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Elf Seeks Dampen Shock. How to boost base defense?

Atheist42Atheist42
Mabinogi Rep: 1,315
Posts: 87
Member
in Help
One of the requirements for Dampen Shock is "Defense (Base) 150 or more". I got it on my human and giant. For my elf, my character info window is currently (age 15, level 132) showing defense as "157 (137)", which I'm guessing means the base defense is 137 and various other bonuses that don't qualify as "base" have raised that to 157. Is that right?

So it looks like my elf needs 13 more points of base defense.

I've got the defense skill at rank 1, so based on the data at https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Defense#Summary raising it to Dan 3 would give another 15 points defense. The bad news is that I'm well outside the North American continent, which makes the dan tests horribly laggy, so I'll probably never manage that. So I'm trying to figure out if there are any other ways to get the extra 13 points.

Pretty much all my other skills are at rank 1 already, or whatever the maximum is if it's lower than rank 1. I'm still working on Rest, Campfire, Fynn Bead Burnishing and Glyph Lore, but none of those are going to give any significant kick to base defense. (Glyph Lore is stuck at level 3, because the winemaking minigame is also sensitive to continental lag, so I'm slowly accumulating training seals to get that to rank 1.)

I've got lots of technique skills that aren't anywhere near maxed, but I figure those aren't going to affect base defense, because it would it create weird recursion issues if a technique skill could boost base defense when base defense is used to determine eligibility for a technique skill.

I haven't done any grandmaster talents yet. The best option there seems to be raising close combat from Master to Grandmaster, which gives an additional 30 strength, which adds only 3 to defense. Might be useful in conjunction with other things, but grandmaster tests by themselves won't get me to 150 base defense.

Can anyone suggest any other ways to boost base defense that I haven't mentioned above?

(Preferably not expensive solutions, like taking a holiday in USA in a city close to the server, to complete the dan tests. )

Comments

  • FluoretteFluorette
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,565
    Posts: 732
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    Hey, what equips do you use? Do you have titles or other equippables (like weapons) that could boost your def?

    I don't have any Grandmasters or Dan ranks (except Fireball) yet on my elf. That character is typically just points away from Dampen Shock activating after a fresh Rebirth to level 1 (with armor and other things on). The Technique kicks in at about level 60ish or so.

    I'd love have Dampen Shock natively kick in at level 1, but my elf would need more def just like yours. Trying to figure out and work through that part, perhaps without the Grandmasters/Dans for the time being; maybe in the future I'll have a better solution.
  • Atheist42Atheist42
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,315
    Posts: 87
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    Thanks Fluorette. That gave me some useful pointers.

    Current defense from equipment: Armor +8, Helm +1, Gloves +1, Boots +1. So that +11 is already included in my "157 (137)" defense. Didn't have any accessories equipped, so I've got an extra +7 from two +4 Droseras, apparently losing 1 in rounding. That takes Defense to "164 (144)".

    I guess I should be looking at something like an Improved Avelin Armor or a Pinhe Armor, that starts at +5 Def, with possibly more as bonus, and can get +15 from upgrades. That'll be an expensive longer term project.

    Titles don't seem to effect base defense. Just switched my titles to "the Storm Strider" and "Baltane Special Unit" both of which claim +10 Defense. Now it shows "184 (144)". So total defense increased but base defense didn't change.

    I guess the next question is: Do enchants on equipment effect base defense or just the total defense? I don't currently have any enchants that I can use to test that.
  • FluoretteFluorette
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,565
    Posts: 732
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    You're right: titles don't count. I don't have anything with an enchant that grants defense, but I doubt it counts as base.

    I don't know what your budget is, but there's other light armors that could suffice instead of the ones you mentioned. I see basic Languhiris Chaser armors going for around 5,000,000 gold these days. The ones currently listed for that price offer +7 base defense in basic form, then you can upgrade them to add more, including artisan's upgrade.
    The basic Troubadour outfit's price drops as low as 5,000,000 or so as well. It offers 27 base defense right off the bat, but I recall it can't be upgraded.

    There's heavy armors that elves can wear in that price range (and cheaper) as well if you don't mind sacrificing your dex.

    On the other hand, heavy gauntlets and boots won't cut dex and typically provide more defense, so that could be an option as well. I currently see Languhiris Chaser boots (F), cheap as 250,000 right now and they offer +3 base defense.

    Up to you, though. I see the prices for Pihne and Improved Avelin armors are more than twice the prices of the other things I've listed right now.
  • Atheist42Atheist42
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,315
    Posts: 87
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    Thanks Fluorette. All good ideas.
  • Atheist42Atheist42
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,315
    Posts: 87
    Member
    A few corrections and updates.

    1. In first first post I said that raising the Defense from Rank 1 to Dan 3 would add 15 points to the base defense for an elf. I read the wrong line of the table. It would only add three points. I should have been reading the line labelled "Additional Base Defense (Elf Total)", not the line labelled "Defense Bonus (Human/Elf) "

    2. The transformation diary shows a stat bonus for each monster that can be collected. Most monsters give HP +1, but some boost STRength, some boost defense and some boost magic defense. Obvious question: Does the defense boost effect base defense or just total defense? I went and collected the Amethyst Golem which promises a 1 point boost to defense. And neither my base defense nor my total defense changed. So it seems I'm misunderstanding what these stat bonuses in the transformation diary mean. I still haven't figured out how they are supposed to work, but at first glance it looks like they aren't useful in getting my elf access to Dampen Shock.

    3. As mentioned before, where the character dialog shows the defence statistic as say 179 (139), it means base defense is 139 and total defense is 179. Similar things happen for other stats. For example, if STRength shows as 881 (705), then base STRength is 705 and total STRength is 881. I'd been assuming the distinction between what effects base and what effects total would be consistent across all stats. I was wrong.

    I've got a fire wand with an enchant which includes Strength decrease 20. That's good for testing, because the 20 STR will convert to exactly 2 points of defense, so I don't have to make guesses as to what happens with rounding errors. Now everything I've read on the wiki says that enchants don't effect base stats. For STRength, that's true. Equipping the wand doesn't change base STRength, but totall STRength drops by 20. For defense it's false. Equipping the wand causes both base defense and total defense to drop by 2 points. Who would have guess that would happen?

    I have also verified this with enchants that increase strength rather than reducing it and they work the same. I'm just not giving the numbers for that since I didn't have any enchants where the strength boost was an exact multiple of 10, so it gets messy explaining the analysis of rounding errors.

    So it seems you can boost your base defence using equipment with enchants that boost strength. What I haven't yet tested is enchants that directly boost defense, rather than boosting it indirectly via strength. Such enchants are rarer and I haven't got any to test.

    The first 2 sections of the page https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats#Status_Effects are "base stats" and "stat modifiers". They explain what factors affect base statistics and what factors adjust those base statistics to produce the total. For example, it says enchants are modifiers and don't effect the base stat. I'm now thinking we should only take those 2 sections as true for the "primary" statistics STRength, INTelligence, DEXterity, Will and Luck. We shouldn't assume the same is true for "secondary" statistics like defense, protection, magic defense, magic protection and magic attack.

    This issue is turning out way more complex that I thought it would be.
  • Atheist42Atheist42
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,315
    Posts: 87
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    In my previous post I described that the distinction between base defence and total defense wasn't conistent with the difference between base strength and total strength. Enchants that boost strength only boost total strength, not base strength, but boost base defence. (At the conversion rate of 10 points of strength giving 1 point of defense.)

    I've been experimenting further and have found the discrepancy isn't just for enchants. It also happens for totems and homestead figures. That is, if you've got totems and/or homestead figures that give you 10 points of strength, that increase effects total strength but not base strength, but it also generates 1 point of defense which goes into base defense.

    So I rebirthed my elf and unequipped all gear. The difference between base defense and total defense was 20 points, which curiously matched the effect of the equipped titles. Interesting. I changed to titles that don't effect Strength or Defense. The separate number showing for base defense disappears, indicating that my base defense now equals my total defense. So far, it looks like the only factor that effects total defense without affecting base defense is titles.

    OK. Making some progress here. So I got adventurous and decided to verify my defense state using data from the wiki. And I couldn't quite get there. It looks like my defense (both total and base at the moment since they are equal) is the sum of:

    Direct effects: Points from defense skill, Totems granting Def,
    Indirect effects: 10% of the Strength points arising from: Skills, Quests (Journal entries for completing some mainstream quests and transformation milestones), Talent bonuses, 10 points for an elf rebirthed to age 10, Totems granting strength and homestead figures.

    The bit I'm still not understanding is the bonuses for collecting particular monsters. From those I thought I should have an extra 6 points of defense directly, and 34 more points of strength which gives another 3.4 points of defense indirectly. Based on the figures showing in the character dialog, that isn't happening.

    At this point I still don't have any gear equipped, so let's just put some gear on to check the effect. In almost all cases, adding gear boost base defense, so the character dialog still only shows a single figure for defense, because base and total are equal. This also works for gear with enchants that boost strength, giving a flow through effect. The enchant doesn't feed into base strength, but the 10% flow through to defense does go into base defense. The only situation where putting gear on causes base and total defense to differ is when I put on armor, since that generates a defense boost via the light/heavy armor mastery skills, and that bonus part does not effect base defense.
  • NossNoss
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    Posts: 17
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    I think the total bonuses in the transformation diary only apply when you are transformed with a dreamcatcher.