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Forced Rebirths, why?

DueFussDueFuss
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edited May 2, 2018 in Feedback and Suggestions
A few months ago I started playing Mabinogi again after being away from it for about 4 years. Found i had 5 new character cards to use and so created new characters. All were forced to rebirth before proceeding on in the game. Seemed odd to me, but no biggie at the time.

Just did the Missing Townfolk quest and was sent up to Nao after speaking to Trefor. There was no option to back out of the rebirthing process. -removed-. To not be rebirthed, i had to force a hard shutdown on the game. Couldn't cancel the rebirth, couldn't log out, couldn't end game.

What's going on? Why the need to make everyone rebirth? Yes there's benefits to rebirth, but it should be a choice. I know it shouldn't be a big deal, but what you're doing is really freaky.
THICCthighssavelives

Comments

  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,165
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    edited May 2, 2018
    Just rebirth, smh...

    -removed-

    BlissfulkillLeineiMizukiHayamaPrezzix
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,890
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    Isn't it to have people understand how to rebirth in the first place, via a walkthrough demonstration? This seems like the more feasible way to teach it. I am unsure of what your issue is other than seemingly being "Freedom and choice, woohoo!"

    Look, I love principles. I obey my set of carefully chosen scruples, but can we all dial back a bit, and realize that this does no harm?
    WolfandWolfMizukiHayamaTheNyanCatPrezzix
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,480
    Posts: 2,272
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    edited May 2, 2018
    DueFuss wrote: »
    A few months ago I started playing Mabinogi again after being away from it for about 4 years. Found i had 5 new character cards to use and so created new characters. All were forced to rebirth before proceeding on in the game. Seemed odd to me, but no biggie at the time.

    Just did the Missing Townfolk quest and was sent up to Nao after speaking to Trefor. There was no option to back out of the rebirthing process. -removed- To not be rebirthed, i had to force a hard shutdown on the game. Couldn't cancel the rebirth, couldn't log out, couldn't end game.

    What's going on? Why the need to make everyone rebirth? Yes there's benefits to rebirth, but it should be a choice. I know it shouldn't be a big deal, but what you're doing is really freaky.
    Isn't it to have people understand how to rebirth in the first place, via a walkthrough demonstration? This seems like the more feasible way to teach it. I am unsure of what your issue is other than seemingly being "Freedom and choice, woohoo!"

    Look, I love principles. I obey my set of carefully chosen scruples, but can we all dial back a bit, and realize that this does no harm?

    Yeah, OP is totally blowing it out of proportion -removed-.
    GretaWolfandWolf
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
    Posts: 786
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    edited May 2, 2018
    Leinei wrote: »
    DueFuss wrote: »
    A few months ago I started playing Mabinogi again after being away from it for about 4 years. Found i had 5 new character cards to use and so created new characters. All were forced to rebirth before proceeding on in the game. Seemed odd to me, but no biggie at the time.

    Just did the Missing Townfolk quest and was sent up to Nao after speaking to Trefor. There was no option to back out of the rebirthing process. -removed-. To not be rebirthed, i had to force a hard shutdown on the game. Couldn't cancel the rebirth, couldn't log out, couldn't end game.

    What's going on? Why the need to make everyone rebirth? Yes there's benefits to rebirth, but it should be a choice. I know it shouldn't be a big deal, but what you're doing is really freaky.
    Isn't it to have people understand how to rebirth in the first place, via a walkthrough demonstration? This seems like the more feasible way to teach it. I am unsure of what your issue is other than seemingly being "Freedom and choice, woohoo!"

    Look, I love principles. I obey my set of carefully chosen scruples, but can we all dial back a bit, and realize that this does no harm?

    Yeah, OP is totally blowing it out of proportion -removed-.

    I agree with the others here. Why is this a bad thing? -removed-

    One time I finished that quest on one of my many side characters, forgetting about the rebirth. This character had an Ace talent, you see. So I bemoaned the loss of it.

    But then the game gave me the talent for free (no, it was not a free talent rebirth week). So. Like. I got a free reset on this char's level and could keep getting Hero AP from it. :)

    It's a very beneficial quest. I don't see why we need to get rid of it. If it didn't give you back your free ace talent, then maybe I could understand. But it does.
    LeineiCarlize
  • FluoretteFluorette
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,835
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    edited May 2, 2018
    DueFuss wrote: »
    Why the need to make everyone rebirth? Yes there's benefits to rebirth, but it should be a choice.

    ^ This almost sounds like its supposed to be political...

    -removed-
    Leinei
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
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    edited May 2, 2018
    Forced rebirth doesn't come anywhere close to a tragedy. If anything, you get extra levels.

    It would be far more appropriate to compare this in-game mechanic to something else that is in the game.

    Like comparing it to all those frozen blasts that Arat Alchemists like to hit you with; both frozen blast and forced rebirth are minor inconveniences that force the character to freeze their progress temporarily. The only difference is that I can see no positive side to frozen blast (other than your character looks kind of cool while covered in ice, like a sculpture. I wish we had an ice crown that made your character's skin and clothes look all ice-y). It only took me like two seconds to think of the frozen blast comparison, so it's not like it's hard to think of non-real-life-tragedy examples to show your frustration.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    @WolfandWolf I'm assuming you're directing your comment to OP as opposed to strawberrydreams and me? =0
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,835
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    edited May 1, 2018
    Yes, let's all berate OP loudly and then point at the chaos we created ourselves as evidence that the thread should end. Just stay on topic and it'll all be fine.

    DueFuss, after you forced Mabi to end were you still in Nao's realm?

    Sometimes I feel the same way about forced Windows Updates. These devs know what they're doing. Check this out:
    DueFussBronzebreak
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
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    Leinei wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf I'm assuming you're directing your comment to OP as opposed to strawberrydreams and me? =0

    Oh yeah. I'm sorry ;~;
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,480
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    Leinei wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf I'm assuming you're directing your comment to OP as opposed to strawberrydreams and me? =0

    Oh yeah. I'm sorry ;~;

    Oh, it's all good. I was just asking for sake of clarification. XD
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,480
    Posts: 2,272
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    Yes, let's all berate OP loudly and then point at the chaos we created ourselves as evidence that the thread should end. Just stay on topic and it'll all be fine.

    DueFuss, after you forced Mabi to end were you still in Nao's realm?

    Sometimes I feel the same way about forced Windows Updates. These devs know what they're doing. Check this out:

    Regarding the Amazon Account Closing Issue, I feel that's also to benefit the user so they don't ACCIDENTALLY delete their account (and then have to spend time attempting to retrieve it, which could result in failure). It's a multi-step security that prevents that from happening. Then tagging on the involvement of an Amazon associate adds another layer to that security. I wouldn't be surprised if a code sent to the Amazon-linked e-mail or their phone number was also required to prove that the person requesting the closing of the account was actually the account holder themselves.
  • ShoogShoog
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    Thread has been cleaned up. If anymore issues come up then please contact or @ the forum moderators.
    WolfandWolfAmesenpai
  • ZuomoZuomo
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    They force a rebirth because some people cannot understand mabi, or the point of rebirthing. So now they hand hold you through understanding everything.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,835
    Posts: 790
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    edited May 2, 2018
    Leinei wrote: »
    that's also to benefit the user so they don't ACCIDENTALLY delete their account
    Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, is that you?

    Zuomo wrote: »
    They force a rebirth because some people cannot understand mabi, or the point of rebirthing. So now they hand hold you through understanding everything.
    You bring up an interesting point. When I first started, I didn't want to rebirth because I wasn't sure if I would lose stat points or equipment. (I didn't want to die either because of the same uncertainty) It was immensely confusing, even after my first consensual rebirth. I think if it were renamed "Reincarnation" it would at least convey the concept that I am simply taking another body. What I infer from "Rebirth" is that I am starting from nothing, naked, as the same being just returned to the very beginning of my existence. I made another suggestion thread to not hijack this one.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,480
    Posts: 2,272
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    edited May 3, 2018
    Leinei wrote: »
    Regarding the Amazon Account Closing Issue, I feel that's also to benefit the user so they don't ACCIDENTALLY delete their account (and then have to spend time attempting to retrieve it, which could result in failure). It's a multi-step security that prevents that from happening. Then tagging on the involvement of an Amazon associate adds another layer to that security. I wouldn't be surprised if a code sent to the Amazon-linked e-mail or their phone number was also required to prove that the person requesting the closing of the account was actually the account holder themselves.
    Leinei wrote: »
    that's also to benefit the user so they don't ACCIDENTALLY delete their account
    Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, is that you?

    Your reply makes no sense. I'm a CEO of Amazon (Is that a good or bad thing? You don't make that clear) just because I notice an upside to what you call an unsavory business practice? That people SHOULD have a barrier of security in the event of things like spiteful exes, kids playing on your computer and incidents where people might not be all there could cause trouble for your account? I've worked enough years in customer service to know that Murphy's Law exists in the weirdest of ways, and preventing headaches is a good business move for both the business and the consumer. I think they could stand to have a Live Chat button on their Help page as soon as someone clicks on it so they can assist from the start though. The fact they don't is a bit odd, especially if someone is having trouble purchasing something on their website and need the helping hand.

    Also, if you're going to quote me, use more than a snippet.



  • GremmGremm
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
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    edited May 3, 2018
    The rebirth system is an important option in the game that helps a player grow so the forced rebirth at the beginning is useful towards teaching new players how it works, but I agree that there should be an escape route or two for veterans that already knows how the rebirth works and don't want to do a rebirth again.
    (Imagine getting an ace character and then being forced to rebirth into a normal talent instead, that would've been a waste.)
    Daktaro
  • ZuomoZuomo
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
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    You bring up an interesting point. When I first started, I didn't want to rebirth because I wasn't sure if I would lose stat points or equipment. (I didn't want to die either because of the same uncertainty) It was immensely confusing, even after my first consensual rebirth. I think if it were renamed "Reincarnation" it would at least convey the concept that I am simply taking another body. What I infer from "Rebirth" is that I am starting from nothing, naked, as the same being just returned to the very beginning of my existence. I made another suggestion thread to not hijack this one.

    Yeah, rebirth is probably one of the hardest to explain parts of mabi. In my experience. Even now when they force it, people still have trouble understanding it as newbies.
  • DueFussDueFuss
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 44
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    "DueFuss, after you forced Mabi to end were you still in Nao's realm?"

    Thank you THIC, for the video, I'll talk about it on my next podcast.
    When i restarted after the hard shutdown, I was back with Trefor ready to take the next step without having been rebirthed.

    On this account, I have 8 characters. 7 have been rebirthed. My first has never been rebirthed and is currently 490 something years past 25. I would be devistated if she walked into a rebirthing trap and was unable to back out of it.

    All my other charcters, have been rebirthed several handfulls of times, including the one that encountered the rebirth trap in question.

    I've created a new account that has several extra character cards. I'm going to experiment and see if i can get some of them past the first rebirth trap. Though, I see that one a bit problematic since the game uses that first rebirth now to select your talent. Not sure how viable the game would be without a talent....

  • DueFussDueFuss
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    Greta wrote: »
    "Just rebirth, smh...

    -removed-"

    Not useful, doesn't answer the question of "why?' or "how to avoid it."

    Would be nice if the developers would explain their reasoning for not allow an out. But if it's one of those "Dark Patterns", well intentioned or not, they are not likely to answer as it would reveal their secret.
  • CarlizeCarlize
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    I see why it can be an issue if you're in an ace talent and don't want to lose it yet or something, but otherwise even if you wanted to stay under 1k for beginner benefits the one rebirth wouldn't hurt you. You can also uncheck the "reset age and level" button to only reset your talent during the rebirth. It does make sense that they do it though, there's certain things like getting into Festia that they don't allow until you've rebirthed once, and like people said it's mostly a tutorial. It's the last time you'll ever be forced to rebirth iirc so it might be annoying, but it's not indicative of the rest of the game.