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Can we not immediately scream for nerfs?

Comments

  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,295
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    -

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related. The title gives more time in divinity (Which is good for ranking the skill, something high end players want to do because well... it's new and not ranked.) It gives more crusader exp (Which has very limited ways to increase the exp you can get, another reason a higher tier player would wear it) and since it gives max damage that's okayish there's no real reason to switch off of it. Blood master is a better title that's better in terms of damage, and I've carried people through peaca abyss so they have a good title to start with (with their permission of course, some people want the challenge of beating it for themselves)

    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.
    fennixfox
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,800
    Posts: 2,821
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Something that'd make the super-regenerating Doppel a bit more fair, would be if this fight had its own versions of those... Seal Scroll thingies from the G1 fight with Glas Ghaibhleann.

    Those things caused all your attacks to have 100% wound, even if they were things that never wound, like Magic, or Windmill.
    It probably wouldn't have been hard to make the doppel clones drop junk like those seal scrolls and firewood like Glas' Gargoyles did.

    If your only way of dealing decent damage was magic, then you didn't have very high single-target DPS magic like Casting Speed 20 chaincast Ego Fire Wand or something, then even a slight lull in DPS, such as getting attacked and stunned, or running away to hit orbs, gave the boss enough time to heal quite a bit.

    Which is why skillsets with wounding attacks was the big way to go.

    Then again, magic was always kinda shafted during Alban Knights storyline.
    I can remember that Pennar fight in G19.
    Darn his lv3 Mana Deflector.
    fennixfoxFOXAssassin
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Alrighty, after a few days worth of grinding out mats for more potions and other supplies:
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »

    (That's...not asking much for a finale showdown. You can get like 20 stones a day if you really wanna try. 2 day's prep for a boss? Oldie G3 Final took more prep)

    Someone's misread something, I said ONE FIGHT, this isn't a final showdown against a boss, this is first enemy period, full stop. Which is telling me I'm more than likely going to need much more than that by the time the 4? 5? Next fights rear their inflated heads
    (No one said that. buddy. Planning and getting used to the fight =/= cheese. Though did you try barrier spikes?)

    No, because teleports and attacks that bypass level geometry aren't stopped by barrier spikes, and seeing as how hiding behind pillars did absolutely no good hiding behind a barrier spikes will not work either. Simple as that.
    (4 hours, 8 hours...same thing. Still clearing content at race car speeds.)

    Again 8 hours ONE FIGHT, that's frigid snail pace compared to every, and I mean EVERY other generation boss combined. That's taking a brand new new account and completing peaca abyss time
    (That's putting words in my mouth. Player guides will be up long before wiki, and wiki's important. Don't bash them.)

    Doesn't change the fact that player guides and wiki contributors are always late. And that's IF they decide to do anything, there's still quite a few pages on wiki that are little more than "this is a page that exists" and is left as is
    (Again, you're putting words in people's mouths. Also, assuming people who clear it are nolifers/p2win, classy. It's only a nerd when they're better than me, eh?)

    I've said nothing of the a sort, I've no qualms with nerds. It's whales that pretend their the majority of players, and their holier than thou attitude that I've fundamental problems with. Someone who frequently blows $200+ on cash shop items should not expect the same output as a casual player, who at most buys an average of 5-10 gacha a month if that
    For instance on a previous page someone listed their bow was reforged for extended range, what are the odds that person got the desired effect on the first reforge tool? I've reforged several bows, and never seen a range increase even appear. While my own luck may be subjective at best, and absolutely irrelevant at worst it shows precedence that not just everyone can even get such a reforge through casual means
    The problem arises when such people haughtily expect others to either have as much luck, free time, or funding as they do by sole merit that they have it regardless of earning it or not. And by extension you can also add internet connectivity, hardware, and physical capability to those variables. Of course a ten year old work rig could always run as well as a brand new alienware, but chances are it doesn't
    (I've seen new players beat the dungeons post-revamp. The key is not going in alone anymore, and forcing teamplay with other beginners.)

    And such methods would work, granted they were implemented at the correct time. The dungeon revamp however was not.
    Its ridiculous to "balance" a dungeon for two new players to act in tandem if there are so few new players that they are forced to ask much more powerful characters to carry them through what was previously a perfectly fine training ground tailored specifically for fresh accounts, but as it stands, you can stand around Tir and make note if you like, you will be lucky if even a single new player shows up. The majority being either bot or alt nowadays.
    To further exacerbate this, the maximum allowed party members for even Alby dungeon was reduced from 8 players to 4, really says alot about your theorised enforcement of team play now doesn't it?
    (Personal opinions aren't objective facts. What you're trying to say is you think hard content is fine until it overpowers people. Then it's just dumb to a lot of people who don't wanna go the distance when they're already close to home plate. Which is 100% fair and a valid opinion. In fact, that opinion I can agree on somewhat. Still not a fact though, and the more veteran battlenogis are going to enjoy that 11th hour dash to the finish line that leaves most in the dust for awile.)

    I never stated my opinion as factual, and there IS a clear difference between challenging, 11th hour scrambles and simply unfair
    A Dark Souls boss can be challenging
    That very same boss but you're playing a deprived character, lvl 1, and using broken sword playing on a guitar hero controller with your feet I'd say is an eleven in difficulty
    Unfair would be a every bonfire being a mimic. on top of everything else
    There is a laundry list of problems but an abridged version would be:
    Hit detection in this questline is extremely deceptive, from Tagar attacking with twice the apparent range of her animation, to Talvish's Reaper Scythe attack hitting a 180 degree cone to his front as well as a small distance behind him, (Whether reasons are latency issues, lag, or even sluggish hardware it's not representative of a players skill or lack thereof, but something outside of the players control)
    Cannot re-establish a divine link with your highest level pet, simply because it's a cloud. (Circumstantial, but indeed crippling)
    Crisis Escape, Play Dead, and Elf Hide do not drop his aggro, he will not only continue his current attack animations even post relocation, but will continue to initiate new attacks on you as if you hadn't used the skills at all
    Requires more than two HP 300 potions to recover from one attack when a single potion requires moderate tailoring and synthesis, on top of the obvious skill in potion making, if gathering the materials yourself can and will take the greater portion of a weeks worth of prep time, and can and most likely WILL be burned through in a matter of moments (Such is where I'm currently situated at this point in time) compounded that nobody in game sells such potions, whether NPC or player. (And yes I DID have a large supply from the previous potion fishing event, and YES those are all gone, including the extra HP 300's gained by fragmenting the Stamina ones)
    I cannot really say a certain phrase apparently, so I will just say this. There are people who went in with less prep then you, less ttlv then you, less gear then you, and still won. Are they mad lads, or is there something to it? Who knows. : )

    And I've commented on just such a person in a previous post when a similar argument was provided

    Take a spin down the entirety of the tarlach server, and you'll only find a handful of people with 'The new divinity' title, oddly enough, those same few are the only ones on the server to also have obtained Phantasm Breaker titles as well

    To those claiming this is the culmination of TWENTY generations, your dead wrong, there are several generations that can be done outside of the gen1, gen 2 gen 3 progression, for instance, my first completed generation was Shamala/Nightmare on the week I started the game, and I've completed G19 and G20 on fresh characters using only the Lorna balloon and beginner stones to get past the largest hurdle through both, G19's pre-divine skills Girg fight. As seeing as how you can still access these quests with an EXTREMELY underdeveloped character its more accurate to say that g21 is the culmination of NOT the full previous twenty generations, but just the culmination of the Divine Knights storyline

    For those claiming early Gen bosses were "brutal" as well, your not entirely wrong, but there is a fundamental difference. With the few combat styles that were available to you in G1 the chances are you have at least one of a selection of skills that will assist you, as well as teammates to back you up and cover for any weaknesses your character may have (Which is good in both design and practices!)
    These bosses are all forced solo (despite a literal section of one being dedicated to "Regrouping and calling more allies") and simply reading through page after page shows a CLEAR methodology of either have these particular set of skills or particular equipments or you have very little chance of success which smothers any player agency in lieu of an enforced meta. Basically saying that any character that doesn't fit a particular cookie cutter approach "isn't trying hard enough" Which should be abhorrent to something that heralds itself as among the most expressive MMO out there
    For instance:
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Tagar:
    Used mana shield ran around the pillar till it showed up hit the pillar once it came down on her.
    Did that one more time. Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Golem:
    Used hide walked up and hit the switch mission ended.
    (I even turned off hide and the golem just passively spun in circles and didnt attack)
    Doppleganger:
    Used mana shield and divine link.
    Killed all the clones. Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Talvish:
    I was honestly surprised how weak he was.
    Just ran away everytime he casted something took no damage.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Very much fair and balanced, and despite not caring for this chapter at all g21 was decent enough story wise.

    Comically ironic, yes, but does help show that heavy reliance on chaincasted firebolts, spamming magnum shot with range reforges, abusing I-frames with anchor rush and lots of cheesing with Hydra Transmutation is showing to be the chief strategy.
    However at least there's a small selection other than previous generations meta being distilled to Life Drain and your done.

    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.

    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    *inserted Dark Souls meme*

    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.

    As for you complaining about people beating it using x skill sets and x strategies
    "DONT TELL ME TO CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE"
    :v
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 48,785
    Posts: 7,480
    Member
    ...don't forget to praise the sun.
  • NinzerkerNinzerker
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 70
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    You did not just necro something from like two weeks ago...

    I'm not even gonna bother reading that, man. I just...holy cow that was 10 pages ago. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast and this was still bothering you?

    Admittedly, I forgot to refresh the page, however as was said, it was an entire week gathering potion making materials, the tab was still open and only showed 5 pages, had a bit to read after realising
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    Great, wonderful. Care to explain where the extra 7k damage is coming from on Talvish? Cause I hit 22k with L-Rod crits, yet on Talvish it maxes out at only 6.5k, or 0.06% of his health. BUT that is ultimately besides the point. The amount of damage one is able to inflict has never been the real issue that causing everyone such greif. And only relevant to some because they wanted to slap a time limit on EVERY fight limiting them to a race to who can deal DPS fast enough. Personally I don't care if I'm dealing 0.04% per crit or even 0.004% as long as the boss follows it's own rules.
    No complaints about the doppleganger, it was clearly intended to be a long fought war of attrition, and it is!
    No complaints about Talvish's Spike or Blade attacks, he clearly states his intention before using them, and offers ample time to move away, granted your not autoattacking.
    Where at least MY complaints start are the attacks with ridiculous hitboxes
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips
    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.

    Never said they were wrong or lying, simply saying the techniques or equipment they use might not be applicable to everyone, for instance, my r1 magnum shot hits 4k, which is dealing 1k on these bosses, which while for one person may be all they need, personally I can deal faster and more consistent dps with regular attack spam
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.


    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.

    Wow, classic "it wasn't even that hard" hyperbole, should be reputed with "a pics or it didn't happen" retort, but I've always found the troll dance a bit silly.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    It's almost like your trying to say that I DON'T take my time to learn a boss' tells animations and attack patterns in one sentence, and in the next sentence criticising that I took the time to thoroughly scout the boss.
    I'd love to see someone do it on their first try without scouting.
    And yet the only reason I'm still not at the Tagar fight today, is because I strong armed the fight, ignored any and everything I'd learned about the boss, and just tanked everything with soul stones. Which should not be necessary.
    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.
    900+ int, chain cast +4 fire wand upgraded and reforged, and only crits 4k
    While not impossible, I doubt a noob will be any closer to max Int, let alone be near that damage output unless using ALO Asuna or another of the +50 magic attack titles
    Ever consider that maaaybe being sub 1k total makes a few things easier?
    BlissfulkillTwelie
  • RiddleTricksterRiddleTrickster
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,585
    Posts: 70
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.


    Yeah this is one of those things that need to be tweaked a bit. However, running under his legs to the back will help you dodge it as with the other bosses we faced in part 1.

    They upped it this gen, requiring consistent dps (not in bursts like fighter) and timing. For tagar, when I knew she was going to go into the ground I made sure to be at the pillar and tried to already start hitting it because I know she was after me. By the time she was out of the ground, she would get hit albeit me missing a few times, we only needed three I think. Afterward, I bashed, smacked, and shot her with my arrows.

    What level are you? I'm lvl 570 something total, it was a bit of a effort. I just needed to strategize a bit more. The worst for me was the dopple...that was terrible. If you ignored killing the minions and hitting the orbs, it would have been impossible depending on your wounding skill set. You could have as much naos and mp shield as much as you want, as you wittle it down a few points at a time after regen. You would run out of time. The golem was nothing with the use of hide, I passed it on the first go easily due to the prompt.

    Also for Talvish, thank goodness it did not require us to bring him down to zero health.
    violetkitt
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,900
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.

    My sides... :D
    spamellaHellkaizerImaizumi
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,900
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    It may have used a broader level range to separate difficulty, to which may nullify some of Opalthira's point, as they're not actually under level 1k. You can seize a sizeable amount of AP by staying under it and reaping the benefits of Journal AP. If level scaling works for under level 1k at least, then it makes sense why Tagar took off 300 Mana Shields per hit and why they got around 100.

    Because our difficulties were vastly different in terms of stats.

    Which is essentially a level 5k doing a level 1k fight. I know for certain G19 scales so that people under 1k have it much easier.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    You did not just necro something from like two weeks ago...

    I'm not even gonna bother reading that, man. I just...holy cow that was 10 pages ago. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast and this was still bothering you?

    Admittedly, I forgot to refresh the page, however as was said, it was an entire week gathering potion making materials, the tab was still open and only showed 5 pages, had a bit to read after realising
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    Great, wonderful. Care to explain where the extra 7k damage is coming from on Talvish? Cause I hit 22k with L-Rod crits, yet on Talvish it maxes out at only 6.5k, or 0.06% of his health. BUT that is ultimately besides the point. The amount of damage one is able to inflict has never been the real issue that causing everyone such greif. And only relevant to some because they wanted to slap a time limit on EVERY fight limiting them to a race to who can deal DPS fast enough. Personally I don't care if I'm dealing 0.04% per crit or even 0.004% as long as the boss follows it's own rules.
    No complaints about the doppleganger, it was clearly intended to be a long fought war of attrition, and it is!
    No complaints about Talvish's Spike or Blade attacks, he clearly states his intention before using them, and offers ample time to move away, granted your not autoattacking.
    Where at least MY complaints start are the attacks with ridiculous hitboxes
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips
    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.

    Never said they were wrong or lying, simply saying the techniques or equipment they use might not be applicable to everyone, for instance, my r1 magnum shot hits 4k, which is dealing 1k on these bosses, which while for one person may be all they need, personally I can deal faster and more consistent dps with regular attack spam
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.


    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.

    Wow, classic "it wasn't even that hard" hyperbole, should be reputed with "a pics or it didn't happen" retort, but I've always found the troll dance a bit silly.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    It's almost like your trying to say that I DON'T take my time to learn a boss' tells animations and attack patterns in one sentence, and in the next sentence criticising that I took the time to thoroughly scout the boss.
    I'd love to see someone do it on their first try without scouting.
    And yet the only reason I'm still not at the Tagar fight today, is because I strong armed the fight, ignored any and everything I'd learned about the boss, and just tanked everything with soul stones. Which should not be necessary.
    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.
    900+ int, chain cast +4 fire wand upgraded and reforged, and only crits 4k
    While not impossible, I doubt a noob will be any closer to max Int, let alone be near that damage output unless using ALO Asuna or another of the +50 magic attack titles
    Ever consider that maaaybe being sub 1k total makes a few things easier?

    I have already stated before I did everything on the first try.
    This was simply because I exploited hides mechanics and watched them fight with a pet.

    As for Talvish he's got like 10 seconds telegraphed attacks and not like Enemies in this game have collision so you can just run through his attacks.
    That dual scythe move you complain about have a bigger attack range of like 90 degrees you can just run past him to avoid.
    Everything else if you just WALK away does zero damage to you.

    Then again replying to you is just a waste of time because you seem to take criticism and advice with a grain of salt.

    Last time I checked total level doesn't affect boss mechanics.
    Alshian
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,900
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    edited July 21, 2018
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    You did not just necro something from like two weeks ago...

    I'm not even gonna bother reading that, man. I just...holy cow that was 10 pages ago. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast and this was still bothering you?

    Admittedly, I forgot to refresh the page, however as was said, it was an entire week gathering potion making materials, the tab was still open and only showed 5 pages, had a bit to read after realising
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    Great, wonderful. Care to explain where the extra 7k damage is coming from on Talvish? Cause I hit 22k with L-Rod crits, yet on Talvish it maxes out at only 6.5k, or 0.06% of his health. BUT that is ultimately besides the point. The amount of damage one is able to inflict has never been the real issue that causing everyone such greif. And only relevant to some because they wanted to slap a time limit on EVERY fight limiting them to a race to who can deal DPS fast enough. Personally I don't care if I'm dealing 0.04% per crit or even 0.004% as long as the boss follows it's own rules.
    No complaints about the doppleganger, it was clearly intended to be a long fought war of attrition, and it is!
    No complaints about Talvish's Spike or Blade attacks, he clearly states his intention before using them, and offers ample time to move away, granted your not autoattacking.
    Where at least MY complaints start are the attacks with ridiculous hitboxes
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips
    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.

    Never said they were wrong or lying, simply saying the techniques or equipment they use might not be applicable to everyone, for instance, my r1 magnum shot hits 4k, which is dealing 1k on these bosses, which while for one person may be all they need, personally I can deal faster and more consistent dps with regular attack spam
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.


    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.

    Wow, classic "it wasn't even that hard" hyperbole, should be reputed with "a pics or it didn't happen" retort, but I've always found the troll dance a bit silly.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    It's almost like your trying to say that I DON'T take my time to learn a boss' tells animations and attack patterns in one sentence, and in the next sentence criticising that I took the time to thoroughly scout the boss.
    I'd love to see someone do it on their first try without scouting.
    And yet the only reason I'm still not at the Tagar fight today, is because I strong armed the fight, ignored any and everything I'd learned about the boss, and just tanked everything with soul stones. Which should not be necessary.
    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.
    900+ int, chain cast +4 fire wand upgraded and reforged, and only crits 4k
    While not impossible, I doubt a noob will be any closer to max Int, let alone be near that damage output unless using ALO Asuna or another of the +50 magic attack titles
    Ever consider that maaaybe being sub 1k total makes a few things easier?

    I have already stated before I did everything on the first try.
    This was simply because I exploited hides mechanics and watched them fight with a pet.

    As for Talvish he's got like 10 seconds telegraphed attacks and not like Enemies in this game have collision so you can just run through his attacks.
    That dual scythe move you complain about have a bigger attack range of like 90 degrees you can just run past him to avoid.
    Everything else if you just WALK away does zero damage to you.

    Then again replying to you is just a waste of time because you seem to take criticism and advice with a grain of salt.

    Last time I checked total level doesn't affect boss mechanics.

    Stats are one measure of such; having a boss plink 1s versus 1,000,000 HP aren't just numbers. It is the difference between Metal Slug and Super Mario Brothers, and one of the reasons why previous generations are easier than ever; because they allow people to ignore mechanics, as it can make them consider them.

    It would explain why someone like me still took 300 mana off of their shield, unless we account for some equipment reforge difference or mild exaggeration.

    Stats are not insignificant, and a primary reason why Talvish has a OHKO, because it is a surefire way to force mechanics consideration. That being said, and I am unsure if G21 actually has level scaling.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    You did not just necro something from like two weeks ago...

    I'm not even gonna bother reading that, man. I just...holy cow that was 10 pages ago. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast and this was still bothering you?

    Admittedly, I forgot to refresh the page, however as was said, it was an entire week gathering potion making materials, the tab was still open and only showed 5 pages, had a bit to read after realising
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    Great, wonderful. Care to explain where the extra 7k damage is coming from on Talvish? Cause I hit 22k with L-Rod crits, yet on Talvish it maxes out at only 6.5k, or 0.06% of his health. BUT that is ultimately besides the point. The amount of damage one is able to inflict has never been the real issue that causing everyone such greif. And only relevant to some because they wanted to slap a time limit on EVERY fight limiting them to a race to who can deal DPS fast enough. Personally I don't care if I'm dealing 0.04% per crit or even 0.004% as long as the boss follows it's own rules.
    No complaints about the doppleganger, it was clearly intended to be a long fought war of attrition, and it is!
    No complaints about Talvish's Spike or Blade attacks, he clearly states his intention before using them, and offers ample time to move away, granted your not autoattacking.
    Where at least MY complaints start are the attacks with ridiculous hitboxes
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips
    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.

    Never said they were wrong or lying, simply saying the techniques or equipment they use might not be applicable to everyone, for instance, my r1 magnum shot hits 4k, which is dealing 1k on these bosses, which while for one person may be all they need, personally I can deal faster and more consistent dps with regular attack spam
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.


    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.

    Wow, classic "it wasn't even that hard" hyperbole, should be reputed with "a pics or it didn't happen" retort, but I've always found the troll dance a bit silly.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    It's almost like your trying to say that I DON'T take my time to learn a boss' tells animations and attack patterns in one sentence, and in the next sentence criticising that I took the time to thoroughly scout the boss.
    I'd love to see someone do it on their first try without scouting.
    And yet the only reason I'm still not at the Tagar fight today, is because I strong armed the fight, ignored any and everything I'd learned about the boss, and just tanked everything with soul stones. Which should not be necessary.
    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.
    900+ int, chain cast +4 fire wand upgraded and reforged, and only crits 4k
    While not impossible, I doubt a noob will be any closer to max Int, let alone be near that damage output unless using ALO Asuna or another of the +50 magic attack titles
    Ever consider that maaaybe being sub 1k total makes a few things easier?

    I have already stated before I did everything on the first try.
    This was simply because I exploited hides mechanics and watched them fight with a pet.

    As for Talvish he's got like 10 seconds telegraphed attacks and not like Enemies in this game have collision so you can just run through his attacks.
    That dual scythe move you complain about have a bigger attack range of like 90 degrees you can just run past him to avoid.
    Everything else if you just WALK away does zero damage to you.

    Then again replying to you is just a waste of time because you seem to take criticism and advice with a grain of salt.

    Last time I checked total level doesn't affect boss mechanics.

    Stats are one measure of such; having a boss plink 1s versus 1,000,000 HP aren't just numbers. It is the difference between Metal Slug and Super Mario Brothers, and one of the reasons why previous generations are easier than ever; because they allow people to ignore mechanics, as it can make them consider them.

    It would explain why someone like me still took 300 mana off of their shield, unless we account for some equipment reforge difference or mild exaggeration.

    Stats are not insignificant, and a primary reason why Talvish has a OHKO, because it is a surefire way to force mechanics consideration. That being said, and I am unsure if G21 actually has level scaling.

    Tagar was hitting me for like 600-900 damage I wasn't wearing any armour for the entirety of g21 afaik.
    Using mana shield put the damage down to 200-400 on my mana shield maybe?
    I have like 500 Mp pots from fishing events i never used because i never really had magic leveled before g21 came out.
    So it could just negate all damage she dealt to me.

    Idk if this gen has level scaling either but I would have to assume it does. Based on people saying they only do like .05% of the bosses health.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,900
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    You did not just necro something from like two weeks ago...

    I'm not even gonna bother reading that, man. I just...holy cow that was 10 pages ago. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast and this was still bothering you?

    Admittedly, I forgot to refresh the page, however as was said, it was an entire week gathering potion making materials, the tab was still open and only showed 5 pages, had a bit to read after realising
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Look, I get you're frustrated I honestly do but g21 seriously isn't that hard. There's a lot of different things you can do to iframe tagar (do it all the time in the raid version) the gist of what you're saying is it's too hard to do without reforges/gear. I think I used like 2 balloon charges on tagar, and a few on talvish too but that's it.

    9c90928dcf2c371ad6254bbb83b9f881.png
    This right here, is enough damage to beat the entire thing, along with novice anchor rush. There's people who have done it under 2k total, there's people that have done it over 20k total. Not much else to say honestly. You have people saying they've used guns, close combat, archery, chains, magic even ninja skills to beat it.

    Great, wonderful. Care to explain where the extra 7k damage is coming from on Talvish? Cause I hit 22k with L-Rod crits, yet on Talvish it maxes out at only 6.5k, or 0.06% of his health. BUT that is ultimately besides the point. The amount of damage one is able to inflict has never been the real issue that causing everyone such greif. And only relevant to some because they wanted to slap a time limit on EVERY fight limiting them to a race to who can deal DPS fast enough. Personally I don't care if I'm dealing 0.04% per crit or even 0.004% as long as the boss follows it's own rules.
    No complaints about the doppleganger, it was clearly intended to be a long fought war of attrition, and it is!
    No complaints about Talvish's Spike or Blade attacks, he clearly states his intention before using them, and offers ample time to move away, granted your not autoattacking.
    Where at least MY complaints start are the attacks with ridiculous hitboxes
    HITBOXES.gif
    There have been times that I've been full longbow range, at 90 degree angles from the attack's direction and still been hit during mounted archery.
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips
    When you have so many people saying they've beat it with many varying techniques and you're main rebuttal is "but I can't do it, therefor you're wrong or lying" it's hard to be constructive.

    Never said they were wrong or lying, simply saying the techniques or equipment they use might not be applicable to everyone, for instance, my r1 magnum shot hits 4k, which is dealing 1k on these bosses, which while for one person may be all they need, personally I can deal faster and more consistent dps with regular attack spam
    Opalthira wrote: »
    >finding it Ironic that i used two skill to fight a boss. Completely ignores the line before it that states there are mechanics.
    Lmao its like you just skim read posts.
    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The irony persists despite your praising of the mechanics, you claimed that you felt no need to spam a single skill till the enemy was defeated, yet in action did the exact opposite and in fact spammed a single skill till the enemy was defeated.


    Honestly its been like a week i was done the entire gen with in a few hours.
    Its not even remotely difficult.

    Wow, classic "it wasn't even that hard" hyperbole, should be reputed with "a pics or it didn't happen" retort, but I've always found the troll dance a bit silly.
    All the people here I swear have the "DONT CHANGE MY PLAYSTYLE" mentality of dark souls players.
    Which is also IRONIC because Darks souls boss have more challenge than this entire gen yet people make it seem the other way around.

    Honestly if you are having as much trouble to spend 8 hours on the first boss you're doing it wrong and need to learn to play better.
    And no thats not an insult that's straight me telling you're playing the game wrong if you have to take that long on boss.
    Especially since it only takes like 5 minutes into the gen to get to that boss.

    It's almost like your trying to say that I DON'T take my time to learn a boss' tells animations and attack patterns in one sentence, and in the next sentence criticising that I took the time to thoroughly scout the boss.
    I'd love to see someone do it on their first try without scouting.
    And yet the only reason I'm still not at the Tagar fight today, is because I strong armed the fight, ignored any and everything I'd learned about the boss, and just tanked everything with soul stones. Which should not be necessary.
    Just gonna add it takes like 200k to make a CC+4 fire bolt wand that deals like 5k damage as a noob.
    My wand has no reforges on it and dealt like 8k-12k damage simply because its a tribolt and has decent magic attack on it.
    900+ int, chain cast +4 fire wand upgraded and reforged, and only crits 4k
    While not impossible, I doubt a noob will be any closer to max Int, let alone be near that damage output unless using ALO Asuna or another of the +50 magic attack titles
    Ever consider that maaaybe being sub 1k total makes a few things easier?

    I have already stated before I did everything on the first try.
    This was simply because I exploited hides mechanics and watched them fight with a pet.

    As for Talvish he's got like 10 seconds telegraphed attacks and not like Enemies in this game have collision so you can just run through his attacks.
    That dual scythe move you complain about have a bigger attack range of like 90 degrees you can just run past him to avoid.
    Everything else if you just WALK away does zero damage to you.

    Then again replying to you is just a waste of time because you seem to take criticism and advice with a grain of salt.

    Last time I checked total level doesn't affect boss mechanics.

    Stats are one measure of such; having a boss plink 1s versus 1,000,000 HP aren't just numbers. It is the difference between Metal Slug and Super Mario Brothers, and one of the reasons why previous generations are easier than ever; because they allow people to ignore mechanics, as it can make them consider them.

    It would explain why someone like me still took 300 mana off of their shield, unless we account for some equipment reforge difference or mild exaggeration.

    Stats are not insignificant, and a primary reason why Talvish has a OHKO, because it is a surefire way to force mechanics consideration. That being said, and I am unsure if G21 actually has level scaling.

    Tagar was hitting me for like 600-900 damage I wasn't wearing any armour for the entirety of g21 afaik.
    Using mana shield put the damage down to 200-400 on my mana shield maybe?
    I have like 500 Mp pots from fishing events i never used because i never really had magic leveled before g21 came out.
    So it could just negate all damage she dealt to me.

    Idk if this gen has level scaling either but I would have to assume it does. Based on people saying they only do like .05% of the bosses health.

    I actually believed otherwise; that level scaling was nonexistent alongside a cumulative gate. I argue that if the developers wanted to make bosses difficult, they better be doable.

    To express an unpopular opinion, one reason I am fond of some RPs is that it is a fish out of water scenarios. One is forced to utilize what they have to achieve something that would normally be a cakewalk, and many of the older usages of RPs capitalized on this. They're purely mechanics focused.

    With Tagar, a chain impale did 5% to 10% with a critical, and more with DeathMark and Chain Burst. Doppelganger had more HP, so I did "less", percentage wise, though I noted that I didn't wound him fully with chain blade. When I killed it, only half its bar was blacked out, despite myself possessing 100~100% injury rate.

    I am considering now that stats determine mechanics for the most part. Which is troublesome as one should take care to not completely nullify stats. If mechanics reward skill, stats are the rewards of persistence. If stats are just numbers, then why am I grinding Blacksmithing or Tailoring?
  • XafnirXafnir
    Mabinogi Rep: 720
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    To those claiming this is the culmination of TWENTY generations, your dead wrong, there are several generations that can be done outside of the gen1, gen 2 gen 3 progression, for instance, my first completed generation was Shamala/Nightmare on the week I started the game, and I've completed G19 and G20 on fresh characters using only the Lorna balloon and beginner stones to get past the largest hurdle through both, G19's pre-divine skills Girg fight. As seeing as how you can still access these quests with an EXTREMELY underdeveloped character its more accurate to say that g21 is the culmination of NOT the full previous twenty generations, but just the culmination of the Divine Knights storyline

    I'm sorry but i have to say this: You have paid 0 attention to the story!.
    I'm not even joking, in G21 P1 when we get stuck in the divine ice we get a flashback of every thing we fought and did in the past generations,
    In G19 Altam himself tells us of his admiration for our achievements and so do all the Alban Knights,
    We know Merlin who let's face it, you meet for the first time in G18 P2,
    In the soulstream in G21 P2 Cichol reminds us about Glas,
    The erg enchanter in G21 P1 tells us of the many different powers inside us (IN THE STORY)
    In the divine knights saga we meet the Queen whom we don't meet till very late (story wise) and she literally says that we helped her.

    And I could just go on with all the facts we have literally presented in this ark and if this was not the culmination of the past 20 generations then I don't know, the characters in this arc might just have a severe case of omniscience or flash forward inside the game.
    fennixfox
  • NinzerkerNinzerker
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 70
    Member
    Yeah this is one of those things that need to be tweaked a bit. However, running under his legs to the back will help you dodge it as with the other bosses we faced in part 1.
    Unfortunately he doesn't necessarily need to be facing you to launch it in your direction, so even moving behind him frequently results in another hit.
    What level are you? I'm lvl 570 something total, it was a bit of a effort. I just needed to strategize a bit more.
    Hit 9.4k tonight, as for strategy the best one I've found thus far is to once again ignore all strategy, and tank the hits with defense. Which is counter intuitive for an elf, but it allows less down time for damage, and while SOME damage could be mitigated by evasion, it's better to guarantee I take 150-200 damage instead of risking all or nothing 0 or 700-800 damage. It will just take an uncomfortable amount of time amassing the required HP 300 potions as I've no herb pig/clover gnu and will have to synthesize for all my four leaf clovers.
    The worst for me was the dopple...that was terrible. If you ignored killing the minions and hitting the orbs, it would have been impossible depending on your wounding skill set. You could have as much naos and mp shield as much as you want, as you wittle it down a few points at a time after regen. You would run out of time. The golem was nothing with the use of hide, I passed it on the first go easily due to the prompt.
    Personally, I had no issue with the dopple fight, The strategy I employed started with snap casted fireball and finished the remaining clones. When not stunlocked by flame burst hit all the switches to keep the adds low during phase one.
    During phase 2 you can effectively ignore the switches, as dopple goes for a very annoying DoT attack each time their lit, however using crisis escape the moment the screen flashes prevents him from launching the attack. Limiting him to the same three alchemy skills. As for weaponry, I'd suggest a basic shortbow, for it's base 50-100 injury rate, and costing 350g doesn't break anyone's bank even if you decide to toss it after instead of repairing.
    Opalthira wrote: »
    I have already stated before I did everything on the first try.
    This was simply because I exploited hides mechanics and watched them fight with a pet.
    And I've used 5 elite summoning scrolls to sic a bunch of bears on him, while hiding. Talvish STILL targets you and nukes the summoned bears/pets in the first attack
    As for Talvish he's got like 10 seconds telegraphed attacks and not like Enemies in this game have collision so you can just run through his attacks.
    Odd, the attack in question seems to have less than 10 frames of windup instead of 10 seconds of telegraphing. But I HAVE been trying to avoid the attacks all this time, maybe I should give running into and "through his attacks" as suggested a try?
    Then again replying to you is just a waste of time because you seem to take criticism and advice with a grain of salt.
    I take both critique and advice at face value, your grain of salt is appreciated.
    I actually believed otherwise; that level scaling was nonexistent alongside a cumulative gate. I argue that if the developers wanted to make bosses difficult, they better be doable.
    That would make sense, if there was a cumulative gate for g19-g21 But you can start them with brand new characters as soon as they reach level 20, which isn't even fully out of the tutorial yet.

    They stopped Total Level gating back at generation 13, with only requirements for 14, 15, and 16 being that you completed the previous in order
    Starting at generation 17 on:
    The Shadow Mission difficulty is based on your total level:
    Beginner for 1~99 total
    Intermediate for 100~299 total
    Advanced for 300~999 total
    Hard for 1000+ total
    The outlier being Gen20 was announced during livestream to be locked to beginner difficulty
    No such official announcement was made for Gen21, (at least to my knowledge) but to note the apparent lack of difficulty those pre 1k total seem to be having as opposed to the majority of post and beyond. I surmise the wiki is incorrect with it's assumed claim of similarly being beginner locked as it's neither sourced, nor even briefly discussed. Especially when there is evidence circumstantial or otherwise to the contrary.
  • spamellaspamella
    Mabinogi Rep: 810
    Posts: 13
    Member
    @Ninzerker do you have Catering? I ended up training it just for Talvish. The Super Sticky Taffy from the attendance event gives a boatload of hp and protection depending on how much of it you use. After that I opted for Smash instead of my usual chain blades because bleed sounded nice and the chain skills were just too slow. I'd be mid Chain Crush/Impale when he'd wind up the scythe attack and have 0 time to move once I was free. Finally beat him with 30 seconds to spare after 3 days of trying (I kinda suck at time-the-bar reaction games but smash was doing less after the cutscene it felt like so I endured).
  • lethalviruslethalvirus
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,720
    Posts: 169
    Member
    holy biscuits, like 15 pages in about a week, all the elitists against nerfs and all the rookies in pro of nerfs must be here arguing for dear life like JdW92ngUQGOQkupRQoHwH8at7brNDfAQGepSEAvHFfL4AT9ST4bBJGB4IspATT6eV1VdDND3XNQjR4KBtMiAyO7EPJtJ7KKFrsOiHAQ7Kv99m3eL-wYoGGzLySiPLStlCKCWHIwz
    GretavioletkittMizukiHayamaBlissfulkill
  • RiddleTricksterRiddleTrickster
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,585
    Posts: 70
    Member
    edited July 22, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    Yeah this is one of those things that need to be tweaked a bit. However, running under his legs to the back will help you dodge it as with the other bosses we faced in part 1.
    Unfortunately he doesn't necessarily need to be facing you to launch it in your direction, so even moving behind him frequently results .
    If you noticed, it takes a few seconds for his skill to start. This is also where timing comes to place, if you move too fast they then lock on you in your current location.

    You hear the sound when you get locked on, his siren bone adornments will have the alert exclamation mark appear. You can then try to move after dodging by just going under. That is what I did.

    And unfortunately for the dopple I had to do what I did to pass because of my skill set, or I wouldn't make the timer from just looking at how much damage I did after every regen.

    After the minions and orbs I just spammed mag, and fighter charged every so often due to the wound percent they did out of all the other skills I had. I am an archer not mage ( despite being elf I know lol) so that and alch wouldn't work as they are too weak. I finished everything a few days ago with my Dragon knight bow.

    Edit: Oh yeah as spamella mentioned, I believe foods stack up to 8. Definitely use food as a boost.
  • Raincloud95Raincloud95
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,830
    Posts: 183
    Member
    They were all incredibly annoying, but I was in a bloodrage to protect my husbando so I got it all done pretty quickly
  • dra011dra011
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,000
    Posts: 130
    Member
    I would like the time limit for Talvish to be buffed but that's about it.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,110
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 23, 2018
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    As for the phantasm breaker title comment, you see that's not really related.
    How the Phantasm Breaker title IS related, is simply showing that everyone who's beaten it within the first few days are exclusively those with end game equips


    I got my title about a month after it came out without end game equips. The only usable reforge I had in there was a WotG duration reforge and I used WotG all of like 2 times in there. At the time my gear was pretty standard, upgraded armor and a pair of CRKs (Not even step 6 then). You wanna know how I did it? I failed a bunch of times, learning how to most effectively use my skills, what to look out for, and carefully planning my next run, you know, HOW EXACTLY TO PLAY A GAME. People here are giving you legitimate advice. There are also even times when you are just simply not strong enough to undertake the challenge, come back later when you acquire more skills, experience and gear. To simply grind other player's achievements down to just "Oh they have better gear" ignores the other advantages they gained through playing the game, namely, their experience, strategies, and play styles.

    I can tell you certainly that a free player can do any content in the game through just playing the game, and getting better at things. If you fail, you failed, just remember to understand why, if the messages are confusing, ignore them, just try something until you figure out how it works or rather, something that works for you. If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again.

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