Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the 16th Anniversary and VIP Renewal Update! https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/90098/16th-anniversary-and-vip-renewal-patch-notes-march-14th
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

Market Prices Discussion

Comments

  • scorpin99scorpin99
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,180
    Posts: 22
    Member

    @Twln with uncontrolled price, demand prices wont always be reasonable . controlled prices is what makes it reasonable. updating pve and life skills contribute to making fair gold for fixed prices. i also wouldn't mind a bid system on this auction house to create a gold sink

    i mean yea, uncontrolled prices and no gold sinks would do that, but it always seems to me that nobody takes into consideration the people who are in early/midgame want these fashion items just as much, yet we don't have the ability to pay for them. They always seem like they're priced for the people who can amass unreasonable amounts of gold in a short time, and it makes it seem always out of reach.

    this turns off new people and causes them to go away sometimes, which is my point. If we don't take the ability for certain people to pay for items into account, it could drive away people.
    Twln
  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    scorpin99
    scorpin99 said:


    @Twln with uncontrolled price, demand prices wont always be reasonable . controlled prices is what makes it reasonable. updating pve and life skills contribute to making fair gold for fixed prices. i also wouldn't mind a bid system on this auction house to create a gold sink

    i mean yea, uncontrolled prices and no gold sinks would do that, but it always seems to me that nobody takes into consideration the people who are in early/midgame want these fashion items just as much, yet we don't have the ability to pay for them. They always seem like they're priced for the people who can amass unreasonable amounts of gold in a short time, and it makes it seem always out of reach.

    this turns off new people and causes them to go away sometimes, which is my point. If we don't take the ability for certain people to pay for items into account, it could drive away people.
    I agree tottally

    whats in bold is exactly a reaon why i want controlled prices. rich people most of them) really have no compassion for any one but themselves. This way, they're forced to sell reasonbally.


    but nexon seriously needs to create a pve that allows players toearn great money at all levels. think of pve as a job. the better you get, the better pve spots you can do. = more money is achieved. this would keep the market goin



  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited January 9, 2017
    "student-level economics" <<< "economics actually used in practice" basically :)

    ^ Doesn't work in the real world, and it doesn't work in videogames either by extension that as a product of the real world is an example of putting these things into an actual practice. Yup, still mostly fails in more ways than one

    Without a centralized market, people will simply have to barter and haggle. Problem is, modern man is antisocial because of social networking. People'd rather interact with GUIs, and since videogame avatars are an analogue to IN-PERSON interactions, that won't work. What with the whole ``everyone is out to screw you`` mentality that the fearmongers like to preach everywhere ^_^
  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited January 9, 2017
    Kouyioue
    Kouyioue said:

    "student-level economics" <<< "economics actually used in practice" basically :)
    ^ Doesn't work in the real world, and it doesn't work in videogames either by extension that as a product of the real world is an example of putting these things into an actual practice. Yup, still mostly fails in more ways than one</p>
    Due to this ecenmoy system successfully working in other games, where mabi's is often consider bad.your comment is rather invald :) try reserching successful games

    Might I add, those games are more populated and give more sense of acheievement than mabi while also being more inconvient (like not having to set up shop again after dcing
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited January 9, 2017
    The difference being that there's a lack of demand even for commonly desired items. Not supply. Both supply and demand
    Though there are people who log in. There's a lack of people who ----play---- and an even smaller percentage who are privileged enough to use housing
  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited January 9, 2017
    Kouyioue
    Kouyioue said:

    The difference being that there's a lack of demand even for commonly desired items. Not supply. Both supply and demand
    Though there are people who log in. There's a lack of people who ----play---- and an even smaller percentage who are privileged enough to use housing
    Because mabis housing system is awfully balanced and *this game lacks replay content to keep people interested. (for example)A normal game, they'd createa s pvp sense for the audience who's inteested

    For mabi, the devs will say pvp was not intended, then have people back them up on this. But then one of you realize that your scaring away people willing to stay because no pvp is balanced /given incentives to get better.

    they also could make a nice market place for musical items
  • DaktaroDaktaro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,335
    Posts: 282
    Member
    if you're selling an item, price it however you want.
    if someone comes along and is willing to pay that price for your item, then it's fair. (provided they earned the gold through legitimate means.)
    like other people have mentioned - supply and demand.
    some items are extremely hard to get too, which will drive the price up no matter how rich or poor the playerbase is. prices can go higher than the of majority of "rich" players are even willing to pay.
    some people are still happy to drop their money on items with 8-9 digit prices.
    if a seller prices an item at 100m and /everyone/ is like nope that's too expensive, either the item will sit there and never sell or the seller will drop the price.

    just to say it's not only the super rich players who encourage prices either. they may be the most influential but anyone who buys at those prices are also partially responsible.
    i made a chart that won't include every scenario but should prove the point.

    LEVELS OF WEALTH
    ( / = and/or)
    > rich player (regularly sells gacha or store items/heavily grinds for gold/buys low sells high/always has money)
    > casual player (saves gold gradually over time or fluctuates between rich and poor)
    > poor player (is new/is low level/doesn't play much/wants to work for gold but can't for some reason/doesn't have money at the time)
    > lazy player (doesn't want to work for anything in-game/can be rich or poor)

    [expensive item people want]
    BUYERS
    > rich player - buys immediately without thinking too hard about it/considers for a bit then caves and buys
    > casual player - it might take out a chunk of savings or their entire savings and make them "poor" for a while but they buy it cuz they want it so bad
    > poor player - wants this thing so bad they relentlessly make gold until they can finally buy. even if it takes years/prices may have dropped in this time/works on levelling and ranking skills+bettering their earning performance/perhaps moves to a higher level of wealth.
    > lazy player - gets gold via illegitimate means and buys the item
    NOT BOTHERED
    > rich player - has the money but doesn't agree with the price so waits for a lower priced item or just doesn't buy
    > casual player - has the money or some of the money but doesn't agree with the price so waits for a lower priced item or just doesn't buy. may or may not work on bettering their earning performance in the meantime.
    > poor player - doesnt have the money and doesn't agree with the price so waits for a lower priced item or just doesn't buy. may or may not work on bettering their earning performance in the meantime.
    > lazy player - doesnt have the money and doesn't agree with the price so waits for a lower priced item or just doesn't buy
    COMPLAINERS
    > rich player - has the money but QQs cuz they wanna buy low regardless/possible hypocrite if they sell high too
    > casual player - they may have the money but it takes them so long/so much effort to earn so they QQ about it
    > poor player - they don't have the money and it takes them even longer/so much more effort to earn or for some reason they physically can't earn the money so they QQ about it
    > lazy player - can't be bothered to do anything/doesn't help themselves but wants item anyways/sees other players with money so QQs
    MissFortuneClovis15GretaSylviaWolfe
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,159
    Member
    edited January 9, 2017
    Despite the funds I -might- have, I prefer to buy low so I can maintain those funds. That's how you retain wealth and not squander it away. Deal with it.

    I guess I am one of those players. Meh.
    Erydanos
  • ReassureReassure
    Mabinogi Rep: 800
    Posts: 28
    Member
    Lol. A lot of our issues would be solved if there was a simple, effective, and reliable way for buyers and sellers to communicate with each other. Like other people here have said, personal shops are inconvenient for both buyers and sellers and not everyone is willing to deal with the hassle for the chance that something MIGHT sell, or you MIGHT find the item you want at a POSSIBLY reasonable price. That's why even if an item isn't considered rare in the playerbase, it might be in the market since only a small percentage of players who are willing to sell that item will list it in a party ad or shop, and you also have to be in the right place at the right time to even learn of that item's existence in so-and-so's shop in the first place. What we need is a universal auction system or housing board where everyone can view and list items. That would gather everything for sale in ONE place and most of the prices would as a result stabilize. A "forced" price control on items would never work as there are countless ways around that and it would just serve to skew the market even further. It'll drive prices higher by taking things out of circulation as people deem harvesting or selling those items not worth it, and people would just start trading checks instead of using shops or other means to sell their things.
    Daktaro
  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    "Quote" rel="Reassure">Lol. A lot of our issues would be solved if there was a simple, effective, and reliable way for buyers and sellers to communicate with each other. Like other people here have said, personal shops are inconvenient for both buyers and sellers and not everyone is willing to deal with the hassle for the chance that something MIGHT sell, or you MIGHT find the item you want at a POSSIBLY reasonable price. That's why even if an item isn't considered rare in the playerbase, it might be in the market since only a small percentage of players who are willing to sell that item will list it in a party ad or shop, and you also have to be in the right place at the right time to even learn of that item's existence in so-and-so's shop in the first place. What we need is a universal auction system or housing board where everyone can view and list items. That would gather everything for sale in ONE place and most of the prices would as a result stabilize. A "forced" price control on items would never work as there are countless ways around that and it would just serve to skew the market even further. It'll drive prices higher by taking things out of circulation as people deem harvesting or selling those items not worth it, and people would just start trading checks instead of using shops or other means to sell their things.


    You're not solving anything but minor inconveniences with your opinion. The economy will still be a broken mess, but hey, at least we can see all the insanely priced items more accessibly :)

  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
    Member
    Firefall 1.3's Trade Tab
  • ErydanosErydanos
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,295
    Posts: 64
    Member
    Supply and demand play a great role in determining the price of an item, and they do it in tandem.

    The owner of one-of-a-kind-item in the server is free to price it as he sees fit, but at the same time the potential buyers are free to accept the price or don't. Someone has to yield at some point (the seller either lowers the price or takes the item out; the buyer either meets the seller's price or waits for it to go lower)

    There's also a chance to haggle, but one thing is 'haggling' and other very different is 'begging', 'lying' or 'annoying'.

    Now, ingame obtainable items are prone to be priced by the server's population due to having and idea of the work/time required to obtain (Holy Water, Materials, Equips), this stuff is good for newbies as is attainable by them and serves as a foundation for building up their 'wealth'.

    Same goes for cash shop items bought with a set amount of NX (Pets, Reforges, etc) as is easy to set a NX to Gold ratio.

    Problem comes when we try to apply this to gachas, since actually it isn't possible due to the RNG nature. This items' prices are set by the players themselves and supply and demand affect them more widely. And this items are what most of the players are after.

    We also have the problem of inflation, since many players have hoarded crazy amounts of gold. You can see that at certain level, spamming SM is easy, so some players can gather gold at their leisure. They can met any price, no matter how wild, with little second thoughts: they have more than enough gold and in any case, they know how to farm more in a decent time.

    The problem is when those wild prices become 'norm'. You know someone sold said item at XX gold? Then, you look for that item set at the same price or lower. If you own one of those items and plan to sell, you do at that XX price as your base or higher. So we have again the supply-demand dance.

    Daktaro
  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    Erydanos
    Erydanos said:

    Supply and demand play a great role in determining the price of an item, and they do it in tandem.

    The owner of one-of-a-kind-item in the server is free to price it as he sees fit, but at the same time the potential buyers are free to accept the price or don't. Someone has to yield at some point (the seller either lowers the price or takes the item out; the buyer either meets the seller's price or waits for it to go lower)


    It doesn't matter if the buyer agrees or not. If its a rare item, they're gonna do everything in their power (which includes selling reforges / gacha) to get said item.

    Lets just agree your eceonomy will not be fixed anytime soon
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    The economy is never going to be fixed unless there's a huge revamp on the market system where prices of all items can be compared. Otherwise there will always be these kind of players:

    Buyer:
    1- Lazy/busy players that do not do research on market prices and items and then complain (I'm specifically pointing at you lazy players) it's hard to find items for reasonable price etc
    2- Desperate/impatient buyer that do not want to wait another longer to find another seller of the item.
    3- Normal/patient buyer that waits to find the item at reasonable price
    4- Rich buyer that don't think much about spending

    Seller:
    1- Experienced in monitoring prices of high demand items and knows exactly the price to sell which for some players seem overpriced but actually sells quite well
    2- Normal sellers that follows the market price
    3- Desperate/nice sellers that sells below the market price
    4- Greedy/hypocrite sellers that always overprice items
  • MissFortuneMissFortune
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,530
    Posts: 349
    Member

    I find it interesting that the tone given to the seller is always 'greedy.' Rather than the same tone given to the buyer who could just as easily be greedy and trying to low-ball a price of an item.
    SylviaWolfe
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    edited January 11, 2017
    I call a seller greedy when I know the price of said items are usually sold at a much much lower price. And can be commonly found at that price too. Unless the seller is really clueless about the price. It is not lowballing when the buyer offers the market price.

    EDIT: Oh right, can add 1 more category to the buyer, the lowballing and do you accept **bad** trades? buyer
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
    Posts: 564
    Member
    I never understood the belief that the housing market was "overpriced". It's no more "overpriced" than a guy trying to sell his random item in Belvast for millions over the known market price. It's not a matter of "convenience". It's a matter of what each player knows and is attempting to achieve. Some sellers have decent prices, and some sellers (regardless of whether they use housing or belvast) are hoping that a desperate player will buy their higher priced item. More often than not, I hear people use the "overpriced" spiel to try and trick lowbies and newbies out of their rares.

    Often people will place a far higher list price than they intend to sell for, regardless of where they are selling. The intent is that anyone who really wants the item will message the person and haggle, but "merchants" and resellers will stay away.
    MissFortuneSinsAndFalseAlarmsDaktaro
  • Ajthegreat2Ajthegreat2
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,100
    Posts: 12
    Member
    We need a better selling system in general..being me I don't want to be forced to stay on the same channel..or have low space due to the lack of space in personal shops..all in all if the community as a whole were more closer u probably would see more ppl moving around and chatting buuuut...nope lol..but ye supply and demand influence it alot..if I have something someone wants I get it price checked and I set up a party tht allows them to let me know what they would like to pay for it..that just how I do things cause it makes it easier for me and the buyer..interesting topic tho
  • SinsAndFalseAlarmsSinsAndFalseAlarms
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,820
    Posts: 39
    Member
    Policroma
    [Often people will place a far higher list price than they intend to sell for, regardless of where they are selling. The intent is that anyone who really wants the item will message the person and haggle, but "merchants" and resellers will stay away.]


    This so much. I will put a rather high buyout on a lot of items to leave more room for haggling and conversation for people that actually WANT the item. If you're going to resell it for higher, I'm going to do my best to at least get a nice fair price anyway.



    One thing that annoys me is the "kind hearted" people that note you telling you that your prices are high and it should be like...5m lower. Like, first off, I didn't ask you. And second off, there is no exact pricing information and it's my item and I can do what I want with MY item and MY selling of it. Sometimes those people actually DO mean well, but sometimes they just come off as people trying to trick you into lowering a price so they can snag a cheap item.

    It's even worse when they keep trying, as if their "good Samaritan" routine won't annoy the heck out of me once I made it clear I disagree. I disagree, please shut up and stop spamming my inbox with your notes trying to explain the market.

  • TwlnTwln
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 32
    Member
    Policroma
    Policroma said:

    I never understood the belief that the housing market was "overpriced". It's no more "overpriced" than a guy trying to sell his random item in Belvast for millions over the known market price. It's not a matter of "convenience". It's a matter of what each player knows and is attempting to achieve. Some sellers have decent prices, and some sellers (regardless of whether they use housing or belvast) are hoping that a desperate player will buy their higher priced item. More often than not, I hear people use the "overpriced" spiel to try and trick lowbies and newbies out of their rares.



    Often people will place a far higher list price than they intend to sell for, regardless of where they are selling. The intent is that anyone who really wants the item will message the person and haggle, but "merchants" and resellers will stay away.

    And whats stopping people who have rare items from contacting eachother and agreeing to spike the price. Knowing theres no other method / person to obtain these items?


    this is worth 50? how about you sell for 80 and i sell for 75?''
    ''80m isn't too much. one guy sold it for 75''