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Ap skill ranking shulda been Ap skill mastering.

Comments

  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,165
    Posts: 2,259
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    TheNyanCat wrote: »
    "You mastered xxx skill? You must really like it."

    "Nah I just used it once ad then dumped a ton of ap into it until it was mastered."

    No. Just no. I also think that A training should be locked until a certain total level, newbies might waste all their starting ap on this and even worse reset at Duncan to train other stuff but just don't have the AP and end up being weak for their total.

    Yeah, that is a big concern, if it's true you don't get the AP back from training (I've never reset my characters' skills). I will agree though that it's a very handy set up, especially in regard to CP trained skills.

    However, mastering a skill should take time and have some difficulty. That's what makes it a point of pride to have. The master-by-ap system would likely annoy players who put in the time and effort it takes to obtain that title. It took me the better part of a year and a half for mastering both Magic Craft and Engineering, and I'm one of several on my server to have those titles. We don't need the master-by-ap system. It can be done. As I said, Double Skill Exp Potions, Talents (in most cases, granted, not all) and Double Rainbow events.

    Regarding Girgashiy runs, I would like there to be more missions for it.
    TheNyanCat
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,295
    Posts: 154
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited May 31, 2017
    Arjune wrote: »
    mastering will be worth it soon for about 36 skills... because they're revamping DAN ranks and you need master to get DAN :D

    Since when did you need the master title to Dan things....to my knowledge that's not even part of the upcoming update.

    Source : Dan 3 non mastered smith
    Rhey wrote: »
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    -Crafted Guns vs. X-Grade Daella's from gacha are a joke.
    -Craft bars/Shuriken? The bonus max is laughable.
    -Remember awakened enchant from Alban? Fierce Accessories, Haunted Accessories, and awakened in gacha would like to talk to you
    -Rate of getting divine materials are a joke (and afk anyway)
    -Rate of Dungeon drops are a joke (Seriously 40+ AAHM with 8 keys and still no radiant thread or any good material...)
    -Remember the destruction robe? Still doesn't exist
    -Soluna blade? Still doesn't exist
    -Destruction SET? Still doesn't exist

    The game needs things to run. Not just like 2 dungeons that are even borderline relevant. I'm all for the updates we've gotten lately, but what hasn't changed is what we can do with all these abilities. We have a giant update coming that's only going to make players even stronger...but why? Momento dungeon looks alright but...like content? We need a content overhaul to the extend that g9/g10 did. So many new missions that we can do.

    Pretty much.

    Also heeey Joey~! Ur still around. Kewl.

    83801651.gif

    I just stopped playing for a while due to life things and completely stopped using the forums after the switch.
  • SylekSylek
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 166
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Maia wrote: »
    AP training for crusader pls. I don't play MMOs to party with people.

    What...? That literally would kill Girgashiy raids 100%.

    I dOn'T pLaY mMoS tO pArTy wItH pEoPlE.

    I'd agree with you if it was suddenly possible for you to shield, spike, and blade the girg on your own. I'm primarily a Shield (R1) when I do raid but I could use the others (R5 but with almost no subskills). I'm not for the AP training either. The skills aren't that hard to rank up, they just, like all skills, take some time.

    You don't play MMOs to party with people, you don't like to grind at all... why bother? I know the grind sucks, but you're going to find it in a lot of your MMOs and a key feature of an MMO is all kinds of interactions with other people. What makes the grind suck a little less? Friends and parties.
    GretaTwelie
  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,315
    Posts: 483
    Member
    edited May 31, 2017
    I don't think you need to master the skill to do Dan test...?
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,295
    Posts: 154
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    Ellisya wrote: »
    I don't think you need to master the skill to do Dan test...?

    You do not~~
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,170
    Posts: 2,724
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    Arjune wrote: »
    mastering will be worth it soon for about 36 skills... because they're revamping DAN ranks and you need master to get DAN :D

    Actually, you don't need to master it now, and you still won't need to master it after the revamp.
    To wear the "Lightning" or "Mysterious" prefix or whatever they'll be called later, maybe.

    But not to take the test.
    If you needed the master title, then the Charge Dan test would be impossible! (still no confirmed cases of getting that "stop a charging enemy" training done)
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Arjune wrote: »
    mastering will be worth it soon for about 36 skills... because they're revamping DAN ranks and you need master to get DAN :D

    Actually, you don't need to master it now, and you still won't need to master it after the revamp.
    To wear the "Lightning" or "Mysterious" prefix or whatever they'll be called later, maybe.

    But not to take the test.
    If you needed the master title, then the Charge Dan test would be impossible! (still no confirmed cases of getting that "stop a charging enemy" training done)

    I thought there were a few confirmed cases of getting points towards that from npc tourney.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    SirRyu wrote: »
    I thought there were a few confirmed cases of getting points towards that from npc tourney.

    Only very rarely, as the NPCes with charge are more prone to run at you than to use charge at all. As a reference point, in all the years since the mission's release I've only seen charge used twice to date. For all intents and purposes, the master title might as well be impossible.
  • Goldtiger01Goldtiger01
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,125
    Posts: 36
    Member
    Honestly, people are just voting to keep it hardcore because they probably don't want their grind in the past to be simplified in the future lol. I honestly think that the amount of grind associated with this game (especially with life skills) is insane, and it keeps me from wanting to play it. I've been playing nonstop ever since the AP Training stuff because it makes the game tolerable, as I don't have to spend DAYS trying to rank up a skill once with only 2x talent boost. If they allow AP Training with mastering, then there's another part of the game being more tolerable already.
    XiokunZeo
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,900
    Posts: 1,493
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    Honestly, people are just voting to keep it hardcore because they probably don't want their grind in the past to be simplified in the future lol. I honestly think that the amount of grind associated with this game (especially with life skills) is insane, and it keeps me from wanting to play it. I've been playing nonstop ever since the AP Training stuff because it makes the game tolerable, as I don't have to spend DAYS trying to rank up a skill once with only 2x talent boost. If they allow AP Training with mastering, then there's another part of the game being more tolerable already.

    giphy.gif

    Mabi's integrity already went out the window a long time ago. At this point it's about making it more tolerable.
    Danievictria
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,690
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    oh my memory is bad then. I remembered mastering blacksmithing for some Dan-related reason, but now I remember it was to wear the "Celebrity" title... woops
  • ShouKShouK
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    I'm against AP training for skills and obviously a huge no for master as well. That takes out the feeling of achievement after completing it.

    I joined late and most people on the server are OP as hell already..so I became motivated to R1 "hard" skills that some veterans did not, because of how tedious it is, to feel some sense of accomplishment. Hence I worked my ass and money off to R1 blacksmith and other grindy skills. Now? Oh don't worry, you just need to be playing longer and have tons of AP to cap all skills, and not doing actual efforts. It just widens the gap between new players and old players. And as a result discourages new players to play.
    GretaChaosShadow
  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,040
    Posts: 312
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    ShouK wrote: »
    I'm against AP training for skills and obviously a huge no for master as well. That takes out the feeling of achievement after completing it.

    I joined late and most people on the server are OP as hell already..so I became motivated to R1 "hard" skills that some veterans did not, because of how tedious it is, to feel some sense of accomplishment. Hence I worked my ass and money off to R1 blacksmith and other grindy skills. Now? Oh don't worry, you just need to be playing longer and have tons of AP to cap all skills, and not doing actual efforts. It just widens the gap between new players and old players. And as a result discourages new players to play.

    You can still feel a sense of self-accomplishment. It's just nobody else is going to really care. And what evidence do you have that AP training is even discouraging new players? Do you go up to every new player you see and ask for their opinions about it?
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,295
    Posts: 154
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Raishii wrote: »
    ShouK wrote: »
    I'm against AP training for skills and obviously a huge no for master as well. That takes out the feeling of achievement after completing it.

    I joined late and most people on the server are OP as hell already..so I became motivated to R1 "hard" skills that some veterans did not, because of how tedious it is, to feel some sense of accomplishment. Hence I worked my ass and money off to R1 blacksmith and other grindy skills. Now? Oh don't worry, you just need to be playing longer and have tons of AP to cap all skills, and not doing actual efforts. It just widens the gap between new players and old players. And as a result discourages new players to play.

    You can still feel a sense of self-accomplishment. It's just nobody else is going to really care. And what evidence do you have that AP training is even discouraging new players? Do you go up to every new player you see and ask for their opinions about it?

    I do have my qualms with new players having access to AP training. It's not a good thing to do early (Or ever actually) in character development. While AP isn't as hard as it to get as it was a few years ago new players progress is still abysmal. For a new player to catch up they have to invest AP into skills. All the AP invested into to skills correlates to stats and player power. If a newish (Face it anyone under like 10k) decides to invest into AP training a certain skill they lose out on potential player growth. This is BAD...especially in a game where a new player catching up is already essentially impossible.
    GretaTheNyanCat
  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,040
    Posts: 312
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    edited June 1, 2017
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Raishii wrote: »
    ShouK wrote: »
    I'm against AP training for skills and obviously a huge no for master as well. That takes out the feeling of achievement after completing it.

    I joined late and most people on the server are OP as hell already..so I became motivated to R1 "hard" skills that some veterans did not, because of how tedious it is, to feel some sense of accomplishment. Hence I worked my ass and money off to R1 blacksmith and other grindy skills. Now? Oh don't worry, you just need to be playing longer and have tons of AP to cap all skills, and not doing actual efforts. It just widens the gap between new players and old players. And as a result discourages new players to play.

    You can still feel a sense of self-accomplishment. It's just nobody else is going to really care. And what evidence do you have that AP training is even discouraging new players? Do you go up to every new player you see and ask for their opinions about it?

    I do have my qualms with new players having access to AP training. It's not a good thing to do early (Or ever actually) in character development. While AP isn't as hard as it to get as it was a few years ago new players progress is still abysmal. For a new player to catch up they have to invest AP into skills. All the AP invested into to skills correlates to stats and player power. If a newish (Face it anyone under like 10k) decides to invest into AP training a certain skill they lose out on potential player growth. This is BAD...especially in a game where a new player catching up is already essentially impossible.

    There's nothing saying that they have to use it, though. If they decide to waste away 8, 15, or 20 AP just to train a requirement without thinking that it should better invested into ranking up the skill itself, that's really on them. In other words, blame the player, not the mechanic of the game. And I don't think I can ever relate to the whole "catch up" mentality because I games at a steady pace. What's even the rush, especially in this game. The generations, Alban training grounds, Phantasm, and the upcoming Memento thing aren't going anywhere.
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,295
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    My main reason to "catch up" is to play with others. I honestly can't even invite friends to play mabi. Not when it's like "Yeah, you wont ever have the strength I do...not even if you play for the next 2 years.".

    It's really discouraging.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,795
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    edited June 1, 2017
    I am bothered due to how skill training button shows up in the skill menu like it is the damn rank up button. Can't we make it a bit more...out of the way? What if newbs make mistakes because they misunderstood the system?

    Why not make AP training be possible only through an NPC like Duncan?

    And I would disagree with you Shouk. Many players probably don't play an aging game because of the difficulty and grinding curves. Most games well past their prime usually revamp older content to be pleasing, easier, or otherwise. Past generations and such used to be endgame, after all. People often get discouraged because they cannot catch up, but this is one of many systems that makes it feasible if used right.
    Arjune
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,690
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    I am bothered due to how skill training button shows up in the skill menu like it is the damn rank up button. Can't we make it a bit more...out of the way? What if newbs make mistakes because they misunderstood the system?.

    THISSSS ^ ^ ^ I was training a few simple combat skills on an alt character the other day and I'm like... couldn't they have made the button a different color or separate or SOMETHING? I kept thinking skills were available to rank up but they were "AP Train". it was the first time I saw how the system actually worked since my main has nothing trainable and I think it's really dumb how it was implemented
    Greta
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,795
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    edited June 1, 2017
    Xiokun wrote: »
    Sylek wrote: »
    Instead of focusing on end-game and power, what about content for anytime?

    THIS. It's about time someone said this. I'm tired of everyone going "WE NEED NEW CONTENT TO KEEP US BUSY", only for everyone to get hype, rush it into the ground in the first week, post on the forums "LOOK I DID IT FIRST LOOK HOW EASY IT WAS LOL", then next week go allllllll over again with "WE NEED MORE CONTENT".

    There's too much power to the point where it's just unnecessary for the game, unless you want to rush every minute of it getting those pretty end-game manuals just so you can AFK in dunbarton with it and have all the other players gawk at you. Once you can hit 100k in ANY sort of skill, be it loads of bashing, blazing, judgement blade, what have you, I think you're strong enough. I stopped working so hard on getting great equips for this and that because I don't want to, 1, sell my soul to RNG just for cool high numbers on damage and whine when I wasted all my money and gold, and 2, GET all those cool equips to still not be as strong as -enter group of well known OP player's name here-, and most of all, 3, I don't want mabinogi to become the equivalent of a cookie clicker app where you click some monsters just for gold to pop out. We need something in mabinogi that will be here FOREVER and keep us busy FOREVER. Right now the only thing like that is Shadow Missions. There's not a soul I know who doesn't do shadow mission dailies often, granted they're not a fashionogi. They do it for training, for gold, for exp, and even for FUN! We need more of this.

    To sum it up, we need more content that will support genuine fun rather than making people power hike. ..And yes, I'm looking at you, Rabbie Phanstam. Take out all the tanky mobs, huge HP pools, and no-stun monsters out of Rabbie Phanstam and you realize that damage is really the only thing you need 90% of the time, not skill or thought. :T

    If there is any reason any powerful players still run Shadow Missions together, it is because they feel lonely or do not have an Elite pass. :(
  • RheyRhey
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    If there is any reason any powerful players still run Shadow Missions together, it is because they feel lonely or do not have an Elite pass. :(

    Or it culd be to help others...Vet's are nice too u know. :(