Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the 16th Anniversary and VIP Renewal Update! https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/90098/16th-anniversary-and-vip-renewal-patch-notes-march-14th
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

Divine Knights Overhaul

DraechDraech
Mabinogi Rep: 4,390
Posts: 355
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
With today's Alban Knights Inception event, I got an urge for more Divine Knights-related content. Here's what I would like to see added with G21 in terms of gameplay (hopefully, very soon): an updated Avalon Gate, more squires and more Girgashiy Raid options.

First, Avalon Gate should be updated to reflect the size, importance and wealth of the Alban Knights. I understand it's been abandoned for a long time after the Elder's passing; however, the Baltane unit is now stationed there. I would love for us to be able to invest funds and materials towards making Avalon Gate a mini-city, so that all this space is used effectively. You'd go speak with Shuan and use a system similar to building Guild Castles in order to add elements to Avalon Gate, such as merchants for various item categories and quarters for the Alban Knights units (Arthuan, Eiler, Elved and Heruin) so that Talvish, Caswyn and Pihne stay with you after G20. Because, let's be honest, Avalon Gate is currently just a ruin with seven teenage misfits camping out for eternity.

Second, I'd like to see more squires and unique NPCs in Avalon Gate. I'm not necessarily talking about more recruitable squires (I think the ones we have now are enough), but rather the trainee knights that didn't actually make it, as well as the instructors and personnel of the Alban Knights. (From a lore standpoint, I understand why they would not all gather in one location, however I still think some of them could be added to the Avalon Gate as dispatched support due to the presence of Prophets inside Avalon Gate).

Third, I believe more Apostle Raids/Missions should be available. After the release of G20, no Zebachs were added to the Raid list (I admit they are very easy to beat, however they could be combined with, say, a Girgashiy to increase difficulty). Also, it would be nice to have a series of shadow missions where we try to hinder the Prophets, with an option to be accompanied by one of our squires.

What are your thoughts on this? Any other gameplay elements you wish to see in G21? Or am I just too hyped for no reason?

Comments

  • RondoRondo
    Mabinogi Rep: 255
    Posts: 10
    Member
    Just going to preface this by saying I don't really follow the story of mabi, so some of what I'm saying might be off. It's that true, feel free to correct me.

    Firstly, I'd like to address the "build your own city". I like this idea. I envision you buying a basic tailor/blacksmith/general store/bank. They would allow you to actually repair equipment for the respective store and sell basic goods (and maybe provide a discount). This would allow players to repair their stuff from anywhere by simply warping to camp. To upgrade each shop you would investing gold/training points or a new system could be put in place. As you upgrading each shop, the goods they sell/discount and repair rate for each shop would increase (and perhaps we could introduce 100% repair after investing an absurd amount of resources. Yet, I don't see this idea coming to fruition.
    From what I remember Avalon Gate is not open to the public, you essential earn your right to access it by proving yourself (which we prove through the g1-20 quests). Opening it up to have blacksmiths/merchants and other NPC to move in would really go against the sacred nature of Avalon Gate. Along with that my idea really doesn't provide any positives. Repair shops and stores are by no means scarce and adding this feature may take away player from visiting cities all together. Sure you'll still have Dun and Belvy, we really don't need another reason for player to not interact with one another.

    As for having your squires coming along on sm's, I think that is a bad idea. My opinion is that NPC characters are SUPER ANNOYING to play with. Conflict!, Tail Def Battle battle and Saga missions all have NPC and they really just make things more annoying than providing actual help. Now an alternative idea would be actually doing raids with your squires. Why not allow them to come into a super easy mode or even the solo mission and provide support? You'd how many squires you'd like to bring with (0-3) and assign roles. This would give players another way to train the crusader skills without having to pester other players to help them train. Now things don't have to go perfect, the squires could have health bars and get injured. There would need to be a punishment system put in place and I'm not sure what it would be. HOWEVER, again, this leads to less player interaction. Not sure that is what Mabi is striving for. (It is super annoying to train crusader skills though when no one wants to help out).

    Lastly, the big issue, the raids (or therefore, lack of?). The problem with raids is the way Mabi has chosen to implement them. For other games you have serveral different ways to do DPS, provide support, tank dmg, apply buffs, etc etc. Mabi has chosen to do all that with 3 skills. So from now on anything is going to be just a pattern (baring no new skills). Really the only way they can implement new raids is to mix up the pattern in which we do things. So, I'd like to suggest two different raid opinions:

    Giant Lion Crusader Raid
    You have a Giant Lion (re-skinned to look like a Girgashiy) spawn and start attck. Instead of having a Staff Attack, it has a Paw Swipe. Instead of Contagion, it would have a Roar Attack that would debuff attack or de-summon pets? (similar to phantasm). Instead of having a jump attack, the lion would have an animation showing that it is going to Charge forward (like a real Giant Lion or Giant Alligator). At this point the players would spike to pin the Lion down. Then while the Lion is pinned down, you would drop blades. After blades drop, you would shield and the lion would still charge forward. This adds a certain level of difficulty when it comes to timing. For girshy raids sometimes the smiting timer runs out before all blades are drop, but there is no punishment. With this method, the players would take massive dmg for incorrectly timing things. (This is all the thought I've put into this).

    Dragon Crusader Raid
    You have a Dragon re-skinned to look like a Girgashiy (probably Desert Dragon or Red Red Dragon because Prairie is kinda small and White/Black Dragon is too iconic). The dragon would have a breath attack that would be like contagion or putrid breath (petrify players). Dragon could also still have a tail attack. I"m not sure how I would do the order for crusader skills, but this is what I'm thinking. The dragon would flap its wings showing it wants to take to the sky. I guess you would spike to try and pin it down. If you succeed, the dragon is pinned and you blade. If you don't succeed the dragon flies into the air and uses a fireball (similar to Desert Dragon) or thunder attack (similar to Red Dragon) which the players have to shield. The problem with this is if the players are perfect, they could never have to use shield. It would be easy to do, just put 1/4 the squad on spike and 3/4 the squad on blade. And thus, a way to farm rewards. So, for this order, something has to be fixed. I'm not sure how though.


    I just have a couple last things to say before heading off. As for Avalon Gate, yes it does feel empty, and I would like more options for the squires, but Mabi already has us investing of TON of time there to try and get divine weapons. In their mind (I'm assuming) that should last us a good while. The only problem is it gets repetitive and boring, but hey, that's Grind-inogi for you. As for my raid ideas, yes there is a reason they are so similar to Iria Raids. The first reason is that PERSONALLY, I have been doing the Iria Raids a lot more recently so they have just been on my mind. The other reason they are so similar is because of the resources that would go into implementing these ideas. For a second let us think that Nexon see's this and decides they want to add new raids for the players. They would have two options, either they would have to invest a ton of time and money into R&D to develop these brand new raids ground up. OOOOOOOOR, they could re-skin models they already have, re-purpose attack animations they already have realease some new raids (maybe in time for summer?). A lot of this was just verbal throw-up of stuff that I had on my mind after reading this forum post a week ago. If anything didn't make sense or you would like more clarification on something feel free to leave a post or shoot me a note (remember you can note ppl on other servers).

    Thanks for reading
    Rondo209
    Tarlach Server
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    Rondo wrote: »
    Firstly, I'd like to address the "build your own city". I like this idea. I envision you buying a basic tailor/blacksmith/general store/bank. They would allow you to actually repair equipment for the respective store and sell basic goods (and maybe provide a discount). This would allow players to repair their stuff from anywhere by simply warping to camp. To upgrade each shop you would investing gold/training points or a new system could be put in place. As you upgrading each shop, the goods they sell/discount and repair rate for each shop would increase (and perhaps we could introduce 100% repair after investing an absurd amount of resources. Yet, I don't see this idea coming to fruition.
    From what I remember Avalon Gate is not open to the public, you essential earn your right to access it by proving yourself (which we prove through the g1-20 quests). Opening it up to have blacksmiths/merchants and other NPC to move in would really go against the sacred nature of Avalon Gate. Along with that my idea really doesn't provide any positives. Repair shops and stores are by no means scarce and adding this feature may take away player from visiting cities all together. Sure you'll still have Dun and Belvy, we really don't need another reason for player to not interact with one another.

    Hnnng. I agree with you both that this would be a neat thing, but I also agree that trying to integrate this into Avalon gate is a bad idea.

    However, it reminds me of something someone else said in another thread (or maybe just what I thought of when I read their comment). Here it is:http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/3261/housing-needs-a-good-revamp/p2


    Pretty much the idea of turning the housing areas into a hub for Milletians. It'd be a great gold sink market area. I think it'd be cool if part of this could even be NPCs who can repair equipment at 100% (at astronomical prices), as long as the server (or at least the guild in the castle) fulfills certain conditions to keep it going. With 100% repair NPCs, it would definitely be worth maintaining.
    As for having your squires coming along on sm's, I think that is a bad idea. My opinion is that NPC characters are SUPER ANNOYING to play with. Conflict!, Tail Def Battle battle and Saga missions all have NPC and they really just make things more annoying than providing actual help. Now an alternative idea would be actually doing raids with your squires. Why not allow them to come into a super easy mode or even the solo mission and provide support? You'd how many squires you'd like to bring with (0-3) and assign roles. This would give players another way to train the crusader skills without having to pester other players to help them train. Now things don't have to go perfect, the squires could have health bars and get injured. There would need to be a punishment system put in place and I'm not sure what it would be. HOWEVER, again, this leads to less player interaction. Not sure that is what Mabi is striving for. (It is super annoying to train crusader skills though when no one wants to help out).

    You have a point with the annoying NPC thing. It's a good idea to have them come along on raids though. I agree that it's a real pain to have to get other players to help you train Crusader skills, especially since it HAS to be done in a raid, it can't just be done in general party play.
  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,390
    Posts: 355
    Member
    Guess I didn't write my Shadow Mission idea clearly. I understand how annoying NPCs in Shadow Missions actually are, and what I had in mind was more along the lines of unique Divine Knights-related Shadow Missions which would have the exclusive option of having your squires with you. (Especially considering that, lore-wise, the squires would probably not be allowed to help some random Milletian in defending Tailltean against the Fomors or investigating weird apparitions of the long-dead Partholons)

    I do understand, however, that such missions would still be a chore with the current AI for NPCs. As such, we could either have access to a Guidelines system similar to pets', or an entirely new system in which you issue orders through hotkeys or a tiny interface (which would, I admit, clutter our already full screens). For those of you who have played Lord of the Rings Online, the Loremaster's Pet Commands interface is what I have in mind; a tiny bar with two or three unique skills which you can prompt, and a couple of behaviours for your pet.

    It is also worth noting that, to the contrary of the generic NPCs in shadow missions, your squires have actual stats that could prove meaningful.

    Also, the idea to have squires with you on raids could prove really useful, however I believe it might cause issues in 16-person raids. Nonetheless, they would be a welcome addition to solo raids, that's for sure.

    As for Avalon Gate not being community-friendly, you have a point. I didn't really notice it much since I am always solo, however I notice now that we have a lot of content that presents no multiplayer interaction. We even get to name our unit without any actual purpose, which I believe hints at a more community-oriented content update. Now, this idea might sound extremely stupid and not thought-out (for it isn't; I actually got it five minutes ago), but I would like to see an Avalon Gate that is not actually competitive the way everything in Mabinogi seems to be. Guild Castles are all about a select group of people investing as much time and effort as possible to make a castle, then fighting to keep it when the next month arrives. However, I think we could benefit from an Avalon Gate that is a community-driven city, where everyone contributes to building it, maintaining it and profiting from it. It would be a place where people gather to sell stuff in a huge plaza (much like the Housing Revamp link AlmostNotsuper commented), or register for the training grounds or instanced raids (Rondo's Lion and Dragon raid conversions, as well as the traditional Girgashiy) instead of going to Dunbarton and Emain Macha, respectively.
  • RondoRondo
    Mabinogi Rep: 255
    Posts: 10
    Member
    Draech wrote: »
    I actually got it five minutes ago), but I would like to see an Avalon Gate that is not actually competitive the way everything in Mabinogi seems to be. Guild Castles are all about a select group of people investing as much time and effort as possible to make a castle, then fighting to keep it when the next month arrives. However, I think we could benefit from an Avalon Gate that is a community-driven city, where everyone contributes to building it, maintaining it and profiting from it. It would be a place where people gather to sell stuff in a huge plaza (much like the Housing Revamp link AlmostNotsuper commented), or register for the training grounds or instanced raids (Rondo's Lion and Dragon raid conversions, as well as the traditional Girgashiy) instead of going to Dunbarton and Emain Macha, respectively.

    The only problem with this is that each player has there own Avalon. It's impossible to bring someone else into your Avalon, so making it community is impossible. That being said Avon could be a place where you could do that since the entire server shares it. BUT the problem with that is new players won't be able to access it until completing the coresponding G-questline.
  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,390
    Posts: 355
    Member
    Actually, the current courtyard of Avalon Gate is instanced, however they could change the entire layout to transform it into a festia-like area, with maybe an instanced headquarters where all your squires are waiting.
  • AmelinaAmelina
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,400
    Posts: 112
    Member
    Why not make a whole new area overall that you have to work to build up? Kind of like a homestead but with more possibilities. That way nothing would have to be changed and would still fit according to lore. I'm sure they can find a way to give the Milletian a plot of land somewhere after saving Erinn countless amounts of times.