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Composing Revamp

Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
Mabinogi Rep: 7,185
Posts: 1,303
Member
edited December 22, 2016 in Feedback and Suggestions
To be honest, it's really hard to tell which notes I need to change just by hearing something's out of tune. Can we have a Mabinogi style karaoke note that bounces along with the notes you've placed during the preview? Also, it's impossible to go back an edit with your mouse, it takes far too long to back arrow all the way to the wayward note. Plus, if notes are unavailable to the instrument or notes, they aren't grayed out and it wastes even more time backspacing.
DaktaroSherriHardmuscleIchigo015

Comments

  • ZincathonZincathon
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    Member
    Google "3MLE". Use that program for scroll creation, not Mabinogi.
    SephanleHardmuscle
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,185
    Posts: 1,303
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    edited December 23, 2016
    [quote]Google "3MLE". Use that program for scroll creation, not Mabinogi.[/quote]

    No way, using off sites for years is no excuse for letting Nexon get off being lazy and not provide us with the technology we need.
    ImaizumiIchigo015
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,520
    Posts: 1,971
    Member
    edited December 23, 2016
    I actually agree. I googled it and half the websites on the first page.. well..
    My antivirus tells me right away if websites are not safe and a lot of them weren't.
    Also, if I were to get into making scrolls, I don't want to download anything.
    What's the point? I want something IN GAME.

    Also I don't understand music notes and all that.
    I'd want something where I play music and it automatically puts it into music sheet or MML.
    But nah, I bet there is nothing like that out there. -_-
    That would be too much to ask for.

    ..Either way, I support this. +1
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,810
    Posts: 315
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    While I don't play an instrument irl either, I cantell you that making an algorithm like that would be absolutely outrageousely complicated even outside of mabi.

    Each time you play a note, there will be an insanely huge amount of frequencies of vibrations emitted through movements in our air (hence there's no sound in vacuum, as there's nothing to transfer the vibrations). Aside from the note played, there are also various frequencies stacked on top of every note depending on the instrument and various other factors (which is how instruments playing the same note manage to sound different from one another). On top of that, each infinitely small segment of music has multiple instruments playing multiple notes at the same time. So simply put...there's just too much going on to easily identify what instruments are involved or what they're playing. Even if it's somehow possible, I don't think mabi can do it, sadly. I think MP3 to midi is an art of its own, especially if it's not read from a file, but from a microphone with varying recording quality, limits and filtering (lowering the amplitude of certain frequencies and such).

    However, graying out notes could be neat for beginners, I suppose, same with indicators for when scales repeat (like on the old flute, where below a certan threshold the same scale keeps repeating on the same octave instead of going an octave lower).

    I was delighted to hear that something like 3MLE came out for mabi, since that means if there's ever an update that 3MLE can't keep up with (because it's not being updated), mabi will still have its own composer. Plus within mabi you can use all mls files at once, whereas in 3MLE we have to switch to hear some instruments, making composing a jam really difficult. So I'd love to see this expanded upon. I support this idea.
    Hardmuscle
  • ZincathonZincathon
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,010
    Posts: 77
    Member
    edited January 20, 2017
    Darkpixie99

    Google "3MLE". Use that program for scroll creation, not Mabinogi.
    No way, using off sites for years is no excuse for letting Nexon get off being lazy and not provide us with the technology we need.

    Oh trust me, Nexon should be going crazy with the bug list. But the sad reality is they aren't going to. Therefore, workarounds take place, mods happen, exploits happen. It's their choice to not fix a broken game. So people deal with it in their own ways.
    Sherri
    Sherri said:

    I actually agree. I googled it and half the websites on the first page.. well..
    My antivirus tells me right away if websites are not safe and a lot of them weren't.
    Hardmuscle
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,685
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    edited December 23, 2016
    Regarding 3MLE, there's a link to the original developer's site on the bottom of the MML page at Mabinogi World Wiki. There are some big differences between the original version of 3MLE and the one being offered by Mabibeats. Mostly because 3MLE is no longer being further developed, so the original version lacks support for a number of instruments and such.

    http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/MML
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,520
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    @Zincathon
    As said, I do not want to download anything. >.>
    Sooo
    Hardmuscle
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,685
    Posts: 2,550
    Member
    edited December 24, 2016
    @Sherri

    That's certainly your prerogative and I don't believe anyone is 'forcing' you to go against your choice. Just keep in mind, the majority of MML you can find already done, and ready for you to play, was created in 3MLE. As there are no other applications (currently in existence, aside from mabi) which will do the job. There used to be an MML Composer on Mabinogi's main site (both here and in Korea), but they were taken down years ago for a variety of reasons. On the level of 'virus worries', you could (if you wanted to) copy the URL for the download (without downloading it) and scan it on Virus Total (an online scanner to check applications for threats). I'm fairly certain, you will find the app to be clean of infection and to be exactly what it has been stated to be. It's one thing to be worried about a program download; it's another to avoid the very common practice of confirming whether or not such a fear is a valid one. ~ I personally use 3MLE and have never had a problem.☺

    https://www.virustotal.com/#url

    A little note: I am only defending the copy available on Mabibeats and the original copy of 3MLE on its original developer's website (3ml.jp). I can't speak for any of the other copies you might find on the world wide web, and I don't suggest using them. If you do happen to investigate this any farther, you may notice there is a major size difference (about 300mb difference) between the last original 3MLE release and the copy distributed by Mabibeats. This is because the copy on Mabibeats is using the sound files (.dls) for modern day Mabinogi, to provide support for all instruments currently being used in the game; In contrast to the original version, which only supports the standard .midi library.☺

    @Siodhan

    On the level of .mp3 to .midi (or mml) conversion; that is technically "not possible". It is possible to get a very close rendition in some sound editors, but the two formats (.mp3 and .midi) are indeed worlds apart. You can convert a .midi (or an mml) to an .mp3, but this isn't so true the other way around, as an .mp3 is a recording of sound (in a non-human-readable format), while a .midi and an mml are not. A .midi (like an mml) contains no audio/sound recording (unlike an .mp3) and is the computer equivalent to sheet music, in a human-readable format.☺

    @Darkpixie99

    It's possible, if we nag Nexon enough, for them to put the Original Mabinogi Composer back on their site. I have a copy of it, which I can still use (as a part of a copy of Mabinogi's entire Composer Library I obtained shortly before they took it down; a library consisting of more than 25,000 unique MMLs - or 60,000+ counting all of the duplicates), but it's not much different than the composer currently built into the game.

    On the level of supporting your vaguely detailed suggestion, I would very much like to have 3MLE built into Mabinogi (a set of composing features similar to, or exactly like, 3MLE). If not for the ability to convert .midi files to mml alone; That by itself would make life easier.☺
    SiodhanSherriADirtyCouch
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    @Hardmuscle

    Yeah, it's definitely possible. Just..within mabi probably not. The closest thing I could think of would be to allow mabi to scan a music file (which could have its own risks as well) for frequencies and since the developers of mabi themselves SHOULD (or maybe by now, they really don't) know, they could scan for all frequencies used by mabi's midi instruments. Sadly even that would be horribly complicated and whatever's not in that huge bag of frequencies will inevitably be missing in the final piece. Plus without mabi supporting a 3MLE-like system to begin with, it couldn't fit all of that into an MML for a jam. So..it mostly leads back to: please do expand on this ingame composer, it's a great idea and it's a step towards long-term, expandable improvement. Something that nearly no part of mabinogi has ever seen, because they invent something once and then forget about it until 10+ years later.
    Hardmuscle
  • NikomisNikomis
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    I tend to agree with the complexity issues votes here.

    Also if you can read Japanese, MakiMabi Sequencer (MMSEQ) is pretty good for people who don't necessarily know how to type the music or read sheet music or who just want to draw notes on the GUI. It doesn't support the new instruments though because it is old as dirt and the English version was taken down years ago. It's still a pretty solid option with a lot of different tools for editing MMLs that 3MLE doesn't have.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,185
    Posts: 1,303
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    edited December 27, 2016
    Guys, it's called work for a reason. Nexon claims to be innovative, yet they don't put forth the effort because they let the technology restrict them. We need improvements for both new and old features. If they can't do something as simple as working with KR on upgrading the core of Mabinogi, then they'll never make money or keep the fanbase. It's as simple as that.