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So I have been visiting the wiki's information on life skills for crafting and such and the exp and grind of the life skills really astound me.
The success rates are all without any production buffs by the way.
For Blacksmithing Rank 1 the exp chart is:
Achieve a good result on forging armor gives 0.04 exp. (1200)
Successfully forge armor gives 0.05 exp. (400)
Achieve a good result forging a tool or a weapon gives 0.04 exp. (1200)
Successfully forge a tool or a weapon gives 0.05 exp. (400)
Just from that chart you can tell that the grind is broken considering that you have to gather the materials every time and the materials are not the easiest to make or gather and you only get rewarded with about 0.04 after all the grind. You are better off purchasing the materials or using skill training seals or waiting for exp events so you can train it easier. Even the success rates aren't even that good so after all the grind you could still fail.
Carpentry Rank 1 exp chart:
Successfully create Finest Firewood gives 0.05 exp. (600)
Successfully create Leather Long Bow gives 1.00 exp. (50)
Successfully create Crossbow gives 1.50 exp. (50)
Successfully create Fine Grade Bow gives 0.25 exp. (400)
Carpentry huh. Yeah I never want to touch this again. It's so damn grindy it literally hurts. You might be thinking "Oh wait but you only need to craft 50 leather long bows and 50 crossbows" and if you are let me explain. The materials success rate for the leather long bows are between 60% and 80% not bad right? But just remember those are just what it says because you can fail 8 times in a row with 80%. Hell even the damn fine leather can't be made its drop only or buy it from seal merchants. This is why I hate carpentry because the grind is just too much.
Cooking Rank 5 exp chart:
Steam a Dish gives 1.00 exp. (20)
Make a Pie gives 0.5 exp. (20)
Eat a pie gives 0.2 exp. (50)
Make Jam gives 0.2 exp. (50)
Cooking is something that I personally don't really care for because I haven't gotten to it YET. However do you guys realize something? Let me give you a hint, look at the rank of it that I am writing about. Yeah its rank 5 cap so you can't even get the master title. Not to mention, everything you make the production rate is based off of how well you did on adding the percentages. And noting that you have to buy each material for a dish and make it into another material at other points. And yes the percentages have be to near EXACT for the best production value. Did you know that Cooking was capped until rank 6 at G11? And then finally Culinary Artist came and in 2014 it was raised to Rank 5? And its been over 3 years and we still don't have rank 1? Thanks Nexon NA.
Handicraft Rank 1 exp chart:
Make a rank 2 or 1 item gives 0.10 exp. (600)
Make a rank 3 or lower item gives 0.08 exp. (800)
Fail at making a rank 2 or 1 item gives 0.08 exp. (300)
Fail at making a rank 3 or lower item gives 0.04 exp. (200)
So handicraft. Hmm interesting right? The fact that there is only 6 rank 1-2 items and 4 of them are weapons that are exceedingly hard to make and the 2 that aren't weapons have low material but low success rate also and you can't even make large nails. Hell most of these life skills rely off of other life skills to train up so you can't even train one at a time. For example Blacksmithing also requires refining. Handicraft requires carpentry and weaving. None of these are easy or fun to train.
Hillwen Engineering Rank 1 exp chart:
Hillwen synthesis success gives 0.005 exp. (6000)
Part crafting success gives 0.005 exp. (6000)
Weapon and Armor crafting success gives 0.005 exp. (4000)
Engineering tool crafting success gives 0.005 exp. (4000)
Engineering weapon crafting success gives 0.025 exp. (2000)
Just looking at the numbers hurt me. This is honestly one of my most disliked life skills but its usefulness at end game is astounding so lets keep that as a positive mind set right? No. It's really bad. The success rates normally actually hurt me for some of the weapons. Like the Celtic Dowra Ace? If I am not wrong (which roast me in the comments if i am) is around 30% success rate even with the high material cost. Most of the squires weapons can only be gotten from hillwen engineering if not all. So yeah the only reason i hate hillwen engineering is because 1 the success rate of the weapons and 2 the amount of times you have to do this crap. The material cost for this is extremely high if you don't do this yourself and you want to buy the mats like Blacksmithing.
Magic Craft Rank 1 exp chart:
Magic conversion success gives 0.005 exp. (6000)
Mana Bullet crafting success gives 0.005 exp. (6000)
Magic material crafting success gives 0.005 exp. (4000)
Magic accessory crafting success gives 0.008 exp. (2500)
Magic Weapon and Armor crafting success gives 0.04 exp. (1500)
God this is the life skill I hate the most. The success rates are horrible and even at 99% just like everything else on this you can still fail because nexon will not give us that extra 1%. For example just getting to rank A for me specifically took around a week and that was me doing it every day and night. The material cost for this is SO high. You might be thinking oh it's best if we just do the weapon and armor right? No. The cost for them is around the same you can sell it for depending on the roll which most of the time is not great. I have known someone to fail making caswyn armor at 99% for this and god I felt so bad for them because nexon makes this 99% and not 100% so there is always going to be doubt. There is no "I am sure that nothing will happen" because anything can happen. So please nexon help us out and decrease the amount of grinding to save our lives.
Tailoring Rank 1 exp chart:
Use the skill successfully gives 0.04 exp. (1500)
The result is a failure gives 0.01 exp. (4000)
The result is very bad gives 0.01 exp. (4000)
Clothes are finished gives 0.02 exp. (800)
Ah Tailoring. Bliss am I right? As usual as you guys have read from what I say, no. Making the clothes aren't that bad I guess? The success rate is okay its around 60% for each item if I remember correctly. Its the god damn failing. You need to fail at making clothes 4000 times sometimes less because its a bad failure. But its 4000 times... god I hate it. It took me 3 nights to get from r1 tailoring to master and god it was bad. Remind you I didn't do most of this with exp buff. So yeah that's tailoring.
Weaving Rank 1 exp chart:
Making Tough Thread (50% Success) gives 0.5 exp. (120)
Making Finest Fabric (10% Success) gives 0.02 exp. (700)
Making Finest Silk gives (10% Success) 0.1 exp. (400)
Making Finest Leather Strap (60% Success) gives 0.2 exp. (700)
Oh boy, weaving. This one can be a pain as if you want to do most of the life talents yourself you will NEED to rank this one. Weaving is needed for ranking Carpentry, and Blacksmithing, which are pretty big life skills. Weaving is not horrible to rank, but it's also not fun. If you don't have a doll bag that can pick up cobwebs, or a partner that can help you sheer sheep this skill will take you awhile, and trust me, it's really boring. Like, you will fall asleep while running around invading the spiders personal space type of boring. But lets talk about some of these ranks, at rank 8 weaving you can ONLY successfully make finest silk, which if you do not have any production buffs (such as production mastery, in a production party, or harvest song) you only have a 4% chance of even making one. And with no skill bonus you have to do that 100 times! That's actually crazy, like you crazy aunt Bertha crazy. It really isn't fun when this skill is pretty much needed at rank 1 to have a somewhat easier time for some life skills.
Put your thoughts and comments down below on how to rework life skills. I only wanted the experience to do them to be known because this has made me so depressed.
Comments
I can't count the number of times I've gone down to the mines to get her more materials. The scary thing is though is that it would of been even worse if I wasn't an elf who could hide through crowds and snuggle myself in a corner to get the majority of the materials. x_x
I'd love to have them reworked. Let's think about this: Mabi has gotten easier as we went along this path, but this is some of the hardest stuff in the game.
I can understand why it's hard, however,I think it should be readjusted..
When people feel like they need things like seals, training pots, tens of hours of farming, etc. to rank up a skill, that's a very serious problem that demonstrates how unrealistic some skills are to train for most players.
Also use exp bonuses, those will help you get Dan ranks much quicker.
( ∙_∙)
( ∙_∙)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Take a life time to master.
The actual action of gathering resources can be oddly soothing, though...particularly sheering sheep. Mining though...it's either be strong enough to run Bari solo, stay stuck on G1 for a while and keep abusing that black pass, get a stronger player to play bodyguard for you while you go mineral hunting in Bari, or endure the annoyingly aggressive ant lions in Iria's tunnels (They are such a pain in the butt! Especially when they respawn right on top of you and attack while you're right in the middle of digging! Makes you just wish for a giant can of Raid!).
However, I really hate how they have skill training requirements that give you just a fraction of an experience point. That's what makes things feel the worst, in my opinion. Not just for life skills, though, but for every skill in general. It's not too bad when its, like 0.50 or 0.25, but when you start getting things that give, like 0.04 and 0.002 experience points...it makes you wonder if the game's creators are just trolling you now.
you really only have to mine 1 stack of each ingot ... after that you just need holy water and arat crystals and you can use synthesis to dupe hundreds of them. Honestly I would have ripped my hair out if I had to actually mine and refine all my ingots for blacksmithing
Honestly its not even bad the only one you have to worry about is blacksmith.
Plus idk where you did you math from but i can get 94 % on leather long bow (58+15+18+5) and i didnt even use the monday bonus.
Sure life skill take time to level but that only if you want to torture yourself or don't even bother to boost your success rates through parties or monday's crafting or even harvest song.
B> more fragmentable crafted items
Not like you can really sell the literal armies worth of trash-stat equipment you end up crafting while training skills like MC and Engi.
He said in the beginning of the post all % is based on if you do not have a production bonus, which is no Monday bonus, no production mastery, no equip that helps your chances, and no harvest song. He is referring to if you have just that straight up rank of that skill and nothing else.
Blacksmithing
At 8x those requirements are only about 150, which is more than doable. You can easily use synthesis to have pretty much endless ingots, and tailoring is relatively easy to get the materials for as well, so the only real issue is leather. I personally hate having to gather fine/finest leather. Even with the ingredient hunting title getting high grade leather is abysmally low. I pick up any I see drop while missioning, but having to spam dungeons just for leather is honestly rough. If Nexon decided to up the drop rate when the ingredient hunting title is equipped, that'd solve a lot of that issue though.
Carpentry
I agree it's super grindy, but for the most part the items required to craft stuff is extremely easy to get. Just stock up on lumber axes, go to a homestead with a ring of 8 chopping blocks, use harvest song, and gather while watching TV or something. I easy gather over 100 firewood within a 10 minute span. The success rate is painful, but again that's what production parties are for, and most of the materials used are easy replaceable in the grand scheme of things. As mentioned above, leather is the only thing I would agree should be changed.
Cooking
Cooking is by far my favorite life skill. The ratios are extremely simple. Each button is 30% and the spaces between are 5% The button can be broken up further by comparing it to the letters in the middle. So if you have a dish that's 30%, 50%, and 20% you'd put the 30% one in first and fill it as far as the first button goes, then the 20% one would go to the middle D in the middle button, and the last half would be the 50% item. It's very easy to get a hang of it, and tasting helps reduce the shaking to just about 0, and tasting is super easy to rank by either going alongside milking and drinking the milk or drinking water or certain NPC foods if you don't want your character to gain weight.
And yes, everyone's aware it caps at 5. I completely agree they should give it the rest of the ranks, but even Korea has yet to do that. It's not NA's fault that we don't have it.
Handicraft
You're right in saying that handicraft relies on other life skills, and should probably largely be ranked later on as a result, but why shouldn't it incorporate other skills? It's nice to be able to take stuff from carpentry, tailoring, and blacksmithing and make more complicated items. And yes, I agree the items are pretty useless at this point, but even just at 8x you have to do less than 100 of the counts for r1, which is not bad at all. And nails can easily be gotten by hitting rocks in port Ceann. I get literally a few hundred within an hour.
Hillwen Engineering
The Celtic Dowra is 54% at r1 according to the wiki, and that's before the 15% bonus from production mastery and 5% from harvest song, so you're looking at 74% before a production party. Since each other r1 engineer gives 4%, you can get 98% with a party of 7. And again, it's tedious but extremely doable material wise, as you would be training with zeders so the rare celtic mats are irrelevant since you wouldn't want to craft them until at least getting the title, as you have a bonus for producing it with a better quality.
Magic Craft
Training-wise nothing that I can think of was below 95% success at r1, which becomes 99% with a harvest song. Everything that is required for crafting is actually very easy to get, it's possible to clear out a section of floor 2 and gather the herbs for hours, and the animal parts are just a cycle of killing bunnies and plants in floor 2 while you wait to meteor the sasquatches. Aside from a few days of dedicated gathering, there's nothing spectacular with the materials which is why I don't see the counts being too much.
Tailoring
The failing is extremely easy. If the rank of the manual is seen as too easy, it'll count as a fail. So just make hundreds of wizard hats or whichever rF item uses a material you have an excess of. Aside from that, it's just using raw material as mentioned below to craft the items.
Weaving
I honestly don't get why no one enjoys weaving. It's a very zen process for me. Especially with hide, enthralling, and kristell dolls, getting cobwebs is extremely easy. Even wool isn't bad. I recommend getting a normal sheep pet, as the cloud sheep only have 200 gathers a day. You could always gather from someone else's sheep too. I've also had friends ask if they could have the first gather of the day for the cloud sheep, which is a guaranteed huge lucky bonus, and since people rarely use it themselves they're likely to be happy to help if asked. You can also use someone else's normal sheep, just have a friend afk in the hot springs and gather to your hearts content. Again, the only issue is the leather. You can also fragment the silks and fabrics to get the raw materials to try again. And honestly if someone's trying to craft without r1 production mastery they deserve to have a hard time. Just make tons of paper cranes or gather materials for all these tedious life skills. r1 production mastery can easily be done within a day even without bonuses. And if you don't have r1 harvest song then just ask a friend, but it's easy enough to get and train that not having them shouldn't really be a consideration.
Life skills really aren't bad when broken down like this and don't deserve to be made easier by any standards. Most skills are a joke, I literally got over 80 combat skills from rC or worse to r1 within a few weeks time. Life skills there's at least still some effort required to do them. And needless to say having friends helps, be it for the production bonuses or if they're kind enough to help gather. But yeah, life skills are honestly not for everyone, but they are definitely worth the effort.
"Because I want everyone to suffer like I did before AP Training, Seals, and Training pots existed."
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is the only reason I can think of.
This is all just mindless complaining over some that can easily be done with in a single day.
Honestly getting Materials isn't all that hard either. 18 seals for 10 fine leather? Thats two per character per day.
2x7=14 14x10 = 140. (or just substitute for how many characters on your account.)
Thats 140 Leathers everyday. Do that for a week and you get 980 leather.
throw on 4-8x exp training and you should have more than enough to rank any life skill.
If you want to complain about training requirements one some thing go make a thread about Sakura abyss.
Cause that takes like 8 hours at 6-8x training exp. for a SINGLE rank.
But yeah keep complaining just because you failed to craft something because of RNG.
If anything they should just make all the old gacha patterns available to us already but thats never gonna happen.