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Mathematically impossible to beat Red Dragon on AS

CocoshiCocoshi
Mabinogi Rep: 1,450
Posts: 43
Member
in General Chat
The average player with a decent team SHOULD be able to take care of the red dragon, but as it stands, we can't. The battle is unfair on a technical level.

On average, each player needs to hit the red dragon 150 times within 40 seconds, but it is not possible to reach this even with speed gear, vivace, relentless assault, and way of the gun all stacking perfectly. you're looking at close to 4 hits per second per person for the entire 40 seconds. Don't forget, the driver needs to cancel driving first, AND move into position, then cast skills. That 3 second loss accounts for 12 hits.

I've so far done 30+ trips, and not once in the literal 100+ dragons have we even came close. On average we see 2 red dragon spawns, sometimes as many as three in a row. On rare occasions we only managed to survive 4 red dragons if and only if a repair bonus happened twice. We've had 4-5 people who are over lv 30k with absolutely stacked weapons and maxed skills and techniques going ham on the dragon, and we're always at least 5-6 seconds short. And that's also assuming that your whole team have zero latency lag.

The ballista gimmick seems to be a joke gimmick. The red dragon spawns so close to the ship that it's not possible to aim with ballistae, and if you could aim at it with the ballistae, then your normal attacks wont reach. I don't know if using the ballistae is the secret to beating the red dragon, but it's not possible to aim at it regardless.

We also tried other things like Bullet Storm/Shooting rush, but these skills won't acknowledge the existence of the dragon even if they're right in your face. skills that usually bypass hit-vulnerability like celestial spike/hydra does absolutely nothing.

The solution to a puzzle shouldn't be you need to have a full team of absolute units with decked out speed gear. If anyone else has a consistent way of beating the dragon, I'd love to hear it, but of the 30+ trips I've had nothing we tried even came close.

This could be an easy QoL fix, if you either:

- changed from a hit counter to a DPS counter
- increase frequency of repair bonuses
- decrease damage done by red dragons or decrease red dragon frequency.
- lower the required hits by 20-25%

It's only a challenge if it is possible to overcome the attack. Otherwise, you might as well make it into a random event where you loose 900 durability on the ship and cut out the battle entirely.

Again, I dont know about the rest of you, but I havent heard of a single successful group fending off a red dragon attack since the update.
Goldtiger01HeavenlyLife

Comments

  • An0nym0usAn0nym0us
    Mabinogi Rep: 830
    Posts: 11
    Member
    edited July 30, 2022
    I agree with what you say. I'd also like to mention that a hit based system doesn't allow for the use of a variety of strategies and play styles that could be more viable if it were dps based.
    CocoshiBlissfulkill
  • Goldtiger01Goldtiger01
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,515
    Posts: 46
    Member
    I second this. Of course, I did tag along with you in some of your airship commerce runs. But even then, we literally tried everything we could think of - as endgame players - and none of it really worked. We never even got close. Something needs to change cause it's honestly ridiculous that very strong players can't beat the dragon, especially with how frequently it spawns.

    I hope Nexon can consider releasing a balancing patch to make it realistic not only for the endgame players, but your average player as well. I think that was the point of the hit counter, but even then, the values are too high. Makes it pretty clear the developers don't even play their own game...
    Cocoshi
  • CocoshiCocoshi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,450
    Posts: 43
    Member
    I hope Nexon can consider releasing a balancing patch to make it realistic not only for the endgame players, but your average player as well. I think that was the point of the hit counter, but even then, the values are too high. Makes it pretty clear the developers don't even play their own game...

    Yeah! If you want to have end game content, fine, but that's what tech duinn and crom bas and that new ruin dungeon is for.

    Remember how when we started on Thursday, all of us just wanted to vibe on a big pretty floating ship.

    I don't believe that commerce should be softlocked behind some endgame tier monster that guarantees you a loss just because of bad RNG. A group of 5-6k players should still be able to beat a dragon if they did their best... but as of right now we groups with combined total level of 100k+ and we're struggling and that's really not fair OR balanced to everyone who just wants to chill... Especially so when you can't even avoid encounters like you could bandits.
    Blissfulkill
  • LoomyOfPiLoomyOfPi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 157
    Member
    My original plan was to try this new feature of commerce this weekend, when there are more players out and I can snag an open spot on a team. After reading the complaints about the dragons, I'm just gonna sit this one out.
  • CocoshiCocoshi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,450
    Posts: 43
    Member
    LoomyOfPi wrote: »
    My original plan was to try this new feature of commerce this weekend, when there are more players out and I can snag an open spot on a team. After reading the complaints about the dragons, I'm just gonna sit this one out.

    It's very fun if you exploit routes that have no chance of 4 dragons.

    Vales - Cor - Filia is free real estate. Maximum 3 spawns between Vales and Cor, and maximum 3 between Filia and Cor. Even if you get all 3 dragons you're fine.

    The tricky part is Qilla. Qilla to either edge of map will be 3, possible 4 spawns. Filia to Rano edge will be 2-3 spawns. Cor to Rano edge is 1 - 2 spawns. The safest bet is Qilla - Cor for their goods.

  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    Pretty bizarre to introduce a hit-based counter system that even high level players cannot reliably do. It seems like it would be a system that would allows players regardless of their stats to fight the dragon on even ground, but all it seems to do here is prevent anyone from actually fending it off.

    Having a mixed system and an overall nerf would be lovely though.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,764
    Member
    A few people have said that either they have or they've seen others handle the dragons, apparently, without as much trouble. Is this just empty post-and-boast t!ysllnq? Or is it a case of people having powered their way to engame status by using ultra high-end equipment, help from friends, potions, and boosted stats, and just powering through things, when they are able to, without actually learning how to fight?
  • UnpayedUnpayed
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,485
    Posts: 97
    Member
    edited August 9, 2022
    Helsa wrote: »
    A few people have said that either they have or they've seen others handle the dragons, apparently, without as much trouble. Is this just empty post-and-boast t!ysllnq? Or is it a case of people having powered their way to engame status by using ultra high-end equipment, help from friends, potions, and boosted stats, and just powering through things, when they are able to, without actually learning how to fight?

    Likely empty. It's a "Pics or didn't happen" scenario until someone can back that up with proof.
  • HeavenlyLifeHeavenlyLife
    Mabinogi Rep: 705
    Posts: 3
    Member
    edited August 10, 2022
    My guild has been able to do group com pretty easily but we still will suffer at the hands of dragons occasionally.
    Our best technique is have EVERYONE with dual guns and WOTG in the party. (4 seems the best currently).
    When WOTG goes down TS it back up.
    If another dragon spawns later in the run use RA as well.
    It's still however a coinflip and entirely way too difficult for non-stacked players.
    Also Hailstorm range 20 op on Wyverns
    Max we survived is a run from Vales to Filia at 6 Dragons (And an INSANE amount of luck)

    Also Vivace is your friend ^^
  • WinglyMeruWinglyMeru
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,205
    Posts: 24
    Member
    Use the ballistas. They do like 10 hits a shot. It makes the dragon no problem. We beat it with lots of time to spare. You can use the ballista speed stones to make it easier, too.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,764
    Member
    WinglyMeru wrote: »
    Use the ballistas. They do like 10 hits a shot. It makes the dragon no problem. We beat it with lots of time to spare. You can use the ballista speed stones to make it easier, too.

    I have not tried the new commerce yet so I can't comment on what might be happening in a video but someone posted this.