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Can we not immediately scream for nerfs?

Comments

  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
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    i havnt faced the boss yet, but i dont mind difficult stuff.
    my only issue with things that are difficult in mabinogi, tend to be things that are just bosses that can 1 hit kill you and you have no protection against. monsters that nerf almost all your skills. Things you gotta go over your head to fight by using pay-to-win gear or pet AIs or having a set of reviving measurements. (also all these battles r rushed now, rushed battles arent enjoyable, how can you enjoy rushing through stuff...)

    the other g bosses were fine to me, im hoping this one is too
    FOXAssassinfennixfox
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,145
    Posts: 366
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    Soll wrote: »
    For the final boss, few tips:
    -Youcannot summon pets in there, so stock up on balloons, potions and other things you need in your inventory instead beforehand. Preparation goes a long way in this one.
    -Use shield of trust after the judgement blades are loaded/while they are crashing down, since it's the red aura after them that kills you. Aim your camera up at him to see the blades properly once you see him load them.

    - You gotta drag his HP down to 79-78% to trigger the cutscene and transformation.
    - Once Transed, keep timing the hammer right and check your HP, since the counter resets if you untrans/die. Use Nova obliteration when you have a good amount of divine blast going (like 10-15 minimum), you'll deal more damage with it. The boss uses lightning rod, but has a crappy aim with it.

    It pains me to say that after circling the coffin fighting him to almost 79% he managed to divine skill lock me from afar right at 80% hp and use his blade....long ways of the coffin. Not sure how he does it all the time but he even got me when i was probably 2 dungeon room lengths away and locked it so I couldn't use divine shield. It is pretty painful when you get so close to the home stretch to get that new transformation.

    I'm not sure how people do damage to him when he keeps spamming those slashes like the grim reaper atop of that AoE + divine skill lock. I can barely get hits in just doing thunder/fireball spamming.
    FOXAssassin
  • LiberateLiberate
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,915
    Posts: 138
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Greta wrote: »

    How it was in old times? :o

    Instead of finding one ideal (which the nerfed version allows you to use an NPC in each town), you had to find 3 ideals. Each town may give you 1-2 freebies, but you must always find a player or 2 (I think in Emain you had to find 3 players) to be an NPCs ideal because they are extremely picky. Sometimes a player must equip certain outfits or weapons, sometimes there's specific skill ranks (and even deny a player if they have other certain skills despite having other skill requirements), and even very specific ages ranges (sometimes 11-13, or 16-18, in extreme cases characters up to 28-45 years old). Of course players also need to be the opposite gender of the NPC in question. The harshness of this quest is that you may fit maybe one or two ideal types at most, and you have to request other players who are capable of being an NPC's ideal, which in turn sometimes players ask for something in return for taking your ideal requests.
    Imaizumifennixfox
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,760
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Did Tagar, she wasn't bad at all. I liked her. The issue I have is regarding the lack of hints (Big white words across the screen indicating what you need to do.)

    I needed to press the Info Button to read of the pillars. This is nonsensical due to ingame logic, where none of the Alban Knights or previous dialogue seemed to have hinted at this being Tagar's weakness, but knock a pillar down and Avelin says "It is working!"

    Like what Avelin? You didn't tell me -removed-! You have no right to utter those words as if you came up with that strategy.

    Please do not dodge the language filter.
    fennixfox
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Did Tagar, she wasn't bad at all. I liked her. The issue I have is regarding the lack of hints (Big white words across the screen indicating what you need to do.)

    I needed to press the Info Button to read of the pillars. This is nonsensical due to ingame logic, where none of the Alban Knights or previous dialogue seemed to have hinted at this being Tagar's weakness, but knock a pillar down and Avelin says "It is working!"

    Like what Avelin? You didn't tell me -removed-! You have no right to utter those words as if you came up with that strategy.

    It would've been better if all the pillar worked (like in the mini raid after) for sure. My general feel for this so far is "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

    There's been a lot of strategy discussion and the few complaining still always have an excuse for why that won't work. Of course it's going to turn toxic, when you say "try this" and then the other person lists off 100 reasons why it won't work instead of just trying it.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,760
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Did Tagar, she wasn't bad at all. I liked her. The issue I have is regarding the lack of hints (Big white words across the screen indicating what you need to do.)

    I needed to press the Info Button to read of the pillars. This is nonsensical due to ingame logic, where none of the Alban Knights or previous dialogue seemed to have hinted at this being Tagar's weakness, but knock a pillar down and Avelin says "It is working!"

    Like what Avelin? You didn't tell me -removed-! You have no right to utter those words as if you came up with that strategy.

    It would've been better if all the pillar worked (like in the mini raid after) for sure. My general feel for this so far is "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

    There's been a lot of strategy discussion and the few complaining still always have an excuse for why that won't work. Of course it's going to turn toxic, when you say "try this" and then the other person lists off 100 reasons why it won't work instead of just trying it.

    The lack of level scaling seems absolutely nightmarish, and I got through as well as I did with my Anchor Rush and Elf Speed. If I knew beforehand the two pillars, I probably would have timed Bachram rush to coincide with his second down state, and work from there.

    I am unsure how other skillsets would fair, but I am not envying our melee focused brethren.
    fennixfox
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Did Tagar, she wasn't bad at all. I liked her. The issue I have is regarding the lack of hints (Big white words across the screen indicating what you need to do.)

    I needed to press the Info Button to read of the pillars. This is nonsensical due to ingame logic, where none of the Alban Knights or previous dialogue seemed to have hinted at this being Tagar's weakness, but knock a pillar down and Avelin says "It is working!"

    Like what Avelin? You didn't tell me -removed-! You have no right to utter those words as if you came up with that strategy.

    It would've been better if all the pillar worked (like in the mini raid after) for sure. My general feel for this so far is "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink"

    There's been a lot of strategy discussion and the few complaining still always have an excuse for why that won't work. Of course it's going to turn toxic, when you say "try this" and then the other person lists off 100 reasons why it won't work instead of just trying it.

    The lack of level scaling seems absolutely nightmarish, and I got through as well as I did with my Anchor Rush and Elf Speed. If I knew beforehand the two pillars, I probably would have timed Bachram rush to coincide with his second down state, and work from there.

    I am unsure how other skillsets would fair, but I am not envying our melee focused brethren.

    I Feel as if my opinion on the difficulty of the story line isn't relevant because 100k+HP on a story boss is pretty harsh slog to get through for most people. It probably should scale to some extent (mostly in the damage the player takes) but overall there's a lot of depth to combat in mabi, and a lot of ways to deal with things that get thrown at you, and really there's 2 choices you can give up and try again when you're stronger, or you can use all the tools you have to get through it.
    fennixfox
  • Donk3yDonk3y
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 122
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    Honestly the only BS boss is the doppleganger. It's a cakewalk if you have final hit, and a complete nightmare if you don't. Took me like 75 minutes to kill it with r1 magnum shot, pretty decent stats (also a 10x catering of that 50 all stat food) using a salvation bow with step 6 red...

    Tagar was easy after you learned what to do. Also the trick with her teleporting skill is that she will teleport to the position you were at when she starts the skill. You can use this to your advantage to position her right by the pillar. Or you could just tank it with wings of eclipse.

    I had no trouble with the golem because it literally took me 30 seconds. I just went past him to that orb thing, hit it, then I lightning rod the golem and that was it... I might have gotten extremely lucky there because I saw a lot of people say that it's actually really hard fight.

    The final boss was actually a really good boss fight, and when you realise that the judgement blades actually don't hurt, it's even easier lol, to escape the crusader skill seal attack you just have to keep your distance, start running the moment he says something about prophecy. I think being somewhere around 1-2 thunder lengths away from him is enough to not get affected. The only bad thing about him is his normal attack, even though he hits it in a completely different direction that you, sometimes it will still hit you. It's hit detection is kinda crap tbh.

    So yeah, the only badly designed boss IMO is the doppleganger, they really went full ritard with it, seriously...
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,760
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    I Feel as if my opinion on the difficulty of the story line isn't relevant because 100k+HP on a story boss is pretty harsh slog to get through for most people. It probably should scale to some extent (mostly in the damage the player takes) but overall there's a lot of depth to combat in mabi, and a lot of ways to deal with things that get thrown at you, and really there's 2 choices you can give up and try again when you're stronger, or you can use all the tools you have to get through it.

    Cannot say I fully disagree. I would be much more forgiving if we were able to team up again. I don't miss the difficulty for the sake of it, but for the incentive it was to get players to group up.

    Though I will say I am greatly humoured if anyone is experiencing trouble with the doppleganger in terms of strategy in terms of the clones, since it is similar to Shadow Cast City and G12
  • SpicencocoSpicencoco
    Mabinogi Rep: 710
    Posts: 7
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    edited July 13, 2018
    The doppelganger was painful and it took me until like the last 30 minutes to realize that I should kill the clones first.
    After that my damage actually does something.
    Spent the first hour bringing it down to 60% and once I figure out the clones part, became a cake walk with FH spam (finish the last 60% within 15ish minutes).
  • SollSoll
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,940
    Posts: 126
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    Donk3y wrote: »
    Honestly the only BS boss is the doppleganger. It's a cakewalk if you have final hit, and a complete nightmare if you don't. Took me like 75 minutes to kill it with r1 magnum shot, pretty decent stats (also a 10x catering of that 50 all stat food) using a salvation bow with step 6 red...
    (...)
    So yeah, the only badly designed boss IMO is the doppleganger, they really went full ritard with it, seriously...

    I did it as an elf. No FH cheap tactics.

    It took me about 20-25 minutes to complete, with demigod + fury of light, divine link on a pet, and chainblades. Having the pet out was an absolute need should you have failed to hit all the switches for the shadow spirit part.

    First lure the doppel away from its clones, kill em off before dragging the doppel back to the center so you can hit the switches quickly.
    Other than that, having 0 clones left so you could do proper damage, even past the regen. i'm almost positive it had something like the kiwi's ''fixed damage'' thing, since when i hit too hard its HP seemed to go up a little bit before stagnating again.

    Sure, the regen was a tad annoying, but it's nothing new. At most, it's a little like g1 glas, shadow cast city, g11 python fight, and the doppelganger fight from the alchemist generation meshed together.

    What people don't seem to understand is that you need proper strategy to go through these, not just brute force.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,760
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    Huh, we were suppose to hit the switches? I just killed the clones again with Chain Sweep.
  • SollSoll
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,940
    Posts: 126
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    Huh, we were suppose to hit the switches? I just killed the clones again with Chain Sweep.

    Hitting the switches prevented the doppel from summonning more clones (thus letting you deal it more damage), and later on, using shadow spirit. I'm almost positive there were pop-up messages concerning this during the fight.
  • ShaeliShaeli
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,430
    Posts: 359
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    The doppleganger fight was probably the least frustrating part for me. I just assumed it was like Shadow Cast City; kill the copies or you can't do damage (they're actually the biggest threat, the 'real' one's alchemy attacks are just a nuisance).

    I was able to slowly overcome its HP regen just by slapping it around with chain blade regular attacks, and a Chain Sweep or two takes care of any more spawned clones. However, it took Final Hit/Way of the Gun to make any significant progress in wearing it down. Took me maybe 10-12 minutes total.

    I may be maxed on skills/stats, but my gear/enchants are trash, and I do like half the damage of the typical whale because I can't drop a billion gold on Current Year Approved endgame-worthy stuff.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
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    Tagar:
    Used mana shield ran around the pillar till it showed up hit the pillar once it came down on her.
    Did that one more time. Spammed firebolt, she died in 5 minutes.
    Golem:
    Used hide walked up and hit the switch mission ended.
    (I even turned off hide and the golem just passively spun in circles and didnt attack)
    Doppleganger:
    Used mana shield and divine link.
    Killed all the clones. Spammed firebolt, It died in 3 minutes or less.
    Talvish:
    I was honestly surprised how weak he was.
    Just ran away everytime he casted something took no damage.
    Spammed lightning rod an firebolt. Probably didn't take longer than 10 minutes.

    The mechanics in this gen were nice.
    Actually made me feel like i needed to do something other than just spam one skill till an enemy died.
    Very much fair and balanced, and despite not caring for this chapter at all g21 was decent enough story wise.
    Caissa
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Huh?

    Tagar had more effective health than Doppel? I would argue Talvish was a confusing boss fight, and that it was far more detrimental to use Nascent Divinity in the end. I would recommend doing what one always has been doing, if one has the output.
  • SheenaSheena
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,515
    Posts: 381
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    Talvish boss fight was a living hell, but in the end is a matter of

    - Die (many times)
    - Learn the times and new trans skills
    - and win.

    All you need is a bunch of nao's stones and learn how to use the new trans skills to get the most of it

    Cater helps alot
  • MeridisMeridis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
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    one thing that still kinda haunts me about the Talvish fight is how to end it. From the messages, it seems like it's based on your amplification. That would also explain why everyone else seemed to finish the fight with him around 50% and I had to work him down to 20%. Problem is, I still suck at amplification. Can't get to max before time runs out on the transformation so I can't do the training for divine blast r5.
  • SheenaSheena
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,515
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    Meridis wrote: »
    one thing that still kinda haunts me about the Talvish fight is how to end it. From the messages, it seems like it's based on your amplification. That would also explain why everyone else seemed to finish the fight with him around 50% and I had to work him down to 20%. Problem is, I still suck at amplification. Can't get to max before time runs out on the transformation so I can't do the training for divine blast r5.

    Oh I thought it was a bug or something, I think i reached that range too, like 20-30%
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,875
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    Meridis wrote: »
    one thing that still kinda haunts me about the Talvish fight is how to end it. From the messages, it seems like it's based on your amplification. That would also explain why everyone else seemed to finish the fight with him around 50% and I had to work him down to 20%. Problem is, I still suck at amplification. Can't get to max before time runs out on the transformation so I can't do the training for divine blast r5.

    If all you need is amplification points, try using Celestial Spike during transformation.

    Each "tick" of damage spike does gives 1 charge.
    So even if all you do is spike things, as long as they don't die before 10 ticks are done, it'd take 5 spikes to get up to 50 charge.
    So that'd be 100 seconds of cooldown, with no hiccups, which can help.

    As an alternative, you can use Judgment Blade on a large group of enemies.
    The more you hit at once, the more amplification charge you build up. Maybe even over 10, if you hit a massive group of enemies.
    MeridisHellkaizer