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Im seeing less and less on Alexina server

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  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,900
    Posts: 204
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    Helsa wrote: »
    These particians are arbitray and have nothng to do with spreading out load.

    Where are you getting this information from? Regardless, adding a new "Server" was a better look, back then, than if there had been 20 channels on 3 servers but never getting to play on the most populated one with the good shops. People actually had a chance to get to channel 1. Now you could probably get away with adding 25 channels to 1 server, because the auction house exists, but it doesn't stop the merge issues we had and it doesn't help game longevity.
    Twelie wrote: »
    they want to do late midgame/endgame content- and there just aren't enough strong/willing players for that.

    If there's a group of people who want to do mid/late/endgame content, they should get strong enough to do it. It should only take about 4 decently strong (r1 related skills, special upgraded) players who know what they're doing to clear most things. Endgame is a problem with balance not population. No matter how many players the server has, Illusion Zombies and all those gimmicky stat checks still exist. With raids, if it wasn't for that discord raid group that exists on Nao, a lot of them would time-out. Even then, 3 players with Techniques could trio Avalon Raids if they were prepped.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,745
    Posts: 4,976
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    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    These particians are arbitray and have nothng to do with spreading out load.

    Where are you getting this information from? Regardless, adding a new "Server" was a better look, back then, than if there had been 20 channels on 3 servers but never getting to play on the most populated one with the good shops. People actually had a chance to get to channel 1. Now you could probably get away with adding 25 channels to 1 server, because the auction house exists, but it doesn't stop the merge issues we had and it doesn't help game longevity.

    If you have several database partitions spread over some number of servers, changing the number of partitions still has the load handled by the same number of servers. The traffic in and out of the data centre is the same whether you have 4 partitions of 7 channels each, or 1 partition of 28 channels. A large part of the anxiety about this is because Nexon decided to label the Mabinogi database partitions as "servers". This was a misnomer and is their fault and not that of any player.

    The naming issue, was anticipated, before the merge, by everyone; nearly all discussion, about merging, then centred on it. This might've been the reason Nexon dawdled on the merge for so long. That it went through shows that, in Nexon's view, the separate partitions constituting Nao were in danger of or were actually effecting the bottom line. Those conditions are, at the very least, closer now, for Alexina, since the merge that created Nao. The naming issue did not need to be a problem to begin with but the way Nexon chose to design the database was sloppy and now we have the name issues today. As I said before, this is their fault not any player's.

    A solution to the naming issue has been put forth on these forums. Nexon has had two years now, since the Nao merge, to move towards it. The solution given would not only resolve the merge/naming issue but also provide an additional revenue steam for Nexon by giving players complete freedom to name their characters anything they want without using creative spelling or trailing numbers. If Nexon chooses to ignore the solution, again that's their fault and not that of any player.

  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,900
    Posts: 204
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    Helsa wrote: »
    this is because Nexon decided to label the Mabinogi database partitions as "servers". This was a misnomer and is their fault and not that of any player.

    Again, where is this info coming from? You can repeat that line about partitions as much as you want. Separating the playerbase was still a good idea.
    Helsa wrote: »
    That it went through shows that, in Nexon's view, the separate partitions constituting Nao were in danger of or were actually effecting the bottom line.

    Pretty sure it was just the 421 comment fear mongering thread by Darkpixie99 So many people were against this but trolls were making accounts to act like people in support of the merge which then tricks people into thinking there was an issue. There's just 20 pages of the same 5 or so people with SamuelAlex spamming on multiple pages + "new forum users" who type fake messages like:

    "i wiuld love a mega server pls talhach empty :)"

    Helsa wrote: »
    The solution given would not only resolve the merge/naming issue but also provide an additional revenue steam for Nexon

    In a game where you can look like anyone, names are the only thing that separate one player from another. Who's to stop someone from impersonating someone else to frame them or make them look bad?

    Someone takes a screenshot of "Helsa" throwing out random slurs at a random player in Dunbarton. Someone dresses up as your character and pretends to be an idiot to make fun of you. A bunch of copyright infringement characters running around Dunbarton to get Nexon in legal trouble. 20 Kiritos, 20 Narutos, etc.

    Also annoying when you, and others, act like "additional revenue" or "increase profit" are the magic words to get a company to act. As if they're just waiting for the layman forum user to give them that million dollar idea.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,745
    Posts: 4,976
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    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    this is because Nexon decided to label the Mabinogi database partitions as "servers". This was a misnomer and is their fault and not that of any player.

    Again, where is this info coming from? You can repeat that line about partitions as much as you want. Separating the playerbase was still a good idea.

    When Nao was first created it had 7 channels. Nexon underestimated the amount of interest this would cause and they had to add more channels. If Nao is a single computer what are the channels? Virtual machines? Adding more virtual machines would not relieve the load issues as it would still be the same single processor handling the load. Nao and Alexina are not "servers" they are partitions of a clustered database spread over at least 17 servers.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    That it went through shows that, in Nexon's view, the separate partitions constituting Nao were in danger of or were actually effecting the bottom line.

    Pretty sure it was just the 421 comment fear mongering thread by Darkpixie99 So many people were against this but trolls were making accounts to act like people in support of the merge which then tricks people into thinking there was an issue. There's just 20 pages of the same 5 or so people with SamuelAlex spamming on multiple pages + "new forum users" who type fake messages like:

    "i wiuld love a mega server pls talhach empty :)"

    You flatter us. Nexon merged for economic reasons. They took 10 years to do it and then only instituted a partial merge because corporations are cautious and conservative in their decision making.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    The solution given would not only resolve the merge/naming issue but also provide an additional revenue steam for Nexon

    In a game where you can look like anyone, names are the only thing that separate one player from another. Who's to stop someone from impersonating someone else to frame them or make them look bad?

    Someone takes a screenshot of "Helsa" throwing out random slurs at a random player in Dunbarton. Someone dresses up as your character and pretends to be an idiot to make fun of you. A bunch of copyright infringement characters running around Dunbarton to get Nexon in legal trouble. 20 Kiritos, 20 Narutos, etc.

    Also annoying when you, and others, act like "additional revenue" or "increase profit" are the magic words to get a company to act. As if they're just waiting for the layman forum user to give them that million dollar idea.

    At least twenty people would want to be called Kirito. Having the one person that happened to be first feel special versus twenty people getting what they want and be willing to pay for it, is a market.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,760
    Posts: 950
    Member
    edited December 13, 2021
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    The merge will not fix low population issue. This was just proven after last merge.

    We're still way better off than you, facts.

    Lord knows you guys earned it, after all those years in the woods. A merge may or may not be a miracle panacea but, overall, it will make things better.

    And now you get to traverse those same woods.

    Don't get lost.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    this is because Nexon decided to label the Mabinogi database partitions as "servers". This was a misnomer and is their fault and not that of any player.

    Again, where is this info coming from? You can repeat that line about partitions as much as you want. Separating the playerbase was still a good idea.

    When Nao was first created it had 7 channels. Nexon underestimated the amount of interest this would cause and they had to add more channels. If Nao is a single computer what are the channels? Virtual machines? Adding more virtual machines would not relieve the load issues as it would still be the same single processor handling the load. Nao and Alexina are not "servers" they are partitions of a clustered database spread over at least 17 servers.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    That it went through shows that, in Nexon's view, the separate partitions constituting Nao were in danger of or were actually effecting the bottom line.

    Pretty sure it was just the 421 comment fear mongering thread by Darkpixie99 So many people were against this but trolls were making accounts to act like people in support of the merge which then tricks people into thinking there was an issue. There's just 20 pages of the same 5 or so people with SamuelAlex spamming on multiple pages + "new forum users" who type fake messages like:

    "i wiuld love a mega server pls talhach empty :)"

    You flatter us. Nexon merged for economic reasons. They took 10 years to do it and then only instituted a partial merge because corporations are cautious and conservative in their decision making.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    The solution given would not only resolve the merge/naming issue but also provide an additional revenue steam for Nexon

    In a game where you can look like anyone, names are the only thing that separate one player from another. Who's to stop someone from impersonating someone else to frame them or make them look bad?

    Someone takes a screenshot of "Helsa" throwing out random slurs at a random player in Dunbarton. Someone dresses up as your character and pretends to be an idiot to make fun of you. A bunch of copyright infringement characters running around Dunbarton to get Nexon in legal trouble. 20 Kiritos, 20 Narutos, etc.

    Also annoying when you, and others, act like "additional revenue" or "increase profit" are the magic words to get a company to act. As if they're just waiting for the layman forum user to give them that million dollar idea.

    At least twenty people would want to be called Kirito. Having the one person that happened to be first feel special versus twenty people getting what they want and be willing to pay for it, is a market.

    I think you underestimate just how far some people in this game will go to ruin the lives of others.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,745
    Posts: 4,976
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    The merge will not fix low population issue. This was just proven after last merge.

    We're still way better off than you, facts.

    Lord knows you guys earned it, after all those years in the woods. A merge may or may not be a miracle panacea but, overall, it will make things better.

    And now you get to traverse those same woods.

    Don't get lost.

    I was trying to sound sympathetic there; if I failed then my apologies. Although lost in the woods, I've still got my s'mores, as in: I'd like s'more merging! ;)
    Helsa wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    this is because Nexon decided to label the Mabinogi database partitions as "servers". This was a misnomer and is their fault and not that of any player.

    Again, where is this info coming from? You can repeat that line about partitions as much as you want. Separating the playerbase was still a good idea.

    When Nao was first created it had 7 channels. Nexon underestimated the amount of interest this would cause and they had to add more channels. If Nao is a single computer what are the channels? Virtual machines? Adding more virtual machines would not relieve the load issues as it would still be the same single processor handling the load. Nao and Alexina are not "servers" they are partitions of a clustered database spread over at least 17 servers.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    That it went through shows that, in Nexon's view, the separate partitions constituting Nao were in danger of or were actually effecting the bottom line.

    Pretty sure it was just the 421 comment fear mongering thread by Darkpixie99 So many people were against this but trolls were making accounts to act like people in support of the merge which then tricks people into thinking there was an issue. There's just 20 pages of the same 5 or so people with SamuelAlex spamming on multiple pages + "new forum users" who type fake messages like:

    "i wiuld love a mega server pls talhach empty :)"

    You flatter us. Nexon merged for economic reasons. They took 10 years to do it and then only instituted a partial merge because corporations are cautious and conservative in their decision making.

    Cho wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    The solution given would not only resolve the merge/naming issue but also provide an additional revenue steam for Nexon

    In a game where you can look like anyone, names are the only thing that separate one player from another. Who's to stop someone from impersonating someone else to frame them or make them look bad?

    Someone takes a screenshot of "Helsa" throwing out random slurs at a random player in Dunbarton. Someone dresses up as your character and pretends to be an idiot to make fun of you. A bunch of copyright infringement characters running around Dunbarton to get Nexon in legal trouble. 20 Kiritos, 20 Narutos, etc.

    Also annoying when you, and others, act like "additional revenue" or "increase profit" are the magic words to get a company to act. As if they're just waiting for the layman forum user to give them that million dollar idea.

    At least twenty people would want to be called Kirito. Having the one person that happened to be first feel special versus twenty people getting what they want and be willing to pay for it, is a market.

    I think you underestimate just how far some people in this game will go to ruin the lives of others.


    Oh, you can't spend any time on internet and not learn that. Remember how there were folks that argued about not giving elves dark hair and skin options. After enough time in internet-land one comes to see these things as kind of like the weather.
  • TwelieTwelie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,615
    Posts: 257
    Member
    Cho wrote: »
    Twelie wrote: »
    they want to do late midgame/endgame content- and there just aren't enough strong/willing players for that.

    If there's a group of people who want to do mid/late/endgame content, they should get strong enough to do it. It should only take about 4 decently strong (r1 related skills, special upgraded) players who know what they're doing to clear most things. Endgame is a problem with balance not population. No matter how many players the server has, Illusion Zombies and all those gimmicky stat checks still exist. With raids, if it wasn't for that discord raid group that exists on Nao, a lot of them would time-out. Even then, 3 players with Techniques could trio Avalon Raids if they were prepped.

    We are strong enough, but people have lives. It's hard to align schedules and run content consistently. Yes, I can clear stuff with my guildmates, but some of them live in Australia and the UK. I don't want to solo things, If I wanted to solo I would go play a singleplayer game. MMOs are inherently made for social aspects. I don't understand why everyone touts the "go solo or trio". I WANT the social part of MMOs. I WANT to make new friends from doing content. I WANT to help people run things. I often DO help people train their skills and gear up- and those people end up quitting or taking a break because THEY DON'T HAVE OTHER PEOPLE TO RUN CONTENT WITH. This is a major issue.
  • LllaaazzzyLllaaazzzy
    Mabinogi Rep: 615
    Posts: 20
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    Well personally i stopped when i hit around level 800 after casually playing for a couple years... but every time I was playing they NEVER had a sale for partners so my gathering progress was literally cut in half compared to other players

    after I hit 800 i went to build full crit just to find out that crit got capped and people could actually just deal 10k with chainslash basic attack

    game is impossible but still kept it up to 1500 and bossed with everyone at least once

    cant do any new content without forcing myself to play


    any sort of new server would require an insane re balancing of the game and probably never gonna happen
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,900
    Posts: 204
    Member
    Twelie wrote: »
    I don't understand why everyone touts the "go solo or trio". I WANT the social part of MMOs. I WANT to make new friends from doing content. I WANT to help people run things. I often DO help people train their skills and gear up- and those people end up quitting or taking a break because THEY DON'T HAVE OTHER PEOPLE TO RUN CONTENT WITH. This is a major issue.

    Then make a new character on Nao. You have that option. If Alexina is emptier than before, where did they go? People must've already made the move to Nao. Maybe they're just returning to their old mains, who knows, but that would mean they migrated at least twice. Or you could invite your real life friends to play on the same server as you. Set up a group.

    People log-in and have their own goals. Some people don't want to run what you currently want at the same time. You have to set these things up and reach out to people. There is no major issue, you just want the game to be something that it isn't. This game barely works if there's too many people on a server. Lag, delayed spawning, rubberbanding, rollbacks. You shouldn't expect 500 v 500 guild battles or every town packed full of people. There are only so many gold mushrooms, so many hillwen mining spots, so many white spiders spewing cobwebs, etc. Plus, it's a 17 year old game. Expecting the same social aspect you would see from a new/top/popular MMO in the smaller server of a niche MMO is too much.
  • TwelieTwelie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,615
    Posts: 257
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    Cho wrote: »
    Then make a new character on Nao.
    People log-in and have their own goals. Some people don't want to run what you currently want at the same time. You have to set these things up and reach out to people. There is no major issue, you just want the game to be something that it isn't. You shouldn't expect 500 v 500 guild battles or every town packed full of people.
    I have invested thousands of dollars and hours into my character over the years. It's not as simple as "just make a new character". I would pay for a server transfer if it existed, but I don't want to level up another 40k times.

    I think it's very reductive of my argument to conflate it with wanting the server to be overloaded. I just want enough people to reasonably fill out a party. I'm aware people don't want to run what I want all the time. I'm aware I have to reach out to people. The problem is when nobody exists to do these things to. I'm not expecting a 100% rate, just a reasonable expectation of being able to fill a girg or hasi run at peak times.

    I don't understand being against a server merge when it would be better for the games longevity. Even as someone who has played as long as I have, it is very discouraging to have nobody online. I haven't been playing lately as a result, and I love this game- I really do. I don't want the game to be something that it isn't and I feel you are twisting my words to suit your argument.

    Do you play on Alexina and do endgame content? Most people end up soloing (and breaking ToS) because it's more efficient for them. There is a very wide gap between the players who solo and the players who can't find people to run endgame.

    Sebastian
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Hey @Twelie a final merge is inevitable. The only thing that can prevent it is the game dying quickly before it can happen. Although my main is on Alexina I have a character on Nao. It is vibrant and thriving so rumours of Mabinogi's impending death seem to be greatly exaggerated. As Alexina's population continues to decline, either by folks leaving or moving, maintaining a 7+ server partition becomes more and more expensive for Nexon. Nexon could stave this off by reducing the number of channels on Alexina, but the optics of that would just confirm what we have been saying in these forums. The Jousting Final is on channel 2, the Fashion Final is on channel 4, the Tara auction is on channel 5, and the Chef Exam is on Channel 3. There may be other such things on different channels but those are the ones I can think of at the moment. This puts a minimum number of channels at four, unless there is more need. Even then population will continue to bleed away until the Alexina partition costs more than it's worth, if it doesn't already. Nexon has had two and a half years since the Nao merge to discover the problems the merge created and work out a solution so that further merges need not be as troublesome. I hope they have used that time wisely and have decided to be opaque about it. I mean, the opaque part sux but I hope you know what I mean.
    NessuSebastian
  • PectylPectyl
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    What I find baffling is why Nexon NA isn't doing or at least trying to keep Mabinogi NA from dying? It's almost as if they are just waiting for the game to get just low enough in population numbers to have a good enough reason to shut it down, I am not going to pretend I know all the problems or have all the solutions but at least do the bare minimum of creating and releasing a game trailer once a year or so, let everyone download and play the game through Steam, make banners and promote the game around the internet in relevant placed like MMOBomb and MMOHuts, do out of game collaborations with Mabinogi YouTubers and the people at places like MMOBomb and MMOHuts.

    I also find it slightly annoying whenever this conversation happens around here it always derails into something else and then it's about monetization, playtime, in game activity or something else, this is a chat we really need more of as it's clear that Mabinogi NA is in a slow but visible decline, just think back to 2016 and how many more active players there where compared to today.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,745
    Posts: 4,976
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    Pectyl wrote: »
    What I find baffling is why Nexon NA isn't doing or at least trying to keep Mabinogi NA from dying? It's almost as if they are just waiting for the game to get just low enough in population numbers to have a good enough reason to shut it down, I am not going to pretend I know all the problems or have all the solutions but at least do the bare minimum of creating and releasing a game trailer once a year or so, let everyone download and play the game through Steam, make banners and promote the game around the internet in relevant placed like MMOBomb and MMOHuts, do out of game collaborations with Mabinogi YouTubers and the people at places like MMOBomb and MMOHuts.

    I also find it slightly annoying whenever this conversation happens around here it always derails into something else and then it's about monetization, playtime, in game activity or something else, this is a chat we really need more of as it's clear that Mabinogi NA is in a slow but visible decline, just think back to 2016 and how many more active players there where compared to today.

    My guess is that, in their heart of hearts, at some point up the Mabinogi food-chain there is a management layer of Nexon that doesn't believe in the game anymore and are out of ideas. Nexon needs to shuffle management around. I mean, armies do it with generals all the time; especially in war-time.