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Do Mods/GM's care about the situation of bots?

Comments

  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,730
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    No.

    P.S. They'll sugarcoat it when bothered. Uncompromisingly, the answer is no.
    [Deleted User]
  • EraleaEralea
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    As much as I love Conflict spam myself, I will LOL if they nerf the gold reward.

    But it's not necessary to nerf it if they just ban the cheaters. People know who the botters are. People know which player is publicly bragging about earning 30mil per day multiclienting Conflict bots. If you hang around long enough at Taill altar on a less-crowded channel, you might catch a glimpse of a pro followed by three noob alts in NPC-shop clothing, popping in and out of the mission like clockwork. We're just dancing around saying their names because it's harassment according to forum rules.

    If Nexon cared enough to moderate their game as much as they moderate their forums, they'd have been banned a long time ago.
    RetryPolicromaSirRyu[Deleted User]ZeoBlissfulkillNilrem
  • AceDotAceDot
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    AceDot wrote: »
    I understand that nerfing of mission gold rewards is something thats already been implemented, but what I don't understand is why people won't every mention banning these players. And yeah, something more complex as dungeons probably can't be done since it's randomly generated, whereas, as you mentioned, conflict is straight forward.
    I say this again, Ban the alts/main who is final hitting and then that solves a majority of our problems.
    Getting an account to have fh cd 20 Reforge as well as having enough damage to finish the mission is not something that comes cheap, therefore, if the main account which does most of the work gets banned problems are solved.
    Unless I missed a comment you and several others have made before, I don't see why banning players will be the "Go to" option.
    It doesn't hurt legit players, and it hurts bots.

    I think most people find it distasteful. One reason I've been avoiding mentioning it, is that talk of banning players who appear to be dragging alts tends to devolve into warnings of a witch hunt, since people don't think Nexon has the ability to tell for certain whether these groups of spammers are all the same person or not. Another reason is that I'd just like to see the game improved so this isn't a problem anymore. It's a much more effective, lasting solution.

    Personally, I think it'd be too much to perma-ban these guys. While I'm sure Nexon could monitor the accounts to confirm that they're transferring gold or items to each other regularly, there's really no way to be 100% certain that it's a single person abusing multiple accounts (though it is apparent beyond a reasonable doubt). And even if they are doing this (and they probably are), as you mentioned, FH sets like theirs are not easily obtained. These are actual players, even if they are trying to cheese the game in the sleaziest way possible. I think a temporary ban for 2-5 weeks would be appropriate. Preferably right when a new update is released, for maximum regret. This seems perfectly reasonable, given that people were temp banned for abusing some crappy event for gems a couple years back.

    And of course, I'd still want FH nerfed. Better to fix the exploit than to leave it and keep having to punish people for abusing it.

    You know, yeah I really agree with you when you say that people find it idea of bans distasteful and yeah it can very well come down to a witch hunt. But I've seen people brag about how rich they became from botting conflict, like obviously there's solid evidence there, but in other cases there may not be. But considering that people might be clicking in the same area and moving in the same spots over and over again, run after run, you may think that perhaps there's something going on here, the timing at which they do things are completely perfect.

    Buffalos wrote: »
    Personally, I think it'd be too much to perma-ban these guys. While I'm sure Nexon could monitor the accounts to confirm that they're transferring gold or items to each other regularly, there's really no way to be 100% certain that it's a single person abusing multiple accounts (though it is apparent beyond a reasonable doubt).

    It should be painfully obvious to everyone involved if a group is botting and exactly who is getting the gold generated. The gold is ultimately going to be steamlined to one player's bank account, where it will sit and wait to be spent in the market normally. Those are the accounts that need to be banned in the long run.
    If they find a player named "asiugakjb" has sent "legitnamehere" 100m over the course of a few trade chains of similar alt names within the time span of a week, that is fairly clear evidence of something shady happening with asiugakjb and legitnamehere.

    Also, another problem we might run into here is that, yeah it looks seriously shady but sometimes, legit players who might be needing some space or for whatever reasons could be doing this.
    As some people have stated above, the wrong people could be banned for just transferring money to a different account, even if it looks suspicious, there is no greater evidence than when the actual person claims that they bot conflict and the flawless actions and movements characters do.

    But really in regarding this idea of "doing something about the botters", I have sent in a ticket regarding this and I know several others have done so too, but why is it that this is so hard to take down? I really wish a GM would be able to answer such a question, like really, all they need to do it sit around at tail altar (as I've said over and over again) and if they see someone repeating their movements with what seems like 3 other alts, then what stops them from banning them?
    It makes me feel like perhaps Nexon America might somehow be involved with all the gold sales, there was once a scandal on Runescape about something like this. Mods got involved with selling and generating of gold from what I remember, and obviously that was a completely crap thing to do. But seriously, go to tail altar in Alexina, any channels, look. It's not such a difficult task, or perhaps it is, which is why I want some sort of response to this topic.
    Even some sort of justification on their half, I would be happy enough to take that as a result and hopefully get them moving to respond.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    AceDot wrote: »
    Also, another problem we might run into here is that, yeah it looks seriously shady but sometimes, legit players who might be needing some space or for whatever reasons could be doing this.
    As some people have stated above, the wrong people could be banned for just transferring money to a different account, even if it looks suspicious, there is no greater evidence than when the actual person claims that they bot conflict and the flawless actions and movements characters do.

    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.

    Well, I don't think it helps that there's a guild stone called "personal bank" right at the Stonehenge.
    BuffalosTheNyanCat
  • AceDotAceDot
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    Buffalos wrote: »
    AceDot wrote: »
    Also, another problem we might run into here is that, yeah it looks seriously shady but sometimes, legit players who might be needing some space or for whatever reasons could be doing this.
    As some people have stated above, the wrong people could be banned for just transferring money to a different account, even if it looks suspicious, there is no greater evidence than when the actual person claims that they bot conflict and the flawless actions and movements characters do.

    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.

    Completely understand where you're coming from, but as I said before, it could be just one of those really rare cases where something like that might actually happen, odds of something shady like that happening is rare but for the sake of the few innocent who might do this, we need to be careful.

    Policroma wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.

    Well, I don't think it helps that there's a guild stone called "personal bank" right at the Stonehenge.

    Well, apparently with the ticket I've sent into Nexon, they've told me that there ARE GMs who patrol mabi in game. But for some reason they don't see the one pro and three noobs entering with very consistent timing. And I think it's more come to the point where people aren't afraid to admit that they are using mods/botting in public in more cases now because there is no GM presence in the game.
    Greta
  • PanPan
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    Agreed. Botting, modding, hacking is pretty much acceptable in Mabi now. May as well go forth and say I've done all three.
  • SeishunSeishun
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    Pan wrote: »
    Agreed. Botting, modding, hacking is pretty much acceptable in Mabi now. May as well go forth and say I've done all three.
    Please, go do that. Tell me how it works out for you.
  • SeishunSeishun
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    AceDot wrote: »
    Well, apparently with the ticket I've sent into Nexon, they've told me that there ARE GMs who patrol mabi in game. But for some reason they don't see the one pro and three noobs entering with very consistent timing. And I think it's more come to the point where people aren't afraid to admit that they are using mods/botting in public in more cases now because there is no GM presence in the game.

    They have never been scared of admitting it. What are you talking about? Everyone has been open about modding since g2 when lemu faucet was around. Hell, it was a thing before even that. You new kids are so funny.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Seishun wrote: »
    They have never been scared of admitting it. What are you talking about? Everyone has been open about modding since g2 when lemu faucet was around. Hell, it was a thing before even that. You new kids are so funny.

    I never saw people say they use mods while standing about in Dunby on the market channel until a year or two ago. There was a time when they were afraid, albeit that time was quite a few years ago.
  • FaybalFaybal
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    edited May 14, 2017
    Basically lured bears into dunby and slaughtered 2 bots so far, they keep coming back ;-;


    30ll5zp.jpg
  • PanPan
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    BOTS. xd.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited May 14, 2017
    AceDot wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    AceDot wrote: »
    Also, another problem we might run into here is that, yeah it looks seriously shady but sometimes, legit players who might be needing some space or for whatever reasons could be doing this.
    As some people have stated above, the wrong people could be banned for just transferring money to a different account, even if it looks suspicious, there is no greater evidence than when the actual person claims that they bot conflict and the flawless actions and movements characters do.

    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.

    Completely understand where you're coming from, but as I said before, it could be just one of those really rare cases where something like that might actually happen, odds of something shady like that happening is rare but for the sake of the few innocent who might do this, we need to be careful.

    Policroma wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    If the gold was being traded from a well-powered and lower leveled account (the bots) to a more geared up account (main) and that gold came from Conflict, then there's something up. I don't think normal players would be regularly withdrawing millions upon millions of gold from their external storage mules at regularly timed intervals.

    Well, I don't think it helps that there's a guild stone called "personal bank" right at the Stonehenge.

    Well, apparently with the ticket I've sent into Nexon, they've told me that there ARE GMs who patrol mabi in game. But for some reason they don't see the one pro and three noobs entering with very consistent timing. And I think it's more come to the point where people aren't afraid to admit that they are using mods/botting in public in more cases now because there is no GM presence in the game.

    We cannot let our fear of incriminating innocents from enforcing the rules in any circumstance. Especially in a virtual world. A permanent ban is not a death sentence. You can restore a banned account in some cases, especially in wrongful bans. It will probably be difficult, but I think the risk is well worth it if done well.

    (Note: I think Nexon may be more lenient and understanding than companies like Aeria, which will ban your account due to a "suspicious" lack of money flow after the first purchase.)

  • AceDotAceDot
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    Seishun wrote: »
    AceDot wrote: »
    Well, apparently with the ticket I've sent into Nexon, they've told me that there ARE GMs who patrol mabi in game. But for some reason they don't see the one pro and three noobs entering with very consistent timing. And I think it's more come to the point where people aren't afraid to admit that they are using mods/botting in public in more cases now because there is no GM presence in the game.

    They have never been scared of admitting it. What are you talking about? Everyone has been open about modding since g2 when lemu faucet was around. Hell, it was a thing before even that. You new kids are so funny.


    I'm glad that you have nothing positive to contribute to this argument other than the fact that you're saying that EVERYONE mods. Well, let me tell you something, not everyone does so. And even before spiraling into comments of personal attack, I know the current state of the game. I've been playing for awhile and I know that mods have been around for many years. So before you go around, generalizing, please, think before you post.

    Liyeta wrote: »
    The situation is pretty bad. I know in alexina is. When average player can get like 5-10m a month playing normally… this player is advertising things like S>gold 300m in stock for pp.
    Then a few days later… stock sold.
    A few days after that s>gold 250m for pp.

    Ha! Try to beat that. You insignificant spect of dust.



    This. Is this really needed in this game...? Like, so much gold being sold and bought, this game is becoming just a massive profit making game for those botters.


    And I agree with what Bliss says about bans, perhaps it will be better off for the sake of the whole to snuff out suspicious activity seeing as most of the activity isn't normal.
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
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    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    the other issue is the problem i see
    is gold is a currency thats traded,- and if gold in a sm goes down, prices will go down,- but the value will just change to match the prices...

    the issue people r having is how sm bots are ruining the market by bringing in to much gold.
    wont the flow of gold not change even if u lower it, becuase we will just revalue how much gold is worth>?

    the only issues i see changing is the repair rate to dura lost in sms.....
    cuase a see people carrying stuff that takes 100+ per point to repair.
    which is more "free content" un-used...-or difficult to enjoy using.

    As your mentioned, there are two problems here. Inflation, as the market is flooded with gold, and a concentration of gold in the hands of people who get it far faster than others through unscrupulous methods. Both can be fixed by making it more difficult to generate gold, and by making sure people have to use gold sinks.

    Although, no effective change can be made to accomplish this without affecting the game for everyone, it doesn't have to be done in a way that ruins the game for everyone. The trick is to make sure it affects botters/alt draggers more than legitimate players. I think the best ways to do this are to make missions/dungeons more difficult (so bots can't handle it, and alt-draggers can't solo), and to shift gold rewards from mission completion to monster drops (so alt draggers don't get any significant amount of extra gold anyway, and legitimate solo players still get something extra for soloing).

    I'm sure 'make missions more difficult' sounds like it could be bad, but when I say this, I mostly just mean that monsters should act faster so they have a chance to hit use before they get nuked. And of course, skills that allow us to nuke monsters no matter how quickly they react, with minimal risk, should be nerfed.

    Honestly, I don't know anything about bots. I have difficulty imagining bots are sophisticated enough to spam dungeons, if only because they'd have difficulty navigating the rooms. However, it seems perfectly realistic to me that a bot could destroy a short, linear mission like Conflict with FH. Just use FH->normal attack until FH ends or there are no more enemies to target->exit->get mission again->repeat, unless it gets stuck on a stonehenge or dies by the unluckiest of chances. So I support nerfing the conflict reward (even though that would mess with legitimate players), but it would be better to fix the thing which makes this possible (FH), so it wouldn't be an issue.

    or just lower the amount of gold u get after
    Eralea wrote: »
    As much as I love Conflict spam myself, I will LOL if they nerf the gold reward.

    But it's not necessary to nerf it if they just ban the cheaters. People know who the botters are. People know which player is publicly bragging about earning 30mil per day multiclienting Conflict bots. If you hang around long enough at Taill altar on a less-crowded channel, you might catch a glimpse of a pro followed by three noob alts in NPC-shop clothing, popping in and out of the mission like clockwork. We're just dancing around saying their names because it's harassment according to forum rules.

    If Nexon cared enough to moderate their game as much as they moderate their forums, they'd have been banned a long time ago.

    Because gms only log in to mail tickets, they dont actually monitor the game, and i dont blame the gms, i blame the fact their allowed to do this and hold the title of a gm, they should separate the job to ticketmasters and game masters...

    im not good at spelling so i wouldn't be good at answering tickets...(if i was a gm), but i also wouldn't hide and never appear in game except to do that either...
    its weird, out of all the jobs listed, gms seems the least thing they need.... yet no one seems to be assisting the games from "in the games"...

    the only thing i know is gms are always invisible and thats a option by the gm... and even if you dont like being seen, it does somewhat show you care.
  • PanPan
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    Deserves a bump. Everyone should know that botting is allowed on this game.
  • Dcat682Dcat682
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    While Nexon doesnt have the ability yet. Nexon should look into how Overwatch bans entire computers from accessing their game.

    Once cheaters realize they can't just make a new account or activate a VPN to play, they'd clean up their act real fast.
  • AeolysAeolys
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    Pan wrote: »
    Agreed. Botting, modding, hacking is pretty much acceptable in Mabi now. May as well go forth and say I've done all three.
    Pan wrote: »
    Deserves a bump. Everyone should know that botting is allowed on this game.

    BOOOOOOO!
    ZeoGreta
  • ZeoZeo
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    Pan wrote: »
    Deserves a bump. Everyone should know that botting is allowed on this game.

    Oh my... look like someone didn't read Nexon's Code of Conduct and you even said that modding/hacking are allowed when it was stated that it isn't in the CoC.
    Greta
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited May 20, 2017
    Zeo wrote: »
    Pan wrote: »
    Deserves a bump. Everyone should know that botting is allowed on this game.

    Oh my... look like someone didn't read Nexon's Code of Conduct and you even said that modding/hacking are allowed when it was stated that it isn't in the CoC.

    Based on his previous response, he is mocking the existence of a major rule in Massive Multipayers that is poorly enforced in Mabinogi it may as well not even be in the terms of service. Perhaps the only way an MMORPG can greatly negate bots, beside actual payments upfront to play the game, would be to actively monitor the game, especially in populous places where bots go, which would greatly kill their advertising power by limiting exposure.