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Gambling Simulator 2017?

Comments

  • TheOthicTheOthic
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,525
    Posts: 52
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »

    Oh stop being so mad. Jesus.

    That's what you get since you are a cool bean. :trollface:

    Yeah its pretty ironic coming from gaea :smirk:
  • HarukariHarukari
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,470
    Posts: 836
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    Gachas will never stop since it's their main source of money income.
    That and reforges... Ugh.

    But yes I agree I'd love to see more shopping bags, stuff that you can just buy directly without having to rely on stupid RNG.
    This game is already RNG enough.
    Sherri
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,440
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    ShouK wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
    Why would people buy the gacha when they can just buy the outfit bags?

    To try your luck for other items? At least if you got another outfit/whatever from the gacha, you could sell that one instead of having to buy another outfit bag. Wouldn't hurt. =T
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,158
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    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.

    That's what Vindictus does. Some of their their stuff was gach but they also had a number of things you could buy individually in their beauty shop. They would make new releases limited time. Plus the prices were a little expensive but if you really wanted it you could buy it and it was permanent.

    It would be cool if we had under armor styles here too.
  • lidiyalidiya
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,325
    Posts: 335
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    Sheena wrote: »

    Do you remember the last time we could just spend like 7-10$ in a shopping bag and get what we wanted right away?

    I remember when we could get every armor, and weapon item in game. I'm that old school ;)
    Only thing you had to pay for were dye amps, bank space(prem service), rebirths(which eventually got special outfits), and those other worthless items that premium service poops out. But all in all even that if you had prem, AND rebirthed every 3 weeks you still spent drastically less then what you have to blow for a piece of an outfit from the gacha of the week.

    Spent less money then... well was the past few months I've dropped my spending to the point I now spend 0, and my play time these past few weeks dropped to 0 too as I got fed up with the gachas, and their god awful rates. Hell the events aren't even worth logging in for (well might log in saturday for that one hot time).
    SherriTairiku
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,615
    Posts: 2,817
    Member
    Here is the thing. Lockboxes, gachapons, or gamble boxes as you call them FUND THIS GAME. Sad but true. Without funding, the game doesn't get updated, doesn't keep the servers on, and the game dies.

    Now let's see if anyone actually makes it to this part before tearing me a new one. For the record I voted for "Yes, No more gambling" (sic) but here is the thing. How do you replace the actual mountain of money that Nexon makes off their gachas? I don't have any stats on how much they make but in STO, the figure of $2,000,000 a day was estimated in revenue off their version of gamble boxes when the new boxes dropped. If we say Nexon makes half that, how do we replace $1,000,000 in revenue a day off of gachas? Granted the revenue rate is probably less because of the sheer rate of new gachas, which is every 2 weeks. In STO, it was every 3 months.

    Still, the point stands that Nexon most likely makes more money off of gamble boxes and shopping bags probably won't make as much because of their very natures. I like the shopping bags. I pay x and know I am getting y for sure. However, because I am assured I am getting y, I will only buy 2 bags, maybe 4 of them. I have no idea how much shopping bags are but let's think big. $20 a bag. Let's say I bought 4 because they were M and F sets and I have a sister who also plays. That's $80 from me on a shopping bag that came out and I have all the pieces. Let's say it's a 4 piece set giving each piece a value of $5. Pretty fair, I think, for a bit of digital cosmetic clothing.

    Now in a gamble box I need to buy at least 8 gamble boxes, at $1.50 each. That would cost me a mere $12. If I am stupid lucky I get all 8 pieces that I need and save $68. However, because of the gamble nature of the gachas, my chances of getting the item I want is stupidly low. I could maybe understand it if it was a physical good and that good was expensive to make, but this is digital. I know there are artist and programming costs but artificial rarity at the level that Nexon takes it is a bit much.

    Again, in STO, their lockboxes have a 0.5% chance at the single large ticket item in them which is usually a space ship. Nexon has clothing. And an actual mountain of crap items. There are 45 big ticket items in the latest gacha. If we assume an equal chance for each of them that is 2.2% chance of each item. Now add in the 84 other items that are listed. That's 129 items with 0.77% chance of getting any given item assuming everything is weighted evenly.

    Two gachas ago, the one with the Imperial Prince and Princess clothing, I bought 191 gachas for me and my sister to open. 191. At the end of all that I still had to find someone who was selling the Long Imperial Prince outfit because in 191 tries, we didn't get it. Out of that 191 pile I got about 10 big ticket items. If I could have bought a shopping bag I would have since they tell me what they are giving me but lacking that option I gambled. Nexon made way more money from me because of their gamble box than hypothetical $20 shopping bag.

    Lastly, I would like to call @Gaea and @Sherri to double check my numbers because I have been told that they can count and want to be doubly sure about my figures. We need our professional counters around here to help out after all.

    Long story short, the gamble boxes are terrible but they make way too much money for companies to ever stop doing.

    Cool beans.
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    Policroma wrote: »
    I also think it's funny how people get so mad at monster urns and wonder why Mabi keeps bringing them the back. Well, when this one came out, me and some other randoms were opening them and fighting the monsters and having a darn good time. Before the other randoms came along, I had a good time soloing red dragons. As silly as it may seem, they are actually fun if you stop to fight the monsters. And with full gambler's fallacy disclosure, I felt luckier while opening them.

    I was actually talking to my husband the other day about how I dislike the gachapons ONLY because I'll never get a cool item if i bought one. LOL. ;P

    That being said, I am glad others do like them and buy them as it supports the game; HOWEVER, I also was telling my husband how I like the way they set up the monster urns.... I went to Port Q to watch people opening them and there were groups of people fighting the monsters. I loved it. It brings people out playing together.
    SherriPolicroma
  • OriaOria
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 56
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    Leinei wrote: »
    ShouK wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
    Why would people buy the gacha when they can just buy the outfit bags?

    To try your luck for other items? At least if you got another outfit/whatever from the gacha, you could sell that one instead of having to buy another outfit bag. Wouldn't hurt. =T

    Ok, so as an example, an outfit bag that is purchasable without the outfit animation and set bonus, or pieces of the outfit set in the gacha that are X-Grade finished, with most likely desirable enchants already on them with rank 1 reforge and set bonus?

    At least then there a choice of trying to get the gacha version and/or buying outfit. But I guess most wouldn't care as much for the stats if it's going in the Style tab anyway ^.^;;
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Oria wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    ShouK wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
    Why would people buy the gacha when they can just buy the outfit bags?

    To try your luck for other items? At least if you got another outfit/whatever from the gacha, you could sell that one instead of having to buy another outfit bag. Wouldn't hurt. =T

    Ok, so as an example, an outfit bag that is purchasable without the outfit animation and set bonus, or pieces of the outfit set in the gacha that are X-Grade finished, with most likely desirable enchants already on them with rank 1 reforge and set bonus?

    At least then there a choice of trying to get the gacha version and/or buying outfit. But I guess most wouldn't care as much for the stats if it's going in the Style tab anyway ^.^;;

    That actually seems like a decent trade off.
    Removing the outfit animation and making it purchasable.
    nexon would have to put in bold every other line that they don't have the animations though lmao.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,158
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    Here is the thing. Lockboxes, gachapons, or gamble boxes as you call them FUND THIS GAME. Sad but true. Without funding, the game doesn't get updated, doesn't keep the servers on, and the game dies.

    Now let's see if anyone actually makes it to this part before tearing me a new one. For the record I voted for "Yes, No more gambling" (sic) but here is the thing. How do you replace the actual mountain of money that Nexon makes off their gachas? I don't have any stats on how much they make but in STO, the figure of $2,000,000 a day was estimated in revenue off their version of gamble boxes when the new boxes dropped. If we say Nexon makes half that, how do we replace $1,000,000 in revenue a day off of gachas? Granted the revenue rate is probably less because of the sheer rate of new gachas, which is every 2 weeks. In STO, it was every 3 months.

    Still, the point stands that Nexon most likely makes more money off of gamble boxes and shopping bags probably won't make as much because of their very natures. I like the shopping bags. I pay x and know I am getting y for sure. However, because I am assured I am getting y, I will only buy 2 bags, maybe 4 of them. I have no idea how much shopping bags are but let's think big. $20 a bag. Let's say I bought 4 because they were M and F sets and I have a sister who also plays. That's $80 from me on a shopping bag that came out and I have all the pieces. Let's say it's a 4 piece set giving each piece a value of $5. Pretty fair, I think, for a bit of digital cosmetic clothing.

    Now in a gamble box I need to buy at least 8 gamble boxes, at $1.50 each. That would cost me a mere $12. If I am stupid lucky I get all 8 pieces that I need and save $68. However, because of the gamble nature of the gachas, my chances of getting the item I want is stupidly low. I could maybe understand it if it was a physical good and that good was expensive to make, but this is digital. I know there are artist and programming costs but artificial rarity at the level that Nexon takes it is a bit much.

    Again, in STO, their lockboxes have a 0.5% chance at the single large ticket item in them which is usually a space ship. Nexon has clothing. And an actual mountain of crap items. There are 45 big ticket items in the latest gacha. If we assume an equal chance for each of them that is 2.2% chance of each item. Now add in the 84 other items that are listed. That's 129 items with 0.77% chance of getting any given item assuming everything is weighted evenly.

    Two gachas ago, the one with the Imperial Prince and Princess clothing, I bought 191 gachas for me and my sister to open. 191. At the end of all that I still had to find someone who was selling the Long Imperial Prince outfit because in 191 tries, we didn't get it. Out of that 191 pile I got about 10 big ticket items. If I could have bought a shopping bag I would have since they tell me what they are giving me but lacking that option I gambled. Nexon made way more money from me because of their gamble box than hypothetical $20 shopping bag.

    Lastly, I would like to call @Gaea and @Sherri to double check my numbers because I have been told that they can count and want to be doubly sure about my figures. We need our professional counters around here to help out after all.

    Long story short, the gamble boxes are terrible but they make way too much money for companies to ever stop doing.

    Cool beans.

    latest?cb=20140315164222
    Sherripawcalypse
  • pawcalypsepawcalypse
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,705
    Posts: 496
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    edited October 25, 2017
    This is that loot-box case all over again. However, I agree.
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
    Posts: 117
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    @Gaea

    You say you are the big sibling around here. I just want to you to double check my math. Why are you so mean?! I shall now go take comfort by cuddling my cool beans.

    On topic, the reason you see wings everywhere is because people are spending enough money to buy Gachas to get wings. That doesn't mean the drop rates have improved. In the 6 months I have been playing, between my sister and I, we have 6 wings between us that came from Gachas. And combined we have opened somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 (delicious comma, mmmm) Gachas. 6 out of 1,000 are not good odds. And people generally only sell if they have a duplicate or open Gachas solely to sell the contents. Most open Gachas to keep the items themselves.

    Also, I don't think a published list of odds would help nor hinder the sale of Gachas. Because while it might deter some, it would embolden others and actually might drive up the market if people knew that item A has a 0.000005% chance of dropping vs item B which has a 5% chance of dropping. There will be those that then use those odds to justify higher prices. Or those that want an item because of the super rarity.
    Iyasenu[Deleted User]LeiliciapawcalypsePolicromaMikuV3
  • TairikuTairiku
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,910
    Posts: 74
    Member
    My only problem with Gacha is all the end-game enchants and pre-forged gear they always seem to vomit out now. Gacha is okay I get that it's a stable form of money for them, but pay2win gear is not okay and if you really think about it is just shortening the game's lifespan. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned and think gear should be worked for, but you just kill the drive to actually play the game when you create such a lazy method of obtaining what is already in the game.
    BehelitSherri[Deleted User]
  • papatuluspapatulus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,200
    Posts: 41
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    This is nothing compared to MapleStory. ~ I think you mean RNG (not RGN; unless you need a Registered General Nurse)... ...

    Seriously. Most people I know >> out there >> in offline life (online is realer than you think) look at me in DISGUST (LOL) when they learn how much money I've given to game developers over the past 10 to 15 years (more to Nexon than any other >> and more to MapleCrack than any other Nexon game).

    LOL ... ~ I vaguely remember telling myself >> back in 1999 >> I would NEVER spend money on pixel-form micro-transactions >>

    Look at meow!!! :p :lol:

    To be honest, compared to some hobbies videogames are fairly cheap. Got a friend who's big into amateur film-making and unless you are ok with handheld shaky cam footage, you do need quite a bit of money to get filming locations, high quality cameras, hell if your friends are rubbish actors then you also need to hire some decent ones and thats also not cheap.

    I think the problem with gachapon, particularly the current one, is that the 'failure' rewards are so... meh. Even compared to the last one, the cosmic wonder box, which had letters of guarantee, teeny nao, x-rank crafted heavy armor, training potions, dura hammers, the astrologer outfit, those are all fairly decent stuff.
    this one? SIX coin box related 'prizes', halloween costumes (individually too! I was practically giving away the skeleton outfit shoes), the 'of X' ducat instruments, it just felt much worse when you didnt get the main prizes.

    I'd liken it back to when TF2 (remember that game? man im old) first introduced loot crates. The big win was an unusual hat, at like a 0.1% chance, but the initial lootcrates they released had regular weapons as part of the prize pool. For a comparison, it would be like opening a tower cylinder completely identical to the one you can buy from npcs, out of a gacha.

    I don't have the same revulsion towards loot crates/gacha a lot of people do, I love how it allows for some games to be free2play as long as the whales keep buying, I'm ok with some of the items being really good and rare and exclusive (even in mabi where, lets be honest, the difference in absolute top tier and pretty decent tier isnt really that relevant), I'm definitely ok with fashionogi gachapons, I have a couple issues with reforges (why so expensive and awkwardly priced ;-;) but honestly, mabi's gacha has always been one of the better examples in my eyes
    pawcalypse[Deleted User]SherriNilrem
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
    Posts: 117
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Sorry for the double post, but, if I edit this in my last post; the person I'm calling won't necessarily get the message (they don't get notification).
    @ArchdukeValeCortez ~ 6 in 1000 is horrible if the whole of your math is from the same gachapon. (Assuming they all have the same rate).

    That's to say; if they don't have the same rate .. your math is flawed ...

    (I can't say for sure because I dont have the rates; and the same applies to you) :)

    @Hardmuscle

    I am fully aware that my math is flawed because it is based on the premise that the Gachas have the same drop rates, which they probably don't. The 6 out of 1000 comment was aimed at someone who commented that they thought the drop rate was fine because they saw people with wings. I merely added in my personal experience which shows in my particular case, the drop rates on wings are pretty bad.
    [Deleted User]
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,158
    Member
    edited October 26, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Sorry for the double post, but, if I edit this in my last post; the person I'm calling won't necessarily get the message (they don't get notification).
    @ArchdukeValeCortez ~ 6 in 1000 is horrible if the whole of your math is from the same gachapon. (Assuming they all have the same rate).

    That's to say; if they don't have the same rate .. your math is flawed ...

    (I can't say for sure because I dont have the rates; and the same applies to you) :)

    giphy_s.gif
  • SheenaSheena
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,515
    Posts: 381
    Member
    What is a cool bean?
    (\__/)
    (O.O)
    (> <)
    U U
    Sherri
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
    Posts: 117
    Member
    Sheena wrote: »
    What is a cool bean?
    (\__/)
    (O.O)
    (> <)
    U U

    It is a bean that is neither hot nor cold.
    Sheena
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,660
    Posts: 1,704
    Member
    edited October 28, 2017
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    I prefer Shopping Bags.

    DIRECTLY BUYABLE Shopping Bags.

    Not in a gacha.
    Not in a "shuffle".

    Directly Buyable.

    No matter how many times we've complained about this on the Forums, it's almost like the Nexon NA marketing team thinks we're lying when we tell them why so many players rage quit.
    As much as we love Mabinogi, there is competition out there that has modernized the Cash Shop faster and better than Nexon NA, and it's time that Nexon KR starts understanding that they won't make a profit if they don't allow NA to at least run the Cash Shop solo.
    ShouK wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
    Why would people buy the gacha when they can just buy the outfit bags?

    It's called teamwork. There's the statistician and mathematician.
    Then there's the guys who say, "Okay, how much of this is going to be for a direct purchase, and what exactly do we put in the RNG Box?"
    There's also seasonal rotation, seasonal returns, seasonal events, and after all the items are in one big list, you get this:

    CS DrP:
    x/x/x through x/x/x Halloween Outfit Sets (2-5, for each race)

    Seasonal Return:
    x/x/x through x/x/x Halloween Gachapon (Total of x items)

    Seasonal Rotation:
    x/x/x through x/x/x Partners (bonus sale, 50% off)

    Seasonal Limited Sale:
    x/x/x through x/x/x Special Halloween Partners
    x/x/x through x/x/x New! Halloween Gachapon (Total of x amount of items)

    Gachapon Rotation:
    x/x/x through x/x/x Holiday Pets

    Essentially, it's just sacrificing a few ex Gachapon outfit sets, (maybe a year+ old) to add into a sellable package for either a discount or whatever price.
    The added amount of sold gachapons while adding in a complete outfit set for sale adds a bit of a more comfortable RNG number, giving the player options to either play safe or take chances.

    SherripawcalypseNerdylicious
  • NerdyliciousNerdylicious
    Mabinogi Rep: 975
    Posts: 10
    Member
    I've spent well over 200 dollars on this Gacha and have gotten mostly junk from it, it sucks but this is how Nexon does business and it seems to really work for them. I wish everyone luck blowing their hard earned money on a game hoping to get something rare haha. That's what makes me the most upset i mean people are spending real life money and getting junk left and right that can hardly be sold at all in game :/. I know people are going to say like " Well its your choice bla bla bla" and they're not wrong but still its a crappy situation to be in. Hopefully things can get better with Gacha rates but i doubt that's ever going to happen because people simply wouldn't spend as much money.
    Sherrieikoden