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PayPal transactions, and a disagreement. thoughts?

FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
Mabinogi Rep: 2,055
Posts: 156
Member
edited July 18, 2018 in General Chat
So a little backstory on this whole scenario. i contacted one of my friends on my list and a old guild member of my old guild i was apart of about selling her some reforges as im in desperate means of some gold. she provided me the details but then the problem arose of how she wanted to go about the Transaction which tipped me off and raised some alarm bells. and then she got into her reasoning which is detailed in the conversation provided in the links below.

For privacy and safety reason for both sides, i will have the names of both parties blurred out. as to protect the identity. i do not wish any ill will on either side especially hers. however i do wish to bring the topic to light and get your thoughts on the situation and whether or not the transaction method she is proposing should be allowed on the game.

for understanding of who said who.
Me: Blue
Her: Red
Green: censoring error now corrected [was names that i overlooked in regards to blanking out]

part 1
http://prntscr.com/k7dxmy
Part 2
http://prntscr.com/k7e0xs
part 3 [Fixed Link]
[link removed]
http://prntscr.com/k855zo
Part 4
http://prntscr.com/k7e6kr
part 5
http://prntscr.com/k7e8nz
Part 6
http://prntscr.com/k7eagw
Part 7
http://prntscr.com/k7ecge

frankly to me her trying to reject a ingame trade and only do a paypal trade and then give me the gold makes me feel like shes trying to scam me. as anyone who genuinely cares about the other parties concerns would recognise it and do what they need to in order to ensure the other party feels safe during the transaction. a paypal trade like that isnt the way to do it as who to say i will or will not get the gold after i give the money to her? as wherein if we did ingame transaction its she only gets the reforges when i get the gold as they are transferred at the same time.

and what are your thoughts and impressions on this? do you think Paypal trades should be allowed or what? i wanted to hear your thoughts. and if you want what you think of the conversation.

Edit: thank you to Aquasol for pointing out to me the names. i ended up overlooking. ive taken the liberty of fixing the error and blanked out the guild name for good measure as well. so Link 3 is back up and viewable. Apologies to those who replied after the link was taken down thus not receiving the full picture.

Comments

  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    edited July 17, 2018
    this is gonna get taken down almost immediately but I know that situation, it's safe in terms of not getting scammed (Selling gold etc relies entirely on reputation, they're not going to ruin it to scam someone for 10m) what's not safe is you're essentially paying someone to use stolen credit cards for you. It's incredibly illegal in every way imaginable.

    Edit because I finished reading it, the issue they have is they want to buy 2x the reforges from you for half the price, something that's doable through their method.

    double edit I'm confused what their problem is now actually. They don't want a prepaid code, but they do want you to illegally purchase nx to sell them reforges?
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    So....if what I'm understanding is right, that person wants you to sell gold in return for getting $ on paypal to buy nx from the gold website. Therefore, he can buy the reforges himself, at a cheap price because that gold website offers such deals.
    frankly to me her trying to reject a ingame trade and only do a paypal trade and then give me the gold makes me feel like shes trying to scam me. as anyone who genuinely cares about the other parties concerns would recognise it and do what they need to in order to ensure the other party feels safe during the transaction.

    and what are your thoughts and impressions on this? do you think Paypal trades should be allowed or what? i wanted to hear your thoughts. and if you want what you think of the conversation.
    IMO, he's legit and not trying to scam you. He already explained several times why he wants paypal instead, and even offered to give tons of vouchers if needed.

    However, trying to buy reforges and nx using such methods is another matter. Also, to answer your question, paypal trades are already not allowed according to the rules, so.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 17, 2018
    ShouK wrote: »
    So....if what I'm understanding is right, that person wants you to sell gold in return for getting $ on paypal to buy nx from the gold website. Therefore, he can buy the reforges himself, at a cheap price because that gold website offers such deals.
    frankly to me her trying to reject a ingame trade and only do a paypal trade and then give me the gold makes me feel like shes trying to scam me. as anyone who genuinely cares about the other parties concerns would recognise it and do what they need to in order to ensure the other party feels safe during the transaction.

    and what are your thoughts and impressions on this? do you think Paypal trades should be allowed or what? i wanted to hear your thoughts. and if you want what you think of the conversation.
    IMO, he's legit and not trying to scam you. He already explained several times why he wants paypal instead, and even offered to give tons of vouchers if needed.

    However, trying to buy reforges and nx using such methods is another matter. Also, to answer your question, paypal trades are already not allowed according to the rules, so.

    Still not a good idea, OP wants to sell reforges to make her cash, if they don't want reforges, either ask for another cash shop item or just decline the offer. Insisting on getting straight cash when the OP made a completely different offer is more than suspicious and it is far better to be safe than fall into a trap. As for OP, you did the right thing. Buying gold is against the TOS and is punishable by permanent ban.
    Foxgirlkatie
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,105
    Posts: 422
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Liyeta wrote: »
    [text removed]
    Please do not spread FUD. Thank you.

    To answer OP, such trades are not allowed, and you’re right to be suspicious of that transaction.
    FoxgirlkatieVeylaine
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,505
    Posts: 668
    Member
    I only read the first two SSs and that sounds like a heck of a headache...
  • FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,055
    Posts: 156
    Member
    Aquasol wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    [text removed]
    Please do not spread FUD. Thank you.

    To answer OP, such trades are not allowed, and you’re right to be suspicious of that transaction.

    Hi Aquasol. OP here. i wish to ask as i notice you removed the Part 3 Link. i wish to ask what it was that resorted to its removal. that way i can see if i can fix it to make it more forum friendly if its ok with you. until i receive confirmation from you i will be refraining from reposting that link. i wish people to get the full story as much as possible as to be able to draw their own conclusions based on accurate information . Thank you.

    @GTCvActium
    Thank you for that tidbit of info at the end. if what you say is true then i dodged a bullet there. i wouldnt even want to recieve a 1 day ban from mabi. means too much to me. a Perma ban would be devastating. i figured it was disallowed and there may be a punishment involved just never knew how harsh.

    tho my main reason for declining the transaction via paypal is as you saw that its too prone to scamming and some of the actions/words were tripping alarms in my head. especially since id be losing real world money as opposed to ingame currency or a ingame item if a scam were to take place. which can inflict harsher problems for me such as less funds for the month as i tend to not have as much left at around this time of the month for food or transportation. i was lucky to even manage to spare $50 CAD worth of Nx a day or 2 before G21 part 2 dropped for nao stones incase i needed Revives. i only used up roughly a quarter of that nx(no thanks to that talvish fight) thats where the nx i intended to use on the Reforges came from.
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,765
    Posts: 1,751
    Member
    edited July 17, 2018
    stick to selling dyes imo.... those credit card thieves seem to not bother with them and they're more profitable than reforges now at least in my server.... a dye can sell for up to 500k and costs 990 nx while a fine reforge is 450k-ish and costs over 1k NX. The only downside is they sell slower
    courtneyyImaizumiWanderIustZephyrmaru
  • WanderIustWanderIust
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,150
    Posts: 118
    Member
    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    I only read the first two SSs and that sounds like a heck of a headache...

    Same.

    I think the names need to be obscured better because I could definitely make out what those names are.
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    Arjune wrote: »
    stick to selling dyes imo.... those credit card thieves seem to not bother with them and they're more profitable than reforges now at least in my server.... a dye can sell for up to 500k and costs 990 nx while a fine reforge is 450k-ish and costs over 1k NX. The only downside is they sell slower

    Yeah, that's a great one. Even people like me who don't dye their clothes much need them from time to time, so it is never a bad purchase and will always be relevant sooner or later.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,605
    Posts: 478
    Member
    edited July 18, 2018
    Assuming that link 3 didn't have a sentence or two that radically changes how I'm supposed to interpret this, their argument (though typed atrociously) has merits.

    Their story (whether or not they attempt to purchase things cheaper via a website like ShouK says) is that because cards (and ergo NX and ergo items) can be stolen/defrauded, going via Paypal ensures that the only one that loses money would be the owner of the Paypal (NX transaction person in this case). However, you can just use aforementioned cards to charge Paypal anyway so that's not relevant...

    Once again -unless link 3 mentions something- I don't see any rates being negotiated, but if they're offering way more bang for your buck than even the gold sellers, that's an alarm bell. Likewise, if you already PURCHASED THE NX, and don't have ANY OTHER FUNDS then they aren't the purchaser for you; they either expect you to indirectly make another investment into Nexon, or to magically return your NX to your card to give to them.

    Other than that, in-game>real world is sooper bad, and vouchers mean nothing unless you both have known the person for a lot longer than each other (only if one did not introduce you to the other, though), in my opinion.

    I think their arguments make sense to them, but don't actually hold up to logic. Added to that, you're at the risk of being scammed, and you're at the risk of being banned.

    I suggest against it; if people aren't willing to accept your (completely reasonable, in my opinion) terms then it's better to just move on.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Regardless if the person with the NX had stolen it, it is still far better to deal with an in-game transaction then it is to involve real life monetary transactions. If you obtained your items via the in-game trading system you're generally safe because there would be little reasonable doubt that the person you're buying from had obtained it by unfair means if the person does not seem like an alt (proper equipment, name, out of beginner stages). Unless you're blatantly guilty of going against the TOS, then its still 'safe' to buy reforges and other NX items. The issue of supporting these practices by buying from these sources is still there, but in accordance to the rules and guidelines, you are doing nothing wrong by selling or buying cash items in-game.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,515
    Posts: 8,206
    Member
    edited July 18, 2018
    So people are actually starting to believe that reforges are being purchased with stolen credit cards. And...Nexon condones identity theft essentially and so do the players who buy from those reforge bots.

    Oh boy.
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,105
    Posts: 422
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Aquasol wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    [text removed]
    Please do not spread FUD. Thank you.

    To answer OP, such trades are not allowed, and you’re right to be suspicious of that transaction.

    Hi Aquasol. OP here. i wish to ask as i notice you removed the Part 3 Link. i wish to ask what it was that resorted to its removal. that way i can see if i can fix it to make it more forum friendly if its ok with you. until i receive confirmation from you i will be refraining from reposting that link. i wish people to get the full story as much as possible as to be able to draw their own conclusions based on accurate information . Thank you.

    My apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but there were names in the third image.

    Anyways, since there seems to be some confusion and/or assumptions being tossed around: Nexon does not, nor will ever, condone identity theft. Let’s please try to avoid baseless claims, or the spreading of fear and panic.
    Veylaine
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    edited July 18, 2018
    Aquasol wrote: »

    My apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but there were names in the third image.

    Anyways, since there seems to be some confusion and/or assumptions being tossed around: Nexon does not, nor will ever, condone identity theft. Let’s please try to avoid baseless claims, or the spreading of fear and panic.

    This isn't the first time these claims were being tossed around even one claim where nexon would support crime lol, a bit similar to that thread I am going to assume this one will also get locked due to FUD derailing.
  • FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,055
    Posts: 156
    Member
    Assuming that link 3 didn't have a sentence or two that radically changes how I'm supposed to interpret this, their argument (though typed atrociously) has merits.

    Their story (whether or not they attempt to purchase things cheaper via a website like ShouK says) is that because cards (and ergo NX and ergo items) can be stolen/defrauded, going via Paypal ensures that the only one that loses money would be the owner of the Paypal (NX transaction person in this case). However, you can just use aforementioned cards to charge Paypal anyway so that's not relevant...

    Once again -unless link 3 mentions something- I don't see any rates being negotiated, but if they're offering way more bang for your buck than even the gold sellers, that's an alarm bell. Likewise, if you already PURCHASED THE NX, and don't have ANY OTHER FUNDS then they aren't the purchaser for you; they either expect you to indirectly make another investment into Nexon, or to magically return your NX to your card to give to them.

    Other than that, in-game>real world is sooper bad, and vouchers mean nothing unless you both have known the person for a lot longer than each other (only if one did not introduce you to the other, though), in my opinion.

    I think their arguments make sense to them, but don't actually hold up to logic. Added to that, you're at the risk of being scammed, and you're at the risk of being banned.

    I suggest against it; if people aren't willing to accept your (completely reasonable, in my opinion) terms then it's better to just move on.

    i have gone ahead and fixed the 3rd link thanks to Aquasol's confirmation on what was overlooked. here is the link for good measure.

    http://prntscr.com/k855zo
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,515
    Posts: 8,206
    Member
    Well I will say this again, we won't ever know the truth. But here's something to think about; since boots can't really gold farm like they used to... how are they still getting all that gold? Maybe events but that's not really that profitable anymore. I am not trying to cause a panic. But it makes you wonder and to me my suspicions make since even if there is no proof.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited July 18, 2018
    @Gaea
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Not really. I don't buy from those stores anyway but it's nice of you to assume I do. There's plenty of other things that could be going on rather than people having their identities stolen for GP in a relatively obscure MMO. Just a quick idea would be people cashing out steam marketplace goods, while against ToS and probably risky it's more sound than what op is suggesting.


    I like how you didn't reply to this.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Trythis wrote: »
    @Gaea
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Not really. I don't buy from those stores anyway but it's nice of you to assume I do. There's plenty of other things that could be going on rather than people having their identities stolen for GP in a relatively obscure MMO. Just a quick idea would be people cashing out steam marketplace goods, while against ToS and probably risky it's more sound than what op is suggesting.


    I like how you didn't reply to this.

    to add to this a little more, there's bots that farm free trading cards on steam and sell them for steam wallet funds, selling items that are in cash shops to players in MMOs on steam gives you gold in said mmo, and then the gold is sold off to effectively take cash out of steam wallet and into paypal funds.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,515
    Posts: 8,206
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Trythis wrote: »
    @Gaea
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    Not really. I don't buy from those stores anyway but it's nice of you to assume I do. There's plenty of other things that could be going on rather than people having their identities stolen for GP in a relatively obscure MMO. Just a quick idea would be people cashing out steam marketplace goods, while against ToS and probably risky it's more sound than what op is suggesting.


    I like how you didn't reply to this.

    to add to this a little more, there's bots that farm free trading cards on steam and sell them for steam wallet funds, selling items that are in cash shops to players in MMOs on steam gives you gold in said mmo, and then the gold is sold off to effectively take cash out of steam wallet and into paypal funds.

    I guess you can supplement it that way.
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    Oho, I see how it is. If we talk about the real reason, our post gets deleted.

    To answer your post OP, the reason the person was wary of you was because he was afraid of you being a Snow Imp. You see, Snow Imps have been going around lately using Lorna's Gold Boxes to buy massive amounts of Giant Potatoes. You might be wondering, "How can Snow Imps make so much selling Giant Potatoes with Lorna's Gold Boxes" and that's a very valid question. The answer is that they go to make a Banner Imp and sell all of their Giant Potatoes in ch1 Peaca Dungeon for 70-80% of what the natural price is. Because of this, Brown Foxes tend to buy them without paying much attention, and then the Banner Imp will give all of his Alby Arena Coins to the Snow Imp before Nexon inevitably hits the Banner Imp with Spear of God. The Snow Imp will then take all of the Alby Arena Coins and use them to purchase a Stiff Stimulating R7 Bipennis.

    Any novice Red Succubus who is trying to sell Giant Potatoes the normal way can't keep up with the market and should be warned to invest in either the Hot Springs Monkey Fur market or try buying and selling Alpaca Wool instead. If you are going to sell Giant Potatoes anyway, I highly recommend you only sell them to Mysterious Man you trust, or at the very least sell them to Young Tarlach and not Adult Ruairi.

    And whatever you do, only tell Succubus Kristell when you're selling them, because otherwise you'll get Monkey Mask Akule at your doorstep at 4 in the morning asking if he can buy one more Giant Potato for his Barbaric Fox Scythe...because Potato Gathering is his only coping mechanism for Goddess Morrighan and him fighting and his extended time sleeping on the Single Sun Bed.
    BronzebreakTairikuDANIarts