks or bypass the lame stat cap.

    Maybe food items that increase your likely produce in gathering or making.anything, from higher fishing rates, even move speed since movement speed is now laughable if all mobs could outrun you (even as an elf) a now worthless quirk.

    I just want to make food and actually feel like I am making a difference instead of finding it completely unnecessary or even not being optional either since you hit that cap anyways without foods. What do foods even shine at anymore?
  • HelsaHelsa
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    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.
    KensamaofmariHabimaru
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,065
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    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
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    Alshian wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD

    Let's say the NPC has only 5,000 gold on them. This amount does not replenish automatically. The NPC will only earn money based off transactions made with players and the NPCs will spend money to obtain materials. The NPC should be reprogrammed to where the more materials they have on hand and/or the less gold they have, the less they are willing to buy more materials at the same price until the resell value drops to 0.

    I think there is currently some sort of system where the resell value of certain items fluctuate. I've noticed that after rebirthing and I resell the leather shoes that you get with the beginner set, the resell value of the leather shoes have fluctuated up and down from time to time. By lowering the value of materials as the NPC buy more of it, the resell value of that material will drop until it reaches 0 or until the NPC consumes/uses that material and needs to restock. This way, players would not be able to manipulate the transactions to gain/hoard gold.

    The game probably does not have a advanced enough system to make an AI economy itself, but if that is possible, then NPCs among themselves can also make transactions that affect the money supply of the economy as that would mean that NPCs will spend money that they have.

  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,764
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    Alshian wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD

    Let's say the NPC has only 5,000 gold on them. This amount does not replenish automatically. The NPC will only earn money based off transactions made with players and the NPCs will spend money to obtain materials. The NPC should be reprogrammed to where the more materials they have on hand and/or the less gold they have, the less they are willing to buy more materials at the same price until the resell value drops to 0.

    I think there is currently some sort of system where the resell value of certain items fluctuate. I've noticed that after rebirthing and I resell the leather shoes that you get with the beginner set, the resell value of the leather shoes have fluctuated up and down from time to time. By lowering the value of materials as the NPC buy more of it, the resell value of that material will drop until it reaches 0 or until the NPC consumes/uses that material and needs to restock. This way, players would not be able to manipulate the transactions to gain/hoard gold.

    The game probably does not have a advanced enough system to make an AI economy itself, but if that is possible, then NPCs among themselves can also make transactions that affect the money supply of the economy as that would mean that NPCs will spend money that they have.

    Having NPC price change with demand and supply of goods and products, would not be all that hard to enact. They could add a "safety valve" of sorts, to keep the NPC's from running out of gold by having "Ghost Buyers" "Buy" some of their stock from time to time. So say Ferghus sells a sword to the aether and his stock of swords dimishes by one but his gold supply goes up by what it's current cost was.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
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    Helsa wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD

    Let's say the NPC has only 5,000 gold on them. This amount does not replenish automatically. The NPC will only earn money based off transactions made with players and the NPCs will spend money to obtain materials. The NPC should be reprogrammed to where the more materials they have on hand and/or the less gold they have, the less they are willing to buy more materials at the same price until the resell value drops to 0.

    I think there is currently some sort of system where the resell value of certain items fluctuate. I've noticed that after rebirthing and I resell the leather shoes that you get with the beginner set, the resell value of the leather shoes have fluctuated up and down from time to time. By lowering the value of materials as the NPC buy more of it, the resell value of that material will drop until it reaches 0 or until the NPC consumes/uses that material and needs to restock. This way, players would not be able to manipulate the transactions to gain/hoard gold.

    The game probably does not have a advanced enough system to make an AI economy itself, but if that is possible, then NPCs among themselves can also make transactions that affect the money supply of the economy as that would mean that NPCs will spend money that they have.

    Having NPC price change with demand and supply of goods and products, would not be all that hard to enact. They could add a "safety valve" of sorts, to keep the NPC's from running out of gold by having "Ghost Buyers" "Buy" some of their stock from time to time. So say Ferghus sells a sword to the aether and his stock of swords dimishes by one but his gold supply goes up by what it's current cost was.

    This would also work to fix the commerce system as well.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,764
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    Helsa wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD

    Let's say the NPC has only 5,000 gold on them. This amount does not replenish automatically. The NPC will only earn money based off transactions made with players and the NPCs will spend money to obtain materials. The NPC should be reprogrammed to where the more materials they have on hand and/or the less gold they have, the less they are willing to buy more materials at the same price until the resell value drops to 0.

    I think there is currently some sort of system where the resell value of certain items fluctuate. I've noticed that after rebirthing and I resell the leather shoes that you get with the beginner set, the resell value of the leather shoes have fluctuated up and down from time to time. By lowering the value of materials as the NPC buy more of it, the resell value of that material will drop until it reaches 0 or until the NPC consumes/uses that material and needs to restock. This way, players would not be able to manipulate the transactions to gain/hoard gold.

    The game probably does not have a advanced enough system to make an AI economy itself, but if that is possible, then NPCs among themselves can also make transactions that affect the money supply of the economy as that would mean that NPCs will spend money that they have.

    Having NPC price change with demand and supply of goods and products, would not be all that hard to enact. They could add a "safety valve" of sorts, to keep the NPC's from running out of gold by having "Ghost Buyers" "Buy" some of their stock from time to time. So say Ferghus sells a sword to the aether and his stock of swords dimishes by one but his gold supply goes up by what it's current cost was.

    This would also work to fix the commerce system as well.

    Why not just integrate the two.
  • nibblesthecatnibblesthecat
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,685
    Posts: 43
    Member
    As I see it, the easy answer is just put seller names in the auction house.
    Seller's gonna get pm'd with other offers to take or leave, and as for the ones posting everything at ridiculous numbers?
    *shun the evildoer*
    Alshian
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if they gave NPC limited gold and goods. You'd have to sell them matterials for them to refill their stocks, and when they run out of gold they can't buy any more of your stuff.

    going to be tough cus then folks could hoard those gold XD

    Let's say the NPC has only 5,000 gold on them. This amount does not replenish automatically. The NPC will only earn money based off transactions made with players and the NPCs will spend money to obtain materials. The NPC should be reprogrammed to where the more materials they have on hand and/or the less gold they have, the less they are willing to buy more materials at the same price until the resell value drops to 0.

    I think there is currently some sort of system where the resell value of certain items fluctuate. I've noticed that after rebirthing and I resell the leather shoes that you get with the beginner set, the resell value of the leather shoes have fluctuated up and down from time to time. By lowering the value of materials as the NPC buy more of it, the resell value of that material will drop until it reaches 0 or until the NPC consumes/uses that material and needs to restock. This way, players would not be able to manipulate the transactions to gain/hoard gold.

    The game probably does not have a advanced enough system to make an AI economy itself, but if that is possible, then NPCs among themselves can also make transactions that affect the money supply of the economy as that would mean that NPCs will spend money that they have.

    Having NPC price change with demand and supply of goods and products, would not be all that hard to enact. They could add a "safety valve" of sorts, to keep the NPC's from running out of gold by having "Ghost Buyers" "Buy" some of their stock from time to time. So say Ferghus sells a sword to the aether and his stock of swords dimishes by one but his gold supply goes up by what it's current cost was.

    This would also work to fix the commerce system as well.

    Why not just integrate the two.

    why-not-both-eganerator-why-not-both-taco-girl-52890355.png