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Comments

  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,870
    Posts: 445
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It really does. Getting a few extra bone dragons did nothing at all to hurt the player base, it didn't even hurt the game at all. Yet purposly killing players, causing them to loose time on potions and blessing water, is actually harming players. Are they going to get the time back on those potions? No. Are they going to get the Holy water for free, without paying or doing the parttime job? No.

    ...what? Pretty sure botting in even the broader perspective significantly outweighs summoned creatures from knocking someones martinis over.
    ZephyrmaruIyasenuSherri
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    Sebastian wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It really does. Getting a few extra bone dragons did nothing at all to hurt the player base, it didn't even hurt the game at all. Yet purposly killing players, causing them to loose time on potions and blessing water, is actually harming players. Are they going to get the time back on those potions? No. Are they going to get the Holy water for free, without paying or doing the parttime job? No.

    ...what? Pretty sure botting in even the broader perspective significantly outweighs summoned creatures from knocking someones martinis over.

    200_d.gif
    SebastianMizukiHayama
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Sebastian wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It really does. Getting a few extra bone dragons did nothing at all to hurt the player base, it didn't even hurt the game at all. Yet purposly killing players, causing them to loose time on potions and blessing water, is actually harming players. Are they going to get the time back on those potions? No. Are they going to get the Holy water for free, without paying or doing the parttime job? No.

    ...what? Pretty sure botting in even the broader perspective significantly outweighs summoned creatures from knocking someones martinis over.

    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.

  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Thread subject: Opps I summoned raid monsters. is that ethically right or not? I don't know!
    This thread is clearly related to event abuse: they're practically the same subjects, after all.
    /s
    GretaHellkaizer
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,870
    Posts: 445
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.

    Except it was causing harm to the GAME. Bots cause harm to the GAME. It's not a healthy thing to have a game infested with bots. If you think that basically free buffs and holy water outweigh the health of the game, what are you thinking?
    Iyasenu
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It really does. Getting a few extra bone dragons did nothing at all to hurt the player base, it didn't even hurt the game at all. Yet purposly killing players, causing them to loose time on potions and blessing water, is actually harming players. Are they going to get the time back on those potions? No. Are they going to get the Holy water for free, without paying or doing the parttime job? No.

    ...what? Pretty sure botting in even the broader perspective significantly outweighs summoned creatures from knocking someones martinis over.

    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.

    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.
    IyasenuBerryswirl
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.

    It is not hypocritical unless you cite "It is the rules", to which it is the person using the ToS to strengthen their argument, while their character completely undermines their proposed rationale.

    Whether or not it is against the ToS is something I do not quite care about, nor do I think it is something Froglord should have any punitive repercussion by Nexon for doing for now; instead, I will just condemn it as being a jerk, and move on.

    Just because someone is against another, doesn't mean they believe that ramifications via a sanctified code is the way to go, because I do not think every instance of "being a jerk" is by nature something that should be included in the ToS.
    GretaBuffalosRadiant Dawn
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    This is glorious emergent gameplay. Beautiful, really.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    It really does. Getting a few extra bone dragons did nothing at all to hurt the player base, it didn't even hurt the game at all. Yet purposly killing players, causing them to loose time on potions and blessing water, is actually harming players. Are they going to get the time back on those potions? No. Are they going to get the Holy water for free, without paying or doing the parttime job? No.

    ...what? Pretty sure botting in even the broader perspective significantly outweighs summoned creatures from knocking someones martinis over.

    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.

    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.

    I don't support people using bots at all. It may come off as I do from how I am wording my posts, but I'm using that as an example. It really is just hypocritical when it comes down to it.
    GretaZephyrmaruTwelie
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.

    It is not hypocritical unless you cite "It is the rules", to which it is the person using the ToS to strengthen their argument, while their character completely undermines their proposed rationale.

    Whether or not it is against the ToS is something I do not quite care about, nor do I think it is something Froglord should have any punitive repercussion by Nexon for doing for now; instead, I will just condemn it as being a jerk, and move on.

    Just because someone is against another, doesn't mean they believe that ramifications via a sanctified code is the way to go, because I do not think every instance of "being a jerk" is by nature something that should be included in the ToS.

    What you and I may think means nothing though, as far as Nexon is concerned. ToS is literally the radar in which they can or will nuke people. They will try not to go outside of it because outrage, and (normally) will try to enforce the inside of it so people can be more assured when they promote or financially support their game.

    We can argue viewpoints about if a joke is funny or in bad taste, and no matter the outcome our agreed opinion shouldn't affect someone else's account. But Nexon I don't think is going to seek out people's rationale when it bleeps on their radar. They either strike or they don't, and ToS is a fundamental part of that process. Doesn't matter if we morally think "being a jerk" or "exploiting events" deserve punishment, in the end Nexon and the ToS are the only things that we are going to be able to cite.
    SebastianGreta
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.

    It is not hypocritical unless you cite "It is the rules", to which it is the person using the ToS to strengthen their argument, while their character completely undermines their proposed rationale.

    Whether or not it is against the ToS is something I do not quite care about, nor do I think it is something Froglord should have any punitive repercussion by Nexon for doing for now; instead, I will just condemn it as being a jerk, and move on.

    Just because someone is against another, doesn't mean they believe that ramifications via a sanctified code is the way to go, because I do not think every instance of "being a jerk" is by nature something that should be included in the ToS.

    What you and I may think means nothing though, as far as Nexon is concerned. ToS is literally the radar in which they can or will nuke people. They will try not to go outside of it because outrage, and (normally) will try to enforce the inside of it so people can be more assured when they promote or financially support their game.

    We can argue viewpoints about if a joke is funny or in bad taste, and no matter the outcome our agreed opinion shouldn't affect someone else's account. But Nexon I don't think is going to seek out people's rationale when it bleeps on their radar. They either strike or they don't, and ToS is a fundamental part of that process. Doesn't matter if we morally think "being a jerk" or "exploiting events" deserve punishment, in the end Nexon and the ToS are the only things that we are going to be able to cite.

    Here's the issue I have with the argument; where exactly does the ToS state about this issue? On that line of logic, I do not think the ToS argument is a good argument, because I do not see a line forbidding Froglord to do such an action.

    To me, it is comparing apples to oranges.

    Rather, I would state that this practice greatly inconveniences players on a massive scale, who should not have to feel responsible to circumvent someone else's actions, as my reasoning for opposing it. Essentially, this is a basic moral dislike from me, nothing more or less.

    My latter line is there to clarify that just because we deem something wrong, doesn't amount to us thinking it should be punishable in such a manner.
    Berryswirl
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Kill me while I'm AFK once, I'm mad.
    Kill me twice, how could you?
    Kill me three times, you're officially that guy.

    ~Link removed; language in video.~


    But really, if you do care about Meditation Potion time, then AFK elsewhere for the time being.
    Also don't AFK in a party other people can join freely.
    They might have crab pets who'll bubble you and disrupt your meditating.
    Being griefed by hard-hitting field bosses is one thing, but don't get griefed by a little crab pet. That'd just be silly.

    Although, you really shouldn't care too much about meditation potion usage efficiency. They're not very worthwhile when they're the strongest variant, and Martinis aren't even the strongest.

    Also, blessings are easily reacquired, barring Ego blessings, so definitely don't AFK in "dangerous" areas with your Ego equipped if you aren't gonna be around to hear an attack happening.
    If it's just regular blessings, try to take it in stride.
    SebastianMizukiHayama
  • PromesteinPromestein
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,185
    Posts: 91
    Member
    Dragons deserve relaxation too.
    SebastianIyasenuBlissfulkillBerryswirlRadiant Dawn
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Problem with your logic is the thing you said earlier, that it's hypocritical to support or condemn one and not the other. Both are things a player can do atm, and both are against ToS(one's obviously against ToS, other's Griefing). Both cause harm to the community; one however is funny, and the other's peachy if you're the one benefiting from it.

    All okay or none of it is. And imo none of it is, though we are all going to secretly snicker the first time one appears lol...then curse the 8 blessings we lose immediately after.

    It is not hypocritical unless you cite "It is the rules", to which it is the person using the ToS to strengthen their argument, while their character completely undermines their proposed rationale.

    Whether or not it is against the ToS is something I do not quite care about, nor do I think it is something Froglord should have any punitive repercussion by Nexon for doing for now; instead, I will just condemn it as being a jerk, and move on.

    Just because someone is against another, doesn't mean they believe that ramifications via a sanctified code is the way to go, because I do not think every instance of "being a jerk" is by nature something that should be included in the ToS.

    What you and I may think means nothing though, as far as Nexon is concerned. ToS is literally the radar in which they can or will nuke people. They will try not to go outside of it because outrage, and (normally) will try to enforce the inside of it so people can be more assured when they promote or financially support their game.

    We can argue viewpoints about if a joke is funny or in bad taste, and no matter the outcome our agreed opinion shouldn't affect someone else's account. But Nexon I don't think is going to seek out people's rationale when it bleeps on their radar. They either strike or they don't, and ToS is a fundamental part of that process. Doesn't matter if we morally think "being a jerk" or "exploiting events" deserve punishment, in the end Nexon and the ToS are the only things that we are going to be able to cite.

    Here's the issue I have with the argument; where exactly does the ToS state about this issue? On that line of logic, I do not think the ToS argument is a good argument, because I do not see a line forbidding Froglord to do such an action.

    To me, it is comparing apples to oranges.

    Rather, I would state that this practice greatly inconveniences players on a massive scale, who should not have to feel responsible to circumvent someone else's actions, as my reasoning for opposing it. Essentially, this is a basic moral dislike from me, nothing more or less.

    My latter line is there to clarify that just because we deem something wrong, doesn't amount to us thinking it should be punishable in such a manner.

    The fun thing about the ToS, is if it even remotely sounds like something that's bad it is vague enough to give them swinging room. It's worded in a way that if it becomes enough of an issue that it appears on Nexon's radar, they will smite him over it. ToS will always be a good argument because it is the only forseeable guideline we can predict Nexon with, other than word of mouth from an employee. And griefing has gotten people smited before, so there's that as well.

    That last line just reinforces what I said earlier; My opinion nor your opinion on this matter when it comes to punishment. Nexon and ToS are the law there.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »

    The fun thing about the ToS, is if it even remotely sounds like something that's bad it is vague enough to give them swinging room. It's worded in a way that if it becomes enough of an issue that it appears on Nexon's radar, they will smite him over it. ToS will always be a good argument because it is the only forseeable guideline we can predict Nexon with, other than word of mouth from an employee. And griefing has gotten people smited before, so there's that as well.

    That last line just reinforces what I said earlier; My opinion nor your opinion on this matter when it comes to punishment. Nexon and ToS are the law there.

    The ToS simply give Nexon free reign to ban on whatever reason they see fit, only restrained by a sense of moral decency and more by business acumen. That is a given.

    However, I am discussing using it as a means to impugn someone's character or to call action against them, since their interpretation of what is and isn't doesn't necessarily translates to Nexon or ours own. What we may define as hypocritical may not translate to theirs. Which leads me to believe that wishing to enforce the ToS doesn't conflict with their practice, necessarily. More importantly, not everyone who decries Froglord thinks he should be on the receiving end of a banhammer.

    While I know Nexon doesn't particularly care, that isn't my point.

    Hypocrisy depends on the reasoning that clarify distinction between actions, as well as what we deem self servingly contradictory in the first place.

    This is me clarifying my opinion and putting forth a viewpoint that some others may share, because I am arguing an alternative means to state Froglord is a jerk. I don't agree with the ToS argument, because it seemingly reeks of ad hominem, and doesn't quite contest whether or not it should be bannable and enunciated as such in the ToS, or "wrong".

    I am stating it is wrong, because it inconveniences players who hold no responsibility for this; the culpability falling squarely on individuals like Froglord.
    Greta
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,157
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Look if there is something you can do in-game, you can do it. If they don't want us to do it, they will patch it. So as it stands, you're just going to have to deal with it. Besides...I'm sure those players only have so many of those summoning urns left. (You can only hope kek!)

    All this has devolved into is social justice warrior bs. How much longer is this text book going to go? You want something done, submit a ticket. Send a message to a GM if you think this really warrants some action. Then THEY will decide on the matter what course of actions to take.

    Till then surf's up!
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
    Posts: 564
    Member
    FayeKaiba wrote: »


    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.

    The thing is, the person who was suggesting doing this:

    1. Posted a warning
    2. Backed down when she realized she was going to ruin people's meditation potions by doing so.

    Honestly, I think this whole thread is moot at this point.

    That said....other games have GMs randomly visiting player areas and summoning monsters for players to defeat. Kinda wish they'd do that in Mabi now and then.
    BuffalosBerryswirlRadiant Dawn
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,157
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Policroma wrote: »
    FayeKaiba wrote: »


    Did you just ignore the fact that I mentioned people have no way of getting back that EXP lost from the potions? And that they lost blessings. Yes doing a Part time job is easy, but why should they have too all because of someone who is using items in a malicious intent. It's also called Griefing.
    One thing caused no harm to players, and people went in an uproar
    One thing is causing harm to players and people are supporting it.
    That said....other games have GMs randomly visiting player areas and summoning monsters for players to defeat. Kinda wish they'd do that in Mabi now and then.

    They used to here. But I guess they are too busy for that anymore.
    Promestein
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,020
    Posts: 337
    Member
    edited July 22, 2018

    (recorded shortly after making thread)

    Idk about you guys, but it sure livens up the party when a lich appears.

    These drone afk events can get pretty boring without a distraction.
    Teases wrote: »
    whelp.jpg

    Pressing "F" to pay respects.


    ...Then Chunchunmaru who visited during the OX event appeared shortly after..
    giphy.gif
    IyasenuPromesteinvioletkittBerryswirlRadiant Dawn
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Froglord wrote: »
    ...Then Chunchunmaru who visited during the OX event appeared shortly after..
    I need my glasses in the morning cause all I saw was Chon Chon. How could this sweet boy ruin an OX event?
    iXY6R78.png