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Dungeon End Rewards Should be Changed

OwntrolfOwntrolf
Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
Posts: 119
Member
in General Chat
Dungeon end reward chests should scale to how many chests/players there are for example
1 Chests = 4x rates
2 Chests = 2x rates
3 Chests = 1.3x Rates
4 Chests = 1x

As it currently is, there is no incentive to run dungeons without 4 players(ALTS) as you will be wasting chests if you were to have 3,2,1 players.

Doing this would make altnogi less of a problem
  1. Should end reward chests have higher rates for fewer players?31 votes
    1. Yes
       74% (23 votes)
    2. No
       26% (8 votes)

Comments

  • LhakrymaLhakryma
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 44
    Member
    People already are doing most stuff alone, this would only encourage more soloing
    GretaSherriBlissfulkillsinthya5345
  • OwntrolfOwntrolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 119
    Member
    edited December 7, 2019
    Lhakryma wrote: »
    People already are doing most stuff alone, this would only encourage more soloing

    People doing the dungeons are already soloing with 3 alts or guildie only
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    edited December 7, 2019
    IMHO Dungeons should not be «solo-able» but require Team-Work Battle-Strategy to get through.
    With literal, actual, co-ordinated timing of skills. Remember the Fusion-Bolt quest that required the right timing to get fusion ?

    I say we need «team-skills» that create «Burst-Procs» when timed together properly. Let all other attacks deal literally only 1s to the spawns.
    If a PT-member disconnects, and does not reconnect within a certain amount of time, then the dungeon should open for people from outside to join the run.
    (I was originally thinking to let there be an A.I. clone to be created in place of them, but, waiting for 15m might be too long, and it still might defeat the purpose of promoting team-work, not to mention the fact that good A.I. is extremely difficult and time-consuming to code, especially for complicated tasks that contain lots of variables, such as real-time combat, although...)


    Edit/Addendum : I should probably mention that the entire video is CGI (and consider how many years ago it was and how «realistic» to viewers the Special-Effects were in Star-Wars when the first/original one came out). Like I mentioned... good combat A.I. is a LONG way off.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,500
    Posts: 2,609
    Member
    Owntrolf wrote: »
    Lhakryma wrote: »
    People already are doing most stuff alone, this would only encourage more soloing

    People doing the dungeons are already soloing with 3 alts or guildie only

    First of all, don't speak for everyone. I know plenty of people who run dungeons with friends and strangers alike.
    Second, there is nothing wrong with running dungeons with guildmates?? Lol

    This would only make people want to solo dungeons, killing them off more than the 4-player-only "revamp" did.
    LhakrymaGreta
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,385
    Posts: 637
    Member
    Owntrolf wrote: »
    Dungeon end reward chests should scale to how many chests/players there are for example
    1 Chests = 4x rates
    2 Chests = 2x rates
    3 Chests = 1.3x Rates
    4 Chests = 1x

    As it currently is, there is no incentive to run dungeons without 4 players (cousins) as you will be wasting chests if you were to have 3,2,1 players.

    Doing this would make altnogi less of a problem

    Fixed the OP.

    lol :D
  • OwntrolfOwntrolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 119
    Member
    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    Owntrolf wrote: »
    Dungeon end reward chests should scale to how many chests/players there are for example
    1 Chests = 4x rates
    2 Chests = 2x rates
    3 Chests = 1.3x Rates
    4 Chests = 1x

    As it currently is, there is no incentive to run dungeons without 4 players (cousins) as you will be wasting chests if you were to have 3,2,1 players.

    Doing this would make altnogi less of a problem

    Fixed the OP.

    lol :D

    accurate
  • KingEphyKingEphy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,695
    Posts: 144
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    IMHO Dungeons should not be «solo-able» but require Team-Work Battle-Strategy to get through.
    With literal, actual, co-ordinated timing of skills. Remember the Fusion-Bolt quest that required the right timing to get fusion ?
    .

    Soooo, you want dungeons to be the equivalent of apostle raids? That's what it sounds like you're saying, more or less.

    Greta
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,965
    Posts: 6,824
    Member
    KingEphy wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    IMHO Dungeons should not be «solo-able» but require Team-Work Battle-Strategy to get through.
    With literal, actual, co-ordinated timing of skills. Remember the Fusion-Bolt quest that required the right timing to get fusion ?
    .

    Soooo, you want dungeons to be the equivalent of apostle raids? That's what it sounds like you're saying, more or less.

    I hate Apostle raids so big no no.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 1,226
    Member
    I at least would like to see dungeons have a something special about them that is in league of their own from shadow missions.

    Because shadow missions have everything better than dungeons besides some exclusive rewards you get from the chests from dungeons.

    I see no real reason to even touch dungeons other than for single bits of loot that are either too damned rare or worthless in the long run.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,055
    Posts: 513
    Member
    edited December 8, 2019
    Honestly, as things stand people are just multiboxing. I don't do it myself as it feels kinda cheater-ish, but I've run with folks who do.

    I think it's kinda silly that a single person goes through all the same effort that requires 4 and gets less of a reward.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,500
    Posts: 2,609
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    I at least would like to see dungeons have a something special about them that is in league of their own from shadow missions.

    Because shadow missions have everything better than dungeons besides some exclusive rewards you get from the chests from dungeons.

    I see no real reason to even touch dungeons other than for single bits of loot that are either too damned rare or worthless in the long run.

    I'd like to see more dungeon mechanics besides open chest, fight stuff, get key, open room, find the right chest out of 3 mimics, etc.

    Also again, I cannot stress this enough (this isn't @ you, its pretty much everyone)..
    OP just tried to compare running dungeons with alts with running with guildmates.. what even? o.O am i missing something here
  • courtneyycourtneyy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,990
    Posts: 97
    Member
    I absolutely love the idea that the OP suggested. I never thought of something like that being done before.

    I prefer to play the game solo, but occasionally I will run stuff with guildmates if the opportunity arises. However, if I'm running dungeons to make $$$ I do it on my own typically, just because I like to do things in a particular way on my own time at my own pace. It would fantastic if when I solo a dungeon/shadow mission I'd have a higher return rate by solo'ing. Makes more sense - I do all the work, I should get a reward.

    As for the game becoming more 'team' oriented, I hate it, and I just take part in those activities less or not at all. If the entirety of mabinogi became nothing but a team-oriented game, I would probably quit for good.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    Have to admit that I did not put too much thought into my response. How-ever, I remember when the combat-system used to be very balanced. Things became completely whack after the introduction of reforges and the implementation of the fighter-talent (not that it's any fault of the talent itself).

    Basically, the dungeons were once designed in such a manner where a four-man dungeon would have up to four (or sometimes five) opponents «agro» at a time, and each party member took care of their own «individual» opponent. It was «team-work» in the sense that everybody held their own in the proper timing to not get knocked out as he went one-on-one, whilst the other team-members were also fighting one-on-one, and not «team-work» in the sense that you required having everyone «gang up» on ONE single target. If something like that could be set up it still doesn't bar the option to solo (considering how there are now so many Crowd-Control skill-options like Lullaby).

    The developers of an on-line browser-game where I am active on eventually changed their Equipment-Enhancement process from one that gave skill-ups to your weapons by percentage-chance into just changing it over to flat-out Experience-per-Skill-Level. So, essentially, if something similar was implemented here, Dungeon-Rewards (especially for long-ass dungeons) would not necessarily be based on some ridiculously low random-drop-percentage, but, rather, be based on dungeon-(experience-)points-accumulation. Run it 1000x to get the extremely rare books/items, 100x for the not-so-rares, 10x for the occasional chance of a rare drop, and every run always having default basic minimum-rewards and perhaps some crafting material.

    Dungeons other than Alby Hard-Mode Advanced and Rundall Hard-Mode Advanced, Peaca and Phantasm are pretty much a a joke as they are now (and even Elite-Pass Shadow-Missions are no longer «must join» like it once was). Also, there does not seem to be any (or much) «in-between» difficulty levels (in terms of Dungeons & Shadow-Missions) going from Elite to Tech Duinn missions (which are apparently comparable to Phantasm-level difficulty)... other than perhaps Alban-Knights Training Grounds from Adv-Hard. For the most part, as things are now, I often don't even need to do anything if there are other people in Party since the vast majority of the active population seems to be able to insta-AoE-OHKO everything anyway, even in the Lords-Caverns, etc., in which case I just make it a point to grab all of the gold (and Diamonds) that everyone leaves behind.

    Even spawning those Master-Level Bandits in Commercing is no longer the «threat» that they used to be since they can be «solo'd» fairly easily these days... where-as in the past you were pretty much guaranteed to get looted if you didn't have a strong Caravan with you (this is also evidenced by the fact that Outlaw-Hunting is no longer profitable since the maximum amounts to recover are now down to maybe around 3K Ducats where-as there used to be bounties wirth 80K+).

    If anything, I think they've gone a bit «over-board» with «multi-agro» in the newer content, such that the game has become far less about «strategic decisions» and more about getting your stats maxed as much and as quickly as possible in order to spam AoE-OHKO's if possible. Even Taillteann Defensive-Battle can probably be solo'd these days even on Elite (other than needing a couple of extra computers and alt-characters to be able to enter the mission). Rock-Paper-Scissors-style combat is now : R.I.P.
    KingEphy wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    IMHO Dungeons should not be «solo-able» but require Team-Work Battle-Strategy to get through.
    With literal, actual, co-ordinated timing of skills. Remember the Fusion-Bolt quest that required the right timing to get fusion ?
    .

    Soooo, you want dungeons to be the equivalent of apostle raids? That's what it sounds like you're saying, more or less.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 49,955
    Posts: 7,603
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Edit/Addendum : I should probably mention that the entire video is CGI (and consider how many years ago it was and how «realistic» to viewers the Special-Effects were in Star-Wars when the first/original one came out). Like I mentioned... good combat A.I. is a LONG way off.

    Yeah it's pretty obvious it's cgi. Albeit some pretty good cgi, but still cgi. I did have to do a bit of a double take though. =P
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,280
    Posts: 7,657
    Member
    I was doing the Fidoh quest for March Song yesterday and the end reward chest was very disappointing. About 300 gold a 50 stam pot and a mongo cap. A reward fitting of 2008.

    Also, all the halls where there would be gold chests in the dungeon were empty. It really takes the life and incentive out from doing dungeon runs.

    I know we recently had that dungeon event, but overall there should be better rewards out of dunegeons.
  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,230
    Posts: 232
    Member
    Permanent 10x droprate for NA to make up for lack of players in a game with droprates designed for KR playerbase size, multiple/divide spawns and boss(es)/boss HP based on player count ala Sidhe, re-uncap to 8 players with scaling. Optionally remove hallways and put all spawns into 3 rooms as multiple waves ala Peaca/Coill abyss to remove all tedium of hallways doors deadends etc.

    Simple solutions to simple problems.
    GretaSherriRadiant DawnKitini
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,379
    Member
    Owntrolf wrote: »
    Dungeon end reward chests should scale to how many chests/players there are for example
    1 Chests = 4x rates
    2 Chests = 2x rates
    3 Chests = 1.3x Rates
    4 Chests = 1x

    As it currently is, there is no incentive to run dungeons without 4 players(ALTS) as you will be wasting chests if you were to have 3,2,1 players.

    Doing this would make altnogi less of a problem

    That could have unintended consequences. Maybe they should just do a blanket improvement in dungeon drops regardless of party size.
  • LhakrymaLhakryma
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 44
    Member
    Policroma wrote: »
    Honestly, as things stand people are just multiboxing. I don't do it myself as it feels kinda cheater-ish, but I've run with folks who do.

    I think it's kinda silly that a single person goes through all the same effort that requires 4 and gets less of a reward.

    There's an easy fix for that: descend the banhammer upon people that multi client :P
  • LhakrymaLhakryma
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 44
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Have to admit that I did not put too much thought into my response. How-ever, I remember when the combat-system used to be very balanced. Things became completely whack after the introduction of reforges and the implementation of the fighter-talent (not that it's any fault of the talent itself).

    Basically, the dungeons were once designed in such a manner where a four-man dungeon would have up to four (or sometimes five) opponents «agro» at a time, and each party member took care of their own «individual» opponent. It was «team-work» in the sense that everybody held their own in the proper timing to not get knocked out as he went one-on-one, whilst the other team-members were also fighting one-on-one, and not «team-work» in the sense that you required having everyone «gang up» on ONE single target. If something like that could be set up it still doesn't bar the option to solo (considering how there are now so many Crowd-Control skill-options like Lullaby).

    The developers of an on-line browser-game where I am active on eventually changed their Equipment-Enhancement process from one that gave skill-ups to your weapons by percentage-chance into just changing it over to flat-out Experience-per-Skill-Level. So, essentially, if something similar was implemented here, Dungeon-Rewards (especially for long-ass dungeons) would not necessarily be based on some ridiculously low random-drop-percentage, but, rather, be based on dungeon-(experience-)points-accumulation. Run it 1000x to get the extremely rare books/items, 100x for the not-so-rares, 10x for the occasional chance of a rare drop, and every run always having default basic minimum-rewards and perhaps some crafting material.

    Dungeons other than Alby Hard-Mode Advanced and Rundall Hard-Mode Advanced, Peaca and Phantasm are pretty much a a joke as they are now (and even Elite-Pass Shadow-Missions are no longer «must join» like it once was). Also, there does not seem to be any (or much) «in-between» difficulty levels (in terms of Dungeons & Shadow-Missions) going from Elite to Tech Duinn missions (which are apparently comparable to Phantasm-level difficulty)... other than perhaps Alban-Knights Training Grounds from Adv-Hard. For the most part, as things are now, I often don't even need to do anything if there are other people in Party since the vast majority of the active population seems to be able to insta-AoE-OHKO everything anyway, even in the Lords-Caverns, etc., in which case I just make it a point to grab all of the gold (and Diamonds) that everyone leaves behind.

    Even spawning those Master-Level Bandits in Commercing is no longer the «threat» that they used to be since they can be «solo'd» fairly easily these days... where-as in the past you were pretty much guaranteed to get looted if you didn't have a strong Caravan with you (this is also evidenced by the fact that Outlaw-Hunting is no longer profitable since the maximum amounts to recover are now down to maybe around 3K Ducats where-as there used to be bounties wirth 80K+).

    If anything, I think they've gone a bit «over-board» with «multi-agro» in the newer content, such that the game has become far less about «strategic decisions» and more about getting your stats maxed as much and as quickly as possible in order to spam AoE-OHKO's if possible. Even Taillteann Defensive-Battle can probably be solo'd these days even on Elite (other than needing a couple of extra computers and alt-characters to be able to enter the mission). Rock-Paper-Scissors-style combat is now : R.I.P.
    KingEphy wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    IMHO Dungeons should not be «solo-able» but require Team-Work Battle-Strategy to get through.
    With literal, actual, co-ordinated timing of skills. Remember the Fusion-Bolt quest that required the right timing to get fusion ?
    .

    Soooo, you want dungeons to be the equivalent of apostle raids? That's what it sounds like you're saying, more or less.

    Those were the good time! But remember, back then (G1-G3), if you were endgame, you could get 2shot by most mid game enemies if you weren't careful. I think THAT was the best incentive for teamwork.

    Nowadays you barely get damaged, so people don't really care :/