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Elves Being Better at Magic

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  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Neyna wrote: »
    Please stop arguing guys. You buried my post on page 4. =T
    (You should go read it)

    Also, of lesser importance, I wouldn't particularly like to see either of you band.

    Yeah I did read it, but like I said somewhere there too, that they should give some music buff that gives Magic Attack like BFO for Max damage.
    NA and KR need to realise that not EVERY ELVES lives in NA to keep getting these Archery related buffs.

    Yeah, I remember you said something like that before. It's a minor part of the reason I started thinking about magic buffs for elves.

    However, you should know that, even in the US, archery suffers pretty badly from lag (although, I say this from the east coast). I'd honestly like to see some changes to the way it works in general, so it won't be affected so much by lag, but I think that would involve fixing some pretty entrenched issues (location lag the most annoying), so it's not likely to happen.

    As for the magic BFO, I really don't like the idea, for no reason in particular. I don't think magic needs this, as it's already really good all around. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the damage it can generally dish out to say anything more than that.


    Also, don't apologize to the OP. Everyone can clearly see their post. You should apologize to me, for obscuring my post ON PAGE 4.
  • SylviaWolfeSylviaWolfe
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    Inb4 someone accomplishes their goal of trash/drama/text wall spamming enough to get the thread locked. I'd be happy with either a buff to magic or archery or both. I think there are enough hints that elves specialize in both to justify boosts to both, but I can also see where folks are saying that elves aren't the natural mages of the group. Give us some real dps power and utility that doesn't hinge on god-tier internet connection (that 400% speed boost isnt going to do much for those playing in NA, especially with that time limit) or a life-savings spent on reforges. I'd just like to keep up as an elf, rather than watching others clear a room while I miss a shot at 100%. I don't think we need to become the next OP race, but some balance would be lovely. I'm happy to see the giants will be getting a bit of a boost and am a bit confused as to why humans are getting a speed boost considering half of the marketing of elves was "Hey you're so fast though!"
    SherriDaktaro
  • NeynaNeyna
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    Neyna wrote: »
    Please stop arguing guys. You buried my post on page 4. =T
    (You should go read it)

    Also, of lesser importance, I wouldn't particularly like to see either of you band.

    Yeah I did read it, but like I said somewhere there too, that they should give some music buff that gives Magic Attack like BFO for Max damage.
    NA and KR need to realise that not EVERY ELVES lives in NA to keep getting these Archery related buffs.

    Yeah, I remember you said something like that before. It's a minor part of the reason I started thinking about magic buffs for elves.

    However, you should know that, even in the US, archery suffers pretty badly from lag (although, I say this from the east coast). I'd honestly like to see some changes to the way it works in general, so it won't be affected so much by lag, but I think that would involve fixing some pretty entrenched issues (location lag the most annoying), so it's not likely to happen.

    As for the magic BFO, I really don't like the idea, for no reason in particular. I don't think magic needs this, as it's already really good all around. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the damage it can generally dish out to say anything more than that.


    Also, don't apologize to the OP. Everyone can clearly see their post. You should apologize to me, for obscuring my post ON PAGE 4.

    pfft it's the OP's thread that might get removed/locked cause of the 4-5pages of drama.
    And I don't know what your ping is from there to the server, but for me here in Australia, I have over 300 ping. I see people spam ri+ss easily and I don't know if you can or not. However, archery won't benefit EVERYONE. At least Mage isn't DPS (excluding firebolt) unlike archery.

    If you living in the east coast is that bad, think about EU and AU players now.
    Unless they add servers in EU and AU, many wouldn't mind archery revamps/buffs.
    Kaga
  • GreaGrea
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    edited March 11, 2017
    I guess elves could have a skill that mixes the magic and archery aspect, or something.
    Maybe a skill that gives gives a "buff effect" that lets them use arrows made of magic that allow 100% shots, like casting bolt magic, but will constantly drain MP faster than meditation at night could recover, cause magic.
    The arrow bonus damage from the "buff" could possibly be INT and rank based with the actual damage being the DEX with the bow, cause archery.
    Possibly make it fair that any archery skill besides Ranged Attack drains the MP greatly.
    Just an idea that most likely has been said plenty of times, but I haven't really been through the suggestion pages, so sorry on my part.

    Edit:
    Actually, after looking at what the Exclusive "Final Shot" skill does, maybe just change that skill a bit to have 100% shot instead of the increase in aim speed while changing the stamina drain per second to mana drain, but in turn increase the stamina use for any Ranged skills. The skill is short enough with a long enough cool-down. Maybe encourage elves to use the skill? I really don't know anymore after looking through this thread..

    It's been awhile , but what would cause players to actually want to play as an elf nowadays?
  • AstralBlueAstralBlue
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    edited March 12, 2017
    Adding in a new hybridized magic archery skill that allows all races to enchant their arrows with a magic characteristic would possibly be a great addition to archery. Since the idea dawned on me I'll explain it in detail trying to make this skill balanced, but not lacking. I'll call it Enchanted Arrow, and this skill only works with Magnum Shot and Throwing Attack.

    Humans would do 100% damage at r1, elves do 115% at r1 and giants do 90% at r1. In other words, if both the human and the elf had all the same capped stats, magic damage and damage modifiers, humans would do 10k damage while elves do 11.5k damage as an example (they'll do more for sure, but it's just an example). Keep in mind that every calculation is based on Enchanted Arrow skill being r1.

    Elves would lose their Elven Magic Missile skill, but in exchange, they would gain a new elf-exclusive archery skill that I'll call "Elemental Toggler" for the sake of simplicity. Basically what this skill does is that you can freely adjust the element of any archery skill. At rF, the elemental damage bonus would start off weak at around x1.05 damage, but at r1, it would go up to say x1.3 damage. There will be a short cooldown however at 2 seconds at r1. Only elves would be able to use the elemental damage factor.

    Enchanted arrows would be added in the game to be used. Equipping a bow/atlatl and an enchanted arrow/javelin, would enable the bow to be counted a magic weapon (enchanted arrow is the only thing that's considered to be a magic weapon so the bow includes that in the calculations), so the damage boost from magic weapon mastery would apply. Enchanted arrows/javelins themselves would have to be crafted using Magic Craft. The arrows would be made using a stack of 100 arrows and 10 Shyllien to make 100 enchanted arrows. There would be a new Enchanted Quiver that can be crafted using Magic Craft that holds only enchanted arrows up to a 2k stack and a 1k stack of javelins for giants. A store bought Enchanted Quiver would only hold up to 500 enchanted arrows or 200 javelins.

    To elaborate on the idea here's what I mean:

    -Imbuing Lightning Bolt onto a magnum shot would let the magnum shot hit all surrounding mobs with lightning based range damage (both magic characteristic and elemental buff in this case) or they can just use the magic characteristic and magnum shot hits all surrounding mobs. In order to balance this out, the damage would be based on the players magic damage (70% of the damage) and the actual max damage (30% of the damage) so it doesn't do insane damage, but can effectively work as a nice AoE capable of something like 8k critical damage (with a near end-game set) within the standard lightning bolt attack range. Also, since lightning bolt's characteristic is being able to hit as many mobs based on the amount of charges, naturally the arrows would have the same ability. Lightning bolt would be able to chain cast charges, but the cost would multiplied by 5.

    -Imbuing Fire Bolt could do heavy damage like it usually does, but in this case it would be concentrated damage with 50% of the damage based on max damage and the other 50% is based on magic damage. Since Fire bolt's main characteristic is the damage modifier being x6.5 damage at 5 charges, the magnum shot or whatever archery skill would have this ability as well. In theory, this sounds like an incredibly overpowered skill now that I'm thinking about it. An example of the damage calculation would be something like 300 damage for fire bolt's damage (remember this is at 50% magic damage for the formula) and magnum shot's damage would be like 1.5k (at 50% max damage). So 1800 damage for 5 charges would be 1800 x 6.5 and that would equal 11,700 damage. Remember this damage is just the base damage and is only using the magic characteristic into the formula, not critical damage and not elemental-based damage. Since r1 critical hit gives +150% damage, 11,700 damage would jump up to 29,250 damage. So that's already a decent damage considering that elemental weakness damage, further critical damage boosts, capped stats, high max damage and high magic attack are not involved in my calculations.

    -Imbuing Ice Bolt would have the MP vamp, movement speed reduction and can be used up to 5 times. The damage would not be significant since 80% of the damage would be ice bolt based, and 20% would be max damage based. However, the real use of this skill would be the MP vamp's effect. 10% of the damage would be given back as MP. If the damage was 3k, you would get back 300 MP. So if you charged the skill 5 times, you can MP vamp up to 5 times in a row.

    Enchanting the arrows would have a cast time of 1 second per enchanted magic arrow charge. More charges would increase the damage and the amount of mobs that can be hit depending on the bolt magic being enchanted. If the concept is rather vague, it's sort of like Fusion Bolt, but instead of 2 different bolt magic, it would be 1 bolt magic + 1 arrow. Lastly, there would obviously be a MP cost involved.

    There would possibly be a cooldown involved (since it has a tremendous potential) after the enchanted arrow charges are exhausted. So say if you have 5 Ice bolt enchanted arrow charges, when the last charge is used up, the skill goes into cooldown.

    The amount of stamina being used would be pretty high if it was something like 5 lightning bolt-based magnum shots. Since you would be able to launch them consecutively, you would need to pay an appropriate stamina/mp cost. Each element would have it's own mp/stam cost based on the charges. For lightning bolt characteristics, it will be the cost of 5 lightning bolt charges in mp and 5 throwing attack/magnum shot stamina costs (10 stamina at r1 for those skills).

    Now for those who were curious as to why I said humans would get access to this skill as well, the reason being there is no actual limitation for humans not to get it. Additionally, that way humans do not need to be buffed besides simple skill adjustments since they will be quite balanced. In exchange for this, elves when using Final Shot, would be able to bypass the cooldowns for both Elemental Toggle and the Enchanted Arrow skill so it can be used freely AND charging speed for Enchanted Arrow would be reduced from 1 second to say 0.5 seconds.

    The Elemental Toggle skill can stack with elemental reforges, but if a fire element-based mob gets hit with a bow that has fire element on it, the damage calculation would be whatever that reduced damage would be and that would be multiplied by the Elemental Toggle skill. So there's some leeway in terms of damage. There isn't much of a lost if you selected a different element, but you if you did pick fire in this case, the damage would only be the reduced damage as usual.

    And last but not least, this skill will be counted as both magic and range damage. So if there's a magic immune mob, only the range damage of the formula would work and vice versa. The magic characteristics would still work as normal however. As for Elemental Toggle, any damage boosts from the element imbuement would not be added, so there's no need to worry about even further reduced damage besides if the mob is magic or range damage immune.
    SherriSylviaWolfe
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
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    I leave for a few hours and all hell breaks loose.
    I kinda hate that I wasn't around to see this earlier, but oh well. Not reading the whole thing right now. Here's what I'm thinking:

    -Give elves more magic defence/prot somehow (maybe through magic mastery?), with a focus on prot
    -Give elves a higher base MP regen rate
    -Maybe give elves an exclusive mana shield buff? (probably through an indirect buff, with a passive 10% all-round mana usage reduction, or a change in mana shield itself so that it uses magic def and/or prot to reduce damage, and thus favor elves, who would have the highest of those stats)
    -Give elves some kind of elemental-infusion skill(s), which they could use with bows and magic weapons to add/increase damage of a certain element (with the added bonus of serving as an additional source of int)

    That's about it for magic. Of course, I think elves could use a few archery buffs too (mostly slight improvements on FS and mirage missile), and the changes made here would warrant other changes to compliment them (changes to content to make these things relevant, similar buffs to other races), but this is the center of it.

    Actually pretty good, I like. I'd also like to see something like elf exclusive gear that gave various set buffs, although I feel like mp regen/reduction is probably one of those ones that has become meaningless all things considered. Having something like a 'useless shield' of some sort that when paired with a certain wand increases damage for a particular element would be kind of cool, make wands relevant outside of chain cast.

    Also have similar thoughts on elf archery, but that is another topic. Some skill like golden time which add effects and damage to certain archery skills would be pretty fun though.

    Kaga wrote: »
    First one, more magic attack for each 5 int compared to now (5 int = 1 m att)
    Right now with the updates I see both Giants and humans as a stronger race compared to elves.

    So for something like this I think adding bonus magic attack at certain thresholds would work best, something like elves receive an extra 5 magic attack at 100 int and another 5 at 200, and maybe like 10 or 15 at 1k int... you get the point, by doing it that way it is a fixed number and avoids giving elves like twice as much magic attack for the same int. Any difference in damage should be noticeable, but not unreasonable. Also would an elf BFO replace all other buffs (I feel like it should) and be shared by entire party like normal bard skills, because elves would be a lot more popular if it was.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • VenenatisVenenatis
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    edited March 11, 2017
    On a less sarcastic note, I'd like to see a casting speed buff but if that would be too strong (probably would lets be real) maybe a buff to meditation and less mana use. For a magic attack buff maybe make it like 4.5 int per magic attack. So something like 1.5k/5 int = 300 matk for other races and 1.5k/4.5 = 333. 30 matk is a fair amount, but look at the losses they take in str, I think that makes up for it honestly.
  • AstralBlueAstralBlue
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    Venenatis wrote: »
    On a less sarcastic note, I'd like to see a casting speed buff but if that would be too strong (probably would lets be real) maybe a buff to meditation and less mana use. For a magic attack buff maybe make it like 4.5 int per magic attack. So something like 1.5k/5 int = 300 matk for other races and 1.5k/4.5 = 333. 30 matk is a fair amount, but look at the losses they take in str, I think that makes up for it honestly.
    333 MATK isn't much, so I feel like it'll barely make a difference.

  • VenenatisVenenatis
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    AstralBlue wrote: »
    Venenatis wrote: »
    On a less sarcastic note, I'd like to see a casting speed buff but if that would be too strong (probably would lets be real) maybe a buff to meditation and less mana use. For a magic attack buff maybe make it like 4.5 int per magic attack. So something like 1.5k/5 int = 300 matk for other races and 1.5k/4.5 = 333. 30 matk is a fair amount, but look at the losses they take in str, I think that makes up for it honestly.
    333 MATK isn't much, so I feel like it'll barely make a difference.

    Honestly what I would really like to see is magic pen in some form, elf exclusive or not. I wouldn't really count hydra either.
  • TamisraTamisra
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    Kaga wrote: »
    Tamisra wrote: »
    There is no reason to buff elves beyond the 400% aim speed coming their way shortly. This more then compensates since it takes the already highest DPS in the game, magnum shot, and makes it viable to handle crowds with it since you can essentially use it as quickly as firebolt, or eliminate the enemy before any others even reach you. Buffing magic post Vision of Ladeca, especially by lowering casting times or increasing magic attack for elves would be like giving humans the ability to triple bash even though humans already (currently) are dominant.

    a 400% aim speed that lasts ATLEAST for 15 mins (IF you are 25k and you can use it once a day) and that should fix elves?




    k.

    Usable one per IN GAME day. 15 minutes minimum duration, increasing with total level. Literally for half of your in game day or more you get 400% aim speed.
  • AstralBlueAstralBlue
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    Tamisra wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Tamisra wrote: »
    There is no reason to buff elves beyond the 400% aim speed coming their way shortly. This more then compensates since it takes the already highest DPS in the game, magnum shot, and makes it viable to handle crowds with it since you can essentially use it as quickly as firebolt, or eliminate the enemy before any others even reach you. Buffing magic post Vision of Ladeca, especially by lowering casting times or increasing magic attack for elves would be like giving humans the ability to triple bash even though humans already (currently) are dominant.

    a 400% aim speed that lasts ATLEAST for 15 mins (IF you are 25k and you can use it once a day) and that should fix elves?




    k.

    Usable one per IN GAME day. 15 minutes minimum duration, increasing with total level. Literally for half of your in game day or more you get 400% aim speed.
    As far as I know it was not determined to be once per in-game day. It was sort of a gray area where no one knew whether or not it was once a real life day or an in-game day. If you have a source that specifically says this, post the source.
  • TamisraTamisra
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    AstralBlue wrote: »
    Tamisra wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Tamisra wrote: »
    There is no reason to buff elves beyond the 400% aim speed coming their way shortly. This more then compensates since it takes the already highest DPS in the game, magnum shot, and makes it viable to handle crowds with it since you can essentially use it as quickly as firebolt, or eliminate the enemy before any others even reach you. Buffing magic post Vision of Ladeca, especially by lowering casting times or increasing magic attack for elves would be like giving humans the ability to triple bash even though humans already (currently) are dominant.

    a 400% aim speed that lasts ATLEAST for 15 mins (IF you are 25k and you can use it once a day) and that should fix elves?




    k.

    Usable one per IN GAME day. 15 minutes minimum duration, increasing with total level. Literally for half of your in game day or more you get 400% aim speed.
    As far as I know it was not determined to be once per in-game day. It was sort of a gray area where no one knew whether or not it was once a real life day or an in-game day. If you have a source that specifically says this, post the source.

    I know people who play on KR, and it is once per in game day.
  • HazurahHazurah
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    WHY WE ELF WANT DUAL WIELDING?
    simple
    here is one of the reason
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool
  • KororeKorore
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    I will have to ask you guys to please keep this thread on topic.

    Everyone has a right to their opinion, and whether or not we agree with it, it has to be respected.
    BlissfulkillXiokunSherriSylviaWolfe
  • KagaKaga
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    edited March 12, 2017
    Tamisra wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Tamisra wrote: »
    There is no reason to buff elves beyond the 400% aim speed coming their way shortly. This more then compensates since it takes the already highest DPS in the game, magnum shot, and makes it viable to handle crowds with it since you can essentially use it as quickly as firebolt, or eliminate the enemy before any others even reach you. Buffing magic post Vision of Ladeca, especially by lowering casting times or increasing magic attack for elves would be like giving humans the ability to triple bash even though humans already (currently) are dominant.

    a 400% aim speed that lasts ATLEAST for 15 mins (IF you are 25k and you can use it once a day) and that should fix elves?




    k.

    Usable one per IN GAME day. 15 minutes minimum duration, increasing with total level. Literally for half of your in game day or more you get 400% aim speed.

    Increasing yes, but it lasts for 15 mins IF you are 25k+ (which i doubt most are) not from ttl 1.
    Oh also, not all elves love to stand in a corner and spam magnum, and there is something called elf archery lag for both NA and EU.

    Only good thing about this update for elves is Shine of Eweca imo. Atleast that will benefit both archery and magic.
  • SirRyuSirRyu
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    Give them access to Magic Missile during FS, there now they got their archery magic skill to play with.
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
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    Venenatis wrote: »
    On a less sarcastic note, I'd like to see a casting speed buff but if that would be too strong (probably would lets be real) maybe a buff to meditation and less mana use. For a magic attack buff maybe make it like 4.5 int per magic attack. So something like 1.5k/5 int = 300 matk for other races and 1.5k/4.5 = 333. 30 matk is a fair amount, but look at the losses they take in str, I think that makes up for it honestly.

    Actually a casting speed boost wouldn't be that bad so long as it didn't apply to bolt magic. It only gets broken when you take chain cast firebolts into account.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    I have a thread for this.
    Greta
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Neyna wrote: »
    If you living in the east coast is that bad, think about EU and AU players now.
    Unless they add servers in EU and AU, many wouldn't mind archery revamps/buffs.

    The only changes I want to see made to archery are changes in its basic mechanics to make lag less of a factor, which should benefit everyone. It's not like I'm asking for some shiny new archery skill; I actually love the simplicity of ranged combat in its current form.
    I'm happy to see the giants will be getting a bit of a boost and am a bit confused as to why humans are getting a speed boost considering half of the marketing of elves was "Hey you're so fast though!"

    I'm confused as well, but we'll see how it goes. Personally, I'm hoping it affects humans in RPs. Maybe the G10 Maiz RP won't be so bad in the future.

    Also, it'll be funny to see elves not be the fastest. Even though I'm maining an elf now.
    AstralBlue wrote: »
    Adding in a new hybridized magic archery skill that allows elves and humans to enchant their arrows with a magic characteristic would possibly be a great addition to archery. Since the idea dawned on me I'll explain it in detail trying to make this skill balanced, but not lacking. I'll call it Enchanted Arrow, and this skill only works with Magnum Shot.

    Naturally humans would get this as well (since humans have just as much access to those skills as elves), but elves would get a boosted damage 115% for elves at r1, while humans get 100%. In other words, if both the human and the elf had all the same capped stats, magic damage and damage modifiers, humans would do 10k damage while elves do 11.5k damage as an example (they'll do more for sure, but it's just an example). Keep in mind that every calculation is based on Enchanted Arrow skill being r1.

    Elves would lose their Elven Magic Missile skill, but in exchange, they would gain a new elf-exclusive archery skill that I'll call "Elemental Toggler" for the sake of simplicity. Basically what this skill does is that you can freely adjust the element of any archery skill. At rF, the elemental damage bonus would start off weak at around x1.05 damage, but at r1, it would go up to say x1.3 damage. There will be a short cooldown however at 2 seconds at r1. Only elves would be able to use the elemental damage factor.

    I had a similar idea in mind.

    While I do like your idea of adding unique characteristics to each element (I was only thinking of additional damage), I think your idea is kind of OP, and too convoluted.

    After reading your idea, I'm imagining a skill with the following qualities:
    - Toggled, remains on until turned off (like meditation or mana shield)
    - Uses MP per shot
    - Can be used with both Bows and Magic Weapons
    - Both versions act as an additional elemental mastery, adding 15% elemental damage at rank 1 (based on physical bow damage, in the case of a bow)
    - Magic Version acts as a Trinity Staff-like charge on the weapon, and while active, charging a bolt of any element but the currently charged element will result in a fusion bolt
    - Bow Version affects all ranged skills
    - Deals and additional 15% (at rank 1) of the user's damage as physical elemental damage, and has one additional characteristic, depending on the element chosen
    - Lightning results in either additional stun and/or increased splash range (for magnum, mirage missile, and crash shot)
    - Ice results in a slow, as you've mentioned. I think it's a good idea.
    - Fire results in burning DoT, or maybe increased armor pierce (or something similar that ignores Prot instead). I also considered increased knockback, but that doesn't seem quite as useful as the other effects.
    - These effects only affect the initial target (crash shot fragments and mirage missile DoT would be unaffected)

    I also think it'd be neat if, instead of the skill itself, Humans could obtain bows/wands that come with a similar (but lesser) effect (for a single element only), IF they're elf-aligned.
    SylviaWolfeAstralBlue
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    I have a thread for this.

    Guys, a forum with the same topic already exists. Should probably take this there.