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Dan tests are unbalanced and unfair

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  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Sherri wrote: »
    OKAY. SO. My friend and I went after Water Cannon Dan 2 and my friend went after Smash Dan, I believe 3?
    We both passed. However, when we went to talk to the Advancement Guide, we can't 'Advance the skill'.
    It counted as us passing but it won't let us rank them up! So we both wasted a day!
    WHAT GIVES?

    You need to complete the test multiple times (and a few times with S or SS ranks depending on the exam level) before you can rank the skill again. For Dan 1 to 2 you need to complete the test two times and get an S grade at least twice, and Dan 2 to 3 requires two test completions, two S ranks, and two SS ranks. From what I've heard, for the Dan 2->3 test you can fill out the S rank line if you get an SS test (getting an SS rank fills both those counts), so you need to pass at least two exams for each rank you do. You can check your progress by clicking the skill's name in the skill list.
  • SherriSherri
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    Sherri wrote: »
    OKAY. SO. My friend and I went after Water Cannon Dan 2 and my friend went after Smash Dan, I believe 3?
    We both passed. However, when we went to talk to the Advancement Guide, we can't 'Advance the skill'.
    It counted as us passing but it won't let us rank them up! So we both wasted a day!
    WHAT GIVES?

    You need to complete the test multiple times (and a few times with S or SS ranks depending on the exam level) before you can rank the skill again. For Dan 1 to 2 you need to complete the test two times and get an S grade at least twice, and Dan 2 to 3 requires two test completions, two S ranks, and two SS ranks. From what I've heard, for the Dan 2->3 test you can fill out the S rank line if you get an SS test (getting an SS rank fills both those counts), so you need to pass at least two exams for each rank you do. You can check your progress by clicking the skill's name in the skill list.

    *many words considered foul by the general public*
    That's dumb.
  • Grimreaper97Grimreaper97
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    I can understand where he is coming from. I tried to get Dan 2 for Shuriken Charge and it is pretty much impossible. I understand that if you fully charge SC you get a splash damage area from where it hit but most of the time the enemies have too high of HP and it won't entirely kill them. I gave it a good amount of tries but then I gave up. So for all the people saying get good or redo your strat it doesn't work like that. Some of the dan tests are unbalanced and do need a little tweaking regardless of what it may be.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Sherri wrote: »
    *many words considered foul by the general public*
    That's dumb.

    And that's the dilemma many are saying is unfair. It is dumb to have a "pass" not grant any advancement EXP and effectively waste your test for the day.
  • JoejonasJoejonas
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    edited August 29, 2017
    Omg I'm so late but I completely agree with this stuff sooooooOooOoo much it's not the test itself that's a problem it just needs to be rebalanced for our ping with the point system tbh I've been trying to do firebolt dan 3 for so long and I LITERALLY cannot pass 9k no matter how much I try due to how slow my firebolt loads with the animation and everything ??? Same with shuriken charge since we don't have the ninja update AND the fact elves have trouble getting dan 3 magnum, with human cooldown it's stupid hard to actually get ss especially if you miss even once but idk watching kr dan videos they sped through firebolt like it was nothing :(
  • PanPan
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    xd
  • FeliceFelice
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    Sherri wrote: »
    OKAY. SO. My friend and I went after Water Cannon Dan 2 and my friend went after Smash Dan, I believe 3?
    We both passed. However, when we went to talk to the Advancement Guide, we can't 'Advance the skill'.
    It counted as us passing but it won't let us rank them up! So we both wasted a day!
    WHAT GIVES?

    It takes a minimum of 2 days under the current system to pass Dan 2 and Dan 3

    Dan 1: Receive a Passing Grade.

    Dan 2: Receive a Passing Grade x2
    Receive Grade S or Higher x2

    Dan 3: Receive a Passing Grade x2
    Receive Grade S or Higher x2
    Receive Grade SS or Higher x2

    So, with that said, Unless you get an S rank on a Dan 2 Test, you will take 3+ days. Unless you get SS Rank on a Dan 3 Test, you will take 4+ days. I still say this is a much better trade-off when compared to the old system when you could only take the test once every 5 days, you HAD to be in a party of other people taking the test, and even then, only half of the participating party would pass based on who had higher scores.
  • HarukariHarukari
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    I can understand where he is coming from. I tried to get Dan 2 for Shuriken Charge and it is pretty much impossible. I understand that if you fully charge SC you get a splash damage area from where it hit but most of the time the enemies have too high of HP and it won't entirely kill them. I gave it a good amount of tries but then I gave up. So for all the people saying get good or redo your strat it doesn't work like that. Some of the dan tests are unbalanced and do need a little tweaking regardless of what it may be.

    It's not impossible. I've seen someone on Ruairi with the new ninja idle meaning they got shuriken charge to dan 3.
    I think it just strongly relies on critical hits.
  • MarithMarith
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    Felice wrote: »
    It takes a minimum of 2 days under the current system to pass Dan 2 and Dan 3

    Dan 1: Receive a Passing Grade.

    Dan 2: Receive a Passing Grade x2
    Receive Grade S or Higher x2

    Dan 3: Receive a Passing Grade x2
    Receive Grade S or Higher x2
    Receive Grade SS or Higher x2

    So, with that said, Unless you get an S rank on a Dan 2 Test, you will take 3+ days. Unless you get SS Rank on a Dan 3 Test, you will take 4+ days. I still say this is a much better trade-off when compared to the old system when you could only take the test once every 5 days, you HAD to be in a party of other people taking the test, and even then, only half of the participating party would pass based on who had higher scores.


    Except on the dan 1>2 test, unless you pass with an S rank score twice, you cannot advance. It doesn't matter how many times you pass with A. That's the glaring issue with the design.
  • FeliceFelice
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    edited August 30, 2017
    Marith wrote: »
    Except on the dan 1>2 test, unless you pass with an S rank score twice, you cannot advance. It doesn't matter how many times you pass with A. That's the glaring issue with the design.

    Yes, I even said as such. It is also impossible to get Dan 3 without SS Rank as a passing grade. It makes sense that a higher grade is required with each successive rank. otherwise they would have some setup along the lines of:

    Dan 1: Receive a Passing Grade x2

    Dan 2: Receive a Passing Grade x5

    Dan 3: Receive a Passing Grade x10

    I think the current system is fair enough, as if you know what you are doing, you can go from no Dan Rank to Dan 3 in 5 days. A vast improvement over the old system.
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    edited August 30, 2017
    I'd rather it be hard than it being easy. When you actually do get dan3 there's actually a sense of accomplishment.
    Also since it's so hard people actually have to look to the community for help, ppl share tips etc, and there's generally more activity

    Like for the gm update, nobody really talked about it since it was just so easy, it's just collecting seals and waiting.
    SherriPanyessiree
  • KokoroKokoro
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    Felice wrote: »

    I think the current system is fair enough, as if you know what you are doing, you can go from no Dan Rank to Dan 3 in 5 days. A vast improvement over the old system.

    I believe the main argument is that, for some of the tests, even if you know what you are doing, you are unable to pass the tests with a high rank due to mainly lag or critical hit chance.

    For example the bolt magics require you to shoot bolts as quickly and as often as possible to score points. Due to latency, we can't charge the bolts quickly enough even if we are managing aggro well and otherwise doing everything correctly.

    I did really want to get the puppet enchant and idle pose but I don't think I can get the necessary 12,000 points for SS in Rising Action just because there's a short delay in me pressing the hotkey and when the skill activates.
  • SyaoSyao
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    The test for firebolt dan 3 has a third wave with THREE giant sprites that aggro you all at once from across the room(on top of the regular sprites aggroing you.) Even if you are smart enough to summon the ice sprites for that test, you'll have to be very lucky to not get instantly aggroed by all of those sprites and be trapped with ice spear and icebolt spam.

    For firebolt you need to utilize extreme luck and everything you have.

    Whereas for the smash test dan 3, my total level 500 alt can get 13k pts with a whole minute to spare. Talk about balanced.
    Sherri
  • MeliMeli
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    edited September 1, 2017
    yes
  • PanPan
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    People used to go all out creating guides on the forums. Nowadays it's all lame and boring. Just tons of bitching.
    GretaFelice
  • SyaoSyao
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    Pan wrote: »
    People used to go all out creating guides on the forums. Nowadays it's all lame and boring. Just tons of bitching.

    Yeah I'm bitching about how i won't know if my firebolt damage earned me enough bonus points to pass the test until I actually finish the test. Would be nice to know ahead of time so that I can leave before I waste another day getting S rank when I need SS rank to get dan 3 firebolt. I already know how to pass with SS rank for firebolt (I just need one more SS rank pass to get dan 3) but i keep failing with 11.5k points because the bonus points range from 1-2k. 4 combo card seals is nothing when you can just do advancement tests on your alts.
  • yessireeyessiree
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    Dan tests are not meant to be "balanced". It is intended to act as a filter, and maybe, the filter is working as intended.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    I seriously don't mind the difficulty with the tests. Once you learn how to get through them, you can do it. MY issue with this system is that if you pass a test with a low grade you cannot even attempt or practice another exam for an entire day. "Learning" how to pass the tests should be a trial and error process, but extending it out like this is lazy and stupid.

    "BUT YOU CAN JUST LEAVE THE EXAM BEFORE THE TIME LIM--" stop that. In the past three days I've had convenient lag spikes occur before the time expired that prevented me from leaving in a timely fashion. I shouldn't have to leave the mission with a low grade or face sitting around for a day because I "failed" to pass my exam with high marks. Make those fails actual fails and let me re-enter with another entrance fee.
    Sherri
  • yessireeyessiree
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    Oh woe is me! For my progress has been set back for one whole day!

    It almost feels like shortening the timespan to obtain dan 3 from a matter of months to a matter of days is a mistake or something.
    Felice
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    yessiree wrote: »
    Oh woe is me! For my progress has been set back for one whole day!

    It almost feels like shortening the timespan to obtain dan 3 from a matter of months to a matter of days is a mistake or something.

    Old system: go in with three friends, and at least one of you gets progress with a passing score! Plus there are no hidden score mechnics aside all clears!
    New system: go in solo, pass with a low score and too bad. Oh you want entirely clear and up front scoring mechanics? I'm sorry.

    You have to learn how to pass these things with the high scores you need. Learning isn't accomplished in a 5 minute session done once every 24 hours. And I KNOW how the old system worked (Dan 3'd both the life skills and most of the combat tab stuff on it) and I'm not saying this isn't an improvement from that. What I'm saying is we don't have the individual experimentation time needed to figure out all of these stupid hidden score mechanics in some of the exams (Healing being one of them).
    Sherri
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