Check out the patch notes for the July 16th update, P.E.T. Part 1: http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/23332/
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

A way to fix inflation.

Comments

  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    edited March 5
    As I see it, the easy answer is just put seller names in the auction house.
    Seller's gonna get pm'd with other offers to take or leave, and as for the ones posting everything at ridiculous numbers?
    *shun the evildoer*

    I upvote this, many would say they would rather not deal with the hassle or the harassment but sometimes maybe its because you brought it upon yourself.

    Id rather know who is likely damaging the economy instead of remaining hidden with no consequence for the action they did. That way everyone knows who to not buy from to avoid adding more wood into the fire.

    You can disagree with me but then that is because you don't really care about the economy...who wouldn't? Its just a game afterall...but what about those who do care? What about those who want to stop the inflation by the invisible force? Those who try to repair what was likely never to be fixed because everyone just let it burn?

    Economy could survive if you can build trust, knowing the reputation of the seller/buyer, and the "will" to stick together to bring down who tried to destroy the system.

    You may call it bullying but its actually justice to protect the system as a whole from griefers. Because you likely forgot there are players who have fun destroy the economy instead of playing the game.

    But what am I kidding? Speaking with these folks who want to feel safe while everything around them burn to the ground...
    Sherri
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,970
    Posts: 3,254
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    As I see it, the easy answer is just put seller names in the auction house.
    Seller's gonna get pm'd with other offers to take or leave, and as for the ones posting everything at ridiculous numbers?
    *shun the evildoer*

    I upvote this, many would say they would rather not deal with the hassle or the harassment but sometimes maybe its because you brought it upon yourself.

    Id rather know who is likely damaging the economy instead of remaining hidden with no consequence for the action they did. That way everyone knows who to not buy from to avoid adding more wood into the fire.

    You can disagree with me but then that is because you don't really care about the economy...who wouldn't? Its just a game afterall...but what about those who do care? What about those who want to stop the inflation by the invisible force? Those who try to repair what was likely never to be fixed because everyone just let it burn?

    Economy could survive if you can build trust, knowing the reputation of the seller/buyer, and the "will" to stick together to bring down who tried to destroy the system.

    You may call it bullying but its actually justice to protect the system as a whole from griefers. Because you likely forgot there are players who have fun destroy the economy instead of playing the game.

    But what am I kidding? Speaking with these folks who want to feel safe while everything around them burn to the ground...

    It won't make a difference. The housing market let you see who the sellers were. It's prices weren't as bad as the AH because it had limitations. That meant the folks had to note sellers and deal in checks to deal in higher prices. No sellers felt shame or were embarrassed into compliance. The Mabinogi uber rich are not breaking the rules. The fact is you can sell your stuff for any price you want. If someone doesn;t like the price then don't buy; you don't have to you know. I'd like a Lamborghini for the price of a Ford even though they cost as much to make per unit to make as it does for a Ford. In the real world there are different tier markets. So it is in Mabinogi. The patrician class can buy and sell items at and for crazy prices because they can afford to. They got that way because they spend real money to make themselves rich; buying Gacha's and selling the stuff they don't want. The fact is, it's because of whales that this game still exists. So, if someone wants the very fancy items either cough up the dough, put the time in, or stop wanting it.
    HabimaruSherri
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,520
    Posts: 6,736
    Member
    MEME GENERATOR FTW.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,600
    Posts: 590
    Member
    W-w-wait a minute...! You mean... this is just a game...!? O_O But I THOUGHT THIS WAS REAL!!! D=
    Alshian wrote: »
    Its just a game afterall...

  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    Strange huh? Too real O 3o
  • MaiaMaia
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,955
    Posts: 885
    Member
    The main problem with this suggestion is that by introducing any new currency just makes inflation worse for everything else. If you can earn and purchase something with (insert new currency) then everyone will have more gold to spend on the older desirable items (erg/weapon mats for example) and hike up those prices.

    As mentioned before, a more plausible solution to reduce inflation (without gold sinks) would be to increase supply of desired items (which would be nice for certain items like divine fragments, upgrade stones, etc) and is already being done with gacha items (via re-releases). When it comes to gacha, the solution to avoid overpriced items is to wait until a re-release and most items drop in price. Some exceptions exist though as they are either never re-released or not re-released enough. We need a more sustainable source of mineral fragments and erg materials though, the supply of these seems to dwindle as less people do raids (older content) but demand remains (or increases as more people reach this point of the game) which causes prices to hike up (perpetuated by the fact that gold becomes more plentiful over time).
  • MegasoulMegasoul
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,350
    Posts: 133
    Member
    Implement price ceilings and price floors on the market.
    This is one of the biggest factors to be honest. With the market moving from Personal Shops and Houses to the Auction House and some other changes like The Merge, Bank Increases, etc. etc. the economy was knowingly inflated.

    In Korea it's a lot harder to make a ton of alt accounts because accounts are often tied to Social Security Numbers (their RRNs) and/or their phone numbers. In Korea there are more players and a lot more money flowing from the real world into the game. In Korea ducats CAN be used to buy reforges (the reforges are a level between our initial ones and Fine's, and are really only used to get rank-ups).

    Stuff like the Auction House breathes new life into NA and Korea. But some small temporal changes and differences between the two make inflation seem really bad here.

    For example, if more people buy Gacha there's more of a gold sink as people buy cute Homestead Items.

    But this sometimes means we get the better end of the stick too, because Korea still has Expiring Tails, etc. because they'll spend to upkeep them.

    Treat the economy like a real economy, selling high and buying low and the game is really fun even when you barely play it.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,970
    Posts: 3,254
    Member
    If the net rate of gold created exceeds the net rate of gold destroyed, the gold supply increases. As long as the gold supply increases you will have inflation. As long as the gold supply increases there is nothing you can do to stop inflation. In the real world, you must buy food, you must buy gasoline, you must pay for medical (either directly or through taxes), you must pay rent. Yet in the real world, there is inflation still. In Mabinogi there is nothing that you ultimately MUST buy. At best we can try to create a situation where inflation is kept low, like in the real world. But there will still be inflation. The longer you are in the game the better you can deal with it, but brand new characters will always have to deal with the prices that have evolved. Overtime that shock will always get greater and greater for new newbies.

    Before the AH, "advertised" prices in the housing market were smaller because they were capped, so the impression is that the AH caused inflation. It didn't because before all trading was hand-to-hand with checks and the true price of things was somewhat hidden. All the AH did was shine the light on the true price of things. Inflation can't be stopped but it can be minimized. The only way to do that is with gold sinks. So, far the gold sinks have not been effective because there is not enough incentive to use them in a significant way. So, what needs to be done is make desirable goods and services available via gold. Instead of doing this Nexon makes ALL desirable goods and services available through the web-shop. This exacerbates the issue. Of course Nexon needs to be able to make money or the game goes away, but surely there must be SOME goods and services that can be made available, in-game, That's not to say Nexon hasn't tried, the travelers guide warp feature for example. The problem is that this feature, as it is, can't really be priced any higher, and may, in fact, be made more effective globally by lowering it's prices. It's a start but it's hardly enough. There needs to be a lot more of more desirable goods and services priced effectively in this regard. Temporary things are good for this. This is why the warp feature is a good thing. You use it you're done. Some items in the web-shop I think can be removed and placed in-game instead; does anybody actually spend real money on remote shops? Since we have the Duncan skill lowering service can't we make the web-shop skill reset caps available for gold?

    The answer is gold sinks:
    - they must be commonly desirable
    - they must give temporary benefit so that customers will need to continually buy
    - goods and services, from the web-shop, that have lack lustre sales should be moved in-game and available by gold
    - and most importantly, everything must be priced correctly at their critical point of elasticity of their demand curve to maximize the net effect of them as a gold sink. If this means raising the price when demand is inelastic, or lowering it when it is elastic then so be it.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,350
    Posts: 2,571
    Member
    Free market was a mistake.
    Alshian
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,970
    Posts: 3,254
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    Free market was a mistake.

    I understand what you're saying, but without a free market there'd be no items to desire. Now, if you're a buddhist then this kind of solution makes complete sense, but um yeah. You have to have player on player commerce or the game won't last. If you buy a pile of gotcha's at least you can sell the misses. If you can't, you'll stop buying and the game stops generating revenue.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,600
    Posts: 590
    Member
    edited March 8
    I think we are over-looking the fact that our lives as Milletians have actually become easier now (such to the point that even «elves» can «solo» content that would have normally and originally taken years to accomplish). This ease of content-clearing, compared to before, and partly or perhaps even largely because today's Milletians would be deemed «over-powered» by the standards of Milletians from Tani's time-line, also makes it possible to obtain 10x the amount of gold than one was able to achieve in the past, and do it solo, where-as it used to be that accomplishing even one tenth of that required having an efficient group where all of your times and schedules aligned.

    As part of a back-ground story, as «productivity increases» (related to the former gold-mining craze out in the Wild, Wild, West of what is now known as Commiefornia, err, I mean, California) then so, too, will the ability to obtain said goods increase. More «gold» can thus be demanded from the «market» as the «value of money» is really something in which «time» has to be factored into its definition. So if someone spent an equivalent amount of time on dungeon-farming to obtain some rare item, but other activities allow players to obtain gold 10x faster than before (e.g.: whether due to the introduction of new technologies such as being able to farm by tractor instead of tending to crops by hand), then of course that Rare Drop from AAHM is probably going to end up being «worth» 10x as much as before, IF nobody else is running said AAHM-content (but it won't go that high due to others also being able to now run AAHM much faster than before).

    Many of us in the off-line world actually now live better quality of lives and even have more «free time» than some of the past so-called «kings» of the earth-world (disclaimer: this claim may need to be qualified), despite how much «poverty» may stricken the so-called un-employed or minimum-wage workers, compared to before, because of the abundance of so many «conveniently available products» that fulfill many of our basic-needs, where-as life used to be difficult enough in the past where the vast majority of the world used to be rural (it is now mostly urban) and many people had to work in the mines for 100-hour work-weeks in the past just to be able to keep themselves (and/or their families) fed. Take a look around you, see what people are equipped with now, and ask yourself: Would even a Veteran of the Past have been able to obtain and be able to wear/equip what this «new Milletian who started a couple of months ago» is wearing now ? [No, not possible]

    If they (or anybody in the world, really) really wanted a more «permanent solution» towards «fixing inflation» then it has to be tackled at the root-source being the very supply itself (being what is used or passed off as being so-called money or currency) then it would have to be some sort of monetary/financial-system that only «injects» the supply of it based on the population's productive-equivalent. Maybe they could design some sort of «crypto-currency» system into the Milletian-populated digital-world, but, truthfully, everybody still needs to first do their due diligence and learn/study how the financial/banking systems out in our material-world operate, and the real causes of inflation/deflation, before trying to go about «fixing inflation» (and, for as far as I can tell, Holy Waters still sell at approximately the same price of gold as it always historically has, and that most certainly has something to do with the «time» factor in being able to obtain it; Holy Water prices would also most certainly «inflate» if they held some sort of Event where we had to turn in Holy Waters to some NPC for in-demand rewards).

    Semi-Final «Economics» Lesson: Certain «products» are going to «sell better» or «fetch higher prices» at certain times of the year than others. Blankets in summer-time ? Probably not. Sell during winter-season ? People will buy. Air-conditioners in winter-time ? Not going to be very much demand. Sell in summer-time ? You can bet your bottom-dollar that there will be significant sales-percentages at/to locations where the heat is unbearable/insane (and no I am not trying to promote «gambling» by using terms like: bet). The rest of what I need to quote is another lesson of itself which goes beyond comprehending mere game-economy mechanics so I'll just stick it into a spoiler...
    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” –Thomas Jefferson

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809)

    «It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.» -Henry Ford

    Despite these warnings, Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote: “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” -Woodrow Wilson

    «The tax and the free income % (Usury) by money lenders is what has caused the value of the currency commodity to drop. E.g., a house purchased 30 years ago for $25,000 may now cost $500,000 - - - but the house has the same intrinsic value, it simply means that the buying power of the $ has dropped to 1/20th of its original capacity.» Quoted from http://the-testament-of-truth.co.uk/truth/web/currenc1.htm

    «Only when the new world ‘order’ is here will a home costing 10,000 dollars today never cost a ‘penny’ more because, the wisely used currency of the day would not have depleted its value (buying power) annually. Only then are we protecting the sanity of our offspring. The more you can freely give (by making less profit) the less it will cost others and yourself to live, and the more return all will get on the currency of the day. » Also quoted from http://the-testament-of-truth.co.uk/truth/web/currenc1.htm

    «Once the “thievery” does STOP, then deflation will NOT the country stop. All products will be cheaper and our $ will never lose its value I see. So what I save today will still have the same buying power or more to pay my way in 30 years time when I am too old to press the grapes for wine.» Related to why "tax/taxation (and interest-rates)" needs to be abolished as also quoted from http://the-testament-of-truth.co.uk/truth/web/currenc1.htm#page_19

    Any so-called «bad economy» always gets blamed on every other factor other than the greedy «usury» system of taxation/interest-rates of the private international-banksters, whether it be presidential-policies, civil-unrest, the failure of the education-system, capitalism, the free-market, socialism, communism, etc., rather than the fraud and deceit of the international-banksters who literally «own» and «control» just about nearly the whole entire world... something that Adolph Hitler was «freeing» the German people from and possibly even the world from these modern-day money-changers... much of which is described in G. Edward Griffin's book...: The Creature From Jekyll Island
    Patriotism ? Fascism ? Nationalism ? I have no problem with any «system» that is honest for as long as it is honest, how-ever, language does not exactly have a stable base and thus the very various definitions of words falls into question as something I must put under scrutiny...
    keep_changing_the_name_eventually_you_will_fool_someone.jpg
    Sherri wrote: »
    Free market was a mistake.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,520
    Posts: 6,736
    Member
    Ah, so this confirms that Habimaru is racist towards Elves. He probably isn't afraid of making upset some Elf users.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Ah, so this confirms that Habimaru is racist towards Elves. He probably isn't afraid of making upset some Elf users.

    Is an elf, I am triggered UwU

    Its honestly sorta hard to offend me as I am now, since players broke me with the amount of nonsense (my own nonsense as well) to making me feel free from the need or to want to be offended making me feel good actually. That pretty much made me forsake humanity as a whole and don't have to really bother with feeling offended. Just laugh at them and yourself for likely being like them in the past.

    I just wanted to at least be able to wield a two handed sword ; - ;
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,600
    Posts: 590
    Member
    You people and your «racism» card...! O_O Elves did factually have a hard time ever since that combat-system change when things went from load-timer to insta-load, and a number of people did warn that it would screw over elves (at least their archery in particular), which it did, then the idea of «balancing» things was apparently to just throw in things like Rank-1-Reforge-Ready Black Dragon Knight's Bows into Gacha-releases (amongst other P2W weaponry) which pretty much made it near-pointless to bother being a crafter or smither of anything since the P2W weapons were of much higher tier/power than anything which could be crafted... essentially breaking ten well-designed aspects of the game with one whole drop of some sort of Acme-style Anvil. I also happen to be an Elf myself and we're essentially «gimped» in the «strength-stats» related talents/skills (which really limits our options as to what we can use in combat and not be «dead-weight» when grouped if using «welfare-gear» whilst the other two races can still dish it out fairly heavily and relatively quickly in comparison even with «welfare» equipment).

    Either way the «price of goods/commodities» only remains stable when everyone is honest with the money system. How-ever, I do not really see this «inflation» to which the O-P refers, if anything, prices for a lot of goods have actually decreased. Red/Blue Upgrade-Stones used to sell for the millions, per stone, but now we can get whole entire stacks of blue ones for less than 1 million gold, and red stacks for only a couple of million. How in the world would this be considered inflation ? Even Book-Pages are Super-Cheap now in comparison to before (Arrow-Revolver, Fire-Ball, Ice-Spear-related, Thunder, etc). Prices have actually gone DOWN and not UP contrary to the claims of this thread. Only for something like a Hatsune Miku Wig would the price go up, but, that has more to do with the lack of supply, than the over-abundance of gold that may or may not be circulating around in the «economy» of digital-Erinn. The «market» is actually great for «buyers» and no longer that profitable for «sellers» of quite a number of goods that once-upon-a-time used to fetch high prices...
    Greta wrote: »
    Ah, so this confirms that Habimaru is racist towards Elves. He probably isn't afraid of making upset some Elf users.