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Is it worth it?

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  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,000
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 25, 2018
    Clovis15 wrote: »
    "Mister Merchant Meeting Man" stopped long ago with that game, just so you know (I wish I could use the person's name, but that would be against the rules). So I'm not exactly sure what "forces" you're referring to anymore, but I'm guessing your info is vastly out of date. I could speak of vastly outdated rumors regarding the other servers as well, but - since I'm advocating for honesty and truths here - I won't name any.

    So if what you're saying isn't a lie, they must be giving away wings for far less than a single million right now on Ruairi/Tarlach. That said, I highly doubt they are. Oh, but we seriously do have wings going that low regularly on the Auction House these days. Maybe not the most coveted varieties, but they seriously are going that low now.

    Alexina is not some mythical toxic place against new players, please stop trying to imply otherwise. I really wish profiles here would list which Server a play spends their most time on, so we could better tell the reasons for such posts.

    Anyways, I don't hold any ill will for anyone currently active in this conversation.

    At no point did I say that Alexina was toxic. That is a lie on your part. You insist on truth of your own words while decrying other people's words as falsehoods when they oppose yours. Your fist assumption was that I was trying to bring people to -my- server, and as I stated later, I'm from Mari, advocating players to enter Tarlach and Ruairi, your first assumption and falsehood. Second you say that I'm presenting Alexina as satan, yet I don't see anything in my original comment that even alludes to that. Cuttroat means competition that is fierce and intense, which a larger population means that it happens, no matter what you do. This is your second falsehood. Third, my comment directs to the mabinogi community at large to help out the small communities within itself to help it thrive and remain healthy, at no point was my comment self serving as you accuse me of. You try to absolve yourself of responsibility by using words and phrases like "I really don't begrudge you" or " I have nothing against you specifically" while accusing me of lying. This is a discussion, if you feel like a disadvantage requires further expansion, then add your take to it instead of accusing criticism as lies.

    Here's an example: "Alexina's market is a bit tougher than other servers, but if you're good with pricing, you'd actually do really well there". See? A continuation of the conversation and discussion in a constructive and meaningful manner.

    Also, you seem to be a bit lacking in basic economy so let me enlighten you. First off Alexina has a large population, much larger than the other 3 servers, this means that there will be more players to affect the market is different ways, these are market forces, entities that affect how the market plays out. How would you say this would affect the market? Let me explain: a larger population means more people are producing money, this means more currency is in circulation that is ever growing. More money in the market means that if the goods are not produced at a similar rate means those goods would cost more as time goes on. Another force is the production of the goods used in the markets, more players means more goods are produced, but at the same time, more goods are consumed. Items are not generated uniformly, which means some items will depreciate in value while other items will appreciate. These forces interact in a market that affects its prices as the demand and supply shift and change. More people means that there are more of these forces at play that affect the market. What happens when you have so many factors? A fierce and intense competition as people in the market compete to get the best deals, gaining and supplying goods. Which means the market is cutthroat. By comparison, smaller population servers have less of these forces, meaning that someone who is working in that system has an easier time managing their goods and money on the market. I hope this helps you understand how markets work a bit more. There are many MANY other factors in play but these are some of the major ones in effect that is easy to visualize.

    The simple fact is, Alexina, by virtue being being a large population center, will have more competition than lower population servers. This is not demonizing the server, this is a fact. Whether it means its an advantage or disadvantage is for discussion on the topic. And to twist this on you, none of what you said makes Alexina the perfect flawless untainted server you seem to want people to believe it is. Everything you've said are in fact a cold reflection what you're accusing me of doing. Presenting falsehoods to people to sway their decision to align with yours. On that matter, I advocate for constructive discussion, building on other's people's comments to create a far better understanding and narrative on the topic to promote informed decisions.
    ObsimfennixfoxImaizumistarkiller1286
  • AnimemabiAnimemabi
    Mabinogi Rep: 605
    Posts: 51
    Member
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.
    fennixfox
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,000
    Posts: 661
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    Animemabi wrote: »
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.

    There are plenty of things to do, particularly for a new player. But playing it in smaller chunks will pad out how much content you'd go through, long enough for new content to come up. And if you come back for new updates it means that something in there was worth it enough for you to come back and try it. Otherwise you'd have left and never looked back.
    fennixfox
  • AnimemabiAnimemabi
    Mabinogi Rep: 605
    Posts: 51
    Member
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.

    There are plenty of things to do, particularly for a new player. But playing it in smaller chunks will pad out how much content you'd go through, long enough for new content to come up. And if you come back for new updates it means that something in there was worth it enough for you to come back and try it. Otherwise you'd have left and never looked back.

    Not really tbh the only thing that reminded me of mabi was a twitch stream i had forgot it existed so came back out of curiosity and came to the conclusion above.
    fennixfox
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,000
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Animemabi wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.

    There are plenty of things to do, particularly for a new player. But playing it in smaller chunks will pad out how much content you'd go through, long enough for new content to come up. And if you come back for new updates it means that something in there was worth it enough for you to come back and try it. Otherwise you'd have left and never looked back.

    Not really tbh the only thing that reminded me of mabi was a twitch stream i had forgot it existed so came back out of curiosity and came to the conclusion above.

    It still holds up that something in there was enough to make you come back to check it out. For people that I know quit, quit without ever looking back, even when reminded of it. But this is up to each person's interpretation. I still find it worth it because it gives me the freedom to play in very unorthodox ways like mixing and matching clashing talents so I can attempt different dungeons or missions with it and see how well my setup fairs.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,115
    Posts: 4,683
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    Animemabi wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.

    There are plenty of things to do, particularly for a new player. But playing it in smaller chunks will pad out how much content you'd go through, long enough for new content to come up. And if you come back for new updates it means that something in there was worth it enough for you to come back and try it. Otherwise you'd have left and never looked back.

    Not really tbh the only thing that reminded me of mabi was a twitch stream i had forgot it existed so came back out of curiosity and came to the conclusion above.

    It really depends on how you plan to play the game. In the end, the main part of the game is to do the storyline and to build your character around it. Everything else including events are pretty much sandbox, although some events are related to the storyline. If one is the type of player that plays everyday to get everything done, then this is not the game for that. I think players enjoy the games because it's more freestyle and you can set your own goals and pace. However, no game will be perfect and no game will be able to make everyone happy and satisfied.
  • Clovis15Clovis15
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,780
    Posts: 213
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    edited July 25, 2018
    I did not lie, but you are twisting things to create the illusion otherwise.

    In reality it is smaller servers - not larger ones - where economies go evil fast. While I haven't been on Tarlach and Rauiri, and thus can't speak for what's going on (again, I'm not repeating rumors), I've been on other games before that weren't doing so well. More hands in the pot doesn't immediately generate evil as you claim, but actually make it harder for any one person to exert total control. In reality smaller market places quickly become over run by individuals dogged to fully exert their will on the place, and with less opposition having their own say they succeed easily.

    Now I am not saying this is how things currently are on other servers in Mabinogi, and I certainly hope that it hasn't happened yet, but Alexina is not inherently customer unfriendly because it's bigger. Your argument about goods production proves you don't know what's going on at all. You can find nearly any basic materials easily on Alexina, and at low prices, except for when certain training events create rushes upon them. This is because, despite Alexina's larger population, there are more people hunting/creating these goods as well

    We don't have only one person hunting down various materials on Alexina, because there's more than enough customers to satisfy multiple producers (and one producer can't possibly even try to satisfy them all). If anything, competition between them moves prices downwards as each are individually competing with each other to ensure you buy from them (rather than someone else). Now I'm not saying all of them appreciate this competition, and at times I've been yelled at for pricing things in ways that cause downwards pricing trends where everyone else was forced to catch up (not often, but it has happened that I was at times yelled at).

    Now admittedly smaller servers will usually have basic materials in ready supply as well, there will be enough people hunting out Holy Water - and the like - as well. Enough people will bother so long as it's profitable, and more people will join in so long as the current vendors aren't producing enough to satisfy the server population. Now I don't personally speak for Ruairi and Tarlach, and I certainly hope things are currently otherwise, but here's what quickly happens in other games with smaller servers. Fewer vendors are needed to satisfy a given demand, as there are fewer customers overall, and thus its easier for them to agree upon enforcing prices. Worse yet, if they are prominent people within certain circles, I've even seen them use their influence to ensure anyone under pricing them never receives aid and regularly becomes shut out of parties/raids/etc. While people can certainly try to do this on larger servers, the largeness of the population makes it far less likely to control everyone simultaneously. Eventually everyone slips through your fingers when people compete against everyone else for the same sales, and you also don't have the influence needed to control every last group playing every last bit of content anymore

    But we're talking about materials, because you brought up materials, which actually favor larger market places. Larger markets don't just mean more players trying to buy those goods, but they aditionally mean more players farming those same goods to serve those players. These two will generally remain even (in proportion) despite server size - high or low - but smaller markets, with fewer proportional venders, make it easier for all the vendors to potentially enter lock-step collusion.

    fennixfoxImaizumi
  • GaeaGaea
    Mabinogi Rep: 38,245
    Posts: 5,962
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    Imaizumi wrote: »
    Oh yeah final pro tip. do NOT make ur character on tarlach and especially ruari unless u have great incentive to do so. near dead if not dead servers. I know the residents there get offended and say they like it being cozy or small knit and what not, but the comparison is no joke compared to a server like Alexina. You will lock your self out of options and it's just good information to know.

    Size wise. Alexina >> Mari >> Ruari >> Tarlach

    Keep it in mind. I recommend Alexina despite my obvious Alexina residence bias. But I speak from leaving Tarlach 4-5 years ago and was in a similar restart situation as you.

    I wanted to keep going but a fresh start seemed better for me as well as the fact that Tarlach was more dead when I came back compared to when I first played.

    Fixed.
    Jazmyn
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,000
    Posts: 661
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    Clovis15 wrote: »
    I did not lie, but you are twisting things to create the illusion otherwise.

    In reality it is smaller servers - not larger ones - where economies go evil fast. While I haven't been on Tarlach and Rauiri, and thus can't speak for what's going on (again, I'm not repeating rumors), I've been on other games before that weren't doing so well. More hands in the pot doesn't immediately generate evil as you claim, but actually make it harder for any one person to exert total control. In reality smaller market places quickly become over run by individuals dogged to fully exert their will on the place, and with less opposition having their own say they succeed easily.

    Now I am not saying this is how things currently are on other servers in Mabinogi, and I certainly hope that it hasn't happened yet, but Alexina is not inherently customer unfriendly because it's bigger. Your argument about goods production proves you don't know what's going on at all. You can find nearly any basic materials easily on Alexina, and at low prices, except for when certain training events create rushes upon them. This is because, despite Alexina's larger population, there are more people hunting/creating these goods as well

    We don't have only one person hunting down various materials on Alexina, because there's more than enough customers to satisfy multiple producers (and one producer can't possibly even try to satisfy them all). If anything, competition between them moves prices downwards as each are individually competing with each other to ensure you buy from them (rather than someone else). Now I'm not saying all of them appreciate this competition, and at times I've been yelled at for pricing things in ways that cause downwards pricing trends where everyone else was forced to catch up (not often, but it has happened that I was at times yelled at).

    Now admittedly smaller servers will usually have basic materials in ready supply as well, there will be enough people hunting out Holy Water - and the like - as well. Enough people will bother so long as it's profitable, and more people will join in so long as the current vendors aren't producing enough to satisfy the server population. Now I don't personally speak for Ruairi and Tarlach, and I certainly hope things are currently otherwise, but here's what quickly happens in other games with smaller servers. Fewer vendors are needed to satisfy a given demand, as there are fewer customers overall, and thus its easier for them to agree upon enforcing prices. Worse yet, if they are prominent people within certain circles, I've even seen them use their influence to ensure anyone under pricing them never receives aid and regularly becomes shut out of parties/raids/etc. While people can certainly try to do this on larger servers, the largeness of the population makes it far less likely to control everyone simultaneously. Eventually everyone slips through your fingers when people compete against everyone else for the same sales, and you also don't have the influence needed to control every last group playing every last bit of content anymore

    But we're talking about materials, because you brought up materials, which actually favor larger market places. Larger markets don't just mean more players trying to buy those goods, but they aditionally mean more players farming those same goods to serve those players. These two will generally remain even (in proportion) despite server size - high or low - but smaller markets, with fewer proportional venders, make it easier for all the vendors to potentially enter lock-step collusion.

    I love how you keep insisting on me decrying Alexina as evil even though in all of my posts I have stated repeatedly that it wasn't the case. My original post said cutthroat, "(of a competitive situation or activity) fierce and intense", meaning that Alexina's markets are more competitive in nature. Of our entire discussion you keep reusing the same excuse that any criticism, even listing disadvantages of your server is an attack on it that declares it as evil, satanic, and should be avoided at all costs. Your markets are more competitive, that is fact. And no, I am not twisting things to create an illusion, you made wrongful assumptions, perpetuate a notion that has been debunked repeatedly, and continue to use the same arguments without adding anything meaningful or constructive. Your only arguments consist of declaring the statement as lies while offering no positives that may arise from counter arguments, or even the original statement in the first place. So no, I have not twisted anything, I've just listed all of your statements in hopes that you see for yourself how badly composed your arguments are and how you immediately jump to a conclusion and stay there. Though credit where credit is due, you did add in your take on the market situation, so that is a step in the right direction. Had you opened with that, then I wouldn't have had to point out the faults in your counter-posts.

    Secondly, as I've stated in my post explaining it, goods are not supplied at a uniform rate as the population of a market expands. As the market grows in population, supply for certain goods will begin to overtake the demand, while in other goods, the demand will grow faster than the supply can keep up. This is competition, people are fighting to get the highest price for their goods, while paying the lowest for purchases. By its very definition, this means that a good insight into the game and current trends is a necessity to operate well within such a market, which is exactly what my original post stated. You are under the assumption that supply and demand for each product scales uniformly with growth, which it doesn't. As a population grows, items that are rarer, that require specific requirements that not all of the population qualifies for, but are still consumed by others people will have a demand that out stripes the supply. The opposite is also true in that a growing population will create a bigger base for certain items to gain more than the demand for it is. Again, this is the exact climate for a more fiercely competitive market. If you're denying that this is the case, I suggest you brush up on some actual economy. By comparison, a smaller population market will have less of these driving forces meaning that pricing remains consistent for longer because the forces that shift and change it are not as strong. By nature this market is not as competitive because people that get into this market can expect the pricing to be relatively the same in a short amount of time.

    In comparison, Alexina's market will have more forces acting on it, like rich players buying up rare resources, players supplying relatively common items at high supplies, the mass exchange of goods and money. To thrive in this type of market insight, knowledge, and foresight is required to keep with the fluctuations and changes. By comparison, the other server markets are relatively stable in terms of fluctuations. Since they have smaller growths in population, they experience smaller rate changes, as the status quo is more or less maintained. This market is much easier to manage and get into because changes are smaller, and the heaviest impact would be from updates introducing new goods, items, and other items so changes are easier to track and predict. On the subject, higher prices does NOT automatically means a worst off market. There are even advantages and disadvantages to competitive and non-competitive markets and that it is ultimately up to the person deciding to pick out if that situation is what they'll have fun with. There ARE people that react well with high stakes markets, and then there are those that prefer something easier to manage. Listing out the characteristics of the servers as advantages and disadvantages and building up a narrative into the type of interactions the servers use will instead be more helpful to someone looking to joining.

    Finally, my intention is to promote players of the community at large to help out the smaller communities within itself. There is no perceived evil in any of the servers, and statements against other servers are usually levied as disadvantages perceived by a member of that community. If you feel like it misrepresents, or even just UNDERREPRESENTED something about your server, add something to it. What could be a disadvantage to another community might in fact be an advantage to that community. A competitive market means that someone that is good at dealing with these things will be able to find a rare item for cheaper at times as opposed to another server, where such deals are rare and few in between. Rather than decry a statement as a lie, as you so adamantly accused me, think about it on your terms. Is this a disadvantage? Is there something positive I can say about this instead? These are questions you should've asked yourself when you see disadvantages made against your server. Instead you immediately took it as an attack and returned with accusational arguments. If you want to continue this, you can explain where in my statement I called Alexina as evil and satanic. (Remember, you brought these terms into the discussion).
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,560
    Posts: 1,025
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    Gaea wrote: »
    Imaizumi wrote: »
    Oh yeah final pro tip. do NOT make ur character on tarlach and especially ruari unless u have great incentive to do so. near dead if not dead servers. I know the residents there get offended and say they like it being cozy or small knit and what not, but the comparison is no joke compared to a server like Alexina. You will lock your self out of options and it's just good information to know.

    Size wise. Alexina >> Mari >> Tarlach >> Ruairi

    Keep it in mind. I recommend Alexina despite my obvious Alexina residence bias. But I speak from leaving Tarlach 4-5 years ago and was in a similar restart situation as you.

    I wanted to keep going but a fresh start seemed better for me as well as the fact that Tarlach was more dead when I came back compared to when I first played.

    Fixed.

    Fixed. 9876ceed24c1b956e7aa754f90998d56.png
    Kensamaofmaristarkiller1286Greta
  • GaeaGaea
    Mabinogi Rep: 38,245
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    You know I've always wondered about the accuracy of that thing.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 20,700
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    I personally dont find this game worth it and here is why i came back to all this new stuff but at the end of the day its the same mabinogi and you will end up coming to the same point (as in me) that you did before you quit etc. i would not recommend playing this game everyday religiously like nexon try's to make you with all theses log in afk events and constant money grab sales i thought i was going to come back to a better game after 2 years a pretty much nothing changed and i dont mean this in a good way thus is merely my observation and feeling son the matter.

    There are plenty of things to do, particularly for a new player. But playing it in smaller chunks will pad out how much content you'd go through, long enough for new content to come up. And if you come back for new updates it means that something in there was worth it enough for you to come back and try it. Otherwise you'd have left and never looked back.

    Do not we try things to determine worth in the first place? I think the very idea of trying is a worthy one (Basic life advice there), but that doesn't mean we will always find worth or leisure in the end. People cling to hope pretty hard, I suppose.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    Put up a poll, OP! :D
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,560
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    Gaea wrote: »
    You know I've always wondered about the accuracy of that thing.

    From personal experience I'd say it's roughly accurate. ruairi is probably same or lower than tarlach with mari being noticeably higher than both of those, and again alexina being noticeably higher than mari.
    Greta
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,180
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    edited July 31, 2018
    Please do not dodge the language filter.

    Alexina is the most populous server. Think of it as New York City. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Tarlach is the least populous. If so, think of it as being like a small town. As far as I know Mari and Ruari are similar in population so they are like medium sized cities. If you've never been to New York City you might find people there don't seem as friendly as folks in a small town. Sure there are -removed- in NYC but there are a lot of really good people too, but the mean ones you're gonna remember if you're just visiting. If you decide to play on Alexina just think of it as living in the big city; it takes more time to find your footing, but you will.
  • GretaGreta
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    edited July 31, 2018
    Helsa wrote: »
    Alexina is the most populous server. Think of it as New York City. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Tarlach is the least populous. If so, think of it as being like a small town. As far as I know Mari and Ruari are similar in population so they are like medium sized cities. If you've never been to New York City you might find people there don't seem as friendly as folks in a small town. Sure there are -beep- in NYC but there are a lot of really good people too, but the mean ones you're gonna remember if you're just visiting. If you decide to play on Alexina just think of it as living in the big city; it takes more time to find your footing, but you will.

    Mari and Ruairi are not similar. It's more like Ruairi and Tarlach, i think these two have very similar/same population in there, but seems like Tarlach folks are more active/friendly, well at least in my eyes. It's more like Alexina > Mari > Tarlach >/= Ruairi.
    Also don't try to bypass filter in these forums, it's against rules.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Mari definitely has more people out and about.
  • Clovis15Clovis15
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,780
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    edited August 2, 2018
    @GTCvActium

    I'm sorry, initially I was posting in a general sense - addressing many people whom regularly decry Alexina every time the server choice topic arrives - while also responding to you specifically. This was a poor choice on my part, as there was no way that'd ever look like anything but a claim you personally were making such attacks. You - specifically you - didn't personally say anywhere that Alexina was evil (other people - in other threads - have repeatedly done so, however). As such, I'm sorry for how that turned out. I should not have vented my frustrations when specifically responding to your claims, as that just made things worse.

    That said, beyond that - wherein I agree fully that you never said those things - we'll just have to agree to disagree on how we see the situation regarding Alexina's economy. We both have very different opinions on how the size of Alexina's servers currently affects things, and I doubt we're likely to change each other's minds on the matter. We've both already made our respective cases - wherein you believe it's more "Cutthroat" (your exact words), and I believe it has more opportunity for fair competition - and I guess we'll politely just leave it at that.*

    Anyways, to repeat: I apologize again for what - by all rights - certainly looked like a personal attack.

    * (I might eventually make a longer treatise on how I feel people should approach Alexina's marketplace, but it'll definitely be at a much later time.)