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Best economy update ever(Auction House discussion)

Comments

  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    @KawaiiEvee while I do agree that the bidding may need some form of tweaking or perhaps warnings to satisfy both the seller and buyer.

    I still think names should be anonmous if you want to haggle do housing personal shop or party ads, now I know you want their name for cancelling a bid but I think working on the bidding process itself is what should be done, let's not tamper with the sellers anonmity.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,105
    Posts: 2,779
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    KawaiiEvee wrote: »
    Why should bids be canceled? All it does is inconvenience the seller over the fickle nature of the buyer. One doesn't simply "offer" to buy something, then back off because they found a cheaper item. That is rude, and an inconvenience to the bidding system. Which ideally, is what an automated system is suppose to prevent.

    I suppose a compromise is a 2 minute cancellation period, but other than that, don't bid.

    Also the problem on that is I didn't know how it worked at first and when I clicked to see what it did it auto took it and I started freaking, so I tried to see if the persons name was there but to no avail.... (don't ask how I didn't know even though it prompts, state of confusion ok..) So now my bid is going for 10m thing I don't even want and can't cancel it which I find really awful. Or it should at least display the persons name so I can talk to them about it.

    Plus I'd be fine with people personally withdrawing their offer, its not like it didn't happen before this came out, so nothing new.

    I do understand money being taken out before the purchase, so they can't be one of those people who offer but come back to you saying "Oh I don't have the money right now" which can be quite annoying sometimes... asking yourself why are they offering like 10m if they only have 3m. Most times I wait on them til they gather money though, unless its a new item that's really wanted/popular. Overall, love the new system, just a few fixes would make it greater and not so annoying to use.

    Because withdrawing is a jerk move in both situations. The commonness of an impolite or immoral action doesn't excuse any one or group of individuals from the responsibility not to perform said action.

    The difference here is even more clear, since it is an impromptu agreement to pay for it via an automatic system, not a simple exchange of messaging that can easily be reverted. (Which essentially seems akin to accepting someone's bid, requesting a meet up place, then getting there to be informed that the buyer has bought the item cheaper.)

    I sympathize with you in this case, but why a 10 million gold item? If one wishes to test it, then I believe attempting on a lower priced item would be just as efficient, or an item someone wishes for. Although if you were testing the 9,999,999, then I appreciate it, and consider it unfortunate.

    I would suggest for the game to implement a small period of time through which bids can be canceled.

    Although looking at further info, it seems past bids can be saved. So perhaps I am wrong here. Perhaps for bidding, it can go to the previous bid, upwards of three times.
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,870
    Posts: 1,752
    Member
    the only time you can retract a bid right now is if someone outbids you. you have a button to stop bidding and you can get your money back
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    @Blissfulkill if you think about it, it discourages malicous sellers too. Can't drive up your own offer with fake bids from alts unless you are willing to risk your gold.


    I've yet to bid but does it give you a warning?
  • ChibisaiChibisai
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,470
    Posts: 285
    Member
    Arjune wrote: »
    Chibisai wrote: »
    wait wait, they ended up buying a person's 20m item for 1 gold?

    What I mean is bidding 1 gold over, so it'd be 20,000,001.

    well that's their fault for putting 20m starting bid on a 30 mil item. Also they can apparently cancel the auction at ANY point as far as I know... a friend bid like 7 mil on an argenta wig and then it poofed about 10 minutes later and said her purchase failed

    That's pretty annoying because what if you stalked a certain item for the entire 48 hours and had your bid in and then the person canceled. I think I'll stick to auto-buys lol

    I would agree with this but imagine someone bidding 25m on it only to not win it because someone else bidded 1 gold more over their offer. Moreover, the seller can cancel sale if they don't like it/get crappy bids so yeah...
  • JaridavinJaridavin
    Mabinogi Rep: 810
    Posts: 28
    Member
    Chibisai wrote: »
    And there should be a cancel bid button *cough* And shouldn't take the gold out before the end bid....

    The reason it takes your gold out instantly when you bid is to prevent you from bidding, then lowering your bank funds afterwords. It's much easier and less likely to break if it takes your gold on the spot, and just gives it back when you lose, rather than trust the community suddenly won't pull out all the bank money to try and cheat the system.
    GretaBlissfulkillChibisai
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,175
    Posts: 266
    Member
    I think the worst part is gonna be all the bots...
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
    Posts: 786
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    Trythis wrote: »
    . . . . . . . . There isn't any way to see the name of the seller, is there?

    That's a good thing no rich elites can play favorites and if someone is just using it for storage they won't be bothered about something they don't want sold, lastly I think you mean you want to bargian but I think they wanted to make something along those lines but without talking to anyone

    A hot time event item from a few months ago is not worth 20mil; that's the only reason why I'm haggling. There are some really ridiculous prices. But I think you answered my question: they aren't placing the hot time item because they want to sell, they're using it as storage.

    The seller certainly has the bulk of power in this auction house, and I only hope this does not lead to a worsened inflation. Don't misunderstand me, as a seller I do appreciate the fact that I won't be haggled for ridiculously low prices. But I am slightly concerned at the possible consequences.


    KawaiiEvee wrote: »
    Why should bids be canceled? All it does is inconvenience the seller over the fickle nature of the buyer. One doesn't simply "offer" to buy something, then back off because they found a cheaper item. That is rude, and an inconvenience to the bidding system. Which ideally, is what an automated system is suppose to prevent.

    I suppose a compromise is a 2 minute cancellation period, but other than that, don't bid.

    Also the problem on that is I didn't know how it worked at first and when I clicked to see what it did it auto took it and I started freaking, so I tried to see if the persons name was there but to no avail.... (don't ask how I didn't know even though it prompts, state of confusion ok..) So now my bid is going for 10m thing I don't even want and can't cancel it which I find really awful. Or it should at least display the persons name so I can talk to them about it.

    Plus I'd be fine with people personally withdrawing their offer, its not like it didn't happen before this came out, so nothing new.

    I do understand money being taken out before the purchase, so they can't be one of those people who offer but come back to you saying "Oh I don't have the money right now" which can be quite annoying sometimes... asking yourself why are they offering like 10m if they only have 3m. Most times I wait on them til they gather money though, unless its a new item that's really wanted/popular. Overall, love the new system, just a few fixes would make it greater and not so annoying to use.

    Because withdrawing is a jerk move in both situations. The commonness of an impolite or immoral action doesn't excuse any one or group of individuals from the responsibility not to perform said action.

    The difference here is even more clear, since it is an impromptu agreement to pay for it via an automatic system, not a simple exchange of messaging that can easily be reverted. (Which essentially seems akin to accepting someone's bid, requesting a meet up place, then getting there to be informed that the buyer has bought the item cheaper.)

    I sympathize with you in this case, but why a 10 million gold item? If one wishes to test it, then I believe attempting on a lower priced item would be just as efficient, or an item someone wishes for. Although if you were testing the 9,999,999, then I appreciate it, and consider it unfortunate.

    I would suggest for the game to implement a small period of time through which bids can be canceled.

    Although looking at further info, it seems past bids can be saved. So perhaps I am wrong here. Perhaps for bidding, it can go to the previous bid, upwards of three times.

    I'm sorry Bliss. I agree with you on a great many other things, and I hope that what I am going to say is not misinterpreted (because I do respect you), but I will have to disagree with you outright on this.

    Buying and selling is an equivalent exchange. The seller has an item that they want to get rid of, and the buyer wants that item and will pay gold for it. The seller, in this case, can change their mind anytime, take back an item out of the auction house and re-implement it for a different bid range. The buyer, however, is not permitted to change their mind like the seller is. Right of the bat, you can see that this is not an equivalent exchange; one person has more power than the other.

    Why is it unfair or a jerk move for the buyer to change their mind? The seller does not have exclusive rights to the buyer's money bags; that gold is the buyer's property, not the seller's. Nor does the seller have exclusive rights to sell item A; plenty of other people also have item A and have the right to sell it if they wish. There is always going to be competition in an economy, and you will always have to compete with others in both buying and selling items. It is the very heart of a free market. Insisting that it is not fair that you have to compete with people selling Item A for cheaper is like insisting that it is not fair that other people exist to compete against. Until the trade happens, a seller does not have any dibs on the buyer's money; it is the buyer's property until the trade actually happens.

    A bid is not a promise, it is a proposal. It is not a guaranteed, it is a possibility.

    My parents work at a firm that deals with bids; that's just how it is.
    YokkaichiBlissfulkillChibisaiTwelie
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.
  • lostheavenlostheaven
    Mabinogi Rep: 790
    Posts: 29
    Member
    I'm happy with the auction house. It will be MUCH easier to sell stuff now. I don't have to deal with annoying cruddy trades, or people whining about my prices anymore. As for the lag, I'm sure it'll be fixed. Just give them some time. Commas are AWESOME because I don't have to be worried that I didn't set my price right. The gold limit change is what it is, I'll never have that much gold to worry about anyways lol.
  • KawaiiEveeKawaiiEvee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
    Posts: 63
    Member
    I'm sorry Bliss. I agree with you on a great many other things, and I hope that what I am going to say is not misinterpreted (because I do respect you), but I will have to disagree with you outright on this.

    Buying and selling is an equivalent exchange. The seller has an item that they want to get rid of, and the buyer wants that item and will pay gold for it. The seller, in this case, can change their mind anytime, take back an item out of the auction house and re-implement it for a different bid range. The buyer, however, is not permitted to change their mind like the seller is. Right of the bat, you can see that this is not an equivalent exchange; one person has more power than the other.

    Why is it unfair or a jerk move for the buyer to change their mind? The seller does not have exclusive rights to the buyer's money bags; that gold is the buyer's property, not the seller's. Nor does the seller have exclusive rights to sell item A; plenty of other people also have item A and have the right to sell it if they wish. There is always going to be competition in an economy, and you will always have to compete with others in both buying and selling items. It is the very heart of a free market. Insisting that it is not fair that you have to compete with people selling Item A for cheaper is like insisting that it is not fair that other people exist to compete against. Until the trade happens, a seller does not have any dibs on the buyer's money; it is the buyer's property until the trade actually happens.

    A bid is not a promise, it is a proposal. It is not a guaranteed, it is a possibility.

    My parents work at a firm that deals with bids; that's just how it is.

    Can I just save how much I love what was said here, and how correct this is.

    Twelie
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    Trythis wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.

    I agree while there is a discussion to be had about how bids are placed, please leave all transactions anonymous as I played games like runescape and tera giving it the bare bones human interaction is how these systems rocked, to put it bluntly it was very efficient.
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
    Posts: 786
    Member
    Trythis wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.

    A system where you don't have to talk to anyone is fine. By no means do I want the seller's anonymity to be changed, I am merely voicing my reservations. And you are correct; there are still other methods by which to buy and sell, so I am hopeful that perhaps my reservations are unwarranted.
    Veylaine wrote: »
    Trythis wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.

    I agree while there is a discussion to be had about how bids are placed, please leave all transactions anonymous as I played games like runescape and tera giving it the bare bones human interaction is how these systems rocked, to put it bluntly it was very efficient.

    Yes I don't mind that sellers have anonymity (I have concerns, but they are not too major), but I do mind that buyers cannot have the power to change their minds. I don't see how canceling a bid can negatively affect a seller when the seller is the one who sets the bid range. Since the seller sets the bid range, then no matter what bid is placed the seller will always get a price that they are happy with. The seller will always get what they want and always has the ability to change their mind and cancel item placement. The buyer, not so much.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    Trythis wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.

    A system where you don't have to talk to anyone is fine. By no means do I want the seller's anonymity to be changed, I am merely voicing my reservations. And you are correct; there are still other methods by which to buy and sell, so I am hopeful that perhaps my reservations are unwarranted.
    Veylaine wrote: »
    Trythis wrote: »
    @WolfandWolf well as I said earlier there's other three methods that still exist where you can haggle, housing, shops/kiosks, and trade/party ads.

    I'm assuming here so take it with a grain of salt but I think they inttended this to be bargain system without talking to anyone , if you played other games with a similar system like this it's usually this robotic because they wanted it that way.

    I agree while there is a discussion to be had about how bids are placed, please leave all transactions anonymous as I played games like runescape and tera giving it the bare bones human interaction is how these systems rocked, to put it bluntly it was very efficient.

    Yes I don't mind that sellers have anonymity (I have concerns, but they are not too major), but I do mind that buyers cannot have the power to change their minds. I don't see how canceling a bid can negatively affect a seller when the seller is the one who sets the bid range. Since the seller sets the bid range, then no matter what bid is placed the seller will always get a price that they are happy with. The seller will always get what they want and always has the ability to change their mind and cancel item placement. The buyer, not so much.

    im fine with that just as long as the system keeps players anonymous, the bidding does need some changing but leave identity of both sellers and buyers alone please.
    WolfandWolf
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,105
    Posts: 2,779
    Member
    edited April 6, 2018
    Trythis wrote: »
    . . . . . . . . There isn't any way to see the name of the seller, is there?

    That's a good thing no rich elites can play favorites and if someone is just using it for storage they won't be bothered about something they don't want sold, lastly I think you mean you want to bargian but I think they wanted to make something along those lines but without talking to anyone

    A hot time event item from a few months ago is not worth 20mil; that's the only reason why I'm haggling. There are some really ridiculous prices. But I think you answered my question: they aren't placing the hot time item because they want to sell, they're using it as storage.

    The seller certainly has the bulk of power in this auction house, and I only hope this does not lead to a worsened inflation. Don't misunderstand me, as a seller I do appreciate the fact that I won't be haggled for ridiculously low prices. But I am slightly concerned at the possible consequences.


    KawaiiEvee wrote: »
    Why should bids be canceled? All it does is inconvenience the seller over the fickle nature of the buyer. One doesn't simply "offer" to buy something, then back off because they found a cheaper item. That is rude, and an inconvenience to the bidding system. Which ideally, is what an automated system is suppose to prevent.

    I suppose a compromise is a 2 minute cancellation period, but other than that, don't bid.

    Also the problem on that is I didn't know how it worked at first and when I clicked to see what it did it auto took it and I started freaking, so I tried to see if the persons name was there but to no avail.... (don't ask how I didn't know even though it prompts, state of confusion ok..) So now my bid is going for 10m thing I don't even want and can't cancel it which I find really awful. Or it should at least display the persons name so I can talk to them about it.

    Plus I'd be fine with people personally withdrawing their offer, its not like it didn't happen before this came out, so nothing new.

    I do understand money being taken out before the purchase, so they can't be one of those people who offer but come back to you saying "Oh I don't have the money right now" which can be quite annoying sometimes... asking yourself why are they offering like 10m if they only have 3m. Most times I wait on them til they gather money though, unless its a new item that's really wanted/popular. Overall, love the new system, just a few fixes would make it greater and not so annoying to use.

    Because withdrawing is a jerk move in both situations. The commonness of an impolite or immoral action doesn't excuse any one or group of individuals from the responsibility not to perform said action.

    The difference here is even more clear, since it is an impromptu agreement to pay for it via an automatic system, not a simple exchange of messaging that can easily be reverted. (Which essentially seems akin to accepting someone's bid, requesting a meet up place, then getting there to be informed that the buyer has bought the item cheaper.)

    I sympathize with you in this case, but why a 10 million gold item? If one wishes to test it, then I believe attempting on a lower priced item would be just as efficient, or an item someone wishes for. Although if you were testing the 9,999,999, then I appreciate it, and consider it unfortunate.

    I would suggest for the game to implement a small period of time through which bids can be canceled.

    Although looking at further info, it seems past bids can be saved. So perhaps I am wrong here. Perhaps for bidding, it can go to the previous bid, upwards of three times.

    I'm sorry Bliss. I agree with you on a great many other things, and I hope that what I am going to say is not misinterpreted (because I do respect you), but I will have to disagree with you outright on this.

    Buying and selling is an equivalent exchange. The seller has an item that they want to get rid of, and the buyer wants that item and will pay gold for it. The seller, in this case, can change their mind anytime, take back an item out of the auction house and re-implement it for a different bid range. The buyer, however, is not permitted to change their mind like the seller is. Right of the bat, you can see that this is not an equivalent exchange; one person has more power than the other.

    Why is it unfair or a jerk move for the buyer to change their mind? The seller does not have exclusive rights to the buyer's money bags; that gold is the buyer's property, not the seller's. Nor does the seller have exclusive rights to sell item A; plenty of other people also have item A and have the right to sell it if they wish. There is always going to be competition in an economy, and you will always have to compete with others in both buying and selling items. It is the very heart of a free market. Insisting that it is not fair that you have to compete with people selling Item A for cheaper is like insisting that it is not fair that other people exist to compete against. Until the trade happens, a seller does not have any dibs on the buyer's money; it is the buyer's property until the trade actually happens.

    A bid is not a promise, it is a proposal. It is not a guaranteed, it is a possibility.

    My parents work at a firm that deals with bids; that's just how it is.

    In a more general sense, I think it is a matter of progression in the dealing.

    In other words, I considered the outright agreement than a last second backing over such reasonings to be immoral, but I should not have liken it to rules that should be reinforced like laws, which is essentially how the auction system works.

    Although, having thought it over for the last few hours, I do rescind much of what I said, considering that bids can seemingly be saved on a small scale, to which I propose that an alternative solution in that if the highest bid is canceled, then the second largest bid will be automatically updated. Perhaps a cancellation duration should be in place. (I would think a few hours would then be appropriate here.)

    But you are right. @WolfAndWolf
    I was being indignant over past issues. My apologies. The moral situation I posed personally beforehand is not quite the moral equivalent to here.

    Edit: I hate when they save drafts.
    WolfandWolfTwelie
  • nevyn25nevyn25
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,135
    Posts: 667
    Member
    came across this beauty earlier on the auction board. it totally won the internet imo xD
    d94CZ03.jpg
    Veylaine
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    Until the trade happens, a seller does not have any dibs on the buyer's money; it is the buyer's property until the trade actually happens.

    A bid is not a promise, it is a proposal. It is not a guaranteed, it is a possibility.

    This would be true in Mabi if both sides, sellers and buyers, could cancel the auction process. At the moment though, only sellers can cancel. For the buyer, it IS a promise. Is this a problem for me? Not really, but I can see how unbalanced it can seem to some.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,735
    Posts: 6,946
    Member
    nevyn25 wrote: »
    came across this beauty earlier on the auction board. it totally won the internet imo xD
    d94CZ03.jpg

    Ah yes, Alexina server has rarest Dead Bee you can find :trollface:
  • ErikaErika
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 256
    Member
    nevyn25 wrote: »
    came across this beauty earlier on the auction board. it totally won the internet imo xD
    d94CZ03.jpg

    What a bargain!
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,645
    Posts: 8,619
    Member
    Yeah but now everyone is going to use it. Rip housing.