[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!
Closed

Statistical Debate Forum Regarding Race Imbalance

Comments

  • MierinMierin
    Mabinogi Rep: 855
    Posts: 22
    Member
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Elves magnum+final shot with be #1 best way to do things in the future.

    Not sure why anyone thinks that trash is usable, let alone going to slingshot elves into 1st place.
    We're already gated far more by server latency than aim speed, getting MORE aim speed won't change that.

    This is just another example of "korean devs don't understand places that aren't korea will have pings larger than they expect skills to even take to use".
    SylviaWolfe
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,875
    Posts: 397
    Member
    edited March 1, 2017
    What FS needs is the removal of aiming of ranged attack
    So it change from LOAD AIM SHOT to LOAD AND SHOT
    So i dont need to be bother to teleport behind when i miss once against high damage enemies
    Seriously, the idea of hit and run tactic does not work against many enemy that either move fast, chain cast, and teleport at all

    No! I am not saying that Elf should be OP, i stating the obvious
    SylviaWolfe
  • VenenatisVenenatis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,265
    Posts: 78
    Member
    tbh, I'd like one of two things to happen, either scrap racial differences in stats/skills entirely or make them diverse enough for a change to actually mean something.
    SylviaWolfe
  • NomNomNellaNomNomNella
    Mabinogi Rep: 725
    Posts: 8
    Member
    Since you eventually end up with extra AP well beyond what you need for your chosen 'class' choices to drop into everything else, I kindof think the races should have more minimalized (or none at all, i prefer the former..) differences between eachother. Atleast that way, it would be mostly vanity aside from a few tidbits (like elves shooting twice but slower with archery).. and then any race could be proficient with any type of combat.

    Or you could make elves even faster. I like speed!
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    Making elves faster or making them turn into the best single-target DPS race wouldn't change the fact that they are still the weakest race.

    We need to be equal to humans/giants in our OWN ways, by for example giving us exclusive archery/mage skills and buffs that can one up FH/Bash+enhacement/Dual Wield/2h+Shield.
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,230
    Posts: 659
    Member
    Kaga wrote: »
    Making elves faster or making them turn into the best single-target DPS race wouldn't change the fact that they are still the weakest race.

    We need to be equal to humans/giants in our OWN ways, by for example giving us exclusive archery/mage skills and buffs that can one up FH/Bash+enhacement/Dual Wield/2h+Shield.
    They should just buff final shot so that it can rival final hit, it got changes during the archery renovation but it's a joke compared to final hit. I just found it funny how humans were able to even contest which race was the best with archery even though lore wise elves should have beaten everyone by at least a mile.
    SylviaWolfe
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    TheNyanCat wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Making elves faster or making them turn into the best single-target DPS race wouldn't change the fact that they are still the weakest race.

    We need to be equal to humans/giants in our OWN ways, by for example giving us exclusive archery/mage skills and buffs that can one up FH/Bash+enhacement/Dual Wield/2h+Shield.
    They should just buff final shot so that it can rival final hit, it got changes during the archery renovation but it's a joke compared to final hit. I just found it funny how humans were able to even contest which race was the best with archery even though lore wise elves should have beaten everyone by at least a mile.

    At this point they should just revamp the elf race as a whole.

    I would love to see FS and FH being equal too.

    Imo they should nerf FH already since that's the only thing most humans are using most of the time (beside of firebolt/Judgment blade and so on) Because it's way too OP, which explains why most humans use it..
    SylviaWolfeKokoro
  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,155
    Posts: 130
    Member
    edited March 2, 2017
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.
    SylviaWolfeKaga
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,290
    Posts: 105
    Member
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.
    Hiroki05
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,775
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.

    Referencing lore? That's dangerous territory.

    In any case, the only difference is int and some minor ice spear thing to my knowledge.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,615
    Posts: 265
    Member
    Kaga wrote: »
    SirRyu wrote: »
    A lot of people seem like they are underestimating the updates that are coming towards us. Keep seeing FH mentioned as the end all skill, but giants can surpass that ,using bash spam, specially after their update.

    Heck elves are being seriously underestimated. +400% aim speed is a pretty big game changer ya'know, just toss that in with FS.

    It definitely isn't a big game changer, not sure if you play as an elf but there are tons of elves that don't even archer, like me (mage)
    And the current "elf" archers will just be able to do about the same thing as they can do now, just a little bit faster.

    IMO that "skill" is pretty much useless. Even FS is more useful (since you don't have to wait 1 IG/irl day to use it)

    If final shot is more useful then I have nothing more to say.

    Are you talking about Urgent Shot? That skill is far from useless. The guaranteed hit and knockback is wonderful. Then again, knowing you and these forums in general, you're probably speaking from a pure DPS perspective, whereas I'm saying it's good for surviving and opening up a chance to get more hits in.

    That said, the aim speed bonus isn't a big deal (though it is nice), and the skill still suffers from the same thing all other ranged skills suffer from (albeit to a lesser extent)- slow, jerky execution (presumably because lag).
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,015
    Posts: 1,590
    Member
    edited March 2, 2017
    Referencing lore? That's dangerous territory.

    Thread is for stats, not a lore war guys. Please try to keep it on topic so it's easier to see what's out of balance.
    *edit* My OP on page1 has been edited to include a forum link for you lore enthusiasts.
    2d3aca04c8ea2e66491c5dd1f99b8f0b.gif
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,615
    Posts: 265
    Member
    Felice wrote: »
    The matter of CRK Swords greatly boosting only humans may seem like a slap in the face to Elves and Giants, and it may seem even worse when compared to the Divine Weapons, however, everyone seem to forgot about the Divine Shield, which completes the Special Bonus of the Sword, and adds a +10 charge effect, meaning you do not have to dual wield the swords alone to get the effect.

    This is part of another issue I have a problem with. With the addition of those weapon-specific smash effects, it was starting to look like they were going to start adding more variety between the weapon types, so there'd be a reason to use something other than swords/lances and bows. Then we come to the Celtic weapons, and only the CRK swords have any sort of special effect, and the rest (of the close combat weapons) are just slight improvements on existing weapons (but they do look cooler).

    Meanwhile, in the ranged department, their solution to the 'nobody uses crossbows' problem was to just make crossbows better than bows in most every way. Crossbows are just the natural end-game of ranged combat now. As a bow fan, I am Displeased.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    edited March 3, 2017
    Kaga wrote: »
    SirRyu wrote: »
    A lot of people seem like they are underestimating the updates that are coming towards us. Keep seeing FH mentioned as the end all skill, but giants can surpass that ,using bash spam, specially after their update.

    Heck elves are being seriously underestimated. +400% aim speed is a pretty big game changer ya'know, just toss that in with FS.

    It definitely isn't a big game changer, not sure if you play as an elf but there are tons of elves that don't even archer, like me (mage)
    And the current "elf" archers will just be able to do about the same thing as they can do now, just a little bit faster.

    IMO that "skill" is pretty much useless. Even FS is more useful (since you don't have to wait 1 IG/irl day to use it)

    If final shot is more useful then I have nothing more to say.

    Are you talking about Urgent Shot? That skill is far from useless. The guaranteed hit and knockback is wonderful. Then again, knowing you and these forums in general, you're probably speaking from a pure DPS perspective, whereas I'm saying it's good for surviving and opening up a chance to get more hits in.

    That said, the aim speed bonus isn't a big deal (though it is nice), and the skill still suffers from the same thing all other ranged skills suffer from (albeit to a lesser extent)- slow, jerky execution (presumably because lag).

    Sure it's not useless, but it's not "useful" either.
    I mean.. we can't compare FH buff/Dual wield/Bash to "Urgent Shot"
    I wouldn't even consider it a skill at this point, just a random addon.
    If anything they should have added more offensive skills for archery in that renovation.
    And yes, I meant from a DPS perspective, since all of the combat renovation skills are related to that (Bash, FH etc)
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.

    As for that, that's probably because humans were the first race in this game. E.g when g1-3 came out, we had mages like mores, tarlach and so on.

    Who cares about lores anyways. Elves already can have black hair and that was "against" the lore before.

    Plus elves get more INT, MP and DEX, now I wonder why?

    "Elves are a humanoid race with long, pointy ears native to the town of Filia in the Connous region of Iria. In general, this race has advantages in Magic and Archery, but disadvantages in Melee combat. Their specialized stats are Mana, Intelligence, and Dexterity."
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,290
    Posts: 105
    Member
    edited March 3, 2017
    Kaga wrote: »
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.

    As for that, that's probably because humans were the first race in this game. E.g when g1-3 came out, we had mages like mores, tarlach and so on.

    Who cares about lores anyways. Elves already can have black hair and that was "against" the lore before.

    Plus elves get more INT, MP and DEX, now I wonder why?

    "Elves are a humanoid race with long, pointy ears native to the town of Filia in the Connous region of Iria. In general, this race has advantages in Magic and Archery, but disadvantages in Melee combat. Their specialized stats are Mana, Intelligence, and Dexterity."

    Just wanted to say having an advantage in something doesn't automatically make you the "best" at it.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.

    As for that, that's probably because humans were the first race in this game. E.g when g1-3 came out, we had mages like mores, tarlach and so on.

    Who cares about lores anyways. Elves already can have black hair and that was "against" the lore before.

    Plus elves get more INT, MP and DEX, now I wonder why?

    "Elves are a humanoid race with long, pointy ears native to the town of Filia in the Connous region of Iria. In general, this race has advantages in Magic and Archery, but disadvantages in Melee combat. Their specialized stats are Mana, Intelligence, and Dexterity."

    Just wanted to say having an advantage in something doesn't automatically make you the "best" at it.

    The problem here is that I wouldn't even call the "advantage" an advantage to begin with. Which is why I have been saying elves need to be equal as human/giant in THEIR own field (Magic/Archery)

    Which is why I wouldn't mind changing race if we could (to giant or human) Since I would still 1 hit with blaze.
    Now MAYBE if they DID buff elves in those aspects (Magic/Archery) There would be a reason for me to stay in that race.
    NeynaSylviaWolfe
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,775
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Alukina wrote: »
    I went human because I wanted to be a better gunner but I kinda regret that because honestly with elves having better magic and giants having better strength which one would actually be better ??? Idk fam you tell me ; - ;

    PS: I believe gunner is balance between STR and INT but I don't think it really leans either way from my experience so please correct me if I'm wrong

    Elves aren't better at magic though. As far as int goes, both humans and elves can hit the cap reasonably (though not quickly). If the cap were gone, humans would have the highest potential int. In terms of total int and str, humans are first, followed by giants, and then elves.

    This..
    They were SUPPOSED to be better in Magic but nope

    LF> Elf Revamp Mage related

    If elves were so good at magic why are most of the spells we use created by humans? Heck most of the prominent magic users we've seen throughout the story have been humans.

    As for that, that's probably because humans were the first race in this game. E.g when g1-3 came out, we had mages like mores, tarlach and so on.

    Who cares about lores anyways. Elves already can have black hair and that was "against" the lore before.

    Plus elves get more INT, MP and DEX, now I wonder why?

    "Elves are a humanoid race with long, pointy ears native to the town of Filia in the Connous region of Iria. In general, this race has advantages in Magic and Archery, but disadvantages in Melee combat. Their specialized stats are Mana, Intelligence, and Dexterity."

    Just wanted to say having an advantage in something doesn't automatically make you the "best" at it.
    But it does give you an advantage. In this case, what you are saying seems wholly dependent on the player, and I cannot say I disagree. Advantages do matter a great deal however. Elves are the best potential archers in terms of skill use and stats. There is no denying that.
  • scorpin99scorpin99
    Mabinogi Rep: 875
    Posts: 20
    Member
    edited March 3, 2017
    @SirRyu

    You neglect the fact that shylien nature reserve exists, and that without the ancient elven technology with things like staves and shylien caused staves like the hermit staff or much later the celtic stuff to exist.

    still, elves need better magic, not to mention our bolt ap costs.
    Kaga
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,815
    Posts: 575
    Member
    scorpin99 wrote: »
    @SirRyu

    You neglect the fact that shylien nature reserve exists, and that without the ancient elven technology with things like staves and shylien caused staves like the hermit staff or much later the celtic stuff to exist.

    still, elves need better magic, not to mention our bolt ap costs.

    Instead of all these repetitive "revamps" for elves that only revamps archery, I hope we see some Magic revamp this time.
This discussion has been closed.