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Why did you turn on the servers on early

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  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
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    I think a certain level IS appropriate. I wasn't talking a cumulative of 10k or 1k, although my logic there was that as an anniversary celebration, it should celebrate Mabinogi and the players who supported it. To which I say yes, an argument can be made that some "deserve" it more. (To clarify, this is a basic distinction between prospective players and established players, not "14031 deserving it more than 14029")

    Even then, the level should ideally be high enough that repeating alternative entries would be more burdensome with more attempts. Say...300. Nothing to newer players, a nightmare to repeat a significant number of times.

    Perhaps with occasional email renewals, this would weed out more without such an unnecessary blow to low level players.

    This isn't too high a burden to fulfill. It is almost a requisite of sorts, a minimum to say one plays Mabinogi.

    My favorite idea, though, is separate tiers for different ranges of levels. (1-1k,1001-2k, 9001-20k.
    This is why new players didn't stay and didn't enjoy Mabi because they're intimidated by entitled old players like you. You know how discriminative that is? Making a completely non-combat related event into different categories based on total levels? I also read that someone here in this forum suggesting that the rewards for lower level players to be different than the higher level players and less valuable. This will only make the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. If anything, lower level players/newbies should be the one that gets the expensive prizes because higher level players can earn gold easily and already have so many expensive stuff. Total levels doesn't say anything about how long you plays, it just shows how frequent you rebirth and level. When I was new, I stayed below ttl 300 for a while because I don't want to reset my level. You should be able to play mabi as you like, not get told on how you should play.
    Sherri
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 943
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    I'm purposely under ttl 1k and have been playing actively for like three years.
    I should totally be punished for not wanting to level right?
    Why are people being so insistent on this?
    You don't think people are gonna just grind to the level cap with alts for the prizes?
    Your idea fixes nothing and prevents actual players from doing might as well be called content.
    Simply because you're overwhelmed by the "bot community" and how its "ruining the game".
    Remember those accounts are controlled by players. Players determined to get those rewards.
    If they want it bad enough they will grind for the items. Limiting player level does nothing other than make people quit faster.
    (especially when you start putting those levels in the thousands)
    Sherri
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
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    edited March 25, 2018
    The purpose behind my suggestion isn't to spite newer players, but to prevent alternate account spamming, which let us be honest, would be done by the richest, and most "dedicated" of players. This isn't an original suggestion, but something many games implement to curb exploitation. We saw this happen with the Hamlet Delegation Event.

    I don't think level 300 is too high, but specifics in my suggestion aren't as concrete to defend as the general notion of level restrictions. I accounted for the daily rebirths when thinking of a nice, easy number.

    I also suggest the tier system of a separate set of tiers per level ranges, or to hearken back to an age old suggestion, make such items untradeable, which now that I think of it, the latter is probably for the best.

    I merely entertained the idea of "entitlement", due to the notion that MMORPGs and such best work meritocratically. I cannot solo Phantasm or Alban Knight's Train ground SSS, but I won't chastise or envy those who can. They may be more stacked, or be better players. Depends on how it is done, I'd say they rightfully deserve their accomplishments and the titles that come from doing so.

    It isn't discrimination to recognize achievement others do not achieve, which includes a minimum level, which isn't aggravating to grind to, mind you, unless people do so repeatedly. (I.E. Alternate accounts)

    And yes @Opalthira , I think it would help. The idea is pretty simple. You offer a hindrance that becomes stifling the more times it is repeated, thus cutting down on abuse. Once? No problem. Several times? Uh oh. It is the same reason why bitcoin was so ingenious. It solved a similar problem where it was difficult to duplicate it coin by coin, and nigh impossible in large sums.

    @ShouK You act as if participation in the Instaprize event is mandatory or an integral part of Mabinogi. It isn't, but I say leveling is consistently a major and integral part of the game, not the other way around. "Not get told"? No one is telling me to participate, or to solo Phantasm, or to solo White Dragon. I'd label such things periphery parts of the game, really.

    Edit: I hope I do not come off as rude, as controversial as my ideas are. That is not my intention. My ideal is to stop alternate spam with the least hindrance to innocents.

    To promote discussion, I would like to ask what you all think should be done to prevent alternate account spamming, first and foremost.
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 1,009
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    edited March 25, 2018
    I think a certain level IS appropriate. I wasn't talking a cumulative of 10k or 1k, although my logic there was that as an anniversary celebration, it should celebrate Mabinogi and the players who supported it. To which I say yes, an argument can be made that some "deserve" it more. (To clarify, this is a basic distinction between prospective players and established players, not "14031 deserving it more than 14029")

    Maybe they could give a special title to those who have been around then since the first year. "so-and-so made it to year 10!", without any bonuses or something. It will acknowledge those who helped the game along the way but it wont be some special "n00b alert: you can't go any further cuz u no grindz" type thing.

    The purpose behind my suggestion isn't to spite newer players, but to prevent alternate account spamming, which let us be honest, would be done by the richest, and most "dedicated" of players. This isn't an original suggestion, but something many games implement to curb exploitation. We saw this happen with the Hamlet Delegation Event.

    I don't think level 300 is too high, but specifics in my suggestion aren't as concrete to defend as the general notion of level restrictions. I accounted for the daily rebirths when thinking of a nice, easy number.

    I also suggest the tier system of a separate set of tiers per level ranges, or to hearken back to an age old suggestion, make such items untradeable, which now that I think of it, the latter is probably for the best.

    I merely entertained the idea of "entitlement", due to the notion that MMORPGs and such best work meritocratically. I cannot solo Phantasm or Alban Knight's Train ground SSS, but I won't chastise or envy those who can. They may be more stacked, or be better players. Depends on how it is done, I'd say they rightfully deserve their accomplishments and the titles that come from doing so.

    It isn't discrimination to recognize achievement others do not achieve, which includes a minimum level, which isn't aggravating to grind to, mind you, unless people do so repeatedly. (I.E. Alternate accounts)

    And yes @Opalthira , I think it would help. The idea is pretty simple. You offer a hindrance that becomes stifling the more times it is repeated, thus cutting down on abuse. Once? No problem. Several times? Uh oh. It is the same reason why bitcoin was so ingenious. It solved a similar problem where it was difficult to duplicate it coin by coin, and nigh impossible in large sums.

    @ShouK You act as if participation in the Instaprize event is mandatory or an integral part of Mabinogi. It isn't, but I say leveling is consistently a major and integral part of the game, not the other way around. "Not get told"? No one is telling me to participate, or to solo Phantasm, or to solo White Dragon. I'd label such things periphery parts of the game, really.

    Edit: I hope I do not come off as rude, as controversial as my ideas are. That is not my intention. My ideal is to stop alternate spam with the least hindrance to innocents.

    To promote discussion, I would like to ask what you all think should be done to prevent alternate account spamming, first and foremost.

    The thing that I think should be done is us, the players, reporting them and the GM's ACTUALLY doing something to stop it. But why would they when it increases the numbers? They'd be out jobs if these people actually stopped multi-client and alt spamming players because the population would be so far down, so they don't care about the community.

    The whole elitist mentality is a huge downer on lower level players. My highest total level character is like, 1700. There are times I'll spend a whole day playing, just using exploration and that's not going to increase my total level much, and just because I choose to explore the world instead of grinding missions or dungeons, does not make me less "worthy" of the "top tier prize".
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
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    You act as if participation in the Instaprize event is mandatory or an integral part of Mabinogi. It isn't, but I say leveling is consistently a major and integral part of the game, not the other way around. "Not get told"? No one is telling me to participate, or to solo Phantasm, or to solo White Dragon. I'd label such things periphery parts of the game, really.

    To promote discussion, I would like to ask what you all think should be done to prevent alternate account spamming, first and foremost.
    Um of course it's not, the instaprize is an event, which is why it should not discriminate low level players as it's basically a "free stuff" event. I'm not sure why you brought something like phantasm here. But like how phantasm is not mandatory, leveling is also not mandatory. But if you need to purposely level up just for the sake of doing an event that only needs you to click a button, then you're basically being told how to play, that is, keep leveling. I didn't resetted my levels like a year because there's really no reason to level. All I want back then is to train skills and do generations. And okay 300 ttl might be fine for people who have been playing for a while but what if a player just joined Mabi not long before the instaprize event? He can't possibly get to level 300 within that short time.

    Nexon just need to ban people who multi-clients to prevent alt spamming. Simple as that.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    I think a certain level IS appropriate. I wasn't talking a cumulative of 10k or 1k, although my logic there was that as an anniversary celebration, it should celebrate Mabinogi and the players who supported it. To which I say yes, an argument can be made that some "deserve" it more. (To clarify, this is a basic distinction between prospective players and established players, not "14031 deserving it more than 14029")

    Maybe they could give a special title to those who have been around then since the first year. "so-and-so made it to year 10!", without any bonuses or something. It will acknowledge those who helped the game along the way but it wont be some special "n00b alert: you can't go any further cuz u no grindz" type thing.

    The purpose behind my suggestion isn't to spite newer players, but to prevent alternate account spamming, which let us be honest, would be done by the richest, and most "dedicated" of players. This isn't an original suggestion, but something many games implement to curb exploitation. We saw this happen with the Hamlet Delegation Event.

    I don't think level 300 is too high, but specifics in my suggestion aren't as concrete to defend as the general notion of level restrictions. I accounted for the daily rebirths when thinking of a nice, easy number.

    I also suggest the tier system of a separate set of tiers per level ranges, or to hearken back to an age old suggestion, make such items untradeable, which now that I think of it, the latter is probably for the best.

    I merely entertained the idea of "entitlement", due to the notion that MMORPGs and such best work meritocratically. I cannot solo Phantasm or Alban Knight's Train ground SSS, but I won't chastise or envy those who can. They may be more stacked, or be better players. Depends on how it is done, I'd say they rightfully deserve their accomplishments and the titles that come from doing so.

    It isn't discrimination to recognize achievement others do not achieve, which includes a minimum level, which isn't aggravating to grind to, mind you, unless people do so repeatedly. (I.E. Alternate accounts)

    And yes @Opalthira , I think it would help. The idea is pretty simple. You offer a hindrance that becomes stifling the more times it is repeated, thus cutting down on abuse. Once? No problem. Several times? Uh oh. It is the same reason why bitcoin was so ingenious. It solved a similar problem where it was difficult to duplicate it coin by coin, and nigh impossible in large sums.

    @ShouK You act as if participation in the Instaprize event is mandatory or an integral part of Mabinogi. It isn't, but I say leveling is consistently a major and integral part of the game, not the other way around. "Not get told"? No one is telling me to participate, or to solo Phantasm, or to solo White Dragon. I'd label such things periphery parts of the game, really.

    Edit: I hope I do not come off as rude, as controversial as my ideas are. That is not my intention. My ideal is to stop alternate spam with the least hindrance to innocents.

    To promote discussion, I would like to ask what you all think should be done to prevent alternate account spamming, first and foremost.

    The thing that I think should be done is us, the players, reporting them and the GM's ACTUALLY doing something to stop it. But why would they when it increases the numbers? They'd be out jobs if these people actually stopped multi-client and alt spamming players because the population would be so far down, so they don't care about the community.

    The whole elitist mentality is a huge downer on lower level players. My highest total level character is like, 1700. There are times I'll spend a whole day playing, just using exploration and that's not going to increase my total level much, and just because I choose to explore the world instead of grinding missions or dungeons, does not make me less "worthy" of the "top tier prize".

    I do agree there. I don't feel entitled to any prizes, but I felt it just another alternative to other suggestions. In any case, I was entertaining the argument that older players do deserve something, in order to find yet another avenue to argue against prior suggestions against level requirements. I was arguing against that line of logic against "entitlement", if anything, by stating that in a way, older players are entitled to some things.

    I honestly don't feel that level 300 is too big a deal for many reasons. First and foremost, daily rebirths were extended to till level 1k. 300 is chump change these days, and would require a few days of adamant play, which I felt would make using alternate accounts to such a number unwieldy.

    Nx Credit obeys the same principle, with a requirement of level 100 before being able to use Paypal or Debit to pay for this. It is discriminatory in nature, but I understand the notion of wishing to prevent unauthorized transactions or otherwise.

    I do find your jaded cynicism disheartening and full of assumptions. First off, how does one know if numbers in game have any bearing on any significant decision regarding Game Masters? Second, are we really to assume they're that irresponsible? I don't see your evidence, and many things point to the contrary.

    As for the reporting, much of it is touch and go, and seem more akin to a witch hunt and rumor spreading than anything helpful. Some players are heavily suspected of this for logical reasons, but I am hesitant to use reports on those who may otherwise be legitimate players. I don't feel it would work as well as an encompassing level requirement, but perhaps there can be ways to bypass it, such as when accounts were made, which when combined with email renewal, may make the juggling of accounts too cumbersome to do it as efficiently.

    In any case, here is one thing I think needs to be said. I believe people like you to be in the vast minority. Equally applied generalities always have their drawbacks. One cannot account for every single individual, yet by setting the bar at a right place, Nexon can effectively removed many alternate accounts while not being too burdensome on a great number of legitimate players.

    To which I say, leveling up past a certain extent, or choosing not to, is your choice. Not being able to participate in content as a result of your choices isn't nonsense; it's how games generally function, and should function. Meritocratically, if anything.
    Twelie
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
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    edited March 25, 2018
    ShouK wrote: »
    You act as if participation in the Instaprize event is mandatory or an integral part of Mabinogi. It isn't, but I say leveling is consistently a major and integral part of the game, not the other way around. "Not get told"? No one is telling me to participate, or to solo Phantasm, or to solo White Dragon. I'd label such things periphery parts of the game, really.

    To promote discussion, I would like to ask what you all think should be done to prevent alternate account spamming, first and foremost.
    Um of course it's not, the instaprize is an event, which is why it should not discriminate low level players as it's basically a "free stuff" event. I'm not sure why you brought something like phantasm here. But like how phantasm is not mandatory, leveling is also not mandatory. But if you need to purposely level up just for the sake of doing an event that only needs you to click a button, then you're basically being told how to play, that is, keep leveling. I didn't resetted my levels like a year because there's really no reason to level. All I want back then is to train skills and do generations. And okay 300 ttl might be fine for people who have been playing for a while but what if a player just joined Mabi not long before the instaprize event? He can't possibly get to level 300 within that short time.

    Nexon just need to ban people who multi-clients to prevent alt spamming. Simple as that.

    I could also say not playing is mandatory, on the very same reason. Everything is only as "mandatory" as the goals one seeks to achieve. Not even playing the game at all is not mandatory.

    Leveling is what I consider an integral part of this game, and much of it revolves around combat of some sort. My reasoning is that many functions involve leveling of some sorts. Leveling is the primary way to earn AP in the long run, event accounting for journal achievements. Take out leveling, and you take out the avenues opened up by leveling, which takes out many facets of Erinn that make up Mabinogi.

    That is my reasoning for why I consider leveling to be an "integral" part. Because many of the goals most players have usually concerns the leveling system in a major way, and many concerns gaining experience that would make every attempt to not level a difficult task in itself. To which i also believe regardless of the path, leveling is first and foremost generally unavoidable.

    I subscribe to preventative measures since it would put less of a bullseye on lower leveled players anyway. In any case, concerning your "They joined late" rationale, this could apply to any player of any level who logged in on the last few days of an event, lamenting how they cannot save up enough event currency, to which I say "Well, you should have kept up with the game then". It is a mark of merit to participate in an event, and if one logs in or creates an account too late, then so be it. There's always more events in the woodworks. To reiterate, I don't see why leveling leniency should be considered for events anymore than those asking for extensions because of their own failure to participate.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Opalthira wrote: »
    I'm purposely under ttl 1k and have been playing actively for like three years.
    I should totally be punished for not wanting to level right?

    Yes. You choose to limit yourself, the game shouldn't be balanced around your specific style of playing. Besides that, what you've obtained in beginner benefits daily vastly out values this raffle. There's no point in being under 1k now.


    Why are people being so insistent on this?
    You don't think people are gonna just grind to the level cap with alts for the prizes?
    Your idea fixes nothing and prevents actual players from doing might as well be called content.
    Simply because you're overwhelmed by the "bot community" and how its "ruining the game".
    Remember those accounts are controlled by players. Players determined to get those rewards.

    Because it gets to a point where legitimate players don't bother with events due to swarms of bots stealing all the good prizes. Look at archeage and the issue it has with bots. Bots do ruin a lot of the game or give people unfair advantages. I doubt those accounts are controlled by players, it'd probably take less time to learn basic programming and make a simple bot than it would to make and level 10 accounts.

    If they want it bad enough they will grind for the items. Limiting player level does nothing other than make people quit faster.
    (especially when you start putting those levels in the thousands)

    While I do actually like the idea of different tier rewards (it's a goal to strive for, provided the rewards are slightly better and not broken AKA tier 1 (1-1000) gets a free longsword while tier 5 (20k+) gets a enchanted, reforged celtic royal knight sword. But something like tier one getting an RB pot while tier 5 gets forgetful pot and an RB pot.
  • Pie5434Pie5434
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,020
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    edited March 27, 2018
    In general, there is no "set" way to stop botting alts or alt accounts. Even if you put a total restriction, there may be less people who bot for the sake of it's more extra effort in the beginning but like other people have said, lots of botters are very dedicated players would probably wouldn't mind.

    My two ideas that might help (maybe not and might cause problems in the end) are:
    1) Make it MAC locked.
    This may cause problems because if someone shares computers, they may be unfairly unable to play the event. An argument people may make also is that it gives people an advantage who have multiple computers and to that I mean, that's always been an advantage. An example is if you wanted to get more rewards in Phantasm or any dungeon. You could just bring alts using multiple computers and get more rewards even though it may take more work to clear the chest (it might not matter as if we think of getting a pass for Phantasm is somewhat expensive or it may be annoying to get an advanced pass rather than using alts to possibly get the item in one run, etc.). (Also I'm not sure if Nexon keeps MAC addresses or has them)

    2) Make tiers but with the same items.
    Just make it so it's the same rewards but for example level 1-1000 is one tier and 1000-2000 etc is another tier up to x amount (numbers can change). It gives those who have grinded more a higher or sometimes lower change depending on your server total level distribution but appeases those who may be unhappy that they are unable to get a reward because a bot spammed to get it.

    Sorry if I repeated anyone's ideas, I tend to skim a lot.
  • GretaGreta
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    Thread of wall texts.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
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    ShouK wrote: »
    I think a certain level IS appropriate. I wasn't talking a cumulative of 10k or 1k, although my logic there was that as an anniversary celebration, it should celebrate Mabinogi and the players who supported it. To which I say yes, an argument can be made that some "deserve" it more. (To clarify, this is a basic distinction between prospective players and established players, not "14031 deserving it more than 14029")

    Even then, the level should ideally be high enough that repeating alternative entries would be more burdensome with more attempts. Say...300. Nothing to newer players, a nightmare to repeat a significant number of times.

    Perhaps with occasional email renewals, this would weed out more without such an unnecessary blow to low level players.

    This isn't too high a burden to fulfill. It is almost a requisite of sorts, a minimum to say one plays Mabinogi.

    My favorite idea, though, is separate tiers for different ranges of levels. (1-1k,1001-2k, 9001-20k.
    This is why new players didn't stay and didn't enjoy Mabi because they're intimidated by entitled old players like you. You know how discriminative that is? Making a completely non-combat related event into different categories based on total levels? I also read that someone here in this forum suggesting that the rewards for lower level players to be different than the higher level players and less valuable. This will only make the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. If anything, lower level players/newbies should be the one that gets the expensive prizes because higher level players can earn gold easily and already have so many expensive stuff. Total levels doesn't say anything about how long you plays, it just shows how frequent you rebirth and level. When I was new, I stayed below ttl 300 for a while because I don't want to reset my level. You should be able to play mabi as you like, not get told on how you should play.

    But if you place limits and restrictions on yourself, you should be aware of the downside and not complain if something comes out that you can't do because of your own choices.
    BlissfulkillTwelie
  • HarukariHarukari
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    Who's looking forward to tomorrow?
    I'll wake up, get on and the wings will already be gone, cause everyone and their alts are gonna go nuts. (Joking obviously, but might not be the case for Alexina server..)
    Can't wait. :D
    Blissfulkill
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    edited March 28, 2018
    The instant prize rewards are already gated by merit, in a way. You get more instant coins through fighting for sneaky dev seals and fighting the trouble-makers, through cooking for the fattener quest, and through completing "enjoy the festia" quest every day. This all cannot be botted easily. The only instant-coin source that can be botted easily is the afk coin reward, which I think is a bad idea to have. Also, the instant prize gold spins should be limited to 1 per day.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    The instant prize rewards are already gated by merit, in a way. You get more instant coins through fighting for sneaky dev seals and fighting the trouble-makers, through cooking for the fattener quest, and through completing "enjoy the festia" quest every day. This all cannot be botted easily. The only instant-coin source that can be botted easily is the afk coin reward, which I think is a bad idea to have. Also, the instant prize gold spins should be limited to 1 per day.

    I suspect sheer number of alternates are used for the least effort in mind.

    They are not maximizing gains per account, but how many tries they'll get as quickly as possible. There is no real cost associated with an account.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    The instant prize rewards are already gated by merit, in a way. You get more instant coins through fighting for sneaky dev seals and fighting the trouble-makers, through cooking for the fattener quest, and through completing "enjoy the festia" quest every day. This all cannot be botted easily. The only instant-coin source that can be botted easily is the afk coin reward, which I think is a bad idea to have. Also, the instant prize gold spins should be limited to 1 per day.

    How is any of this hard?
    You just do all the cooking on one character and trade it all or just use the free moongate travel to make the dishes.
    The only thing slightly difficult would be the fighting but from what i heard the enemy only has like 500 hp so its easy.
  • MaiaMaia
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    a1c3809a5c.jpg
    lol so it begins. I'm surprised Ruairi isn't out of prizes yet
    Sherri
  • GretaGreta
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    edited March 29, 2018
    Logged in at 11:05 AM (Server Time) in Alexina and guess what? Coin entries on Festia Wings are all wiped out. But the most annoying part is the fact that i still dumped around 400 coins just a moment ago and did not even get #3 prize... This is ridiculous. I'm very sad and disappointed...
    Smh, when they end maintenance way too early and i wasn't expecting it to be back at least 30 minutes early...
    My efforts for logging in and farming coins were all in vain...
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    I slept 11 hours and missed my chance :L
  • MaiaMaia
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    Greta wrote: »
    Logged in at 11:05 AM (Server Time) in Alexina and guess what? Coin entries on Festia Wings are all wiped out. But the most annoying part is the fact that i still dumped around 400 coins just a moment ago and did not even get #3 prize... This is ridiculous. I'm very sad and disappointed...
    Smh, when they end maintenance way too early and i wasn't expecting it to be back at least 30 minutes early...

    Same though. On ruairi only 1 coin entry wing was gone by the time I started and with 400 coins I got 0 #3 prizes and out of 150 6th place boxes I got 0 homestead items
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    Opalthira wrote: »
    The instant prize rewards are already gated by merit, in a way. You get more instant coins through fighting for sneaky dev seals and fighting the trouble-makers, through cooking for the fattener quest, and through completing "enjoy the festia" quest every day. This all cannot be botted easily. The only instant-coin source that can be botted easily is the afk coin reward, which I think is a bad idea to have. Also, the instant prize gold spins should be limited to 1 per day.

    How is any of this hard?
    It's hard for a bot, not for a person. If someone takes the time to do all this stuff for all their alts, then they deserve all those chances at the instant prizes.