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What the heck is wrong with this game progression?

Nakano15Nakano15
Post: 1
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
Seriously? What kind of balancing this game has in progression?
I'm following a mission, everything is all easy peasy, when I reach the end of the
dungeon to face the boss, BAM, the boss is way too tough compared to all
monsters in the dungeon itself!And no, It's not "Challenging tough", but
Unfairly tough, If It can't insta kill the char, it has some resistence and can
kill the character in 2~3 hits on the same combo.

What the heck is this? Is this done on purpose so high level bored players find
themselves useful, and help the new players against unfair fights? So instead of a
fun or challenging gameplay, we get either a unfair (solo) or cheap (with help of highby
player) fights. Or we are just forced to play the game on the boring way, where the
helping player kills everything and we gather the loot.

Please check that damn difficulty on your game dungeons, It burns down my
patience to the drain.

Wait, don't check only the dungeons, there are some quests that also have unfair
status issues, like that quest from Abb Neagh, of helping that girl Enn, the two
missions were all easy, the third was the problem, the boss had weak melee attacks,
when it casted a skill, were either Deadly or Death instantly. And the best part is that
the mission is solo by what I saw.

The skills status also doesn't seems really balanced, If they even matter with the level,
because the Lightning the boss were casting were dealing a considerable damage, but the
Meteor and Fire Breath attacks were dealing a very unfair damage.

Damn, if you guys don't know how to balance a game, go play some other games to
get some ideas, then use what you learned on this game to make a balanced progression
of difficulty, because this is UNFAIR.

Comments

  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,660
    Posts: 1,704
    Member
    edited May 30, 2018
    You must be new here. Unfortunately, the game either gets harder or easier as your total level adds up.
    Pick skills that you want to rank up, and grind those. Then, you wanna build up your stamina with crafting skills.
    After that, you rank up magic skills for more mana, and combat for HP and other stats.
    The higher your talent is ranked, the more bonus stats you unlock.
    YangKoete
  • FluoretteFluorette
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,840
    Posts: 815
    Member
    I never did understand why Morrighan thought it'd be a good idea to pit the pre-total level 200 Milletian(s) against Glas Ghaibhleann or the Cromm Cruaich (that can each one-shot you) and then expect them to win.

    Sad to say, this feels close to true especially in the case of new players. The game doesn't really tell you anything about strategies to defeating bosses or warn you about the steep rise in difficulty when approaching them, yet it somehow expects you to defeat these bosses that are leagues tougher. It feels like you either have to train hard before starting most of the story missions as a new player, which doesn't seem ideal for a story-driven MMO, or as you stated, have a higher level player kill the boss for them, which also takes the fun out of the mission. I'm not sure if the current devs would even know how to approach this issue considering its been like this for a while.

    Or maybe there's something I'm missing here that makes the boss fights more tolerable as a new player. I wouldn't know as it's not my area of expertise. =(
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 943
    Member
    The only thing i can really think of thats unfair is the cromm fight.
    Even hitting him for like 20k a swing makes me wonder how you are supposed to even survive long enough to do 30k damage to kill him.

    Otherwise resort to these tactics.
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Solo_Battle_Tactics
    BronzebreakSherri
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    The only thing i can really think of thats unfair is the cromm fight.
    Even hitting him for like 20k a swing makes me wonder how you are supposed to even survive long enough to do 30k damage to kill him.

    Otherwise resort to these tactics.
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Solo_Battle_Tactics

    Yeah I think the whole 'back to basics' thing is something that should definitely be more often required, even just doing the Dan test for Chain Slash I realized how much I was just relying on 1HKO-ing stuff, rather than strategically fighting.
    scienceguy2
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
    Member
    edited May 31, 2018
    What the heck is wrong with these forums today? So many newbie users are attacking poor game with server merges, transfers, etc and now THIS wall of text. All i see are complaints.
    Jesus Christ, did you all came back for G21? You are two weeks early if that's the case.
    YangKoeteUtsuro_Bune
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    The problem is that beginners are far stronger now than they were when those generations came out. They get a sense that ramming into the enemies at full force will work in all situations. Due to all the updates, and the vast majority of skills being offensive, players rarely, if ever, use defensive strategies. When players are finally faced with something that is a challenge, it becomes annoying to face. Many players don't know that using defense with a shield lowers dmg by a fixed %. Small shields reduce 50% on top of their stat boosts during defense, medium shields do 70% and large shields (giant only) do 100%. You can actually block all of thunder's strikes with defense which paired with a medium shield will reduce the dmg by 70%, even the final bolt won't break it so once you tanked the damage you can cancel the skill and proceed with an attack. There are also the magic shield skills you can get if you prefer 2h weapons or don't have a chance to switch weapons. They can reduce magical elemental damage up to 50% if you're alone and 100% if you have someone using the shield with you.

    Further more, most boss moves can be dodged, dragon meteor for example can be dodge by moving behind them when they fly above, breath attacks are done when the dragon is reeling back.

    In short, there are many ways of combating things far stronger than you other than running face first into them. The exceptions are bosses meant to deal with high end players, who have the gear, skills, and experience to combat them successfully.
    AeolysLokitinBlissfulkillSherriForeRuniaTHICCthighssaveliveslilblkroseAykazmieUtsuro_Bunescienceguy2
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,440
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    Aren't players supposed to team up against Glas and Cromm? O_o
    AeolysGretaSherriBlissfulkillMisanaria
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
    Posts: 469
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Once upon a time, we used teamwork. We also prepped for battles; we had to make due with HP30 potions! Throughout dungeons like G1 or G3 final, we fight smarter, not harder. We focused on surviving. We used campfires to heal. We used campfires to do more archery damage. We used campfires to avoid fireballs. We worked hard for success, for our Goddess enchantment, for our Obsidian enchantment, for the completionist inside us to say "we beat G1/3!".

    This was also the time when archery was the bee's knees so... yea, times have changed a lot.
    GTCvActiumSherriBlissfulkillAykazmieUtsuro_Bunescienceguy2Naii
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Once upon a time, we used teamwork. We also prepped for battles; we had to make due with HP30 potions! Throughout dungeons like G1 or G3 final, we fight smarter, not harder. We focused on surviving. We used campfires to heal. We used campfires to do more archery damage. We used campfires to avoid fireballs. We worked hard for success, for our Goddess enchantment, for our Obsidian enchantment, for the completionist inside us to say "we beat G1/3!".

    This was also the time when archery was the bee's knees so... yea, times have changed a lot.

    Mostly because of the way combat works now and the relative power of beginners vs beginner mobs, people quickly adjust to wanting to solo content. As I'm fond of telling people, the tutorial we have now was never around for the older players, who used G1 as the tutorial. Thinking back the original G1 taught players many skills and tools needed to play the game properly, like diversifying skill sets among the party and how to co-operate using these different roles. They also taught players to figure out strategies and use them to give them an edge against an overwhelming powerful boss. I know many people that did G1 together became friends that often ran content together. But those days are gone because of the shift in player mentality.
    SherriBlissfulkillAykazmieUtsuro_Bune
  • nomigid15nomigid15
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,870
    Posts: 247
    Member
    I feel like another problem is that enough have already done those quests that it becomes difficult to find people that you can party with, as not everyone likes repeating old content.

    (At least, I always had trouble finding anyone to party with me.)
    SherriUtsuro_Bune
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,175
    Posts: 266
    Member
    I think it's also the case of far too many people expecting to be able to do everything instantly. Mabi's a lot about prepping stuff. =w='
    SherriMizukiHayama
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
    Member
    Nakano15 wrote: »
    Wait, don't check only the dungeons, there are some quests that also have unfair
    status issues, like that quest from Abb Neagh, of helping that girl Enn, the two
    missions were all easy, the third was the problem, the boss had weak melee attacks,
    when it casted a skill, were either Deadly or Death instantly. And the best part is that
    the mission is solo by what I saw.

    I uh....had my archery skills ranging from rank A-5(a few were still F because I was lazy with them), half of chain skills were rank A or lower, nothing else at that time, and I could solo the third one no problem. Took an incredibly long time, but it was all in learning the moves the boss did and playing around that. The spells may instakill you, but you have so much time to react that it's almost inexcusable if it does hit. There's also plenty of items in-game that can help you if you're confident that ranking more skills won't help.
  • ZuomoZuomo
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
    Posts: 150
    Member
    Mabi can be seen as game about the journey and not the destination. It doesn't expect you to just rush through the stories ( though It's possible to solo them at low ttls without issue, that still takes some kind of knowledge or skill in gameplay) It's about getting stronger, becoming more skillful and knowledgeable. Which makes a huge difference.

    In the end, they were still meant for multiple, lowish level players. (Anyone in the ks should be able to goomba stomp these scrubs) So more or less the weird power scaling, it's more the fault of killing off the more social parts of the game and natural decay of the population.

    As said with the game becoming more easy, players want to solo more, and don't learn as much. Back in the day the game was a lot more punishing, and you did not have as many tricks, Also not to mention rebirthing also took significantly longer, so being strong also came from knowing the mechanics well. Nowadays, some 1ks are worse then say even some ttl 100 people i knew back then.
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
    Posts: 469
    Member
    edited June 2, 2018
    Zuomo wrote: »
    As said with the game becoming more easy, players want to solo more, and don't learn as much. Back in the day the game was a lot more punishing, and you did not have as many tricks, Also not to mention rebirthing also took significantly longer, so being strong also came from knowing the mechanics well. Nowadays, some 1ks are worse then say even some ttl 100 people i knew back then.

    And to make the game more difficult today for the current End-Game folks, they add Advanced Heavy Stander to mobs, instant death abilities, truck-fist trash mobs, unavoidable multiaggro, and more nonsense that no player(s) can deal with smartly and effectively, usually causing players to either: hide in a far corner and pick monsters off one by one slowly, attempt to hit everything hard and revive-spam because mobs just chew through defensive measures or become so overpowered that the player has to kill everything stupid-fast before the mobs can kill them (@#$% reforges) or exploit a super-specific exploit to cheese it.
  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,245
    Posts: 319
    Member
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Zuomo wrote: »
    As said with the game becoming more easy, players want to solo more, and don't learn as much. Back in the day the game was a lot more punishing, and you did not have as many tricks, Also not to mention rebirthing also took significantly longer, so being strong also came from knowing the mechanics well. Nowadays, some 1ks are worse then say even some ttl 100 people i knew back then.

    And to make the game more difficult today for the current End-Game folks, they add Advanced Heavy Stander to mobs, instant death abilities, truck-fist trash mobs, unavoidable multiaggro, and more nonsense that no player(s) can deal with smartly and effectively, usually causing players to either: hide in a far corner and pick monsters off one by one slowly, attempt to hit everything hard and revive-spam because mobs just chew through defensive measures or become so overpowered that the player has to kill everything stupid-fast before the mobs can kill them (@#$% reforges) or exploit a super-specific exploit to cheese it.

    Just use Divine Link.
  • ZuomoZuomo
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
    Posts: 150
    Member
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Zuomo wrote: »
    As said with the game becoming more easy, players want to solo more, and don't learn as much. Back in the day the game was a lot more punishing, and you did not have as many tricks, Also not to mention rebirthing also took significantly longer, so being strong also came from knowing the mechanics well. Nowadays, some 1ks are worse then say even some ttl 100 people i knew back then.

    And to make the game more difficult today for the current End-Game folks, they add Advanced Heavy Stander to mobs, instant death abilities, truck-fist trash mobs, unavoidable multiaggro, and more nonsense that no player(s) can deal with smartly and effectively, usually causing players to either: hide in a far corner and pick monsters off one by one slowly, attempt to hit everything hard and revive-spam because mobs just chew through defensive measures or become so overpowered that the player has to kill everything stupid-fast before the mobs can kill them (@#$% reforges) or exploit a super-specific exploit to cheese it.

    Sadly not difficult. It's basically false difficulty. Just megabuff something so people think its difficult ( For some reason alot of games do this nowadays).They really need to work on their "Destination" or end game content, to make it more entertaining for the god tier players lol. Instead of just giving the more options to make themselves even more godly ( and make lower level players stronger, faster.) I can see why some 10k+ quit. (I for one love the game and just would keep playing, but not everyone can deal with how stale it can get.)
    Danievictria
  • DingigraphiDingigraphi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,935
    Posts: 96
    Member
    edited June 3, 2018
    If you think something is too hard you need to be very Glad you didnt play in 2008. G1 Required you to have friends and Powerful Friends at that. it was pretty challenging to even complete Ciar so imagine the Generation QuestChains. Game progression is actually very very easy now days But it still does have those parts that require you to make a few friends or you will struggle if you are not high and strong enough
    !
    Aykazmie
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    After everything, I think beginners are given a power rush that lasts much too long. When a bump comes along they don't know how to deal with it properly. For the record, adv stander mobs have existed for a very long time, but players in the old days figured out ways to deal with them through team work and strategies. The problem is that beginners are taught that overpowering an enemy is the best and only way to do things. (Beginners now are far stronger than early gen beginners). There is also the disconnect between the gens (which by design and convention are tutorials) which are solo, and actual content, which is designed for team play. The idea that someone can solo a particular set of content is because they were already overwhelming stronger than that content's particular recommended difficulty. If you're in a dungeon or shadow mission where the enemies are too tanky for you to take out effectively on your own, then you need to bring friends, because you ARE at the recommend difficulty, its just that the mission was not designed to be solo AT the recommended level for it.

    Each mechanic, from the instant aggro, to the unstunnable mobs can have a team and solo element to work against. Solo tactics require the player to be well versed and vastly stronger while team elements needs you to reply on your buddies so you can specialize and abuse your strength while your buddies cover you weaknesses. So go make some friends and run things, its fun and you get a sense of accomplishment.
  • PinepawPinepaw
    Mabinogi Rep: 300
    Posts: 2
    Member
    I don't have much to add,but I'm going through this post laughing about the truth in the "back in my day" responses. I've been playing since the 5th anniversary. I can tell you that you new players have it much easier than they would have a few years ago. I saw what I wanted, practically lived in dungeons,and I'm still not as strong as I would like to be. If you work at it,the hardest dungeons you can think of will be a breeze. Listen to advice from older players and it won't seen so bad.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,565
    Posts: 201
    Member
    You guys think G1 and G3 are tough? Jeez... You're going to rage quit when you hit G19-G24 (Maybe not G20, since most of it is "survive until the game says you win"). Unavoidable attacks, insta-kill moves, and unfair advantages for pretty much the entirety of those generations. What you face now is nothing.

    Though yeah... It is expected that you bring a party of at least three people. Back when I did G1 (I didn't do it for a long time so it was after G10 that I finally got around to it), I watched someone one-shot Glas with a spear of light. It was a sight. There are people out there willing to help. I suggest using the altruist system to find someone who can join you if you're doing the G1 or G3 finals. There are people out there that can probably oneshot Glas and Cromm easily. The dungeons are pretty hard for newbies. I had a lot of trouble in Albey dungeon (the alternate world one) especially against the gargoyles. So I understand, but you do eventually grow to a point where they become complete chumps if you stick with it and train your character enough (These days I laugh at gargoyles... Well... Except for the ones in Rabbie Phantasm. Those guys can go die in a fire.)