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"Eweca is rising" - The source of mana in Erinn

EraleaEralea
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in Story Discussion
Recently I've asked a few people (all long-time players, not exactly noobs here) which moon is the source of mana in Erinn, and to my surprise, they all immediately respond the same thing: Ladeca, or the blue moon.

A quick glance at the wiki seems to confirm this - both the Glossary entry and the page on Ladeca state that Ladeca is the source of mana in Erinn.

I guess it makes sense that the blue moon is associated with blue mana, but there was something that bothered me about it. I couldn't remember why, but I always thought it was Eweca that gave us mana.

And then I saw it.

phlWUQ0.png

Of course this doesn't confirm anything. Maybe the phrase is just a poetic way of saying that night has fallen! We should ask someone more knowledgable.

DM4zAvL.png

hehe teacher called me a smart student
Okay, Lassar confirms that Eweca is the reason mana regenerates at night.


So where does the notion that Ladeca is the source of mana come from, then?
A look into the wiki page's edit history shows that the person who wrote that line used The Origin of Moon Gates as his source. Let's see what it says.
During the second war that happened in the field of Moitura, the Zavkiel the evil wizard used a spell that summoned the Moon Rock, which put eternal fear on the whole world.

It's the spell that involves dropping the Moon Rock of Ladeca, using the power of Eweca.

The translation of the names are a little inconsistent with the rest of Mabi's lore - this event that the text is referring to is the Second Battle of Mag Tuireadh (not Moitura), where the wizard Jabchiel (not Zavkiel) attempted to use his spell to drop Ladeca's moon rocks onto Erinn. Using the power of Eweca.
After the war, while the reconstruction of towns were in full force, the Druids discovered that the particles of Ladeca found in different places during the war contained unfathomable amounts of mana on each of them.

The scholars and druids then got together, wondering what to do with this amazing amount of Mana.

This, I think, is the source of the confusion. The moon rocks from Ladeca were saturated with mana.
After long hours, they came up with two solutions.

One, return these rocks back to Lameca. Using the mana laden in the Moon Rocks, a reverse spell could result in these rocks returning to where it came from by connecting the Moon Rock to another one far far away using the mana.

But this solution, based on the wish that people want to remove all kinds of references to the traitor Zavkiel and the war, was quickly shot down by the second solution that placed practicality on top.

By utilizing the power to distort the space and distance through the mana emitting from Moon Rock, the Moon Rock could actually transport humans and items to other places. An experienced wizard can simply use a spell to utilize the mana and transport items and humans to other places where the Moon Rock may be found.

Once the second solution gained traction, the wizards used teleport-like spells, utilizing the mana from the Moon Rock, to build what is now known as the Moon Gate.

It never actually says where the mana in the Ladeca rocks come from. I think, because of this, most people assume that Ladeca itself is the source of the mana emitting from those rocks.

But I disagree - I think Eweca's mana was transferred into Ladeca's moon rocks as part of Jabchiel's spell.
When the night falls, and the power of Eweca sweeps through town, the Moon Rock will connect with other Moon Rocks in the world, and people will able to teleport to other areas with no regard for time or distance.

Again, the book mentions that Eweca powers the magic that allows moon rocks to connect to other moon rocks. (It should be noted that this game feature was removed in favour of the convenience of 24/7 moongates.)
On the other hand, the book doesn't explicitly call the power of Eweca "mana", either.


What about the other lore books?

The Knight of Light has only one relevant sentence, but it says something else entirely:
Also, the corrupted sage Jabchiel began attacking certain regions of Erinn using the Eweca's Moon-Rock and the situation for the human race seemed bleak.

It suggests that the mana-saturated moon rocks come from Eweca instead, directly contradicting The Origin of Moon Gates. One thing to note is that neither book is actually in the game any more - for some reason, Aeira's Literature shop tab is missing. Maybe all the moon gate lore was retconned?


First Steps of Meditation correlates mana abundance with Eweca:
Mana is most abundant during the night when Eweca is in the sky.

Effective Meditation names Eweca aiding in mana absorption:
The main goal of meditation is for self-reflection, but it is equally important as a skill that allows you to recover MP by absorbing the Mana that is floating around in nature, without the aide of Eweca.

...

Most people already know that Mana is a special form of energy that forms this world. Usually provided by Eweca, every living organism in this world has at least some Mana, and it is notable for its ever-flowing nature like water, never staying in one place.



Are you one of the surprisingly large number of people who think mana comes from Ladeca? I would edit the wiki pages to correct them, but I don't want to get into an edit war with a passionate Ladeca-believer. (And I'm also locked out of my wiki account again but that's another story altogether)

Tangentially related: Are you one of the surprisingly large number people who think Eweca is blue?
SherriJazmynBronzebreakKedaruiLialinRosalina

Comments

  • LeiliciaLeilicia
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    I knew it was Eweca who gave us mana, but I did think Eweca was blue due to the eweca orbs in the cash shop. Found out Ladeca's the blue one.
  • SherriSherri
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    I always got them confused but yeah, Eweca is the pretty pink one and Ladeca is the pretty blue one. :3
    ...
    I got curious myself and looked up more information on Palala. What surprised me is what the wiki said;
    Palala: The name of the sun in Erinn, providing heat energy for mana tunnels to be activated during daytime.

    Mana tunnels are solar powered. :O
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Strictly speaking Eweca isn't the only source of mana in Erinn. Mana is everywhere in Erinn however, some places, objects and bodies have more mana than others. Mana tunnels are powered by the mana of the sun, Palala. If you're willing to dig around, it mentions that in ancient times, the levels of mana far exceeds that is seen in current days, mana was dense enough that enchantments could free transfer from one object to another and could do so without any outside forces influencing it. It is also said that when the mana density started dropping that enchantments had no choice but to stay fixed and reside objects permanently. For some context, enchantments operate by consuming the mana of the object it resides in (mana resides in literally everything in Erinn, air, soil, people, etc) to active its effects. The reason why enchantment scrolls expire is because the paper the enchantment is residing on does not have the mana to sustain the enchantment forever, so when the scroll expires, the enchantment "dies". In short mana exists as part of the world as oxygen does, you can concentrate it, consume it, or remove it.
    BronzebreakRosalina
  • EdethaEdetha
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    I'm pretty sure Palala doesn't produce Mana, it produces Erg, the other component of magic. Erg is lifeforce, the very power that prevents your soul from leaving your body. Mixing Erg with Mana to change the world is called Magic.

    Meanwhile the dark sun in the shadow realm, Luitalata, produces Noitir Arat.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    Maybe its like how the "plain, non-limited-time Gacha" is called the "Eweca Orb", despite it being colored to resemble Ladeca.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Erg is the term used to refer to life force and is inherent in all living things in Erinn. It is confirmed and stated that mana exists in all objects, not restricted to living things (The lore behind Enchantments supports this). Another thing of note is that the tunnels were constructed in ancient time by people whose history and records are lost to time. Its possible they had advance magic theories that found the sun to be a more suitable mana source than Eweca is, or that Eweca may not have existed at the time of the tunnel's construction. (For the record, Ice Spear is noted to be an invention of the ancient residents of Iria which shows that they do have knowledge in magic that Uladh mages did not.) Secondly, Ladeca is also known to contain large amounts of mana because moon pieces (explicitly stated to be used as weapons by an arch wizard and later converted to moon gates) are Ladeca in origin. So this shows that celestial bodies in Erinn contain vast amounts of mana which can be reasonably to apply to Palala as well.
  • EraleaEralea
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    According to the lore book, the Ladeca moon pieces that were used as Jabchiel's weapons were saturated with mana from Eweca.

    Imagine Ladeca as the bullet and Eweca as the gunpowder. Ladeca itself probably doesn't contain much mana, but it's a great big moon with great big rocks to use as projectiles. Eweca, the source of mana, is what was used to lift the rocks and throw them into Erinn.

    That's why Jabchiel's magic was actually pretty amazing. It would have been like an upscaled version of Meteor Strike. Moon Strike?

    Lassar has a few things to say about Erg as well.

    AuwPe.png

    She confirms that Mana is different from Erg, which comes from the sun.

    AuwXr.png

    AuwWR.png

    And then she says that Erg is a form of Mana, but cannot be turned back into Mana.

    I'm going to interpret this as the reason why MP can be transformed into HP (via healing magic), but HP cannot be transformed into MP. There's a book explaining healing magic that doesn't explicitly mention this "irreversible rule of mana" but it does cover the process of how it works.

    I don't know how to reconcile that last bit with the idea of Mana Tunnels being powered by Erg, though. Might be a case of G1 lore saying it shouldn't happen, but G4 lore changing that. Pretty sure that's not the only thing that got retconned in Mabi lore.
    Rosalina
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    I went back to the book "The Origin of Moon Gates" and found that the rocks were not charged by Eweca, but was simply obtained by utilizing Eweca's power to pull them down to Erinn. This means that Ladeca's mass inherently has massive amounts of mana in it. To simply put, you can say that Eweca is indeed the gunpowder, but the Ladeca pieces were explosive warheads. The skill meteor strike would be closer to an artillery strike while a Laedca stone drop would be closer to a nuke.
  • EraleaEralea
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    It's possible that Ladeca is saturated with mana, but it would have to behave differently from Eweca's mana somehow. It's as if one radiates mana, and the other doesn't.

    Because the NPCs and in-game text never say that both Eweca and Ladeca are the source of mana, just Eweca.

    There are other cases in Mabi where you saturate a non-magical item with mana to use it as a weapon. Mirage Missile works on this principle - the arrow itself doesn't have any inherent mana, but a magic user saturates it with mana to create the poison effect. This is why it makes more sense to me that the Ladeca moon rocks were saturated with mana from Eweca as part of the spell to use them as weapons.

    You don't have to agree, I'm just explaining my logic :p
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Well I've been looking at many different sources, and most of them state that Ladeca itself contains vast amounts of Mana that are not from Eweca. It can even be speculated that Eweca actually focuses Ladeca's mana so its effects are stronger in Erinn. Also it is confirmed that every object has inherent mana, larger and denser objects are implied to have more (from the book "Enchant, Another Mysterious Magic"). Furthermore, magic in Erinn works by manipulating the elementals found in all things, poison for example is a composite of different elements. So no, Eweca is not the only source of Mana within the world, other sources like their native sun and the Ladeca moon are also sources of mana. An interesting note on mana, Cichol calls it a cheap imitation of divine power which is said to affect space and time itself while mana can only affect matter and energy.
  • EraleaEralea
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    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Enchant,_Another_Mysterious_Magic

    Did you write the wrong book title, because I don't see anything in there that says larger and denser objects contain more mana.

    Mana is found in nature because Eweca fills the land with mana. Mana herbs contain lots of mana, for example, but afaik they aren't any denser or larger than any other herb...

    I also think that if manmade items like arrows had inherent mana in them, then Castanea would instruct you to use that mana instead of telling you to imbue your own mana into the arrow. If anything, they might contain a small amount of mana, not enough to be of any actual use.

    I did find a bunch of other stuff though.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/A_Guidebook_on_Firebolt
    However, there is a way to make fire using the power of Mana, which is found in Eweca.

    Why doesn't it say mana is found in Ladeca?


    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/The_First_Steps_of_Meditation
    Mana is most abundant during the night when Eweca is in the sky. Outside of this, Mana is hard to recover. What you need is Rest. If you rest, you decrease the amount of Mana being used and increase the Mana that is restored by nature. However, in order to do this, you have to minimize the body's movements, and the ordinary way of resting does not do this. You can make a campfire, which helps a little bit, but it still is not very effective.

    What can you do to recover Mana faster when there is no Eweca? This is where meditation comes in handy.

    Why doesn't it say mana is most abundant when Ladeca is in the sky?


    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Effective_Meditation
    The main goal of meditation is for self-reflection, but it is equally important as a skill that allows you to recover MP by absorbing the Mana that is floating around in nature, without the aide of Eweca.

    Why does it specify Eweca and not Ladeca?


    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Records_of_the_Bangor_Seal_Stone_Investigation
    After pondering the whole day, I thought about the story you told me when I was young, about that man who aimed his bow at the Eweca. I set up my research towards the Eweca and measured the magic energy.

    To be fair this is a confusing story and I don't even know why measuring magic energy from Eweca helps him figure out the Seal Stone.

    But anyway, the real question is:
    Why don't any of the in-game texts directly acknowledge Ladeca as a source of mana? Even Lassar only names Eweca in her lessons. If it was true that Ladeca contained mana, it would be easy for them to say that mana comes from "both Eweca and Ladeca". But it never says this anywhere. Why?

    Also, someone already pointed out the Palala only provides Erg, which according to the magic lessons is a form of mana but not mana itself. There are screenshots of in-game text a few posts back that say this. This is not a problem because many books and NPCs do acknowledge that Palala is the source of Erg. The problem is that they never recognise Ladeca as a source of Mana.

    So with that in mind, can you post your in-game sources that specifically say Ladeca contains mana that doesn't involve Eweca in any way? Preferably ones I didn't already refute in my OP, because I want to read new and convincing stuff please.
  • DraechDraech
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    edited May 28, 2018
    I've got to warn you, I haven't been playing this game for very long (2 years), and anything before that is stuff I'm not aware of. Also, I still have to finish G12, which might contain relevant info. But here's my take on Mana, Erg and the moons.

    Mana can, for all intents and purposes, be considered a fluid like water. In this, I mean that it is found in (almost) everything, to varying degrees. Eweca, acting like the moon, forces Mana to rise from the land, thus allowing Milletians to regenerate their MP by absorbing the magic energy and retaining it much like a sponge. This energy can still be found, to a lesser degree, during the day; as such, mana does not vanish during daytime, but rather its scarceness makes it nearly absent, much like how nights are often more humid that days.

    Erg, for its part, is akin to energy. This energy is produced through the expenditure of mana to create an effect, often a spell. As such, this corroborates with Lassar's "While Mana can be transformed into Erg, Erg cannot be transformed into Mana." Energy cannot create matter, but matter can be converted into energy (as is the case with nuclear energy). This also means that Palala produces energy, or Erg (which, in my opinion, makes more sense than "Palala produces 'Lifeforce'.")

    As for Ladeca, my best guess is it acts much like a sponge, where it absorbs and retains Mana in immense volume. If too much Mana is absorbed, the excess leaks back out, hence why there might be references to Ladeca's Mana out there. And Moon Gates are powered not by Eweca's Mana, but rather by the Mana accumulated in the Ladeca chunks that serve as their cores.

    To extrapolate even further, this might justify why Moon Gates worked only at night in the beginning, but now work 24/7:
    If a sponge is wet yet not soaked, it is harder to extract water from it.
    However, if it is soaked, a simple press releases much of the water it held.
    As such, the time difference between G1 and whenever the Moon Gates were changed has allowed the Ladeca cores of the Moon Gates to absorb enough Mana to function during the day, and still refill during nighttime.

    Of course, this is naught but some noob's hypothesis, but I believe it's a decent one nonetheless.

    Edit: Even more crazy talk: considering most magic animations (Inspiration, Mana Shield) and the MP bar are blue, we can assume Mana is as well. As such, Ladeca is blue merely because it retains Mana, and Eweca is not because it does not directly interact with Mana, but rather forces it to rise from its source, the ground (the greatest amount of matter there is).
  • EraleaEralea
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    Draech wrote: »
    Mana can, for all intents and purposes, be considered a fluid like water. In this, I mean that it is found in (almost) everything, to varying degrees. Eweca, acting like the moon, forces Mana to rise from the land, thus allowing Milletians to regenerate their MP by absorbing the magic energy and retaining it much like a sponge.

    New THAT's a convincing one, and an theory I can get behind. It's like Eweca gravitationally pulls out Mana from the ground and Ladeca, rather than emitting Mana directly. I like it, it's more interesting that way :D

    It doesn't match up with the Firebolt book that says Mana is found in Eweca but eh the books all have different wording anyway.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    edited May 29, 2018
    Again, I stated before that mana is found in all objects, all of the quotes you find support that Eweca is a booster rather than the be all and end all of mana. Also dense objects having more mana is extrapolated from the fact that enchantments are stored on paper, and it explicitly states that they expire because the enchantment is consuming the mana of the paper. This means that for the enchantment to exist the object it resides on MUST contain mana. Furthermore I recall bits of lore about Ladeca from some NPC and generation dialog, but I'm having trouble finding the transcripts, though I remember most of them occurring from the older versions of Chapter 1.

    One thing you should note is that Ladeca follows the same phases as our real life moon, implying that it is extremely far away while Eweca is "locked" in a much closer orbit so the effects would be stronger. Furthermore, mana and magic are stated to be a force of nature by mages in story line and do not state that its all solely from Eweca. Then there's the Palala, Eweca, and Ladeca spell books which heavily implies that these celestial bodies do affect mana in some form or another. It is also worth noting that Mana, magic, and ancient magic isn't entirely understood in-game either, but to state that Eweca is the source of all mana is narrow minded. Additionally, its never stated that Ladeca fragments charged or absorbed mana from Eweca. It should be worth noting that Moon gates used to key in to a specific gate at a time implying a relation to the phases of Ladeca when it appears at night.
  • EraleaEralea
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    edited May 29, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Also dense objects having more mana is extrapolated from the fact that enchantments are stored on paper, and it explicitly states that they expire because the enchantment is consuming the mana of the paper. This means that for the enchantment to exist the object it resides on MUST contain mana.

    Okay... see, I have two options here. I can believe you, who won't even post direct quotes or screenshots from the game. Or I can believe what's written in the game, which, even though parts of it is questionably translated, is actually canon.

    So the density thing isn't actually in the book, and you've made an assumption. Okay, that's fine, but you need to say clearly that you have a fan theory if you can't provide citations.

    Enchantments consuming mana is in the book, so I agree that's canon.
    I'd like to hear your theory for why enchanted objects don't expire, even after a long time.
    You see, I have this skimpy thing that has had these enchants on them for years.

    Avpu4.png

    It's not very large or dense, so I'm wondering why the enchants haven't consumed all the innate mana inside it and caused it to expire yet.

    This is the only part that doesn't make sense to me, so it would help a lot if you could clear that up.



    I've developed a new fan theory, too, and I hope you'll read it because I can actually provide a citation for my fan theory:
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/The_Knight_of_Light_Lugh,_The_Hero_of_Mag_Tuireadh
    The strength of the Fomors during that time was unparalleled in history, and despite the heroics of Nuadha, it seemed impossible to even put a dent in their army. Also, the corrupted sage Jabchiel began attacking certain regions of Erinn using the Eweca's Moon-Rock and the situation for the human race seemed bleak.

    My new fan theory is this: The moon rocks come from Eweca. Says so right there!
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    edited June 13, 2018
    Eralea wrote: »
    I've developed a new fan theory, too, and I hope you'll read it because I can actually provide a citation for my fan theory:
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/The_Knight_of_Light_Lugh,_The_Hero_of_Mag_Tuireadh
    The strength of the Fomors during that time was unparalleled in history, and despite the heroics of Nuadha, it seemed impossible to even put a dent in their army. Also, the corrupted sage Jabchiel began attacking certain regions of Erinn using the Eweca's Moon-Rock and the situation for the human race seemed bleak.

    My new fan theory is this: The moon rocks come from Eweca. Says so right there!

    There used to monster miss naming like Demi Lich being Demi Rich and Ersa being referred to as a male in G2 (old G2, not the revamped one).

    So you're saying that a two piece swim suit is less dense and has less materials than a piece of paper. Plus, you haven't proposed an alternative to why enchants expire on paper and not on other objects.

    Also, I'm on my break at work when I wrote this, but here, I'll give you quotes:

    From Origin of the Moon Gates: https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/The_Origin_of_Moon_Gates
    Druids discovered that the particles of Ladeca found in different places during the war contained unfathomable amounts of mana on each of them.

    The book never stated that Eweca charged, imbued, or saturated the fragments with mana. Only that it was used to DROP them on to the planet and this caused mass devastation. You ASSUMED and extrapolated that Eweca did it, using a similar deduction to me when I said that perhaps it is because objects we enchant items on to are dense/larger than the paper used to contain them. Lassar in the lessons state that mana can only be recovered during the night, however mana can and does recover doing the day as well, but at a much MUCH slower rate. So would that statement be false? Segregation? Or willful ignorance?

    Next is from a recap: https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Mabinogi_Storyline_Recap
    If the Sun of Erinn (Palala) is the origin of power for Magic, then Luitalata is the Black Sun that gives power to Alchemy.

    So there, Palala is also a source of magic as well. So no, Eweca is not the ONLY source of mana in Erinn, other sources exist as well, and it just so happens that Eweca is the biggest provider to the planet that Erinn is based on. Mana in a later section is noted to be Erg's basic form, so using extrapolation, we can assume that Palala either converts mana from another source into Erg, OR it converts some of its own mana into Erg. Fair enough? Probably not to you.

    Creation Lore: https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Understanding_Elementals
    The power that sustains the universe, Erg...long ago, before Erg was formed, Mana, which was its basic form, controlled the flow and speed of Erg. Under the power of Erg and the law of Mana, our world is made of up many different elements.

    Mana existed as a primal force of nature, controlling and and transforming into life energy (Erg). Basically if you say that Eweca is the source of all Mana, then literally the ENTIRE universe is powered by Eweca alone and the mana you so adamantly state is the ONLY source of.

    As I mentioned, before, Eweca is certainly 1 (ONE, pounced "wən") source of mana in the world. There are other sources each with varying effects but they are still there, providing the world with energy in one form or another, be it powering magic, alchemy, or the very life force that that runs through everything. Or you can stick to your guns and stubbornly cling that only Eweca is the source of mana, ignoring bits of lore through out mabi, conversations from NPCs during Gen missions, and other books. But here, since you wanted quotes so much.

    You should also consider looking at how you came up with your own theories before you start attacking other people's come up with their's. You should also check my language, since I use words like speculated, implied, etc when I put my interpretations in. Since you also thought, extrapolated, and assumed, your explanations are as valid as mine.

    Edit: Also its been stated multiple times that Erg cannot be turned back into mana. Yet the Mana tunnels (Sun gates) which are explicitly stated to be powered by the sun (by your admission provides ONLY Erg) produces tons of mana when you stand near it that it recharges even more than you can recharge at night. Can you explain that one, oh, and please cite your sources, and provide quotes, no theories please. Since you don't like me doing that.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Classes_and_Training#Basic_Sorcery_Chapter_One
    While Mana can be transformed into Erg, Erg cannot be transformed into Mana. That is the irreversible rule of Mana.
  • EraleaEralea
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    LOL
    That was worth it hahahah


    If you still don't understand why I brought up the Lugh book (as I did in my OP), it was to point out that the lore books actually have conflicting information, so there's really no reason for anyone to treat either Lugh or Origin as bibles here.

    Also (as I already said in my OP), neither book is actually buyable in the game any more, and neither is the Enchant book, for that matter. It's quite possible that Devcat erased a good portion of the old lore (like I already said in my OP), so you're free to come up with whatever fan theories you want to fill in the gaps, but don't get so upset when people question them lol.

    GTCvActium wrote: »
    The book never stated that Eweca charged, imbued, or saturated the fragments with mana. Only that it was used to DROP them on to the planet and this caused mass devastation. You ASSUMED and extrapolated that Eweca did it...

    I never said that. I made the argument that you have to imbue objects with mana in order to use them as a weapon, because that's how our magic projectiles (e.g. Mirage Missile and Crash Shot) work. I also made the argument that Jabchiel, a very strong mage, did this process to the moon rocks using mana from Eweca, because Lassar and the books that still exist in the game clearly state that mages use mana from Eweca, and I have quoted all of those above.

    ... And I definitely never said that "Eweca did it" LOL

    GTCvActium wrote: »
    So you're saying that a two piece swim suit is less dense and has less materials than a piece of paper.

    I never said that, either, just that it wasn't very dense in general, so how can it contain such a huge amount of mana for holding onto an enchant indefinitely? Remember the density thing is your theory, not mine, so it's up to you to explain it, not me.

    Personally, I like the Enchant book and do want to accept it as canon even though it's been removed from Aeira's shop. Maybe it was removed for the inconsistencies, particularly the part where enchants consume mana.

    GTCvActium wrote: »
    So no, Eweca is not the ONLY source of mana in Erinn, other sources exist as well, and it just so happens that Eweca is the biggest provider to the planet that Erinn is based on.
    ...
    Basically if you say that Eweca is the source of all Mana, then literally the ENTIRE universe is powered by Eweca alone and the mana you so adamantly state is the ONLY source of.

    Aaand I never said that Eweca is the only source of all mana, either... and that's such a silly thing to assume lmao.

    I've noticed a pattern of you wrongly assuming what other people's arguments are, and attacking those arguments instead. I'm going to be nice this time and give you the benefit of the doubt and not accuse you of deliberately making straw man arguments, because it seems that you have a geniune misunderstanding of my stance.

    To clear things up for you, my theory is that Eweca is the source of mana for Erinn the same way that the sun is the source of light and heat for Earth. The sun is obviously not the only source of all light and heat in the universe, but the other sources are negligible from our point of view.
    Mana has always existed as a force, but Eweca in particular causes it to appear in greater abundance for some reason.
    Whether that reason is my theory (Eweca radiates mana directly) or something like Draech's theory (Eweca pulls out existing mana from somewhere else) is up for people to decide since there's no official word on it.

    The reason I made this thread is because a surprising number of people think that Ladeca is this source of mana, even though the lore only names Eweca specifically when talking about mana.


    Anyway, given that those two books were removed from Aeira's store, it's very possible that none of moon gate or mana tunnel lore in them is canon any more (especially not after they were revamped).

    But one thing remains:

    phlWUQ0.png

    This message appears every 36 minutes in the game for the past 10 years and it has never been removed.
    It doesn't say "Ladeca".
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    ... And I definitely never said that "Eweca did it" LOL
    Eweca's mana was transferred into Ladeca's moon rocks as part of Jabchiel's spell.
    Because the NPCs and in-game text never say that both Eweca and Ladeca are the source of mana, just Eweca.


    Yes you did. Plus I've constantly argued that mana has come from different sources and that Ladeca having some influence is not out of place within the lore of the story. Eweca has the largest influence for recharging Mana during the night, but there are examples of mages grabbing mana from other sources. One of the biggest ones is mana tunnels, and mediation is described as uniting one's mana with nature's to regain it. The fact remains that Ladeca fragments contain unfathomable amounts of Mana and that there is no statement saying that this is not their natural state.

    Also my initial statement was to add that there are actually other sources of mana and that Eweca is the one that has the largest effect. There have been numerous NPC dialog in generations (particularly the older dialog) where a deep discussion into Mana is made, about its nature and relation to the world. (Cichol calls it a cheap imitation of the power gods possess).

    And no, its not worth it, feels like it was a waste of time trying to add in some extra lore for discussion here.

  • EraleaEralea
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    Eweca's mana was transferred into Ladeca's moon rocks as part of Jabchiel's spell.

    As part of Jabchiel's spell. Jabchiel did it, not "Eweca did it". Perhaps you don't know who Jabchiel is, maybe?

    Because the NPCs and in-game text never say that both Eweca and Ladeca are the source of mana, just Eweca.

    Do you even understand what I'm trying to say here? I'm trying to point out that the text never says Ladeca. You like to read things that aren't there, and refuse to see what IS actually written right in front of your face.


    The whole point of this thread was Eweca vs Ladeca as the primary source of nighttime mana. That's it. All this talk about Erg and Palala and enchanting and high-density objects having more inherent mana is just derailing the topic.

    It's very hard to discuss lore with someone who constantly misreads things and accuses people of saying things they never said. But I'd say that it's worth it simply because it made me realise that you have some very strange (and frankly hilarious) ideas about what you're arguing against.

  • WeepingJesterWeepingJester
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    Well, When I first saw the moon gates open I did wonder how that happened. When Eweca came up, the moon gates could be used. From that I assumed that the fragments were recharged from it. I agree, I think that Eweca is definitely the primary source.


    - Long thought spiel, so feel free to ignore this-

    It seems from my understanding that the wizard harnessed Ewecas energy using a spell to explode Ladeca. The fragments fell. They were so hot, they burned whatever they landed on- this could mean two things. Items that gather/absorb energy causes heat; if I remember right, when there is too much energy, the rest forms heat which causes the object to get hot, explaining how the fragments set things on fire. Or, the material is special in that it heated up into it's core from falling in the atmosphere, which meteorites from cold space don't do because the fall is too fast.

    Energy has the forms of waves and vibrations, bouncing and gathering off and into surfaces.
    Whatever is taken from Eweca goes through Ladeca where the energy may have been changed into the version of what is in the Mana gates. Take note that only those in Iria are the only ones you can recharge your mana with. Why is this? Is it due to the type of stones used for the gates? hmm.

    This is interesting to think about. In order to obtain the same energy and handle it, I think it makes sense if they are of the same material, or elements (possibly of different mix ratios) We can look to physics to see how objects absorb energy. We can assume, Ladeca does contain some of it's own Mana, its just very weak where it's there but the influence/ effect of Eweca is stronger.
    Is it not a celestial body like Eweca? If it's only Eweca that has this specific energy, there must be something unique about it.