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Fix Events! (Less AFK events)

MenuodenMenuoden
Mabinogi Rep: 695
Posts: 18
Member
edited September 11, 2017 in Feedback and Suggestions
Summary for people who lack the insight to understand why the full package reading is important: AFK events are abominations that wear down the game and only encourage more Gold-Farmer/Exploiter mentality players to log on 15 accounts, AFK, win everything repeatedly, destroy the value of items relevant to said event, then waste the time of devoted players because they'd of had the SAME OUTCOME if they'd just had AFK'd or played. This i
Hisame621

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  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Summary for people who lack the insight to understand why the full package reading is important: AFK events are abominations that wear down the game and only encourage more Gold-Farmer/Exploiter mentality players to log on 15 accounts, AFK, win everything repeatedly, destroy the value of items relevant to said event, then waste the time of devoted players because they'd of had the SAME OUTCOME if they'd just had AFK'd or played. This is a bad event model. STOP. USING. IT. EXCLUSIVELY. This model should NEVER be used as the sole basis of 'how to get said event item'.

    Let's first address player types before I get into the meat of this we have Casuals (2-4 days played a week), Regulars (5+ days played a week), Extreme Casuals (Less than 4x a month.), Merchant Alts (AFK to keep stores open, ignore them), Exploiters/Gold Farmers (Read above, this model of player should be banned and frankly they're cancer in a otherwise very very promising MMO).

    THE AFKING ISSUE
    Q.) Why cancel the AFK-Event Model?
    A.) Simple, the risk/reward to this... doesn't exist. There's no alternate sources, the model rewards round-about-dubious means. This means no amount of player skill in playing legit (1 player, 1 character, playing the game) will award you more, no. The reward comes in how much you want to abuse/exploit the intended play style and how many computers you own, or just how crazy strong your fewer PCs are.

    Q.) Is there a GOOD application for the AFK rewarding?
    A.) Certainly, no idea is a bad idea, it's all about how you work it into the system and how it's balanced, even ridiculous things can be beneficial. (Look at 2D link walking on walls) However, if a person is to have a model where CCing/Relogging resets your timer, AFKing instantly becomes preferable (Channel locked). If this is already preferable then it becomes that much more 'salt in the wound' for a true player that these gold-farmer mentality types are getting Twice, Thrice, Or even x20 the reward we are each reward phase. That said, it should never be the sole method of acquisition.

    Q.) Why are AFK-Exclusive events on the whole bad? Isn't it just more rewards for more people with the means?
    A.) Try finding a dungeon IG just wandering around some time, you'll be met by a veritable wasteland of players who never respond, never notice your efforts to communicate, never adventure with you. A huge appeal of mabinogi is it's a low-resource MMO so many people are able to play it that may not be able to play more modern games; that means our niche is wider thanks to that. If you have people seeming like statues and silent non-entities then the game will feel dead and lonely, as if you turned on a single player where the other "Party Member Viables" are lifeless and idle. Other events encourage more team work, playing, and general fun -- these draw in larger numbers which means lag for us real players.

    THE NEVER WIN ISSUE
    - Many existing events, this bingo roulette one in particular suffer from a disease many online games suffer where their RNG is infact, not at all like real life chance. Rather than a 1/6 chance to roll a 6 on a six sided die, on mabinogi it's more akin to a 1/42, and the game even goes out of it's way to help you fail, it wants you grinding. This means...

    - You may not ever actually achieve your event goal, or it may take obscene measures (300+ bingo coins) to fill a board ONCE. But it's not just bad because of the unpredictable RNG...

    - You may get 'numbers' you've drawn before... FOREVER. This exists in a lot of the events in a lot of varied ways, for many events it's just repeatedly getting HP Potion 30's or equal item almost every draw, versus say... Bingo removing 9's after you get 9 until the next card, Box-events refusing 'repeat rewards' within the next 5 draws (If you get a HP 30, you cant for 4-5 more boxes, inverse same would be true of wings/rares back to back being gone).

    - As covered extensively above, if someones AFKing and getting a total of even 5:1 coin ratio to you, they're still winning 5x as much, for 0 effort or reason aside from reasons FEW other game-devs would consider acceptable. (Most games call what they do 'Botting'.)

    - This event is SO rigged to AFKers, SO rigged in terms of the "Lets give you the same # again!" and SO hopeless feeling, I logged out to play Pacman 256 after the 15th hour of trying to get TWO numbers, when I had already acquired every possible number on the list, 'except them'. Does this sound like a review that encourages more of these? P.S - Pacman 256 causes me high blood pressure, so you REALLY need to evaluate your event model if im choosing that.

    THE ALTERNATIVES
    - Events that require activity, even mini-games, Fate board game, protect dunbarton, Unique Shadow mission spams, the SAO tower event, etc.. etc... *even the old amazing race*, all encouraged rewards based on effort and 'PLAYING'.

    - Events that encourage playing make the game more alive, encourage team work, and encourage a more vibrant community, AFKing alone will 'NEVER' do this.

    - Events that encourage playing discourage Gold-Farmer mentality sorts, since the AI for the Bots often times isn't quite up to snuff, and there should STILL be a gachapon rewarding system for ban-reporting these cysts.
    MirokujinkapapaPikangie
  • SizeplaySizeplay
    Mabinogi Rep: 710
    Posts: 20
    Member
    Menuoden wrote: »
    Summary for people who lack the insight to understand why the full package reading is important: AFK events are abominations that wear down the game and only encourage more Gold-Farmer/Exploiter mentality players to log on 15 accounts, AFK, win everything repeatedly, destroy the value of items relevant to said event, then waste the time of devoted players because they'd of had the SAME OUTCOME if they'd just had AFK'd or played. This i

    I mean, unless people have over 3 to 4 computers, I doubt they would Afk in 15 accounts = 15 hours with the new event, I can barely do this event in 3 accounts even though I have pretty much nothing to do.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited September 11, 2017
    We just had a summer of non-AFK events. So no, AFK events don't need to be fixed. Also you didnt even finish your own post, you're not even serious about your own 'suggestion'.
    GretaPeloi
  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We just had a summer of non-AFK events. So no, AFK events don't need to be fixed. Also you didnt even finish your own post, you're not even serious about your own 'suggestion'.

    Scroll down. It's unfortunate someone has to do figuring out forum issues with you, but we can hope 'one day' you'll be on the train with the rest of us. Please finish your thoughts on the full thing after you've read it.

    - Thanks.
    IyasenuYangKoete
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,175
    Posts: 266
    Member
    I honestly play mostly when the events are proper, such as Cookie Island was.

    That was the most fun I had during Mabinogi so far, and I really hope we get something like that again.

    I still want to have an MP3 or something of the Waffle Witch's dungeon. ^_^'
  • NinzerkerNinzerker
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 70
    Member
    Another issue is connectivity issues
    For example: with this current Bingo Roulette event

    If you disconnect anywhere within the 30 minute period the timer completely resets (Making it 30 minutes cumulative to get a coin would fix this)

    Dunno bout you but I tend to disconnect just about every fifteen minutes or so, and from 6pm to 1am server time I'm unable to even log in at all!

    Then paired with the "Roulette" part when I AM finally able to log in and get the +5 coin every day... And I'm still on my first bingo card with only 13/25 spaces filled! (Why Bingo Ball rollers are used in real life to prevent this very thing from happening!)

    And that's playing around 6 hours five days a week!


    As for AFK events as a whole, if they were to implement two set tiers of prizes it would fix a little bit as well

    >Basic event for all players
    >Intermediate Bonus Prizes at 1000 total level
    >Advanced Bonus Prizes at 4000+ total level

    This way it strongly encourages not to use Alts and other characters by locking an entire selection away, or at the very least a new having the new accounts ans alts actually participating in the game

  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Very nice insights Nin! When I used to live in arcadia FL in real life it was the real sticks if y'know what I mean, I got used to actually playing 'well' on a steady 385-500 ping (It's possible with timed games like mabinogi if you're a tank, you just get used to some abominable timing. Note: 2 mbs 'was' the best connection out there rofl)

    But by and large most games (really none) factor for situations where a devoted player might really be stuck without an answer due to lag, connectivity, and other such issues; but the latter part is more interesting; it'd penalize really new players, but at the same time it would definitely help curb the bot issue we often see the staff having to wrestle with.
  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    But that still leads to very real and very tangible imbalances Hard, and you damn well know it.

    Hardmuscle you act like multi-boxing is a minor problem but it isn't, and there's creative and very real ways like I mentioned to curb it -- bots only get so intelligent, so you just have to out-wit their means of operation. It really isn't that difficult. For example, set event random gen dungeons/areas pretty much guarantee the clunky AI's won't be spamming it too efficiently on their own, tougher than "Boss to you" (AKA raccoons/foxes) required foes (Maybe even event only ones) more ensure that they're not standing around a field en-masse just clobbering things for eventual victory.

    I even knew a player on Ruairi that'd use two on each of his kids' computers, three on his, two on his wifes' to get things from AFK events, even the average player of a mmo if it's the only one they play can be pretty under-handed in terms of "Lengths they go". All it takes is an event having "1" item worth over 5m, if they multiply themselves effectively by 8 and it's an AFK event, they just tremendously improved their chances if AFKing is 'the way to go', versus having multiple venues.

    The driving point of this post is simply that AFK focused events are bad for us, it's bad for the games' economy, it's bad for the games' image (AFK people abound), it's bad for the games' community (Again, AFK ghost people abound, versus speaking/living people),

    and if you need more evidence on issues with AFK events, that's literally the problems with just the TEMPLATE/CONCEPT itself, that's not addressing the fact with Bingo I regularly with 15+ coins get 3, 3, 3, 16, 17, 16, 3, 19, 21, 5, 2, 16, etc.. etc... And do you know the only number i've NEVER Gotten on the list yet? 1. Yes. Literally just 1. The RNG has some hang up some where to even seek to avoid what you need. So im essentially punished for NOT afking enough to fulfill the games' sick twisted skinners' box demands. And again, thats 'one' AFK event, each one often has an issue or the other with them that extends beyond the template and doesn't even touch on the fact it's still just an AFKing event that rewards strictly for *DOING NOTHING*.

    - Playing more of the real game at events like this won't push you forward, no. So if we all assume all of us compose this game, players and staff. We're essentially condoning and encouraging the multi-clienting and botting because at this point, there's literally no other way to hasten the Bingo-Similar systems, AFKing is the only answer.

    - SO... Don't bother really playing. You can't change channels, you can't log out, you can't provoke lag that might DC you, and even something you might think is small could reasonably provoke the timer to reset. (Such as using the housing board, while bored and trapped on one channel all day.)

    - Intelligent conversation also doesn't yield more results, so I suppose even talking in the game is out of the question and off the table with this model too, since obviously most players aren't exactly socialites (beyond the fashion) and they're AFK too anyway. At t his third bullet we're already AFK in town, doing nothing, since that pretty much ensures the most yield from the event, and we're using less PC resources to open more clients. Great. So now the staff get to stroke their egos' "Pretending" in the terms of numbers that the game is doing better than ever while in reality the game is suffering tremendously for the choice of event/application because all the numbers are nothing but a lie. And at the end of the day how did this 'really' help the players and game in the long run? Events are meant to spurn numbers and make the game more lively, yeah -- but this is absolutely the wrong idea entirely <.<

    If the game needs lots more numbers a few more cross-overs with trending games or anime is the way for Mabinogi to do it and it almost always gets great results from that -- it should stick to what it's unique for and able to do that other MMOs can't do, not let people who don't really care about the game rattle the staff into thinking these events are a healthy model for their game or for their players to be participating in. Start offering facebook/twitter/etc.. . ad recruitment if it's needed, give training speed boosts to people who actively keep banners (With results) up, encourage weekly streaming by the players to increase the amount of visibility the game has to the world -- we're retro to the world of gaming so in that regard we have to remind them it's about the stellar gameplay as well as the amazing things the game has to offer -- not AFK events and 'ease of play'.



  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    No multi-boxing is the same as multi-clienting. Using multiple PCs is a different thing altogether Hard, no ones' trying to get families off the game. Don't twist other peoples words.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    Using multi client is not the same as using two computers at all. Multi-client changes the coding and alternates it to allow more than one mabi open on the same machine. Where as multi-computering is just running Mabi on two different computers. In this day and age most adults have two computers. One for school and one for anything else or what have you. I have two computers, one that is 7 years old and one that is over a year old. I brought both of them with my own money that I worked hard for. Nexon does not allow people to multi-client the game is it breaks the TOS on alternating the code. Were as Using two computers is not changing the code at all. Multi-computing is not a problem at all in this game because it comes down to, How does one know that someone is using two computers? That could very well be two siblings playing at once or two friends playing at once. Unless someone is stupid enough to name their characters all the same or stuff like "dogalt1 dogalt2 dogalt3" and have them all logged in at the same time and at the same location, but in that case, that person is more likley multiclienting.
    [Deleted User]Leinei
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    Menuoden wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    We just had a summer of non-AFK events. So no, AFK events don't need to be fixed. Also you didnt even finish your own post, you're not even serious about your own 'suggestion'.

    Scroll down. It's unfortunate someone has to do figuring out forum issues with you, but we can hope 'one day' you'll be on the train with the rest of us. Please finish your thoughts on the full thing after you've read it.

    - Thanks.

    People only have issues with me because I don't give a care about making the game easier for people, or agreeing with every single little thing that someone throws to the forums. Half of the suggestions people make are to get the game to become super easy or are just flat out dumb. (I'm not calling your idea dumb). I don't need to be 'on bored' with a few people. That being said, events don't need to be fixed. As I said up above, we just had a summer of non-AFK events. I could understand if this was June 2018 and we only had AFK events the whole year, then yes, I would agree, but after 2-3months of constant non-afk events, it is nice to just sit down and have some AFK events. Halloween, thanksgiving and Christmas are coming, we always have events around that time that are not AFK.
    [Deleted User]GretaLeineiSurreptitiously
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,175
    Posts: 266
    Member
    I'd honestly prefer having an AFK event that's small accompany a larger, non-afk event in all honesty.

    Iyasenu[Deleted User]Leinei
  • SurreptitiouslySurreptitiously
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,560
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited September 19, 2017
    Menuoden wrote: »
    Summary for people who lack the insight to understand why the full package reading is important: AFK events are abominations that wear down the game and only encourage more Gold-Farmer/Exploiter mentality players to log on 15 accounts, AFK, win everything repeatedly, destroy the value of items relevant to said event, then waste the time of devoted players because they'd of had the SAME OUTCOME if they'd just had AFK'd or played. This is a bad event model. STOP. USING. IT. EXCLUSIVELY. This model should NEVER be used as the sole basis of 'how to get said event item'.
    I see that you are either missing information, uninformed, ignorant, living in the past, or just not up to speed, combination of any of them included.

    Firstly there have been changes to reoccuring events that have changed them into less exploitable versions. For instance the current one, with very good rewards might I add, used to be farmable heavily. I actually have an alt that has low CP, a marble brig, r1 icebolt, and a beginner chaincast ice wand just to sit by raccoons to farm one of the previous iterations of the event. Its a feature pls no ban. Regardless, its impossible to put all your effort into pre-emptively trying to make sure nobody will exploit anything by any means they can. You're just going to waste a lot of resources, especially if you don't have that many to invest in the first place, just to hit the same end result. Learning from past actions is a much better investment and its not going to kill anybody.

    Secondly, if we were using it exclusively, I'd have to request a test from your doctor for Alzheimer's. We quite literally had Capture the Watermelon and Mission Point Event. One of my main issues that I'm thankful for in the change is that we don't have constant working events as we did years past. This burns out people far too much.
    Menuoden wrote: »

    Let's first address player types before I get into the meat of this we have Casuals (2-4 days played a week), Regulars (5+ days played a week), Extreme Casuals (Less than 4x a month.), Merchant Alts (AFK to keep stores open, ignore them), Exploiters/Gold Farmers (Read above, this model of player should be banned and frankly they're cancer in a otherwise very very promising MMO).

    THE AFKING ISSUE
    Q.) Why cancel the AFK-Event Model?
    A.) Simple, the risk/reward to this... doesn't exist. There's no alternate sources, the model rewards round-about-dubious means. This means no amount of player skill in playing legit (1 player, 1 character, playing the game) will award you more, no. The reward comes in how much you want to abuse/exploit the intended play style and how many computers you own, or just how crazy strong your fewer PCs are.
    While I'm big on giving everybody the same thing, there have been many issues in the past. One of them is with the hot time events. They used to be you HAD to be online at a certain time to get the item. If you weren't, Well you were out of luck. The only possible way to abuse this other than obviously having multiple accounts online via any numerous dubious and flat out illegal methods was an error within the server (the two channel clusters ages back used to eventually become desynced. Ch1-3 would be ahead/behind of Ch4-7. You could actually change channels to the one behind and get twice the items. Safe to say this happened only once or twice.)

    So, now the hot times are a large span of time (normally a weekend or a day) so anybody who can't really let their PC sit while they're at work can get the item. Sure people who have a bunch of accounts can farm all they want, but nobody is going to go away without something.
    Menuoden wrote: »

    Q.) Is there a GOOD application for the AFK rewarding?
    A.) Certainly, no idea is a bad idea, it's all about how you work it into the system and how it's balanced, even ridiculous things can be beneficial. (Look at 2D link walking on walls) However, if a person is to have a model where CCing/Relogging resets your timer, AFKing instantly becomes preferable (Channel locked). If this is already preferable then it becomes that much more 'salt in the wound' for a true player that these gold-farmer mentality types are getting Twice, Thrice, Or even x20 the reward we are each reward phase. That said, it should never be the sole method of acquisition.
    I will say that sticking onto a single channel is a downside to it. However if it was fixable, chances are it would have been a while ago. People who run shops or advertising signs are no stranger to having to sit on one channel however. This is a tough point to actually fix or contest in all honesty.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    Q.) Why are AFK-Exclusive events on the whole bad? Isn't it just more rewards for more people with the means?
    A.) Try finding a dungeon IG just wandering around some time, you'll be met by a veritable wasteland of players who never respond, never notice your efforts to communicate, never adventure with you. A huge appeal of mabinogi is it's a low-resource MMO so many people are able to play it that may not be able to play more modern games; that means our niche is wider thanks to that. If you have people seeming like statues and silent non-entities then the game will feel dead and lonely, as if you turned on a single player where the other "Party Member Viables" are lifeless and idle. Other events encourage more team work, playing, and general fun -- these draw in larger numbers which means lag for us real players.
    Even when there aren't AFK events the game feels more empty than Fallout. This is coming from someone on mari, the literal afk with your fashion out server.

    Also, our niche is nothing. The playerbase for this game is cultist level. A lot of veterans who are invested, find no interest in other games, and haven't left for various reasons relating to friends, content, hope, and others. Bringing new players into a game that requires a decent amount of time investment, graphics that while are still good have many issues that haven't been fixed, content scaling that disregards older items in favor of new ones, so on and so forth. The only niche mabi has is that the combat system isn't generic horsedung and it has a different style than most games coming out now that aren't straight out "its an anime-like game xDDDD".
    Menuoden wrote: »
    THE NEVER WIN ISSUE
    - Many existing events, this bingo roulette one in particular suffer from a disease many online games suffer where their RNG is infact, not at all like real life chance. Rather than a 1/6 chance to roll a 6 on a six sided die, on mabinogi it's more akin to a 1/42, and the game even goes out of it's way to help you fail, it wants you grinding. This means...

    - You may not ever actually achieve your event goal, or it may take obscene measures (300+ bingo coins) to fill a board ONCE. But it's not just bad because of the unpredictable RNG...

    - You may get 'numbers' you've drawn before... FOREVER. This exists in a lot of the events in a lot of varied ways, for many events it's just repeatedly getting HP Potion 30's or equal item almost every draw, versus say... Bingo removing 9's after you get 9 until the next card, Box-events refusing 'repeat rewards' within the next 5 draws (If you get a HP 30, you cant for 4-5 more boxes, inverse same would be true of wings/rares back to back being gone).

    - As covered extensively above, if someones AFKing and getting a total of even 5:1 coin ratio to you, they're still winning 5x as much, for 0 effort or reason aside from reasons FEW other game-devs would consider acceptable. (Most games call what they do 'Botting'.)

    - This event is SO rigged to AFKers, SO rigged in terms of the "Lets give you the same # again!" and SO hopeless feeling, I logged out to play Pacman 256 after the 15th hour of trying to get TWO numbers, when I had already acquired every possible number on the list, 'except them'. Does this sound like a review that encourages more of these? P.S - Pacman 256 causes me high blood pressure, so you REALLY need to evaluate your event model if im choosing that.
    Nexon RNG is based so you never win. Also the way the bingo is coded is made to make players rip their hair out. It doesn't roll 1-5 and spin it 360 degrees before a separate calc for where it lands, it just rolls 1-25 and psuedo-spins. And again, the rewards for the bingo are actually fairly decent, but if they were given coin-hunting from previous bingos, without pots to pretty much water it down to nothing it'd be oh-so-exploitable to folks who like grinding to hell and back for these things.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    THE ALTERNATIVES
    - Events that require activity, even mini-games, Fate board game, protect dunbarton, Unique Shadow mission spams, the SAO tower event, etc.. etc... *even the old amazing race*, all encouraged rewards based on effort and 'PLAYING'.

    - Events that encourage playing make the game more alive, encourage team work, and encourage a more vibrant community, AFKing alone will 'NEVER' do this.

    - Events that encourage playing discourage Gold-Farmer mentality sorts, since the AI for the Bots often times isn't quite up to snuff, and there should STILL be a gachapon rewarding system for ban-reporting these cysts.

    Again, we had Mission Point and Capture the Watermelon last month. If you're in the Mabi Forums discord Nkeona took suggestions down on a list for events folks would like to come back. So expect some of the events folks liked to come back along with whatever holiday events we get this year from GLORIOUS KOREAN OVERLORDS. The inherent system of the game itself encourages grinding and gold-farmer mentality. Furthermore, if we do away with AFK events entirely, we'd actually either get work-work-work events one after another until you burn yourself out, or we'd for the first time in six years actually go any significant portion of time without an event.

    I do respect that you have a decent train of thought and a sound idea. But there's no real problem to AFK events other than the "abuse" that will happen regardless. There's no point in punishing everybody, flat out denying rewards to people, or cutting things out just because people can't play nice. And people will regardless afk with signs up, their latest "daddy's-credit-card-funded" gacha-exclusive outfit that's twice the price of the last one with the oh-so-cute pose, and not actually respond to the unfortunate newbie surrounded by ornate grotesquely colored statue-players. Somehow doing away with some of the bonus incentive to do it isn't going to magically fix it.
    GretaLeinei[Deleted User]
  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Firstly there have been changes to reoccuring events that have changed them into less exploitable versions. For instance the current one, with very good rewards might I add, used to be farmable heavily. I actually have an alt that has low CP, a marble brig, r1 icebolt, and a beginner chaincast ice wand just to sit by raccoons to farm one of the previous iterations of the event. Its a feature pls no ban. Regardless, its impossible to put all your effort into pre-emptively trying to make sure nobody will exploit anything by any means they can. You're just going to waste a lot of resources, especially if you don't have that many to invest in the first place, just to hit the same end result. Learning from past actions is a much better investment and its not going to kill anybody.

    Actually... I can, because i'm not a brain dead developer. I not only learn from the past I actually TAKE NOTES. Which would of fixed this problem by the point of year 1.5.

    - Make the drop trigger go by base-cp of a foe, it may not even care what it reads to you, just that it's of a specific strength tier or beyond -- again, things aren't "always" fair to newbies, granted this still permits the loop hole of "Lets just make Ace Heroic newbies and have them do it".

    - A secondary area for the event as seen with many halloween ones while frustrating as it was, does help cut down on bots, increase general team work, and it helps to control the drop rates without prescribing to the RNG that we know doesn't work properly on mabinogi. (

    - Lag is a real issue for mabinogi and the argument the player needs a better rig isn't exactly the solution here, while again I understand from a company politics stand point more people on = better, I just don't feel like this is really 'the answer' there. It's like having a school full of actual zombies and arguing "Well it's still bodies. Sort of. We're full either way!" There are times the amount of lag I suffer at the dan test I do daily, even closing every other program on my far-more-than-able-to-run-this-game PC; is so laggy that while my average score lagless is 12.75K - 15K, it'll drop to roughly 5-8K; what in the hell nexon. I know adding 1200+ AFK players atop me being on isn't exactly helping my situation. (And no, I don't use C1. I try ghost channels.)

    - Touching on the RNG again, we are now at Bingo Count #85 that i've failed to hit "1" a single time. Again, what in the hell nexon. Fix your . It only worsens this that you can't even feed the bento boxes to the squirrel. If you never get the squirrel. So I now have 25 bento boxes stacked, STILL trying to get 1. Thanks Nexon, you're real pieces of work. Smart developers have actually developed working dice programs for computers, but they're most certainly not the default model. Maybe Nexon should look into using their entirely free to use code.

    - Perhaps the more acute answer if people like (I guarantee only exploiters do) AFK events, is to always host some kind of active event or ensure active players again can get more out of it. because the entire model of this event was horrible. Are the prizes decent? Hell if I know, let me tell you about garnets, tourmalines, bingo coins, and never landing on "1". Which makes the entire argument "Some of the prizes..." <-- Never happen. ever. Because you don't land on "1" so you're half-ass hatcheted entirely out of the event due to a short sighted developer. That squirrel wasn't meant to take weeks to get. The moron behind this ran their numbers based on "Success rate of Cheaters" and then balanced accordingly, which is where the numbers for AFK events really hurt us and result in us seeing such abyssmal grinds when the company attempts to counter-balance that.





  • SurreptitiouslySurreptitiously
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,560
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited September 20, 2017
    Menuoden wrote: »

    Actually... I can, because i'm not a brain dead developer. I not only learn from the past I actually TAKE NOTES. Which would of fixed this problem by the point of year 1.5.
    Being under devcat makes you a brain dead developer. Got it. Good to know, I'll send in my resume with that at the top.
    Menuoden wrote: »

    - Make the drop trigger go by base-cp of a foe, it may not even care what it reads to you, just that it's of a specific strength tier or beyond -- again, things aren't "always" fair to newbies, granted this still permits the loop hole of "Lets just make Ace Heroic newbies and have them do it".
    Things aren't always fair for newbies, so now instead its extremely biased against newbies. Additionally without even changing much of anything with this "fix". Now people who'll do IS shelling at shyllien don't even need -CP gear to farm for coins.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - A secondary area for the event as seen with many halloween ones while frustrating as it was, does help cut down on bots, increase general team work, and it helps to control the drop rates without prescribing to the RNG that we know doesn't work properly on mabinogi. (
    rB4xdIu.jpg

    I'm not certain you understand how RNG works at this point anymore.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - Lag is a real issue for mabinogi and the argument the player needs a better rig isn't exactly the solution here, while again I understand from a company politics stand point more people on = better, I just don't feel like this is really 'the answer' there. It's like having a school full of actual zombies and arguing "Well it's still bodies. Sort of. We're full either way!" There are times the amount of lag I suffer at the dan test I do daily, even closing every other program on my far-more-than-able-to-run-this-game PC; is so laggy that while my average score lagless is 12.75K - 15K, it'll drop to roughly 5-8K; what in the hell nexon. I know adding 1200+ AFK players atop me being on isn't exactly helping my situation. (And no, I don't use C1. I try ghost channels.)
    Neither do I think you know how lag and optimization are in mabinogi. Allow me to clarify a few things. Firstly, lag in mabinogi is a multi-faceted thing. There are many contributions to it and many factors. Some of the primary ones are delay to the server, rendering lag, and the poor optimization of the game itself. Additionally, 1200 AFK players on another channel don't contribute to your lag. Unless the situation with the servers being taxed is that bad (major channel full and someone probably stepping on the server cords), chances are very low that you will lag if you are off of the market channel.

    Also, you'd think that situation wouldn't be the one here with company politics, but in a sick case of irony it is. Optimizing the game isn't the highest on the bench for Devcat, and if it hasn't by now it likely wont for a while longer.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - Touching on the RNG again, we are now at Bingo Count #85 that i've failed to hit "1" a single time. Again, what in the hell nexon. Fix your . It only worsens this that you can't even feed the bento boxes to the squirrel. If you never get the squirrel. So I now have 25 bento boxes stacked, STILL trying to get 1. Thanks Nexon, you're real pieces of work. Smart developers have actually developed working dice programs for computers, but they're most certainly not the default model. Maybe Nexon should look into using their entirely free to use code.
    I get that Nexon RNG is loving you, but did you just happen to miss the free stamps given on the weekend for a single spot on the board? Also I think you either bunged up your post or didn't make that link work.

    I've gotten two huge lucky finishes (Luck/50000 chance, I had 200 luck at this time) in a row on Garbage Herbs from ecology in district 2 (4% chance). If it happened again within the hour, yes I would have cursed rngesus for his crimes. It never did. 85 times is also a laughable sample size for a 25 number pool.
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - Perhaps the more acute answer if people like (I guarantee only exploiters do) AFK events, is to always host some kind of active event or ensure active players again can get more out of it. because the entire model of this event was horrible. Are the prizes decent? Hell if I know, let me tell you about garnets, tourmalines, bingo coins, and never landing on "1". Which makes the entire argument "Some of the prizes..." <-- Never happen. ever. Because you don't land on "1" so you're half-ass hatcheted entirely out of the event due to a short sighted developer. That squirrel wasn't meant to take weeks to get. The moron behind this ran their numbers based on "Success rate of Cheaters" and then balanced accordingly, which is where the numbers for AFK events really hurt us and result in us seeing such abyssmal grinds when the company attempts to counter-balance that.
    Today I learned that afking all day makes me a cheater. I must be some sort of neo-hitler for having 2.67 squirrel bags worth right now.

    To be honest if I was in Devcat's shoes and reading this post I'd probably be laughing because its quite accurate that one is supposed to invest a decent amount of time into the game to actually obtain the item they need. AFK events are practically entry-level with some of the RNG in this game. The items for the Soluna blade and the destructive robes are probably around a 1/200 drop chance. The Rosemary glove pattern is a whopping 1/25000 chance to obtain from fishing. There are numerous other things in the game with an astronomically low chance of being obtained.

    Frankly, While I do believe that there is a decent need to bring in more events that are more engaging, doing away with AFK events simply because of "cheaters and exploiters" is a swiss cheese argument. It is also coming across heavily that you are quite tilted and/or salty that a 4% chance didn't hit, which is probably resulting in more bias against AFK events.
    Leinei[Deleted User]
  • PectylPectyl
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,715
    Posts: 90
    Member
    I can honestly say, just give up Menuoden you had a good argument but your topic isn't going to change anything, I wrote a similar forum thread when the events first started flooding this game a couple of years back, and people simply called it or me impossible, paranoid or lies, now that what i mentioned have happened (being the constant hosting of events and the collapse of an already fragile economy) I personally know i was right.

    It's like going out to a lions den and poking the lions with a pointy stick. = they are not going to like it.
  • LidrsterLidrster
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,830
    Posts: 98
    Member
    Menuoden wrote: »
    But it's not just bad because of the unpredictable RNG...
    A good RNG is supposed to be unpredictable, that's one of the main reason they exists.
    So you're actually saying that mabi's RNG isn't that bad :trollface:

    [Deleted User]