Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the Crom Bás Part 2 update!
https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/71292/crom-b-s-unveiled-abyss-part-2-patch-notes-january-13th-2022
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

The Elf Revamp, Yes I said it.

NachanNachan
Mabinogi Rep: 950
Posts: 13
Member
in General Chat
I have been playing as my elf character Nachan(Alexina) for quite some time now and there are some issues I would like to address in the form of an Elf Revamp.

Skill Changes

Mirage missile is a waste of a skill if you ask me. When you compare our skills to humans there is a huge difference in quality. Humans have arrow revolver and we have what? A weak wannabe poison spread. I don't know any archers that use it. I suggest revamping it into a new skill entirely. The new Mirage Missile would be a magic shot that doesn't do any damage but gives the target a debuff that makes the next attack does 3x damage on said target(excluding godmode attacks). This skill has one fatal flaw however. It makes that enemy insta aggro the user once mirage missile hits. As part of the elven revamp hide (renamed Vanish) now lets the user do one attack before deactivating. The onlys skill that doesnt deactivate vanish is mirage missile. This makes mirage missile viable. As a result vanish uses 4x the mana while loading an attack (not having one activated). So if you use fireball while hidden you will suck up allot of mana. You cant use hide with a skill activated excluding Mirage missile and Meditate.

The next skill to be changed is Mana Shield. The first change is to fix the glitch where sometimes attacks override mana shield and attack health directly. The next change is to give it a well needed visual revamp.I propose a spinning blue sphere barrier that surrounds the player. The more max mana the player has the bigger the barrier. Also the lower the users mana is the more cracked the barrier becomes.

Final shot now never misses and ignores armor as well.

Elven Magic Missile is in desperate need of a revamp. It is now a two pronged attack. First of all the weapon you are using (wand or bow) determimes which part of the attack will do more damage. It is equal by default. First you select the aoe location. Then you hail down a flurry of arrows in a large aoe around the targeted area. Finally a huge magic circle appears on the ground where the arrows landed and either a lightning storm, fire explosion or large hailstorm obliterates whatever sorry creature remains. The arrows scale with dex and the magic storm scales with int. Im not good at calculating dmg but it would have decent damage, not 200 like it is now.

The last skill in this revamp is a new skill I have invented. Its called Feint. Its a treat dor the few elves (including myself) who decided to go against the meta and use melee. It is meant to be used in tandem with Vanish and Mirage Missile. Feint is a two part attack, three if you include mirage. Feint on its own creates an after image of yourself (even if vanished). While the enemy is confused you can move behind the enemy and click to attack a weak spot. This attack ignores defense and protection and causes the target to bleed out. The ideal setupis to shoot the target first with mirage missile to get triple damage. Sure daggers are a joke now but once they have decent options this skill will be viable. With this revamp I have essentially created a new racial class, the desert assassin. Sure it wont be thev strongest melee buildbout there but it would atleast be fun.

Other changes
Elves can dual weild daggers only
More daggers have been added
( weaker than swords)
Hide changed to Vanish
Vanish is much harder to see in pvp
Vanish is complete invisibility in Connous
Vanish can attack once before appearing.
Daggers deal more damage when vanished.

Cooldowns

Elven Magic Missile twice per trans
Vanish- 20 sec no attack. 5 min with attack.
Magic Missile- once every 15 min
Final Hit- same
Feint- 14 min
  1. Is this revamp possible?46 votes
    1. Yes
       22% (10 votes)
    2. No
       78% (36 votes)

Comments

  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
    Posts: 443
    Member
    are you suggesting a new race, that is dark elf?
    ArchdukeValeCortezCrimsọnVaughanPip-BoySherrikapapaKaruiex
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    damn got my hopes up I thought there was an actual elf revamp anyways doesn't this belong in feedback and suggestions?
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    edited November 3, 2017
    First: This belongs in feedback/suggestions as said above.

    Second: There is already an upcoming indirect elf revamp.

    Its called Chain Slash. Elves get the ability to melee and not be terrible.
    Until one realizes that Elves at high levels of archery are absurdly overpowered and among the strongest skillsets of the game. Even with Chain Slash's insane burst damage around.
    The only downside to elf archery is (input lag? nobody is sure what it is at this point...), the process of gaining dex, and funding.

    Elves are god tier in KR. Remember that.
    Zero lag archery is scary.

    As for what you suggested:
    Why do you want to change hide?
    It is already one of the most broken abilities in the game thanks to Elf Hydra.
    In fact, it is actually NERFED from what it once was.

    Originally, Elves in Hide, literally everywhere, were 100% impossible to see outside of people in the same party.
    This was abused to great length, and bringing that back AND making an already overpowered ability have more power is not something that would be healthy in the long run.

    As for mana shield changes, more of the same.
    An ability already absurdly overpowered and you want to change it to be even stronger.
    I have already met people nigh invincible with how strong their mana shield is.
    The last thing we need is for an already broken ability to become even more broken on an already powerful race.

    Final shot should in fact not be changed. It is already terrifying with Vision of Ladeca up.
    Adding 100% hit chance to the already present machine gun firing speed it can have would be beyond game breaking.
    Even more if you have it ignore armor. Just why?

    The only 2 things worth changing (and not in the way you want) are mirage and magic missile.
    Mirage because it has to compete with Hydra.
    Magic missile because......well its just SO BAD. Might as well just replace the skill entirely.

    And I know you wanted to make a cool new idea but....Fient just sounds like a dumb ability.
    Even as a longtime elf player I would NEVER use it.
    LeiliciaShouKVaughanSherriNaomii66kapapaKaruiexTheNyanCat
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
    Posts: 443
    Member
    Final shot need revamp, anyone who suggest it to be used with a skill that can only be used once every 30 minutes AND CALL IT POWERFUL is straight up bullshiting everyone who read it
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Hazurah wrote: »
    Final shot need revamp, anyone who suggest it to be used with a skill that can only be used once every 30 minutes AND CALL IT POWERFUL is straight up bullshiting everyone who read it

    With the changes suggested here, 30 minutes would be more than enough for an endless loop of shredding Succubus Queen in Phantasm.
    Because by having the "ignore armor" bit added to "no longer able to miss", 30 minutes is more than enough to save the use of it to kill a boss usually requiring Demigod Brionac Def/Prot shredding to even damage and make the boss last 30 SECONDS.

    As for Final Shot not being powerful...
    Keep in mind YOU CAN USE MAGNUM DURING IT.

    So these suggested changes would be Magnums firing every half second that cannot miss, ignore all forms of Def/prot, and are already dealing huge damage due to how powerful endgame archery already is.

    So no. Final Shot does not need a buff.
    Just the NA Servers.
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited November 3, 2017
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Just the NA Servers.

    so you suggesting the skill does not need revamp just because the skill is OP at ANOTHER SERVER?


    what are you? korean developer trolling here to deny every single suggestion on revamp that caused by lag that happen in NA server frequently?
    Kaga
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,615
    Posts: 559
    Member
    The only "change" I really want with elves is Dual knife wielding. Other than that? Perfectly chill with elf skills as they are.


  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Hazurah wrote: »
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Just the NA Servers.

    so you suggesting the skill does not need revamp just because the skill is OP at ANOTHER SERVER?


    what are you? korean developer trolling here to deny every single suggestion on revamp that caused by lag that happen in NA server frequently?

    Because there is one thing you must always remember, as it has always been this way and will never change:
    We do not decide balance changes.
    Balance changes are decided in KR.

    If Elves are broken overpowered in KR, KR will never buff them.
    And to that extent, we will never see buffed elves.

    I was also referencing speeds NA server could prob reach.
    Be it at peak performance(which isn't that much) and not on a market channel.

    KR can become even faster. Frighteningly so.
    TheNyanCat
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,685
    Posts: 774
    Member
    Dual-wielding daggers and dirks sound good to me. It won't significantly change the meta game or make an OP race even more OP.

    I know elves have hollow birdy bones but I don't think they're that hollow.

  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    edited November 4, 2017
    Mirage Missile is amazing, I don't know why everyone is hating on it. If anything I would change the spread AoE and frequency (though not damage frequency, as that would hurt the overall duration).
    MM compared with elven movement speed makes you literally untouchable against a single enemy. That's the whole point. It also deals great damage on impact, it's basically a mini magnum that loads much faster and slows. It's a fantastic skill.

    I object to all changes you're posing aside from dual daggers, especially the melee skill. Elves aren't supposed to be warriors/lancers, that's clearly anchored into the lore and stats. They may one day have a talent that allows them to be decent in melee, but it should not be warrior or lance combat. I'm saying this as an elf. We're not all mighty.

    Also, other people: don't argue that archery is god-tier in KR. While it may be so, we have to keep pushing for an update that will benefit everyone, such as a damage formula for archery that incorporates latency as a variable to adjust the damage based on how much you lag. All these aim speed buffs are meaningless to people who don't live next to the servers, especially us europeans, who don't have an own server anymore.

    Hide is fine the way it is, aside from the cooldown. It should maybe have a 15s base cooldown and add 15s*(damage taken that broke your invisibility divided by your max health) to the timer and will thus leave the timer straight at 15s if you were the reason the invisibility broke in the first place. It should never, Never, NEVER make you fully invisible, you know why? Because privacy, that's why. Full invisibility is something GMs can have AT MOST, because it means you can just stand next to people who're in a secluded area and listen in to all they're saying. Of course they should keep things in private chat in the first place, but this is a major issue regardless. Not nice. Don't stalk people, it'll only hurt mabi's reputation for allowing it. Hide also needs no additional effects. It's not that great for combat I agree, but that's how it's supposed to be. Hidera is about the only thing you can do with it and its usefulness keeps getting smaller, plus the damage per second is really low on that one and that's fine.

    Final Shot needs to activate like way of the gun, so that you don't have to cancel one skill and load another skill every single time you want to launch a damn arrow. For us europeans that alone can take 3-6s to do, which makes the skill absolutely worthless regardless of how much aim% you get on top. What we need is a skill duration bar like WOTG has so that we can just load magnum shot like we normally do, without having to always cancel final shot first. Also, for the teleportation to be useful at all it needs to work while aiming. I never use it, because I'd rather spend that time on aiming than teleporting away. Also, this skill needs to not use durability while shooting like final hit does.

    For Elven Magic Missile just do the same as with the giant revamp. Also make it actually work with wands and staves as it's supposed to. Done.

    Lastly, Vision of Ladeca (for ALL races) needs to stop canelling when switching channels. That's a pointless feature and you know it. Can't even run black dragons with it properly.

    (Btw, the mana shield effect you suggested is sure to lag the crap out of everyone, especially in raids, so I really, really advise against it. It's not something mabi's old engine can handle without incurring problems)

    EDIT: I forgot while writing this wall of text, but an elf revamp should probably also involve magic. If we ever get an elf revamp, I assume that might also be where it'll go, instead of more archery.
    SherrikapapaSphyra21
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,175
    Posts: 1,499
    Member
    Is elf QQ still a thing?

    Didn't people already accepts that devkitty hate elves by now?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,690
    Member
    edited November 4, 2017
    I voted no because I know you elves are just jelly of dual wield final hit with broken reforges. :trollface:
  • LeiliciaLeilicia
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 313
    Member
    Don't worry Gaea, I feel like most that said no main elves too. The op's "revamp" ideas are a bit..lame? dumb? Something I would absolutely hate.
    Nilrem
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,690
    Member
    I mean they can solo Phantasm, what is the problem?
    NilremShouK
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Mirage Missile is amazing, I don't know why everyone is hating on it. If anything I would change the spread AoE and frequency (though not damage frequency, as that would hurt the overall duration).
    MM compared with elven movement speed makes you literally untouchable against a single enemy. That's the whole point. It also deals great damage on impact, it's basically a mini magnum that loads much faster and slows. It's a fantastic skill.

    Yeah, Mirage Missile is very underrated. A shame it has to compete with Elf Tower Hidra.
    An option that is often safer, able to ignore immunities, and be endless with master title.
    Heck, in some cases even be stronger.
    Siodhan wrote: »
    I object to all changes you're posing aside from dual daggers, especially the melee skill. Elves aren't supposed to be warriors/lancers, that's clearly anchored into the lore and stats. They may one day have a talent that allows them to be decent in melee, but it should not be warrior or lance combat. I'm saying this as an elf. We're not all mighty.

    Thing is, unless Dual Daggers used Dex, it would still be a subpar thing to have. Elves have low Strength, and having weak Strength scaling daggers with already low damage be the way for elves to melee would not fix anything.

    Now if we want to talk Elf Melee, Chain Slash is on the horizon as the wonderful sword whip talent that uses dex and luck.
    AKA "Elves not only get melee, but arguably the best burst damage in the game, only matched by endgame archery. Which elves also already have to great effect."
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Also, other people: don't argue that archery is god-tier in KR. While it may be so, we have to keep pushing for an update that will benefit everyone, such as a damage formula for archery that incorporates latency as a variable to adjust the damage based on how much you lag. All these aim speed buffs are meaningless to people who don't live next to the servers, especially us europeans, who don't have an own server anymore.

    Like I said above, as long as Archery is God Tier in KR, KR will view elves as a broken, overpowered race and NEVER revamp them.
    Heck, even here endgame elves are overpowered. Crystal Deer Magnum is an unstoppable strategy that makes even Phantasm easier to solo.

    Although I do feel you on the lag bit. That is why I mentioned lag as one of the 3 entry points to Archery.
    As well as Input lag. Honestly even near lagless archery here has problems.
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Hide is fine the way it is.
    Hidera is about the only thing you can do with it and its usefulness keeps getting smaller, plus the damage per second is really low on that one and that's fine.

    This.
    Only, low damage on Hydra?
    I can almost solo MA with Hide Hydra alone, it is anything but small.

    Here are some tips for Hydra damage:
    Master title
    R1 Clay Alch
    At least 900 Stamina
    Upon placing Hydra, swap to a Tower Cylinder. This actually increases damage by a huge amount.

    There is a reason I always reference such as "Tower Hydra".
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Final Shot needs to activate like way of the gun

    You are right! Those elves that can already hit upwards of 1 million damage per magnum should totally be able to rapid fire that!
    That won't be broken at all and perfectly balance elves alongside other races.
    Siodhan wrote: »
    EDIT: I forgot while writing this wall of text, but an elf revamp should probably also involve magic. If we ever get an elf revamp, I assume that might also be where it'll go, instead of more archery.

    THIS.
    If there is ANYTHING to revamp it is Elves being corrected on magic superiority.
    Although considering how Elves are in KR, even that sweet change is all but a dream...
    ShouK
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    I want to see that 1m magnum happen under normal circumstances.That smells like bull. I've seen a 1m+ lance charge and that probably took a lot of effort and buffs to set up. Either way, changing final shot that way won't change all that much fo rpeople with a good ping. For people with horrible latency to the server (again, hello from us europeans), it'd be a godsent. It takes more than half of the total duration of final shot to keep switching between cancelling final shot and loading another skill than it does to actually aim and shoot. that becomes even more drastic if you have vision of ladeca on. I would also be absolutely fine with just giving final shot a completely different functionality altogether. It's not entirely necessary to give us even more aim speed, it could be something simple, like extra damage while it's active, or a large splash with each shot no matter what skill you use, or something. There are a lot of creative things that can be done there, though I suggested this as the simplest possible solution because that's what it already is, just without the ridiculous skill-switching-delay.

    But yeah. I'm aware hydra can deal a lot of damage, just..it is not my style of gameplay and I find it to be very slow in general, even if it's a surefire way. Some content like phantasm shows that they're actively working against some of the meta, such as hidera or lullaby.Though I wish lullaby at least slowed if it didn't sleep, since that dumbs down bard even further to just one single skill, essentially.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,160
    Posts: 2,714
    Member
    Please, nobody ever mess with HidexHydra. It's fine the way it is and the only way I can deal decent damage being an elf alchemist.
    I do agree that magic should be revamped. Actually, a good idea would be to follow a similar route of MapleStory.
    They have a Battle Mage class (which I main btw, fun) that uses INT but it's more of a warrior styled class.
    Here, this seems good.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Don't like it at all. Sounds like homebrew D&D aka no balance at all. Chain sword is basically the elf revamp, it'll give elves a melee tool they'll be best at.
    NilremSherriPolicromaVaughan
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 50,210
    Posts: 6,955
    Member
    Wow, i totally forgot the existence of Elf QQ/Revamp threads. Welcome back? :trollface:
    Policroma
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,690
    Member
    edited November 4, 2017
    @Nilrem psh! I want Mana shield to be uncapped to rank 1. Also Mana shield is not impenetrable. You use dance of death and dischord with the right reforges, Hydra, skills like that and you can mess up that tactic. Even with my Mana shield at rank 6 and my Mana shield damage reduction 19, if someone uses a combination of those skills it can wipe me out pretty fast. Also the Duke from peaca can bypass that shield. So yeah it's powerful but not fail proof.
    Sherri