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Stricter Blacklisting and changes to this function

Comments

  • RuzukiRuzuki
    Mabinogi Rep: 810
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    edited March 21, 2017
    I also want to add that there need to be a better way to actually add someone to the blacklist. I have several different players sending me notes every few days to harass me, but I cant find them in game to even try to blacklist them normally. (Which, until I read the rest of this thread, I assumed blacklisting them via 'right-click' would fix the problem. I added them to the options blacklist but that didn't work)
    If someone is sending you notes or mail, adding an option to blacklist them from there would be nice.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
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    Please consider the following to be added to the current blacklisting system to make it more user-friendly and make the community better for everyone.
    - Blacklist counts as a separate list from the list of friends. Adding someone to blacklist does not take up a spot on the actual friend's list (after all if you blacklist you dont want to be friends for some reason)
    - Blacklisting hides your character from the offender which you blacklist preventing them from seeing you login or what channels you are on. You will show up offline to anyone who is on your blacklist no matter if they also have you blacklisted or not.
    - Blacklisting a player prevents them from sending all of the following to you: Private messages, Group private messages involving the blacklisted person and others, notes, mail, and whispers. Once blacklisted the normal chat said by the person is not seen as well as their character not being seen.
    - Blacklisted persons are not able to join parties hosted by the person who blacklisted them.
    - A notice will popup anytime a person tries to contact someone that has blacklisted them to notify them. Such as "This player has blacklisted you. Please refrain from further contact with the player."

    The reason for these changes: Current blacklisting system does not provide ample support to the players to prevent offending persons from contacting them in the game to disrupt their activities. By adding these suggestions it will help make the game more welcoming and inviting as well as help the players feel more comfortable.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    I support this.
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,200
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    edited August 3, 2017
    it seems like the current blacklist system benefits the person you are blacklisting more then it helps you. they can still send you notes, they can see you and you can't see them, and you can still see their public party when they are trying to sell stuff. when someone is blacklisted it is often for a good reason so they should not be able to contact you or see you in any way at all.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,900
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    edited August 3, 2017
    This is a very shady sector for me. Only because it takes more than one person to argue (it's a fact of life). I'm not opposed to having features that work, like I am with having features that don't work, and with that said, I'd like very much for features we currently have in the game to work properly. It makes no sense for someone you have blocked to retain an ability (of any kind) to communicate with you in any fashion.

    That aside; .... there are a number of other things to consider here (mostly related to game play optimization and stuff like that). If you block too many people, over a course of time, the game will become slower. As the list of blocked users grows longer and longer, the game has to process more and more information to provide the custom view you have arranged. ~ This could be a problem down the road.

    Referring to 'Hide All' ~ Blocking all of an object-type (users in an area) is a little different than specifying each blocked-user by name.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
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    You do make a good point about the larger lists increasing lag due to the code having to run for each person whenever they cross paths with you. I am not exactly sure how to aliviate that without fully understanding the coding process used to make this possible. Depending how complex the commands are they can execute rather fast or have certain checks which the condition has to go through first like one check is if the person is on the blacklist and if that is true these things happen. So if that is true then the suggestions could be added to the list of things that happen if the condition of blacklist is true.

    I remember the hide all you are refering to. It use to happen a lot at banquets due to overplay so that only one group playing could be heard and not the others. I dont know if that would come into play unless maybe a group of people started mimicing the bahavior that the original person was blacklisted for but its hard to tell really.
  • purpleypurpley
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    I would like to see it as a separate list so it doesn't take up space on the friends list. There is also a way to blacklist through the options under chat; don't know if that functions any differently as far as notes but I believe you can delete someone first so they cant see you on/off line, channel ect. then add their name to blacklist in options. As the man said though it takes two to argue and I can honestly say after nearly 10yrs in mabi the only ones on my blacklist are the gold selling bots.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
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    The current system does not prevent blacklisted people from sending you notes or viewing which channels you are logging on to. I have a person blacklisted but i still see them login and am certain they see which channel I am logging on to as well. Blacklist should end all forms of communication and show the person offline to anyone who is blacklisted. The reason I wish to blacklist people is due to problems they cause and periodically restart through aquantiences they have. I would like to block them and not have them contact me at all anymore, but the current system has flaws and allow loopholes such as group chats and notes involving persons who are on my blacklist.
  • SherriSherri
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    I agree, the blacklist system could be a lot more better.

    I'm the kind of person who blacklists somebody who is being rude and then after a few seasons pass by, I take them off and hope they either forgot about me or they actually aren't being jerks anymore. They never usually pick a fight or anything with me again.

    For some people though it's a lot more difficult. I often hear stories on how even when blacklisted, people keep noting and harassing the victim nonstop. It's sad how blacklist isn't even doing it's job.
    purpley
  • ForgetmenotForgetmenot
    Mabinogi Rep: 660
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    I support this. We definitely need a better blacklist system in place.
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,395
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    I don't use the current blacklist system because it's more beneficial for me to be able to see when and where the knuckleheads are behaving like knuckleheads.

    The only thing it's good for is making spam bots in towns disappear.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
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    The fact that no one in here suggested screenshotting your notes messages pm, etc. creating a folder of evidence against someone harassing you.
    Then sending that folder to nexon as proof that someone is harassing you which should be against ToS.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
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    Opal is right that everything should be documented with complete details including the names of the persons involved and other identifying info such as email or ip address if you can obtain it. I have done that in the past but unfortunately Nexon failed to act upon the 50 plus pages of data sent over to them about a certain individual and their friends acting hostile towards me and even spreading rumors about me to degrade me and defame me. It was all lies to benefit the bullies and further harass the victim. If the reports are not taken seriously and acted upon promptly the situation can escalate which it has done for me. Blacklist needs to be changed to prevent abusive people from contacting others in any way or form. Blacklist means you want no contact after all, but it fails to live up to that and allows for loopholes to bypass it basically making the blacklist useless. Blacklist needs to be changed to effectively cut all ties between the harassing party that the victims.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
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    Bumping this so it can hopefully be sent over to help improve the blacklisting system and make the game more enjoyable and safer for everyone. Not everyone you blacklist is someone to worry about contacting you again, but in cases of say exfriends or even exs in general you may not want to talk to them if they are on bad terms with you. There is a chance of meeting someone excessively rude that you may not want to deal with again such as bidding for items which are inflated far beyond reason (happened before so I do not which to bid/buy from person again). Another example thiese changes would benefit the community is by preventing scammers from contacting players to steal money/items from them. If you see someone you think is suspecious other than reporting blacklist should also prevent that person from communicating at all to avoid problems such as pms or notes to try and get money or items from people. Specifically the gold bots that offer nx for real money that have random names and seem to pop up freqantly which are really scammers to try and take money from people. I would rather have it so there is no way people like that can communicate with me in game after they have been blacklisted. Lets make the game safer and more enjoyable for everyone.
  • AnemkiAnemki
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,300
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    While I do agree with some of these points, some of them I can see would be too much work for the server, especially hiding the effects and sounds.

    I do find it annoying that blacklisted people can still note and Whisper you, however, the Chat settings in the game allow you to Blacklist their chat, this includes Whisper.
    The Option is found under Game > Chat > Blacklist setting. You simply add the person's IGN and click Add, then Okay.
    It is also very annoying that Blacklisted users add to your Friends List, especially bots. This gets tough when I want to add people and it's full!

    I do understand where you are coming from with the Block from PMs as well, and I did agree with it and like it at first. However, what if say you and this Blacklisted person share mutual friends. This also includes your Guild option, that is completely unfair. What ever disagreements you have with person A, if your guildmates or friends associate with person A, they should be able to. You as a guild leader or mate have no right to dictate who your friends can and cannot hang with...

    I do like the idea though, where not only does the person you blacklist turn invisible, but you ALSO turn invisible to them. To be honest, there has maybe been 2 people I've blacklisted but then I simply got over it. But at that point and time in my life, I felt uncomfortable with them being able to see me as well, so I'm okay with this.

    I feel it would still be alright to see puppets/hydra and things because you might need to see that stuff in your environment. The servers can only handle so much. Already, we can all agree the Mabinogi servers are not top notch at times, and it's tough. Having to deal with all the personal information that we have done for ourselves to blacklist someone as it IS, the server has to take that in account for us. But imagine how much work it would take to blacklist all of those effects and create that many specifications for 39589349 people we want to blacklist, that would be insane, and not just for you, but for anyone...

    To be honest, what this all boils down to though, is once you Blacklist someone, you want that to simply have you ignore the person completely. I do understand it's a pain that you can still receive notes from them, but you can easily DELETE them without even opening them. Because Hardmuscle is correct, it takes two. If you go and reply to someone harassing you, it's only going to fuel the fire and cause more issues, and once the two of you get into it, it goes on and on. I know the internet is a different environment than the real world when dealing with bullies... But we can't always just tell our guidance counselor when we're 25, or 30 years old to ask a kid in the hall to stop bullying us... We have to do it on our own. We can either make the peace or simply walk away, or in this case, log out...

    Mabinogi is a wonderful place and for the most part, I enjoy the community here. We all vary in ages, and in our more mature years, we understand that sometimes being the bigger, stronger individual means to walk away and move on with your life... As an adult it is our responsibility to let these things go, especially when dealing with minors or people who have a large age gap, as well. I also understand that people come to Mabinogi as a place away from life at times, to relax and enjoy yourself, but unfortunately once in a while, it's best to close the lid and walk outside, too. (:
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
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    Thanks for your comments here. I'll try to respond to what I can but I feel like it is unsafe for me to even post anymore without being attacked or reported for it.

    I will go check the settings and see if adding known people to that list helps end their harassing comments towards me (not sure if it will block notes though).

    Ive already thought of a different way to handle guild blacklisting situation so Ill go back and edit that part out. For mutual friend situation that kind of caused problems for me as a mutual friend was able to add a blacklisted person to a group chat where they said some pretty hurtful things before I repeatedly closed out of the window they kept trying to add me back in. At the time only thing I could do was go invis so the Pms stopped. I guess from that point on only thing I can do is be wary of group pms and close out any who involve people Ive blacklisted.

    That maybe true about the servers having more stress put on them by changing the way blacklist handles the display of users. I am not sure how to correct this but maybe it can be tested to see what works best? I know in my early years people would spam music at banquet so Id blacklist at least 5 people to reduce lag and overplay but later I would remove them after it ended. Maybe how option to temp block someone until you change areas or channels then have them come back or you can select to perma block which keeps name on there forever. Temp block could be for like spammers who generally arent seen again the next day for example. Not sure if spliting the list would help any.

    Ive been screenshoting all the notes and posts that have been harassing towards me along with a detailed record of who was involved ect. I dont know if deleting things really makes it stop, but I think its best people not contact me in the first place then there wouldnt be any problems. As they say let by gones be by gones so they leave me alone and I leave them alone. I walked away a year ago and unfortuantly certain folks refuse to do the same and walk in opposite direction from me which there is honestly nothing I can do about. Hope they take your advice about being bigger person and walking away meaning end all communications towards me (on forums, in game, pms, ect) but we will have to see if that happens.

    Age difference really has nothing to do with what is going on with me. Bullying can happen at any age and towards anyone. Ive known younger people that tend to participate in bullying more than adults from my personal experience - as peer pressure and the desire to fit in or be popular can drive them to do things. I was bulled all my life in school and just in general so I know how difficult it is to break free of those type of people. I know how difficult it is for them to end their bullying towards others as well sadly. As an adult who has been there and experienced this all before I just hope people take your advice and walk away instead of futher instigating things with me.

    Having a stronger blacklist here would be just one step towards the right direction to allow people to end communications completely with people who they do not want to be associated with for whatever reason. Will be updating the first post to exclude things about guild blacklist as that has already been addressed a different way.
  • AnemkiAnemki
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,300
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    I'm sure these ideas can be tested, but it has been mentioned in other threads that player suggestions do not always make it into the game as well, so that's a good idea to keep in mind.

    I'm not sure if a "temp block" would be a good idea.. That's again, also a lot of work when players are more than capable of removing people manually, such as bots. Personally, I just remove bots after a day or two. (:

    Actually, age does play a great role in this. I do understand where you are coming from completely, and I too have been bullied since I was 12 years old, and I am now 25. Sometimes those internal scars and words never go away so I can relate. However, the advice I was given was not just to whomever you are speaking about, but the advice is also directed to you yourself. I know you shouldn't need to uninstall, or stray from something you enjoy, but no matter how much people pester you, you need to continue doing what you are doing, and delete the notes, that's all you are really capable of doing if the blacklist function remains as is.

    Also, to people who deal with peer pressure, popularity and that drive for it, I understand that being well liked is a big deal to kids who are 17 or so, but what is important is WHAT YOU DO with that popularity- and not just getting to that state.

    But again, as an adult, I don't know how old you are, nor how old the person is bothering you. As an adult; it is your responsibility to let kids be kids, and continue to be that bigger person. An adult.
    Greta
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
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    Honestly I dont think any of my ideas will but I throw them out there for consideration anyways.

    The idea behind this is to make the game safer for people by having a better blacklist system in place to protect them from situation such as repeating notes from individuals whom they do not want to have contact with (for whatever reason). Im sure there are good people in the game who dont need to be blacklisted, but for the troublemakers and bots there should be something in place to make sure they are not able to contact the person by any means. So far the main problem I have is with notes which do not seem to be included with the blacklist system.

    People should be accountable for their actions no matter their age. Even kids can hold responsibility and blame for a situation happening. Take for an example if a kid sends me a threatening note they are still responsible for what is in that message. In a situation like that an adult should be there to intervene and tell them to stop, but that doesn't always happen. This is digressing into something completely else but Ill just say this blame comes from both sides and hostility needs to end on both sides as well. No matter the age of persons involved they need to be bigger person as you say and walk away (as stated before end all communications in game, on forums, through notes ect.) so that we can all go back to playing a game with our friends. I just wish blacklist was better so that I wouldnt be receiving notes ect from people I have blocked and by doing so clearly do not want to communicate with (again for whatever reason).

    I just want to enjoy this game with my friends and have the freedom to make new friends without hostility as I was able to about a year and a half ago and haven't been able to do since. As you say let kids be kids but those kids also need to let people of all ages be players and enjoy the game too.

    I want to keep this free of personal type stuff from now on so if you want you can pm me directly else lets try to focus on ideas to improve the blacklist system since that is the topic presented for discussion ^^ I modified the first post a bit asking for ideas how to improve the blacklist concerning group pms which a blacklisted person is involved and also deleted the part about guild block since it is no longer relevant.

  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    The only thing wrong with the current blacklist system is people can message you. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. -- People are overlooking a very basic fact of life, it takes more than one person to argue ... you can't do it alone. If you're not looking for trouble or literally trying to exacerbate a pre-existing issue, nothing else should be needed. -- It's not as though anyone is forcing you to play .. or preventing you from logging out. ~ -- my two cents

    Honestly, I'd be happy with this alone...

    Well, no, I take that back. I'd like a separate "spam" list too.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    Yeah, this update has been a long time coming, really. It always annoyed me that I can't see the person that I blacklist, but they can see me. There's also a potential issue that alternate sources for chat messages are still available for use to a blacklisted person, for instance guild chat (although blocking a guildie generally seems like a useless idea, I can see some guild, somewhere, someday keeping a person around despite another person not liking them. I've actually discovered that this is a thing by an accidental misclick while trading a guildie and still seeing his chat, so I know this used to be a thing at least). I think notes still work too.

    For ingame you may also want to consider a soft and a hard block. The former being able to still able to see the person and their effects, but no messages. Though initially having had this idea, while I was actually typing out I've come to wonder what benefits that would have. I'm not sure. Perhaps being able to percieve someone that is actively trying to troll you who has a friend who can still see you or something, then badmouthing behind your back without knowing. No idea.

    In any event, I approve of this suggestion. It is needed.
This discussion has been closed.